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Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)

I just saw Knights of the Zodiac film today in Cineplex and SOMEONE PLEASE KILL ME!!! GRAAD WENT FROM BEING MITSUMASA'S BEST FRIEND TO HIS WIFE AND IS TRYING TO KILL HER ADOPTED DAUGHTER SAORI and and AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!! IT'S WORST THAN NETFLIX VERSION!!!
 
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StekFence said:
Oh we talking about nd golds, yeah no I ain’t gonna defend them
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I mean at least Kurumada somehow learned from this previous mistake of underwhelming the Gold Saints, because in Saint Seiya: Next Dimension even though the Bronze Saints have grow much stronger after many years went by, their Bronze Cloths still cannot guarantee them any single victory against anyone of the Gold Saints they faced off against as they lost in every encounters which made very sense unlike how it went in Saint Seiya Classic due to bad writing.
 
JohnCenaNation said:
I mean at least Kurumada somehow learned from this previous mistake of underwhelming the Gold Saints, because in Saint Seiya: Next Dimension even though the Bronze Saints have grow much stronger after many years went by, their Bronze Cloths still cannot guarantee them any single victory against anyone of the Gold Saints they faced off against as they lost in every encounters which made very sense unlike how it went in Saint Seiya Classic due to bad writing.
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Isn't it explictly stated the Bronze Boys are holding back? Like, I feel like a bunch of their enemies were like "You could have killed me, but I sense you're holding back"
 
AerrowStorm1 said:
Isn't it explictly stated the Bronze Boys are holding back? Like, I feel like a bunch of their enemies were like "You could have killed me, but I sense you're holding back"
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Allow me to quote myself what I said earlier on and bold the main points.
JohnCenaNation said:
It's even more crazy when you realize that they would believe what the Pope would say over what they know about Athena, despite the fact that they are Athena's army! What gives??? The Pope is literally trying to kill Athena is both manga, why make things so complicating? Also I refused to admit that five Bronze Saints, you know the lowest of the ranks of Athena's Saints in few numbers somehow managed to beat the Gold Saints in a fight, twelve of them without dying when they are the highest of the rankings! Seiya should not have been able to survive an encounter with Aldebaran let alone his encounter with Saga after suffering multiple excruciating injuries along the way without any rest or treatment!
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JohnCenaNation said:
Also I refused to admit that five Bronze Saints, you know the lowest of the ranks of Athena's Saints in few numbers somehow managed to beat the Gold Saints in a fight, twelve of them without dying when they are the highest of the rankings! Seiya should not have been able to survive an encounter with Aldebaran let alone his encounter with Saga after suffering multiple excruciating injuries along the way without any rest or treatment!
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Mu explains that the reason they can beat the Golds is because they can burn their Cosmo higher than the Golds, and that's the ultimate deciding factor in combat in StS.
But for survivability yeah, like they lose gallons of blood each fight lmao
 
AlexZiggy said:
Mu explains that the reason they can beat the Golds is because they can burn their Cosmo higher than the Golds, and that's the ultimate deciding factor in combat in StS.
But for survivability yeah, like they lose gallons of blood each fight lmao
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Yeah, 5 Saints from the fodder Bronze rank can somehow burn their Cosmo higher than 12 Saints from the elite Gold rank who are referenced to being the 12 most powerful Saints in Athena's Army in their era, still not buying it. It would make more sense if the Bronze Saints were transforming their Bronze Cloth into Gold Cloth while burning their Cosmos, but defeating the Gold Saints while still being a Bronze Saint? That terrible writing.
 
JohnCenaNation said:
Yeah, 5 Saints from the fodder Bronze rank can somehow burn their Cosmo higher than 12 Saints from the elite Gold rank who are referenced to being the 12 most powerful Saints in Athena's Army in their era, still not buying it. It would make more sense if the Bronze Saints were transforming their Bronze Cloth into Gold Cloth while burning their Cosmos, but defeating the Gold Saints while still being a Bronze Saint? That terrible writing.
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The cloths don't matter. You EARN the cloth by being able to burn your cosmos that high. That's why the Bronze Five are destined to be the next Gold Saints.

Hell, two of the Gold Saints canonically used to be Bronze Saints: Libra Dohko used to be a Bronze Dragon Saint and got a level up to gold when he unlocked his 7th sense. So did Aries Shion, who started as a Bronze Saint and ended up becoming one of the strongest golds and the next pope. The Pope even says they could not lose to the other Golds, and they are the ones that they'd been looking for.

We know for a fact they can burn their cosmos higher than they should. LITERALLY THE LAST ARC was them burning their cosmos higher than the Silver Saints and this is further doubling down on this. The entire point of the fight is that the Gold Saints forgot that it's not just the cloth, but who has the strongest cosmos.
 
JohnCenaNation said:
Yeah, 5 Saints from the fodder Bronze rank can somehow burn their Cosmo higher than 12 Saints from the elite Gold rank who are referenced to being the 12 most powerful Saints in Athena's Army in their era, still not buying it. It would make more sense if the Bronze Saints were transforming their Bronze Cloth into Gold Cloth while burning their Cosmos, but defeating the Gold Saints while still being a Bronze Saint? That terrible writing.
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I disagree, thats like saying goku beating vegeta is bad writing just because he was a low class saiyan and vegetas a high class. The cloth ultimately isn’t what matters, its the guy under it
 
StekFence said:
I disagree, thats like saying goku beating vegeta is bad writing just because he was a low class saiyan and vegetas a high class. The cloth ultimately isn’t what matters, its the guy under it
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I never said Goku beating Vegeta wasn't a terrible writing now did I? Goku defeating Vegeta in a fight is no different from General Zod a military ops losing to a farm boy Superman in a fight.
 
AerrowStorm1 said:
The cloths don't matter. You EARN the cloth by being able to burn your cosmos that high. That's why the Bronze Five are destined to be the next Gold Saints.

Hell, two of the Gold Saints canonically used to be Bronze Saints: Libra Dohko used to be a Bronze Dragon Saint and got a level up to gold when he unlocked his 7th sense. So did Aries Shion, who started as a Bronze Saint and ended up becoming one of the strongest golds and the next pope. The Pope even says they could not lose to the other Golds, and they are the ones that they'd been looking for.

We know for a fact they can burn their cosmos higher than they should. LITERALLY THE LAST ARC was them burning their cosmos higher than the Silver Saints and this is further doubling down on this. The entire point of the fight is that the Gold Saints forgot that it's not just the cloth, but who has the strongest cosmos.
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Ah yes, 12 strongest Saints in Athena's Army suddenly forgot how to burn their Cosmos, yet 5 fodder Saints somehow manage to pull it off because of plot armor? If those 5 fodder Saints weren't main characters, they would have been immediately wasted in the first arc just like with Poseidon's Army and Hades's Army. The cloths don't matter? Something God Cloth something. Also don't forgot that Gold Cloths always comes to Bronze Saints's rescue whenever their own Bronze Cloth is useless when it could have been any other Bronze Cloths instead.
 
JohnCenaNation said:
Ah yes, 12 strongest Saints in Athena's Army suddenly forgot how to burn their Cosmos, yet 5 fodder Saints somehow manage to pull it off because of plot armor? If those 5 fodder Saints weren't main characters, they would have been immediately wasted in the first arc just like with Poseidon's Army and Hades's Army. The cloths don't matter? Something God Cloth something. Also don't forgot that Gold Cloths always comes to Bronze Saints's rescue whenever their own Bronze Cloth is useless when it could have been any other Bronze Cloths instead.
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Which one? I'm pretty sure 4 of them can be easily explained.
 
JohnCenaNation said:
Ah yes, 12 strongest Saints in Athena's Army suddenly forgot how to burn their Cosmos, yet 5 fodder Saints somehow manage to pull it off because of plot armor? If those 5 fodder Saints weren't main characters, they would have been immediately wasted in the first arc just like with Poseidon's Army and Hades's Army. The cloths don't matter? Something God Cloth something. Also don't forgot that Gold Cloths always comes to Bronze Saints's rescue whenever their own Bronze Cloth is useless when it could have been any other Bronze Cloths instead.
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They didn't forget. The Bronze Saints burned their cosmos higher than the Gold Saints did. They surpassed them. That's explicit. They EXPLICITLY state "Oh, shit, you've managed to burn your cosmos to the same level/a higher level than me."

Ikki: "Now that I've lost all six of my senses, my cosmos can flare more powerfully than your own."

Camus: "Your cosmos has surpassed even your teacher"

The Gold cloths came to the Saints rescue ONCE in the manga, when their bronze cloths had been destroyed and they were under attack. Twice if you count the Aiolius' spirit possessing Seiya when Seiya.....didn't have his cloth. Seiya even states he'd have been able to beat the silver Saints attacking him if he had his cloth. It didn't give them any amps, it's literally just protection. Hell, they EXPLICTLY STATE the only difference between cloths is that the gold cloths offer better protection. They note that several times, and even when Seiya got a cloth that was equal to a gold cloth when he burned his cosmos to the 7th sense, all it did was improve his defense and didn't upgrade his offense at all.

And it's explictly stated all Cloths do is allow them to protect themselves from their own power without dying or taking damage.

Glad you mentioned God Cloths because ONCE AGAIN, God Cloths are simply protection and can't even manifest unless the Saints burn their cosmos to the infinite. Because, as the show beats into your head. IT'S THE COSMOS that's important, not the cloth.
 
AerrowStorm1 said:
They didn't forget. The Bronze Saints burned their cosmos higher than the Gold Saints did. They surpassed them. That's explicit. They EXPLICITLY state "Oh, shit, you've managed to burn your cosmos to the same level/a higher level than me."

Ikki: "Now that I've lost all six of my senses, my cosmos can flare more powerfully than your own."

Camus: "Your cosmos has surpassed even your teacher"

The Gold cloths came to the Saints rescue ONCE in the manga, when their bronze cloths had been destroyed and they were under attack. Twice if you count the Aiolius' spirit possessing Seiya when Seiya.....didn't have his cloth. Seiya even states he'd have been able to beat the silver Saints attacking him if he had his cloth. It didn't give them any amps, it's literally just protection. Hell, they EXPLICTLY STATE the only difference between cloths is that the gold cloths offer better protection. They note that several times, and even when Seiya got a cloth that was equal to a gold cloth when he burned his cosmos to the 7th sense, all it did was improve his defense and didn't upgrade his offense at all.

And it's explictly stated all Cloths do is allow them to protect themselves from their own power without dying or taking damage.

Glad you mentioned God Cloths because ONCE AGAIN, God Cloths are simply protection and can't even manifest unless the Saints burn their cosmos to the infinite. Because, as the show beats into your head. IT'S THE COSMOS that's important, not the cloth.
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You literally answered my question, the God Cloths can manifest when the Bronze Saints burns their Cosmos, yet for some reason the Gold Cloths and the Silver Cloths didn't manifest when the Bronze Saints were burning their Cosmos, I guess the God Cloths seems more like a plot hole to me. You still haven't answered why did the Gold Cloths came to the Bronze Saints's rescue when any other type of cloths would have been preparable or when the Bronze Saints required a Gold Saint's cloth to destroy the mainstay pillars or when the Gold Saints are the ones to sacrifice themselves to tear down the wall between Underworld and Hyperdimension or Gold Saints are able to create Athena's Exclamation, etc. Bronze Saints hardly played any important roles except for just 5 of them due to being the main character therefore they have to be the ones to punch the bad guys teeth in, and nothing else.
 
JohnCenaNation said:
You literally answered my question, the God Cloths can manifest when the Bronze Saints burns their Cosmos, yet for some reason the Gold Cloths and the Silver Cloths didn't manifest when the Bronze Saints were burning their Cosmos, I guess the God Cloths seems more like a plot hole to me. You still haven't answered why did the Gold Cloths came to the Bronze Saints's rescue when any other type of cloths would have been preparable or when the Bronze Saints required a Gold Saint's cloth to destroy the mainstay pillars or when the Gold Saints are the ones to sacrifice themselves to tear down the wall between Underworld and Hyperdimension or Gold Saints are able to create Athena's Exclamation, etc. Bronze Saints hardly played any important roles except for just 5 of them due to being the main character therefore they have to be the ones to punch the bad guys teeth in, and nothing else.
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Gold Cloths and Silver cloths don't "manifest". They're physical objects that you have to go get or summon to you, whereas the God Cloths are evolutions of the Bronze cloths from being given god blood. Your complaint does not make sense, since you can't just manifest any other kind of cloth. The idea that you can "manifest" a cloth out of another by burning your cosmos is exclusive to the God Cloths.

The Gold Cloths came to the Bronze saints rescue because their BRONZE CLOTHS HAD JUST BEEN BROKEN and the Gold Cloths were the only other cloths with a direct link to them. What other cloth besides the Sagittarius, Libra and Aquarius Cloths do Seiya, Hyoga and Shiryu have a connection to when their cloths were destroyed?

The Gold CLOTHS didn't come to the Bronze Saint's rescue for the pillars, nor did they need a Cloth's power to destroy them. They needed the Libra Weapons, which are.....literally weapons that can destroy things that can resist multiple gold saints powers and only one person can summon and give out. The Gold Cloths only show up when the Bronze Cloths get blown up by Poseidon, and even then, they ended up needing the weapons to do any damage to Poseidon and save themselves.

Gold Saints sacrificed their lives to destroy the wailing wall because their cloths were the ones that had absorbed enough sunlight to do so. They literally told you that! Like, that complaint doesn't even hold water, since they explictly say the reason it has to be the Gold Saints is because they absorbed enough sunlight to do so.

All of your questions were answered in the text.
 
JohnCenaNation said:
Yeah, 5 Saints from the fodder Bronze rank can somehow burn their Cosmo higher than 12 Saints from the elite Gold rank who are referenced to being the 12 most powerful Saints in Athena's Army in their era, still not buying it. It would make more sense if the Bronze Saints were transforming their Bronze Cloth into Gold Cloth while burning their Cosmos, but defeating the Gold Saints while still being a Bronze Saint? That terrible writing.
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It has been explained since the beginning of Sts that the power of the characters is proportional to the cosmos time. Mu also retorts that the 7 senses are the very essence of the cosmos, and can be interpreted as the very essence of humans being able to distinguish between good and evil. Either way, it's pretty coherent that the B5 didn't need to transform in the face of opposing time during the Sanctuary arc.
 
So, anime and manga are currently not canon to each other for the ss verse. However, our profiles use anime design renders for manga characters. And I can tell they are manga characters because the scans are 90% manga. That’s whack. Let’s fix that. We need to get rid of the anime scaling,scans, and renders. Cos it’s whack
 
StekFence said:
So, anime and manga are currently not canon to each other for the ss verse. However, our profiles use anime design renders for manga characters. And I can tell they are manga characters because the scans are 90% manga. That’s whack. Let’s fix that. We need to get rid of the anime scaling,scans, and renders. Cos it’s whack
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The anime's profiles themselves forgot to add the whole infinite cosmos stuff.
 
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