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Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)

Veronica said:
I heard they will be upgraded to Low 1-C, but you do expect a upgrade or downgrade, since there are some holes in the 2-A rating
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I’m mostly out of the loop, but the current 2-A rating is based on poor translations.

id personally be fine with deleting the G god profiles, they’re actually awful
 
Mfw the end of Next Dimension releases and the last page says go read GA to see what happens next
30b440c4ff498b118ca860325d19e9a3.png
 
The only actual bad part about that happening would be how Zeus got handled, Okada is doing a good job with the primordials and Seiya thus far
 
SSJGeminiJJ said:
Mfw the end of Next Dimension releases and the last page says go read GA to see what happens next
30b440c4ff498b118ca860325d19e9a3.png
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TheUnshakableOne's dream would be fulfilled with that.

Although Kurumada will have to choose between his new sons, Alqui and Dollen, or his former son, Okada, as their histories are irreconcilable.

StekFence said:
Hades death caused the destruction of multiple universes, but besides that, I don’t know of any. There are statements that Cronos exists as time itself, which would make him 2-A via being the multiverse. In addition, recent chapters of GR seem to be gearing up the primordials to be 2-A
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That's for the Next Dimension version and here begin the problems with the scale of Cronos in the franchise, since we have different versions of this character, even we have the Cronos of Time Oddyssey that is far from the level of the Olympian Gods or the Cronos of Episode.G that is described as a god at the level of Athena in the Galaxian Encyclopedia.
 
Lancelot_de_Cancer said:
Cronos of Episode.G that is described as a god at the level of Athena in the Galaxian Encyclopedia.
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Tbh, this never made sense to me. The classic Ss is obviously canon to Episode G, we have author statements and flashbacks to prove it and it’s pretty obvious that Hades was >> Athena. And, the Zeus stuff heavily implies Cronos is > poseidon, hades. This is because 9th sense possessed aiolia had a Cosmo larger then Hades, and he’s weaker then the Zeus who beat Cronus.
 
StekFence said:
Tbh, this never made sense to me. The classic Ss is obiosuly canon to Episode Gl we have anuthor statements and flashbacks to prove it and it’s pretty obvious that Hades was >> Athena. And, the Zeus stuff heavily implies Cronos is > poseidon, hades. This is because 9th sense possessed aiolia had a Cosmo larger then Hades, and he’s weaker then the Zeus who beat Cronus.
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The Classic indicates that Athena is at the level of Hades, Poseidon and Zeus, even Saga mentions that Athena's weapons will put he at the level of these gods and the goddess could fight them on equal terms (even limited by her personality). It is also mentioned that Hades and Athena overcome the power of Zeus' lightning, as it is said that Zeus cannot destroy the vessel where Athena was trapped Athena, but Hades could destroy it without problems and Athena also destroys it when she gets her armor. In fact, even Athena creates 5 indestructible barriers to Hades' power. Also, remember that the 9th sense does not exist in Classic or any other spin-off. This is one of those details that will have to be analyzed, since the scale is different depending on the series.
 
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Lancelot_de_Cancer said:
The Classic indicates that Athena is at the level of Hades, Poseidon and Zeus
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While I definitely think that’s true, there’s still a hierarchy between them. Athena and Hades directly clashed 2 times. The first time, Athena blocks the sword, and is fine. But the second time, Athena was knocked around and bled, even though she blocked the attack that caused it with her shield. Her forcefields are op though, I will admit. Also, athena being above Zeus’ lightning doesn’t make any sense contextually. Otherwise Hades>Athena>Zeus lightning> Zeus, which doesn’t make much sense. And again, Possessed aiolia was stronger then Hades, so in the context of G, Cronos must be stronger then Hades and Athena as well.
 
Considering how ND is referenced in Assassin, Hyoga even showed a 13th zodiac sign ice cream at his bar, I think that they are meant to be connected in some way
 
StekFence said:
While I definitely think that’s true, there’s still a hierarchy between them. Athena and Hades directly clashed 2 times. The first time, Athena blocks the sword, and is fine. But the second time, Athena was knocked around and bled, even though she blocked the attack that caused it with her shield. Her forcefields are op though, I will admit. Also, athena being above Zeus’ lightning doesn’t make any sense contextually. Otherwise Hades>Athena>Zeus lightning> Zeus, which doesn’t make much sense. And again, Possessed aiolia was stronger then Hades, so in the context of G, Cronos must be stronger then Hades and Athena as well.
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Athena never uses the shield glow that repels all evil against Hades and never attacks with Nike, even in the first attack she blocked she could have attacked with Nike with her other hand, since she only uses one hand and her shield to stop Hades' attack. The problem is that Athena never attacked and never defended herself, her pacifist personality prevents her from attacking her opponent, but even in this situation we could see how Athena protects Seiya and the others with five indestructible barriers for Hades, even in normal conditions and without Athena having to use much of her power to protect her friends, she would have simply placed one of those barriers in front of her and Hades would have been unable to touch her, so basically Athena shows that she is at his level or even stronger. The same story promotes Athena as an invincible goddess who has never lost a single battle against her enemies (even with her pacifist personality limiting her), and literally Saga himself points out that only the weapons of this goddess are already at the level of Hades, Poseidon and Zeus. Who mentions that is Hypnos, one of the beings with more knowledge in this franchise, so based on what is described by this god the power of Athena and Hades is above the lightning of Zeus, as they can destroy that vessel that not even Zeus could destroy, they are simply on another level.

Not to mention what was shown in Next Dimension, where even a very weakened Athena as Sasha created a bond to connect her, Alone and Tenma forever, which is said to be indestructible even to the gods (basically Athena, even very weakened, created something indestructible even to the gods), and this is suppressing Hades and preventing him from being able to take full control of Alone.

So as I said this depends on each series, as Kurumada makes it clear that Athena is at the level of these gods and Kurumada himself indicates that they are above the power of Zeus' lightning, although this does not mean that they are much stronger than him, since surely Kurumada will grant Zeus some divine weapon/sacred treasure like the Trident of Poseidon, the Sword of Hades or Nike and Aegis, even in the illustration of Taizen you can see Zeus using a spear, probably it is with this weapon with which he is at the level of these or even a little above.
 
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I don’t recall it being stated Tartarus is different from the UW in any media, could be wrong though.

Hades is shown to dominate both in Classic and G from memory.

it is important to note that hell and Ely are Hades’ creation where as he’s never stated to make Tartarus.
 
Being fair, in mythology itself, Tartarus is both part of and not part of the Underworld simultaneously.

The gate to Tartarus is in the Underworld, but Tartarus itself is "as far beneath Hades as heaven is above earth." but also "a gloomy place in Hades as far distant from earth as earth is distant from the sky."
 
Lancelot_de_Cancer said:
Athena never uses the shield glow that repels all evil against Hades and never attacks with Nike, even in the first attack she blocked she could have attacked with Nike with her other hand, since she only uses one hand and her shield to stop Hades' attack. The problem is that Athena never attacked and never defended herself, her pacifist personality prevents her from attacking her opponent, but even in this situation we could see how Athena protects Seiya and the others with five indestructible barriers for Hades, even in normal conditions and without Athena having to use much of her power to protect her friends, she would have simply placed one of those barriers in front of her and Hades would have been unable to touch her, so basically Athena shows that she is at his level or even stronger.
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Or it’s Pis. As you said, if she did exactly that, she’d Easily win, but the context of the story is that they struggle to beat each other. Tons of characters have ways to insta win or at least take the advantage super quickly but they don’t use them, not just her.
Lancelot_de_Cancer said:
Athena never uses the shield glow that repels all evil against Hades and never attacks with Nike, even in the first attack she blocked she could have attacked with Nike with her other hand, since she only uses one hand and her shield to stop Hades' attack. The problem is that Athena never attacked and never defended herself, her pacifist personality prevents her from attacking her opponent, but even in this situation we could see how Athena protects Seiya and the others with five indestructible barriers for Hades, even in normal conditions and without Athena having to use much of her power to protect her friends, she would have simply placed one of those barriers in front of her and Hades would have been unable to touch her, so basically Athena shows that she is at his level or even stronger. The same story promotes Athena as an invincible goddess who has never lost a single battle against her enemies (even with her pacifist personality limiting her), and literally Saga himself points out that only the weapons of this goddess are already at the level of Hades, Poseidon and Zeus. Who mentions that is Hypnos, one of the beings with more knowledge in this franchise, so based on what is described by this god the power of Athena and Hades is above the lightning of Zeus, as they can destroy that vessel that not even Zeus could destroy, they are simply on another level.

Not to mention what was shown in Next Dimension, where even a very weakened Athena as Sasha created a bond to connect her, Alone and Tenma forever, which is said to be indestructible even to the gods (basically Athena, even very weakened, created something indestructible even to the gods), and this is suppressing Hades and preventing him from being able to take full control of Alone.

So as I said this depends on each series, as Kurumada makes it clear that Athena is at the level of these gods and Kurumada himself indicates that they are above the power of Zeus' lightning, although this does not mean that they are much stronger than him, since surely Kurumada will grant Zeus some divine weapon/sacred treasure like the Trident of Poseidon, the Sword of Hades or Nike and Aegis, even in the illustration of Taizen you can see Zeus using a spear, probably it is with this weapon with which he is at the level of these or even a little above.
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I feel like we got away from the original topic of G cronos being stronger then athena. do you agree that he is?
 
SSJGeminiJJ said:
By this world they'd be referring to Tartarus because well, they're in Tartarus. Another point that seems to indicate a difference is the fact that the Saints can enter it and fight there without having awakened the 8th sense.
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I don’t think it’s as clear as that, the Hades only created Hell and elysium, the UW is not just Hell and Elysium.

Hades created the realms we consider the human afterlife, Tartarus which is a domain under Hadeses rule is not his creation but also in the or considered an underworld.

and the titans are in Cronuses labyrinth throughout G which is a universe in Tartarus.

we see Hades entering there at the end of G and even Cronus knows Hades can see them/is aware of what happens.
 
Are you saying that Tartarus isn't part of the UW in canon either or

Edit: I get it, so he didn't create Tartarus but it's still his domain. Ok, even if that were the case, I don't see the difference it makes to the discrepancy present here
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
I really agree, it would be confusing to have both of them in the same multiverse, both of which have never met.
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Well according to native Japanese speakers that are Fans of Saint Seiya. In GR it introduced the idea of infinite number of multiverses, and Shura destroyed many of these infinite multiverses through a chain reaction affect with causality hence why he said something like "I'm the judge/bringer of causality "

Again according to native Japanese speaking fans.
 
SSJGeminiJJ said:
Are you saying that Tartarus isn't part of the UW in canon either or

Edit: I get it, so he didn't create Tartarus but it's still his domain. Ok, even if that were the case, I don't see the difference it makes to the discrepancy present here
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I don't see a discrepancy at all, the term "Underworld" only means "abode of the dead", Tartarus is as much the Underworld as Hell is, the only actual thing of note is that Hades explicitly made Hell and Ely for humans and is what's considered the "afterlife", and he's shown in all media to dominate Tartarus, given he's the ruler of the "Underworld".

You're mostly using a random scan where the context is a Titan ambiguously describing past events (which his memories aren't even present for) to create a contradiction that doesn't exist.
 
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