Saint Seiya Seiya Discussion Thread

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Shion, Aiolos, Shaka, Shion and Dohko are stated as the strongest Saint to ever serve Athena.

Saga admits that Dohko is the most powerful Saint to the serving of Athena.

Saga: He oído que el Libra Gold Saint vive en el Pico de los Cinco Ancianos en China, y seguramente tiene ya varios siglos de edad. Él porta el orgullo de que su verdadero poder sea el más fuerte entre los Saints. Es el hombre más terrible...

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In the Taizen it indicated that Saga could not defeat Shion without the disadvantage of age and Lost Canvas is not canon with Saint Seiya.

 

[Tivanenk]

Saga offed Shion when he was what? 14 years old? Way different than 28 year old Saga. Both Ikki in ND and someone in SoG stated Saga is most powerful in his generation. And also, he has way, way better feats than Shion. 14 year old Saga offs a Pope. 14 year old Shion loses nearly every single in LC.

Saga wins in both statements and feats. And considering this series goes with contradictory statements at times, then feats should be looked at first and foremost. Saga's Galaxian Explosion is also stated to be most powerful technique amongst Saints. Saga scares Cronus. Saga easily defeats both Shura and Aiolia without his Cloth. Stomps out everything during the Hades Arc on his trek upwards. Scared Shaka as well.

Shion's feats are... lacklustre to say the least.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Saga took the place of the Kyoko. He have not trained or became stronger. He had to hide his identity from the rest of the Gold Saints.

Soul of Gold is not canon with Saint Seiya. Ikki does not know to Dohko or Shion, nor Aiolos. The word of god in ND indicates that Dohko and Shion would become the most powerful Gold Saint to serve Athena.

The Tenma Kofuko of Shaka equals to the Galaxian Explosion as indicated in the Encyclopedia Galaxian. Cronus was weakened by the seal of Zeus. Saga never deafeated to Aiolia. In Saintia Sho it mentioned that Aiolia and Saga would have a battle of the thousand days. Shura is a Gold Saint weak. Shaka defeated Saga, Camus and Shura without using its most powerful technique the Angyo.

Shion could paralyze Mu with a single thought. Mu is the best in terms of mental abilities among the Gold Saints. Shion and Dohko can paralyze to Saga easily with their mental abilities..

 

[Tivanenk]

Statements, schmatements. They contradict often in Saint Seiya and should only be used as a second source. Let's look at feats. Heck, even in Episode G, Saga is shown as being more powerful than Shion, with only Aiolos being stronger.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

It is the word of the author. In the Taizen or Volume 2, Ry├╗ Seiza Shoryu-hen indicated that Shion (a little younger) had defeated to Saga. In Epsode G it is said that Aiolos is the strongest Gold Saint. Shion and Dohko did not participate in Episode G, the only occasion in that appeared Dohko was using a projection to stop attacks of Pontus. In the Classic Manga Shion and Dohko they presented as the strongest Gold Saints. Shion stopped Mu easily with their mental abilities and paralyzes to the Saint. Mu is considered the best in terms of mental abilities.

 

[Tivanenk]

Same word of author states that Gold Saints travel at light speed when they clearly are faster than that. Statements don't matter in determining power level unless there are simply no other way to place them. And Saga definitely has the feats to back up that he's the strongest.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

The word of the author indicates that is the speed in average of a Gold Saint and also indicates and shows that exceed this speed in the history. It is not only in the Classic Manga, all official guides indicate that Shion is most stronger than Saga. Saga did not demonstrate anything to say that is the strongest. In the manga it shows e indicated that Dohko and Shion are the strongest. Shion easily paralyzed a powerful Gold Saint as Mu. In feats Shaka always was shown as the most powerful Gold Saint in the Classic Manga...

 

[Tivanenk]

By feats, Saga has actually shown to be the strongest. I don't care about Mu. Saga beat Aiolia without his Cloth, that's a better feat. Beating the hell out of Cronus is a better feat. Shaka was afraid of taking another Another Dimension from Saga and admitted that he wouldn't get out of it the next time. Saga without any of his senses and injured beat the hell out of Milo.

No guides I have seen indicate that Prime Saga is below Prime Shion at all, both were at an age disadvantage when they fought and guess who won?

Also, Mu was paralyzed partly because Shion was his master.

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

"Lost canvas is non canon"

Correction Lost canvas is not part of the original timeline it's an alternate timeline but it's canon to the franchise as a whole

Shion has no feats on saga neither does Dohko

Saga has consistently been portrayed to be superior to all excluding aiolos since he's barely in anything

Saga>>>> Shion =>Dohko period

 

[Tivanenk]

Yeah, I'd personally rank them like this:

Aiolos (EG Assassin shows what happens if Shura didn't kill him back then) >= Saga >= Shaka (Nirvana) > Dohko (above Shion simply due to LC) >= Shion

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Lost Canvas is not canon. Not insist that anyone knows who has read the manga.The canon of Saint Seiya is the Next Dimension. The that is presented in Lost Canvas is irrelevant to the Manga Classico or the Canon de Saint Seiya.

In the Canon of Saint Seiya it indicated that:

Shion = / = Dohko >>> Saga

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Saga has not proven to be the strongest in the Manga. Saga never defeated to Aiolia. Saga only attacks as a coward to Aiolia by the back, when he was fighting with Shaka. Cronus was weakened by the seal of Zeus and later Aiolia fight against a Cronus more powerful. Saga never paralyzed to Milo.

Shion had 200 years old (and was retire as Kyoko). Shion was not in condition to be a Saint and the age weakens to the Saints. Saga was in optima conditions and to the maximum.

Shion paralyzed to Mu because it is stronger. Shion paralyzed to the most powerful Gold Saint in mental abilities with ease. Paralyze a Gold Saint most weak with Saga, not is difficulty for Shion.

 

[Tivanenk]

Even discounting the Aiolia feat, he still beat up Shura without his Gold Cloth, so no. Aiolia had the help of Hyperion's Dunamis and Megas Drepanon and was still being beaten. Saga was not in optimum conditions either, he was still a child back then (a teen to be exact), not his mature, stronger self. Saga beat Milo and was about to kill him if not for the warning given by Mu.

Here's Saga stopping an enraged Aiolia's Lightning Plasma with his bare hands, while injured and with no senses: http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/4729/21-078.0/compressed/j2180.jpg

Here's Saga stomping Milo with no senses and being injured: http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/4729/21-078.0/compressed/j2185.jpg

Also, Mu is good at telekinesis, but Shaka is better at mental abilities. Saga is stated to be a God Slayer just like Seiya.

Also, Lost Canvas is canon. Just not part of the original timeline. EG Assassin confirms this (that there are parallel timelines).

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Saga it placed his Gold Cloth to defeat Shura. Aiolia never had handedly in his first fight against Cronus (much stronger than in his fight against Saga). Saga had help from Megas Depranon and the Golden Dagger in their fight against Cronus. Saga never kill to Milo, this never is said in the manga.

Saga was in good condition with full force. Saga not is most stronger with Kyoko. Saga did not return to fight or train after becoming the Kyoko of the Sanctuary (the only fight he had was against Cronus).

Aiolia previously hit to Saga with easily. Aioria previously would kill him with the Lightning Bolt only that Mu stopped him. Saga is unable of kill to Aioria with a attack more powerful than the Galaxian Explosion.

Milo does not receive any injuries from the attack and gets up unharmed. Milo gets up unharmed after the attack.

Shaka mentions that Mu is the best in mental abilities. All Gold Saints killed a god in Episode G. Seiya could be a god killer, but the strongest Bronze Saint is Ikki.

Lost Canvas is not canon. In any official means is mentioned as canon. The canon of Saint Seiya is the Next Dimension.

 

[Tivanenk]

1) Cronus was going easy on Aiolia because he needed him to break the seal on him. He had dozens of opportunities to kill Aiolia. And Aiolia spammed the Lightning Spell Protection like a mfer. No, Aiolia didn't fair well in the first fight. He only got off a suicidal Photon Burst at the end and that's it. He was ragdolled the rest of the fight.

2) Saga didn't have help from the Megas Drepanon at all. And he only pulled at the Golden Dagger at the very end when he fully beat down Cronus by then by his own power.

3) Yes, Saga did mean to kill Milo. It says right there. "And whoever will try to stop us ... will suffer the same fate as Shaka." If not for Mu's warning, Milo would've died, as admitted by himself.

4) Where's your proof that Saga didn't become stronger from when he was a teen? Aiolia sure did.

Meanwhile, you have no proof for Shion being stronger other than him being beaten by Saga when he was old and some statement about Dohko being strongest (which Saga could have easily been excluding himself) which I can counter with statements for Saga being stronger.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Cronus much more powerful without seals than before. Aioria was fighting this Cronus, resisting their attacks and gets damage with the Photom Burts.

Saga had the help of Megas Depranon for blocked the attacks of Cronus and the damage of his attack. Saga uses the Golden Dagger to defeat Cronus at the end of combat. Cronus was completely sealed in this fight.

In his battle against Cronos.

Aioria >>>> Saga.

Saga did not kill Milo. Milo did not receive any serious injuries in the attack. Milo just says that Saga used his killer technique.

Aioria did not have to hide their identity of all people in the Sanctuary. Aioria can train and realize missions for increase their strength.

The same official statement indicating that Shion that is most stronger That Saga. the Gemini Saints still alive for the rest of the Saints. Saga says Dohko is the strongest. For Saga only is mention by Milo or Ikki who do not know to Shion, Dohko, Aiolos or Shaka (that never use its maximum). In the Classic Manga, Saga was defeated by Shaka (without using its maximum attack), forced to use a cowardly attack against him.

The work of god indicates that Dohko and Shion would become the most powerful Gold Saints.

Este es el momento en el que nacen Dohko y Shion los mas poderosos y respetados Gold Saints (caballeros de oro). image.

 

[Tivanenk]

1) No, he still had his three seals... or are you referring after he broke the hourglass?

2) No, it was the Lightning Seal, and Saga used it to block only one attack that was his own, he didn't block any of Cronus' attacks with it. Cronus has three seals in this fight like against Aiolia who was ragdolled. And Cronus was pretty much praising Saga, pretty much glorifying him up to be the strongest.

3) Saga intended to kill Milo and Milo said that it would have swept him away had Mu not warned him. And again, that was him injured and without senses. I have a feeling you didn't even look at my scans.

Dohko and Shion are incredibly lacklustre that need statements to even put them near Saga who can pimpslap both of them at the same time.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Cronus had begun to break its seal as is mentioned by Pontos.

Cronus was completely sealed in this fight. Saga use the Megas Depranon to protect themselves from attacks Cronus and his attack. Cronus began to break its seal when Aiolia get to fight him. Cronus praise to Aiolia in their final battle. Pontus praises and wanted convert to Aiolia in his weapon, a god killer.

Milo only indicates that Saga used his killer technique. Milo never indicated that he had died in the attack. Milo was not injured in any way. Read the manga.

Shion and Dohko are the strongest. Instead Saga was defeated by Shaka (without using his best technique) in the Clasicc Manga.

 

[Tivanenk]

Cronus was breaking his seal using Aiolia's Lightning stikes. He came into the fight in the same condition as against Saga. And he murdered Aiolia. In fact, he had to hold back from killing Aiolia or else he wouldn't be able to break his seal. Cronus looks down on Aiolia that entire fight.

No, Saga never used the Megas Drepanon to protect against anything. He only used the Lightning Seal to survive his Galaxian Explosion and sent Cronus running like a wimp. Show scans if there was any other instance because there was none, unlike Aiolia who cowered behind it.

Yes, Milo said that he would have been swept away, which essentially means that he would have been dead, had it not been for Mu's warning. Look at the scan above, it says so clearly.

Ha, the same Shaka who got into a Thousand Day War with Aiolia while Saga defeats him without a cloth? Then is forced to use Tenbu Horin and admits that he can't take another one of Saga's Another Dimension? Only ND Shaka closes the gap between him and Gemini. Oh, and Ikki admitted that Saga is stronger than Shaka in ND. You know, the same Ikki who was murked by Saga yet stalemated Shaka?

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

Shaka is on a league of his own he is capable of fighting gold saints with nothing but a astral projection of himself

Saga >>>>>>>> Shion and Dohko from showings

These dudes are not in sagas league and will never be their strongest attacks are also bellow GE anything that isn't photon burst is bellow G.E

Their is no Gold Saint other than saga that could defeat another one without a cloth or shown at least power of that lvl suggestion he could and saga did so.

Hypes and statements are always contradicted in this series that's meaningless

The " God Slayer " Saga is always shown to be >>>>> that much above other gold saints

And lost canvas is not canon to the main timeline as I said I never said it was canon to it but an alternate timeline apart of the series either way like future trunks"s timeline in dragon ball

 

[SF_latif]

don`t feel like reading the whole thing but few things to clarify:

- shura and camus are stronger than Mu whos is above afrodite and DM combined

- Shura almost blitzes Mu ( he had to use teleportation in order to dodge an attack from shura)

- Camus casually pushes back Mu with Diamond dust which Mu fails either block it or dodge it

- you can see Mu getting injured from the attack

- the requirment to freeze a gold cloth is AZ which Camus demonstrated against shaka froozing his knee which gave an opening for saga to use his AD. camus also states (while attacking shaka) that he is going to freeze everything in his path with AZ in anime

- Shaka while in tenbohorin state is above any gold saints individually. the requirment to beat shaka while he is in TBH state is full on Athena Exclamatio (focused big bang), aka the combined might of 3 gold Knights. whiout it he is equel to knights such as saga.

- aldebaran is knowen to be strongest, only in raw strength (lifting) not in cosmo

- also star light extiction bfr`s people to diffrent planes/dimensions, it`s not an offensive attack but rather hax which he used to bfr both DM and afrodity to underworld (hades castle)

 

[SF_latif]

hopefully this would help reduce the confusion

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It's worth pointing out that in Shion's ONE appearance in Episode G, his Cosmos was compared to that of the Big Bang.

So, his one big feat is greater than Saga's best feat.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

8lso, stop the bullshit, Lancelot.

Camus demonstrates Absolute Zero in Episode G and in the Hades Arc, where he announces that he has the Absolute Zero before using the Diamond Dust. We treat Episode G as canon, which you would agree with if you researched more of the series.

Deathmask is by far the weakest by feats.

Aphrodite is a bit stronger, and Aldebaran is also among the weakest by feats.

Shura and Camus are comparable, and so are Aiolia and Mu, they are good Gold Saints.

Saga, Shaka, Aiolos, Dohko and Shion are the strongest Gold Saints.

Let's go over what we know:

ND not including, Shaka is the weakest of them all. I think we can all agree. If you don't, Lancelot, read my Blog Post on the matter. If you think Shura and Camus are such fodders and Shaka is so awesome, he could barely keep up with Shura + Camus (WHO WERE HOLDING BACK), and Saga could have offed him with a GE

Saga is said by Mu to be the strongest Gold Saint in Classic, and also by Next Dimension by Ikki. However, Saga himself says that Dohko is the strongest, and Kurumada himself states in a guidebook that Shion at his peak wouldn't lose to Saga. Episode G claims that Aiolos is the strongest.

Going by feats:

- Saga's GE is on a league of it's own, we all can agree.

- He was capable of barely standing to an incorporeal, sealed and weakened Cronus, and his GE would have killed him.

- However, Aiolos' is also likely Galaxy level with the Infinity Break, and or his Sagittarius Arrow. He has a feat of hurting sealed ************* TYPHOON, after all.

Finally, Shion does have a great feat:

 

[Shining_Trapezohedron]

Its also worth noting that DeathMask and Aphrodite is said to be the weakest saint among the Athena army.

By the way, Lancelot. Shaka is not stronger or superior than Asmita who can freeze TIME, and of course used Tenbu Hourin that could remove ALL 8th sense while Shaka can only remove all 6th sense. Agyo also required him to be in still meditation and he cant do that when he is getting attacked. The fact that Asmita is blind also helped him even more. Classic Shaka wouldn't be able to beat LoC Asmita but the ND Shaka probably can.

In fact, Shaka Barrier could BARELY hold back the three attack of Saga, Shura and Camus and the three of them still were holding back. Shaka could barely hold himself against the three of them. He even said that he would killed sooner or later.

 

[Dunamis&Ichor]

Its also worth noting that DeathMask and Aphrodite is said to be the weakest saint among the Athena army.
By the way, Lancelot. Shaka is not stronger or superior than Asmita who can freeze TIME, and of course used Tenbu Hourin that could remove ALL 8th sense while Shaka can only remove all 6th sense. Agyo also required him to be in still meditation and he cant do that when he is getting attacked. The fact that Asmita is blind also helped him even more. Classic Shaka wouldn't be able to beat LoC Asmita but the ND Shaka probably can.

In fact, Shaka Barrier could BARELY hold back the three attack of Saga, Shura and Camus and the three of them still were holding back. Shaka could barely hold himself against the three of them. He even said that he would killed sooner or later.

Shaka was able to revive in in the Underworld

 

[Victor2]

ND Shaka>Shion/dokho>= Shaka>Aiolos>=<Saga>Mu=camus/shura>aldebaran>afrodity>deathmakes imo

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

ND Shaka => Saga >>>> Shion and Dohko they don't seem that powerful at all in next dimension and they both got stomped by a judge of hell....and you think their beating the God slayer?....Stop...

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

I get that the barrier weakened them but still stomped is ridiculous even seiya could inflict a wound on a hells judge within the barrier G.E would one shot

 

[Victor2]

shion and dokho were newbies back then, just became gold saints

you`r comparing prime shion/dohko to thier newbie selfs lmao

 

[Victor2]

ND shaka>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Saga

 

[Victor2]

the judge that stomped Shion (forgot his name) was said to be above saga and other gold saints (from current generation) Shijami stomped him with just a astral projection of himself, shaka fought equelly against him

 

[Tivanenk]

ND Shaka is not that above Saga, if he is. Hell, Ikki has faced Shaka before and admitted that Cain was stronger than him. I can't imagine Nirvana Shaka to be that much stronger, especially considering that he appears in Episode G Assassin and admits that Aiolos is stronger than him. The same Aiolos who was a rival to Saga.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

ND Shaka and ND Shijima are the strongest, with Agyo and Ungyo.

 

[Akuto_Sai12]

That judge was said to be stronger than saga? When?

And whatever....

Saga and Shaka have easily shown to vastly outclass other gold saints while neither Dohko nor Shion have done so...

Although in combat I believe saga and Shaka to be neck and neck both capable of removing senses too

ND Shaka => Shimijima with an areal projection of himself like Cronus"s weak form against saga says it all

 

[Victor2]

in ND when ikki fought him

 

[Victor2]

especially considering that he appears in Episode G Assassin and admits that Aiolos is stronger than him. The same Aiolos who was a rival to Saga.

it`s uncertain if that shaka is equel to ND shaka, and aiolos is stronger than saga aswell so the point is moot

 

[Tivanenk]

especially considering that he appears in Episode G Assassin and admits that Aiolos is stronger than him. The same Aiolos who was a rival to Saga.

it`s uncertain if that shaka is equel to ND shaka, and aiolos is stronger than saga aswell so the point is moot

It's Nirvana Shaka, which is pretty much the same as ND Shaka. And Aiolos is only maybe barely stronger than Saga considering the two were rivals for the pope's position.

 

[Victor2]

by ND i`m referring to which shaka recived the Nirvana

i just like to make it simple as possible

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

ND Shaka and Shijima during Agyo >>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone else.