Saint Seiya Discussion Thread 3 - The Continuation

[TheUnshakableOne]

I just remembered, but Shaka and Leo Aiolia on the classic manga were directly stated to be the strongest Gold Saints as well

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Shaka did kinda put Ikki down for good when he Tenbu Hourin'ed him. But 7th sense be like: lolololol

Even then, Ikki can only sneak up on Shaka, then do a suicide attack that BFR'ed them both.

One that Shaka can get out of if he wanted to.

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

In the same way Ikki can't defeat Saga
The only one that put Ikki down for good was Gemini Saga

Feats >>> statements and hype

Ikki didn't use his suicide attack on Saga, and he also doesn't reach his maximum power or a miracle in this fight.

And Saga can't take down Seiya (damaged and weakened), but Shaka can take down Seiya (with better armor) with a finger.

 

[DrunkHC]

It's the saga that has no feats ... not Shaka!

Saga hype, Saga fanboys can only argue by relativizing the work and ignoring the time where events and feats occur.

Saga doesn't get powerscalle with any universal level characters.

Saga hype is at most stronger than Shaka (arc 12 temples) Arc Hades is set years after the arc 12 temples ... Saga needed an AE to beat Shaka (arc Hades / seventh sense)

Ikki doesn't know Shaka's power at its best, Ikki claims that Shijima is stronger than Shaka ...

Shaka(ND)>>>Shijima

Shaka (ND) stomp Saga, no relativistic and hype argument will change this reality.

And Taizen is 100% canon Ep G is also canon !!

 

[Leonida85]

Ikki didn't use his suicide attack on Saga, and he also doesn't reach his maximum power or a miracle in this fight.

And Saga can't take down Seiya (damaged and weakened), but Shaka can take down Seiya (with better armor) with a finger.

Ikki couldn't use his suicide attack because Saga was treating him like a punching bag.

And about Seiya, well PLOT-ARMOR

 

[Leonida85]

It's the saga that has no feats ... not Shaka!

Saga hype, Saga fanboys can only argue by relativizing the work and ignoring the time where events and feats occur.

Saga doesn't get powerscalle with any universal level characters.

Saga hype is at most stronger than Shaka (arc 12 temples) Arc Hades is set years after the arc 12 temples ... Saga needed an AE to beat Shaka (arc Hades / seventh sense)

Ikki doesn't know Shaka's power at its best, Ikki claims that Shijima is stronger than Shaka ...

Shaka(ND)>>>Shijima

Shaka (ND) stomp Saga, no relativistic hype argument will change this reality.

And Taizen is 100% canon Ep G is also canon !!

Between the Sanctuary and Hades occur few months at most a year, not decades

FEATS>>>>>>>>>STATEMENTS AND HYPE

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

Ikki couldn't use his suicide attack because Saga was treating him like a punching bag.

And about Seiya, well PLOT-ARMOR

Ikki vs. Shaka is Plot Armor and PIS, because Shaka does not use all his power with his abversary. Ikki with all his power, miracle mode and suicide attack cannot defeat Shaka.

Ikki almost starts a thousand-day battle with Saga, when they use their mental attacks. And it never reaches its full power or miracle mode during the fight.

Between the Sanctuary and Hades occur few months at most a year, not decades

Thanks to the retcon of the author in ND is 2 or 3 years later.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Does Saints even train hard after they became Saint though...

I don't remember them training, just burning Cosmos in a pinch.

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

Does Saints even train hard after they became Saint though...
I don't remember them training, just burning Cosmos in a pinch.

Jabu, Geki, Nachi and Ban returned to train after the Galaxian Wars.

 

[DrunkHC]

Legend of sanctuary although non canon, was supervised by Kurumada. Opening Scene Aioros VS Saga + Shura. Aioros only concerned with defending Athena, can dodge all attacks Saga 1VS1, Aioros dodges a Saga punch showing superiority in speed! video time 1:22

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-Ea5327k74

Saga always when it is put to face elites gold saints passes for shame!

it happens in all works https://***********.site/chapter/saint-seiya-episode-g-assassin_106/chapter-102.5

Saint seiya is not a Dragon ball-based work where characters always train, Saint Seiya looks more like Star Wars, Shaka, and his evolution of power is related to his rise to Nirvana.

 

[DrunkHC]

About the renegade's sapuris, they are less durable than the gold cloths, but Saga, Shion and the others never had a problem generating their cosmos as strong as they wearing the gold cloths. So much so that Shion and Dohko tied, so it is headcanon to claim that Saga was unable to generate the same level of power.

Aioria VS Seiya (Sagittarius Cloth) Seiya was receiving power from Aioros all sources both manga and anime claim this.(Aioria's LB wasn't at full power)

In addition Athena + Nike = Victory of the Saints

 

[DrunkHC]

I'm posting Saint seiya materials on sites like imgur so anyone can have access to the verse feats. I don't care about the opinions of idiots like Leonida85

 

[Leonida85]

I'm posting Saint seiya materials on sites like imgur so anyone can have access to the verse feats. I don't care about the opinions of idiots like Leonida85

It seems that someone burns his ass

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

... Um...

Can you guys chill down? I don't wanna see conflicts here.

 

[DrunkHC]

Next dimension/arc Hades takes place in 1990 as the manga shows, invented that only months have passed ... will debate inventing dates now do not have to waste time with liar.

Every fandom has its share of fanatical fanboys who only care about defending their favorite characters that people are liars based on headcanon. In Saint seiya the fanboys who act this way are the Saga fanatics, they are angry at Okada due to the Assassin where Saga was humiliated by Aioros (last world) and Shura as Camus became more powerful than Saga. So they invented that Ep.G is not canon and Kurumada no longer considers Okada's work, this is just crying!

 

[Leonida85]

Next dimension/arc Hades takes place in 1990 as the manga shows, invented that only months have passed ... will debate inventing dates now do not have to waste time with liar.

Every fandom has its share of fanatical fanboys who only care about defending their favorite characters that people are liars based on headcanon. In Saint seiya the fanboys who act this way are the Saga fanatics, they are angry at Okada due to the Assassin where Saga was humiliated by Aioros (last world) and Shura as Camus became more powerful than Saga. So they invented that Ep.G is not canon and Kurumada no longer considers Okada's work, this is just crying!

My dear, I have no problem recognizing that Aiolos in the G.A. is a badass stronger than Saga or even Aiolia in G proves to be superior to the saint of Gemini. But do not tell me that in the classic manga Shaka is stronger than Saga, because it is not, Saga in the clash with Seiya and Ikki has proved to be the strongest and the most enduring gold saint of all.

One last thing my favorite character is Ikki

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

But do not tell me that in the classic manga Shaka is stronger than Saga, because it is not, Saga in the clash with Seiya and Ikki has proved to be the strongest and the most enduring gold saint of all.

One last thing my favorite character is Ikki

The classic manga shows that Shaka is stronger than Saga.

Saga only fights a Seiya very weakened by the battles with the Gold Saints (Aiolia fights with a Seiya with less damage). Saga can't take down Seiya (very hurt) and Shaka can take down Seiya (with better armor, better control of the cosmos and kamikaze mode) with one finger.

Ikki without its maximum cosmos and miracle mode.

Fighting with a Bronze Saints that is weakened, hurt, without maximum cosmos and miracle mode is not impressive, even Charon almost kills Seiya in his second fight or Pharaoh easily defeats Seiya and Shun.

Shaka defeats Saga, Camus and Shura in a fight, and Saga needs the Athena Exclamation to surpass the cosmos of Shaka and destroy the Tenbu Horin. Shaka reaches and dominates the Eighth Sense, Saga never reaches the Eighth Sense.

 

[Leonida85]

Everyone knows that the more beaten up Seiya is, the stronger he becomes, after all he is the protagonist, and he is the champion of the plot armor. Saga, on the other hand, has simultaneously dealt with a highly motivated Ikki, which is the most important thing to expand the cosmos, with a newly regenerated cloth, and tanked a Suisei Ken powered by a miracle, all bronzes and also Athena ( I know for you she didn't participate, but I think so.)

The fight in the Sala's garden was all a bluff to fool Hades, otherwise Camus instead of the DD would use the Aurora Execution, and Saga his GE instead of the Another Dimension ....

FEATS>>>>>>>STATEMENTS AND HYPE

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

... Should we just make a Saga VS Shaka Thread?

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

Everyone knows that the more beaten up Seiya is, the stronger he becomes, after all he is the protagonist, and he is the champion of the plot armor.
Saga, on the other hand, has simultaneously dealt with a highly motivated Ikki, which is the most important thing to expand the cosmos, with a newly regenerated cloth, and tanked a Suisei Ken powered by a miracle, all bronzes and also Athena ( I know for you she didn't participate, but I think so.)

The fight in the Sala's garden was all a bluff to fool Hades, otherwise Camus instead of the DD would use the Aurora Execution, and Saga his GE instead of the Another Dimension ....

A very damaged Saint loses power, a good example Suikyo who after his battles with the Gold Saints can not defeat Dohko (rookie). Even Seiya cannot move the door in the Kyoko Temple because of how weakened it is.

Ikki does not have his maximum power and never reaches a miracle in the battle against Saga. A Bronze Saint without energy and damage, some Bronze Saints almost dead, and weak Bronze Saints like Jabu, Nachi, Geki and Ban, probably with the combined strength of the Bronze Saints only reached the power of Seiya with Seventh Sense. The cosmos of the Bronze Saints only gives energy to Seiya to get up and reach the Seventh Sense (Seiya is so weak that she can't reach the Seventh Sense with her own energy)..

Athena does not participate in the attack, the goddess silhouette does not appear in the cosmos. Athena is a goddess, a fraction of her power would disintegrate a Gold Saint like Saga, who was manipulated by a mediocre goddess like Keres.

The fight is real, even Camus, Shura and Saga explain that they can't defeat Shaka with the Tenbu Horin.

The Diamond Dust has a faster execution than the Aurora Execution (the techniques of Camus can't damage a Gold Saint). Is the fastest technique of Camus to attack a Gold Saint with the speed and teleportation of Shaka.

Shaka doesn't use Angyo, Tenma Kofuku + Tenbu Horin and Rikudo Rinne (an instant death attack that could easily kill Saga, Camus and Shura).

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

A damaged Saint would be weaker...

But a damaged Saint who burns his Cosmo like flowing adrenaline on the other hand, would do an extreme burst of power

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

... Should we just make a Saga VS Shaka Thread?

A Gold Saint High 3-A or Low 2-C against a Gold Saint 3-B is not a good idea.

 

[Leonida85]

A damaged Saint would be weaker...

But a damaged Saint who burns his Cosmo like flowing adrenaline on the other hand, would do an extreme burst of power

Practically this. Almost all Seiya fights are like this, it's his modus operandi.

An example: Thanatos beat up Seiya, Seiya burns the cosmos, BAM, God cloth and seiya one shots Thanatos. With Hades? Hades curbstomps the saints, seiya burns the cosmos, BAM, seiya hurts Hades ...

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

A damaged Saint would be weaker...

But a damaged Saint who burns his Cosmo like flowing adrenaline on the other hand, would do an extreme burst of power

Suikyo shows something different in Next Dimension. A very wounded Saint cannot reach his maximum strength.

Practically this.
Almost all Seiya fights are like this, it's his modus operandi.

An example: Thanatos beat up Seiya, Seiya burns the cosmos, BAM, God cloth and seiya one shots Thanatos.
With Hades? Hades curbstomps the saints, seiya burns the cosmos, BAM, seiya hurts Hades ...

No, Seiya was never hurt as in the battle at the Sanctuary, he even had a month in a coma after these battles. Seiya even says that he has no energy to fight, that's why the other Bronze Saints help him.

Seiya without serious damage >>>>>>>> Seiya after some Great Horn of Aldebaran, Lightning Plasma of Aiolia, Scarlet Needle of Milo, Tenma Kofuku of Shaka, Royal Demon Rose of Aphro.

Seiya without serious damage, Seventh Sense and miracle mode can not defeat Aiolia. Seiya (after the fight with Aioria) was shot down and almost killed by Shaka.

Thanatos limits their strength not to kill the Bronze Saints.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

A damaged Saint would be weaker...

But a damaged Saint who burns his Cosmo like flowing adrenaline on the other hand, would do an extreme burst of power

Practically this. Almost all Seiya fights are like this, it's his modus operandi.

An example: Thanatos beat up Seiya, Seiya burns the cosmos, BAM, God cloth and seiya one shots Thanatos. With Hades? Hades curbstomps the saints, seiya burns the cosmos, BAM, seiya hurts Hades ...

Well, the Thanatos fight isn't just burning Cosmo, it's also Seiya getting an upgrade.

Hades one is one momentary burst, I'm not sure how it will go had Hades's sword not get stuck in Seiya's chest.

But most of the time, if one's beaten to a pulp, they're more likely to burn their Cosmo the the limit. Probably because adrenaline.

Seems Suikyo didn't take note of that. Or just didn't have the plot armor.

 

[Leonida85]

Seiya without the five senses gets up does a miracle and shoots a Suisei Ken (also boosted by Athena, the fact that he doesn't see his silhouette doesn't mean anything, in fact every time the goddess helped the saints you don't see her silhouette)

The thing you say about Camus, the is faster DD of the AE, it's you making it up, it is not said anywhere. And then you do not answer on the GE of Saga, which moreover according to your reasoning should be slower than the AD, instead we have seen (against Milo and Seiya) to the occurrence the saints immediately attack with their techniques.

And one last thing why you edit your messages continuously? In this way, I cannot respond appropriately

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

The 3-1 Hades Arc fight is clearly a PIS, like Leonida said. The stupidity being they don't bring their Ulti out.

Seiya SuiseiKenning Saga also sees his attack overpower Galaxian Explosion, before hitting Saga in the face. And it took him a few moments to get up.

Shaka meanwhile, has his eyes closed when beating Seiya up, and Seiya isn't even burning his Cosmo to the max there, so it shouldn't be a serious stuff for either side.

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

Seiya without the five senses gets up does a miracle and shoots a Suisei Ken (also boosted by Athena, the fact that he doesn't see his silhouette doesn't mean anything, in fact every time the goddess helped the saints you don't see her silhouette)
The thing you say about Camus, the is faster DD of the AE, it's you making it up, it is not said anywhere. And then you do not answer on the GE of Saga, which moreover according to your reasoning should be slower than the AD, instead we have seen (against Milo and Seiya) to the occurrence the saints immediately attack with their techniques.

And one last thing why you edit your messages continuously? In this way, I cannot respond appropriately

No, all Saints after serious damage cannot reach their maximum cosmos. Seiya has no energy for the last attack, so the Bronze Saints give him part of his energy to get up and attack.

Seiya without serious damage, Seventh Sense and miracle mode can not defeat Aiolia.

Seiya (after the fight with Aioria) was shot down and almost killed by Shaka.

Athena never helps Seiya, even her silhouette does not appear, and the only silhouettes are from the cosmos of the Bronze Saints. A fraction of the Athena cosmos is enough to disintegrate a Gold Saint like Saga, who was manipulated by a mediocre goddess like Keres.

The Diamond Dust does not require a posture to be used in contrast to Aurora Execution, and is the only technique that Camus can use in the air. The Galaxian Explosion can't defeat a Gold Saint like Shaka. And Shaka didn't use all her techniques against the abversaries.

 

[Leonida85]

When ever the silhouette of Athena appears?

Even when she helped Shiryu with his soul, the silhouette does not appear. Or with Ikki in Poseidon, not even on that occasion

On Suisei Ken: Saori appears, says a few words of encouragement, for me this is sufficient to believe that she participated.

On the fact of the "power" of the goddess, it is simply a plot hole of KuruMADa, in the same way as when Shaina tanked the golden arrow and survives the blows of Poseidon.

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

When she helps Shiryu her soul appears in the Yomotsu. The goddess's soul does not appear with Seiya at that time.

Ikki in Poseidon only follows Athena's cosmos to return, she does not grant Ikki cosmos at that time.

When Seiya uses Suisei ken, only the silhouette of the Bronze Saints cosmos appears. When they help Seiya in the fight against Ikki, the silhouette does not appear.

Kurumada draws the silhouette of the cosmos of the Bronze Saints to indicate that his cosmos helps Seiya at that time and never draws the silhouette of Athena's cosmos.

 

[Leonida85]

No, all Saints after serious damage cannot reach their maximum cosmos. Seiya has no energy for the last attack, so the Bronze Saints give him part of his energy to get up and attack.

Seiya without serious damage, Seventh Sense and miracle mode can not defeat Aiolia.

Seiya (after the fight with Aioria) was shot down and almost killed by Shaka.

Athena never helps Seiya, even her silhouette does not appear, and the only silhouettes are from the cosmos of the Bronze Saints. A fraction of the Athena cosmos is enough to disintegrate a Gold Saint like Saga, who was manipulated by a mediocre goddess like Keres.

The Diamond Dust does not require a posture to be used in contrast to Aurora Execution, and is the only technique that Camus can use in the air. The Galaxian Explosion can't defeat a Gold Saint like Shaka. And Shaka didn't use all her techniques against the abversaries.


Shaka didn't used the Tenma Kofuku because he already used it in the presence of the 3 traitors(an attack never works twice) , the Rikudo probably is useless against a specters Hades just brings them back; no Agyo? Plot hole, KuruMADa didn't have it yet

Where is it stated that Camus can only use the DD when in mid air? He is a Saint he can fly and moves at light speed...

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

Shaka didn't used the Tenma Kofuku because he already used it in the presence of the 3 traitors(an attack never works twice) , the Rikudo probably is useless against a specters Hades just brings them back; no Agyo? Plot hole, KuruMADa didn't have it yet

Where is it stated that Camus can only use the DD when in mid air? He is a Saint he can fly and moves at light speed...

When Shaka uses Tenma Kofuku + Tenbu Horin, an opponent caught in Tenbu Horin cannot attack or defend himself and using Tenma Kofuku at that time could even defeat an opponent like Odysseus. The Surplices do not protect from an immediate death attack and do not protect from an attack forces the opponent to reincarnate. And, Angyo is an official attack and one of the strongest attacks of Virgo.

Camus cannot levitate, he never showed levitation in any manga.

 

[Leonida85]

When Shaka uses Tenma Kofuku + Tenbu Horin, an opponent caught in Tenbu Horin cannot attack or defend himself and using Tenma Kofuku at that time could even defeat an opponent like Odysseus. The Surplices do not protect from an immediate death attack and do not protect from an attack forces the opponent to reincarnate.

Camus cannot levitate, he never showed levitation in any manga.

When Shaka uses those two attacks simultaneously? In the Tenbu Horin someone can't attack or defend, but it seems he can moves around, like the 3 with AE or Ikki in the suicide attack... I repeat myself that fight was a bluff.

I said Hades, not the surplices, the God governs on all the underworld and the souls, and probably he can resurrect whoever he wants alive

Camus can't levitate? And than? He can fly and moves at light speed like all the gold saints

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

Flight is quite common would say any silver level saint is able to fly now levitation only a few saints have shown.

In saint seiya the difference between psychic powers (sixth sense) powers cosmos (seventh sense)
Saga for example had the same level of illusory ability as Ikki (sixth sense) but Saga had a much higher level of cosmos (Seventh Sense) than Ikki.

Shion and Dohko have the same level of cosmos (seventh sense) but Shion has mental abilities (sixth sense) far superior to Dohko.

Saint seiya levitation is clearly related to psychic powers, while the flying ability shown by various characters is related to the cosmos.

Flying is easy for Saints of the level of a Silver.

Levitation is a skill that only some Saints with great psychic powers (Deahtmask, Shaka, Mu, etc) or Saints that have wings in their armor.

 

[Leonida85]

Shijima uses the two attacks against Odysseus and Shaka was going to combine Rikudo Rinne and Tenbu Horin to destroy Ikki's body and soul. The adversaries who were trapped in the Tenbu Horin cannot attack, flee or defend themselves. Ikki can attack because it exceeds Shaka's cosmos, and Saga, Camus and Shura can only use Athena Exclamation because it exceeds Shaka's cosmos.

Hades doesn't help the Specters, he doesn't help Giganto and the other Specters after Shaka kills them.

Shaka used the Rikudo against Ikki and that was useless he just came back, same with the Tenbu... Shijima is not Shaka, and we are talking about the classic manga and not the Next Dimension, if not it will be a mess because Kurumada can't write in a linear and logical way.

The fight was a bluff, It was Shaka who suggested them to use the AE, they had to convince Hades so, at that point, they had to use the forbidden technique

The three could perfectly continue to fight since they still had techniques to use the Aurora and the GE

 

[Crateris_Aeson]

Shaka used the Rikudo against Ikki and that was useless he just came back, same with the Tenbu... Shijima is not Shaka, and we are talking about the classic manga and not the Next Dimension, if not it will be a mess because Kurumada can't write in a linear and logical way.

The fight was a bluff, It was Shaka who suggested them to use the AE, they had to convince Hades so, at that point, they had to use the forbidden technique

The three could perfectly continue to fight since they still had techniques to use the Aurora and the GE

The Next Dimension is the main canon and the sequel to the original manga. Shijima is a weaker version of Shaka. The Rikudo Rinne killed Ikki but he can return because he is immortal and only an attack destroys his body and soul can defeat him, that's why Shaka needs to use a combination of Tenbu Horin and Rikudo Rinne to defeat him.

No, Shaka suggests the use of AE so that they had a chance against him, because they can't beat him, even Saga, Camus and Shura explain that they can't win.

Camus cannot seriously damage a Gold Saint with any of his techniques because he never reached absolute zero and we don't know the damage that the Galaxian Explosion can cause to Shaka (because he resists Ikki's suicide attack). The only one who has techniques that can defeat his abversaries is Shaka, who doesn't use these techniques in that fight.

 

[Leonida85]

The Next Dimension is the main canon and the sequel to the original manga. Shijima is a weaker version of Shaka. The Rikudo Rinne killed Ikki but he can return because he is immortal and only an attack destroys his body and soul can defeat him, that's why Shaka needs to use a combination of Tenbu Horin and Tenma Kofuku to defeat him.

No, Shaka suggests the use of AE so that they had a chance against him.

I know, but the fact remains that the Next is a mess, Kurumada added things that were not in the classic manga like Agyo/Ugyo or the Omerta

After suggesting the AE, the three have no other choice, because that is the quickest solution and at the same time they show Hades that they are no longer loyal to the goddess. That's a total acting to fool Hades

And what about levitation with Aurora? Camus can fly and nowhere is said he can't launch his attack in mid-air.

And then the gold saints move at light speed, so for them to fly and levitate are completely superficial and secondary skills

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Just want to say after talking to some staff. something that was published in later 1980's and then finishes a couple years after launch, but doesn't get touched again or get a new series until the early 2000's (That is canon). Then that means the new information takes precendence over the older information due to a time gap that is also causing discrpencies in scaling. It simply means that the classic series was largely retconned.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

i'll make a new Saint Seiya discussion thread

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

The new discussion thread is here https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3722250