Saint Seiya 8th Sense 5D HDE Removal

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Because it's important context that shows it's clearly not a literal physical spatial dimension or a transcendent reality, considering how it's perceived, something it had zero evidence for in the first place, and is pedantically, all in their heads. There's no need for it to counter something that there's no actual evidence for in the first place, all it does is give further context.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Typing this before I read the OP: I do not guarantee my agreement in commenting. I apologize if this complicates things. I will also apologize the manner with which I'm going to organize my response- I'm going to copy segments of text and reference them until I post another bit. I may not copy all text for this, just what is convenient.

So here, the fact that Illias says this as something that applies to all souls (not something exclusive to those who awaken 8th sense) makes it abundantly evident that he's not referring to some literal change in dimensionality, but simply referring to the description in the series of souls ascending to the Underworld (another dimension) after death.

There are countless scenes in the series that clearly show us that merely becoming a disembodied soul out of a dead body does that remotely equate to them becoming higher dimensional objects, as they can still be contained within, finite, 3-D spaces and like most interpretations of souls in fiction, are relative in size to their real 3-D bodies. I feel as though this shouldn't even need citations since it's so common knowledge to anyone who knows the slightest about the series, but regardless I'll leave a few notable scenes that showcase this below.

While I agree that it is more likely, based on the translation, that it is using "dimension" more frivolously here than one would expect, I don't agree that a higher-D object appearing in lower-D space would somehow disqualify it from being higher-D. I generally find this evaluation right, though.

To quote the wiki standards page again:

Aye, I think that the statement is too vague. Agreed.

Cool but, this has nothing to do with higher dimensions either. And it says he can perceive multiple dimensions, not multiverse, but it doesn't matter either way.

To be fair, my assessment is that "dimensions" here is used in terms of "alt dimensions"- other planes of existence, such as the underworld. You are right in that it is scantly evidence for 5-D.

This is so grossly out of context it's hard to think where to even begin.

Asmita here is saying that the higher plane Illias was in felt as if it were beyond some thin impenetrable membrane, but now he'd finally reached it. The statement by nature is a metaphorical comparison and not literal, and even if it were literal, he never calls it some higher dimensional membrane or anything like that in the scans, nor does he make any note of the universe. And also, from the above, we already know Illias spiritual existence was in the regular world, and this in reference to his mind/consciousness.

The actual context of this realm that Illias's mind reached and his state of being and how they get there makes it clear this interpretation makes absolutely no sense of it being some 5-D higher spatial dimension or dimensional transcendence to reach it.

To preface this part, I'll note the Wiki standards regarding "higher dimension/plane" statements.

This... is a significantly more complicated issue. Your interpretation isn't guaranteed right or wrong, I can see how this would be taken in the direction of supporting higher-D existence. Overall I would describe myself on neutral on rejecting this point. This may or may not be legitimate.

Overall I think the evidence is shaky enough to remove the rating.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

@Mr._Bambu Thank you very much for taking the time here. Yeah, as you've noticed, the only bit of evidence there is extremely vague and hollow with nothing else going for it, and what context we do have isn't really any direct evidence for something 5-D.

Overall I think the evidence is shaky enough to remove the rating.

May I take this as an agreement then?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

You may.

 

[Hasty12345]

Because it's important context that shows it's clearly not a literal physical spatial dimension or a transcendent reality, considering how it's perceived, something it had zero evidence for in the first place, and is pedantically, all in their heads. There's no need for it to counter something that there's no actual evidence for in the first place, all it does is give further context.

It doesn’t show that.

and acting like there’s no evidence for the “for” side is pretty disingenuous.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

It doesn’t show that.

and acting like there’s no evidence for the “for” side is pretty disingenuous.

How so? I've acknowledged all of it and covered it in the OP thoroughly. Every argument used point by point (directly quoted) was addressed by the OP. Perhaps I should've worded that as, the evidence cited being insufficient.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Typing this before I read the OP: I do not guarantee my agreement in commenting. I apologize if this complicates things. I will also apologize the manner with which I'm going to organize my response- I'm going to copy segments of text and reference them until I post another bit. I may not copy all text for this, just what is convenient.


While I agree that it is more likely, based on the translation, that it is using "dimension" more frivolously here than one would expect, I don't agree that a higher-D object appearing in lower-D space would somehow disqualify it from being higher-D. I generally find this evaluation right, though.


Aye, I think that the statement is too vague. Agreed.


To be fair, my assessment is that "dimensions" here is used in terms of "alt dimensions"- other planes of existence, such as the underworld. You are right in that it is scantly evidence for 5-D.


This... is a significantly more complicated issue. Your interpretation isn't guaranteed right or wrong, I can see how this would be taken in the direction of supporting higher-D existence. Overall I would describe myself on neutral on rejecting this point. This may or may not be legitimate.

Overall I think the evidence is shaky enough to remove the rating.

Considering this is controversial and tier 1 related, and the verse is popular on the wiki. This wound require more staff input, right?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

You may.

We've got you and the admin little bro, I think that's enough to get through or do we need more?

If you can score another one, that would be a good one

 

[Hasty12345]

How so? I've acknowledged all of it and covered it in the OP thoroughly. Every argument used point by point (directly quoted) was addressed by the OP. Perhaps I should've worded that as, the evidence cited being insufficient.

It’s fairly clear you’re intentionally using very strong emotive language to make your position look far stronger than it is.

“having 0 evidence” is not the same, nor indicative you believe there’s “insufficient evidence”.

this is far more clearly an interpretation based topic.

We've got you and the admin little bro, I think that's enough to get through or do we need more?

there’s a debunk post being worked on, we should wait for that before rushing. People have lives and aren’t always able to dedicate mass amounts of time to a hobby such as arguing with strangers on the internet about people wearing tights and armour

 

[Mr. Bambu]

there’s a debunk post being worked on, we should wait for that before rushing. People have lives and aren’t always able to dedicate mass amounts of time to a hobby such as arguing with strangers on the internet about people wearing tights and armour

While phrased less than charitably, I think this is reasonable to a point. If a legitimate counter argument is being cooked up somewhere, it's best to let that finish so as to avoid further thread creation. Let's wait for 'em.

Considering this is controversial and tier 1 related, and the verse is popular on the wiki. This wound require more staff input, right?

I wasn't aware the verse was popular on the wiki. I would say generally two admin evaluations are acceptable for this particular verse, although a rebuttal would be fine to wait for.

 

[Hasty12345]

While phrased less than charitably, I think this is reasonable to a point. If a legitimate counter argument is being cooked up somewhere, it's best to let that finish so as to avoid further thread creation. Let's wait for 'em.


I wasn't aware the verse was popular on the wiki. I would say generally two admin evaluations are acceptable for this particular verse, although a rebuttal would be fine to wait for.

Exactly, it would be very frustrating for everyone involved if a thread is created in the next 48 hours to debunk this one

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

It’s fairly clear you’re intentionally using very strong emotive language to make your position look far stronger than it is.

“having 0 evidence” is not the same, nor indicative you believe there’s “insufficient evidence”.

this is far more clearly an interpretation based topic.

Well, as it stands I'm the one who's actually made any relevant arguments here. And I have no idea what you're trying to say with that, I'm being quite straightforward.

Well, that's clearly what I meant. I'm not sure how you took it any other way when like, the entire OP is dedicated to acknowledging points used as evidence here.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

I'm perfectly fine with waiting a little longer for any further grievances.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I wasn't aware the verse was popular on the wiki. I would say generally two admin evaluations are acceptable for this particular verse, although a rebuttal would be fine to wait for.

It's not really popular, but it has one or 10 people who like Saint Seiya, but it's about Tier 1 stuff that's tricky, so we need more than one team member (although the time of 48 hours passed, we should wait a little longer )

 

[Hasty12345]

It’s actually not “clearly what you meant”, but I’m done derailing.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Yeah it kinda is, when there's an entire post above acknowledging that there were tangible arguments made for the opposition and taking the time to go through them accordingly.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I suppose this makes sense.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

I disagree. I don't see how any of this goes against the evidence put forth in the last thread. Asmita making a comparison to higher dimensionality does not preclude him from speaking about the core characteristics of a place. It's clear that 8th sense users have a transcendental viewpoint which then allows them the facets of; Seeing the multiverse, gaining knowledge, and accessing an inaccessible and transcendental state all stand.

I'm not quite too sure why "thoughts" ascending is much a refutation given that we are inherently talking about the soul here.

Feel free to let me know if I got something wrong on either side.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

I disagree. I don't see how any of this goes against the evidence put forth in the last thread. Asmita making a comparison to higher dimensionality does not preclude him from speaking about the core characteristics of a place. It's clear that 8th sense users have a transcendental viewpoint which then allows them the facets of; Seeing the multiverse, gaining knowledge, and accessing an inaccessible and transcendental state all stand.

I'm not quite too sure why "thoughts" ascending is much a refutation given that we are inherently talking about the soul here.

Feel free to let me know if I got something wrong on either side.

Well, because the "higher plane" in question has nothing to do dimensional transcendence here. As I pointed out in the OP, the "higher plane" doesn't even actually require the 8th sense to get to in the first place and is completely unrelated to it, which is a key detail left out in the last thread. Asmita and Sisyphos get to it before awakening it (the whole point of them raising their consciousness to contact Illias there is to learn more about it).

Also the gaining knowledge of the world part is fine, but it's not evidence for qualitative superiority or a higher spatial dimension (HDE). Well, it's not just the facet of their thoughts ascending, I also detail in the OP how the higher plane actually doesn't have to do with the soul or their souls actually going there, as it's a place created by and characterized as their own thoughts that they perceive by looking deeper within themselves and simply raising their consciousness. Their literal souls nor bodies don't actually go there, Ilias' soul is even confirmed to be existing integrated into the normal world.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

As I pointed out in the OP, the "higher plane" doesn't even actually require the 8th sense to get to in the first place and is completely unrelated to it, which is a key detail left out in the last thread. Asmita and Sisyphos get to it before awakening it (the whole point of them raising their consciousness to contact Illias there is to learn more about it).

This confuses me a bit. 8th sense users being able to go there voluntarily doesn't preclude other forms of life getting there. Randolph Carter sure isn't 1-A as a human but goes to many higher dimensional realms outside of physical reality in his escapades as an example.

You also mention them being there as anti-evidence but then stated "the whole point of them raising their consciousness to contact Illias there was to learn more about it". So it sounds like they weren't actually able to get there? I would need more context but this seems more or less like someone getting into heaven after death naturally vs a human or disembodied spirit which can freely move between heaven (in this case higher dimensional) and other planes. In this case both people actually needing enlightenment in order to get to such stage of knowledge.

Also the gaining knowledge of the world part is fine, but it's not evidence for qualitative superiority or a higher spatial dimension (HDE).

It can be within context. For instance, in Persona, there is an Akashic record that houses all events and memories of existence. This fundamental nature allows one to see across all of time and space, gain knowledge one wouldn't have, etc. so alone it's not proof but it is sure as heck good supporting evidence.

Well, it's not just the facet of their thoughts ascending, I also detail in the OP how the higher plane actually doesn't have to do with the soul or their souls actually going there, as it's a place created by and characterized as their own thoughts that they perceive by looking deeper within themselves and simply raising their consciousness.

The scans make it pretty clear that it is indeed their cognition that is ascending. I think a very important context being left out is the blatant inspiration from Buddhism here. Ascending to deeper parts of reality via raising one's consciousness would indeed lend itself to this idea especially if the core of reality is mental in nature, which is what it seeming to be proposed from the scans I left.

Their literal souls nor bodies don't actually go there, Ilias' soul is even confirmed to be existing integrated into the normal world.

Can you please link those scans? I'm not sure why cognitions would not be a part of the soul, nor does the whole asmita stuff really make sense.

I also have a problem with your refutation regarding (in my opinion) one of the more important scans.

This is so grossly out of context it's hard to think where to even begin.

Asmita here is saying that the higher plane Illias was in felt as if it were beyond some thin impenetrable membrane, but now he'd finally reached it. The statement by nature is a metaphorical comparison and not literal, and even if it were literal, he never calls it some higher dimensional membrane or anything like that in the scans, nor does he make any note of the universe. And also, from the above, we already know Illias spiritual existence was in the regular world, and this in reference to his mind/consciousness.

The actual context of this realm that Illias's mind reached and his state of being and how they get there makes it clear this interpretation makes absolutely no sense of it being some 5-D higher spatial dimension or dimensional transcendence to reach it.

This is false and belies my earlier point of lacking context in the buddhist themes.

Here in the scan, as this "metaphor" is being discussed, you can clearly see Shaka holding up the Diamond Realm Mandala of Vairocana.

This is important because it is touching on the themes being discussed. In buddhism, the womb realm is the realm of physicality and manifestation. It is where ever changing things happen and nothing is ever permanent. The other realm is the diamond realm, and it is one of pure transcendence where all the static archetypes that exist a priori to and craft the lower realities. The diety Vairocana sits there and the eternal archetypes are simply thoughts that arise from his meditation in the void. Vairocana also being synonymous with the universe (in totality, not the physical 3-D verse) itself.

With that context in mind I think it's pretty clear that the "higher dimensional stuff" the stuff about "thoughts being transmitted to this realm" and the whole you can't go to this realm without the proper cognition" all point to this interpretation, which would indeed grant HDE.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

if you thought 5D was your worse fear. t Wait until my cosmology blog

Currently have multiple nonbias native Japanese and expert Japanese speakers looking over the scans to ensure 100% accuracy including context because speaking from experience, Br and Spanish translation should 100% be disregarded. Especially, third eye. I noticed they translate it from French and then French team always gets it wrong.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

This confuses me a bit. 8th sense users being able to go there voluntarily doesn't preclude other forms of life getting there. Randolph Carter sure isn't 1-A as a human but goes to many higher dimensional realms outside of physical reality in his escapades as an example.

What I'm saying is that it doesn't actually take the 8th sense to get there, and it has nothing to do with the 8th sense in general. It's just a higher realm of thought used as a battleground and a way for them to contact Illias.

You also mention them being there as anti-evidence but then stated "the whole point of them raising their consciousness to contact Illias there was to learn more about it". So it sounds like they weren't actually able to get there? I would need more context but this seems more or less like someone getting into heaven after death naturally vs a human or disembodied spirit which can freely move between heaven (in this case higher dimensional) and other planes. In this case both people actually needing enlightenment in order to get to such stage of knowledge.

They did get there (or more pedantically, manage to perceive it within their collective consciousness), Illias outright commends them for being able to do so.

1st page:
Japanese:
Asmita:それ故貴方の意識の位まで己を高めれば ならなかった
Asmita: Therefore, I had to raise myself to your level of consciousness.
Spanish:
Asmita: Finalmente logre alcanzar su cosmos.. Esta espacio es un campo de batalla para tus pensamientos. Por eso tenia que ascender al nivel de su conciencia.
Asmita: I finally managed to reach his cosmos. This space is a battlefield for thoughts. As so, you have to ascend to the level of his consciousness.

2nd page:
Japanese:
Illias: 二人共よくぞこの次元へ至るまでたか小宇宙を高めたな
Illias: You two have done a great job raising your cosmo to come to this dimension.

It can be within context. For instance, in Persona, there is an Akashic record that houses all events and memories of existence. This fundamental nature allows one to see across all of time and space, gain knowledge one wouldn't have, etc. so alone it's not proof but it is sure as heck good supporting evidence.

The scans make it pretty clear that it is indeed their cognition that is ascending. I think a very important context being left out is the blatant inspiration from Buddhism here. Ascending to deeper parts of reality via raising one's consciousness would indeed lend itself to this idea especially if the core of reality is mental in nature, which is what it seeming to be proposed from the scans I left.

As I said, I'm fine with this ability, but that's all it really has. There's no other further context to indicate it makes them qualitatively superior.

The mental plane itself isn't inherently some literal higher part of reality though, it's just a connection of their collective consciousness where their thoughts can overlap and they can contact Illias. I just don't see how any of this is really anything solid for outright 5-D.

Can you please link those scans? I'm not sure why cognitions would not be a part of the soul, nor does the whole asmita stuff really make sense.

Mind and Soul are definentely two different things. And yeah, the scans in the OP, and this is the translation of the dialogue.

Asmita:やはり彼の小宇宙は輪廻を外れ世界にとけ込み生きている
Asmita: After all, his cosmo is out of Samsara (cycle of life and death), blending into the world and living in it.
Asmita: Fue el leo anterior... como lo pense, su cosmos ha salido del ciclo de muerte y resurrection y sigue viviendo en este mundo.
Asmita: It was the previous Leo... as I thought, his cosmo has come out of the cycle of death and resurrection and continues to live on in this world.

From the summary of the chapter courtesy of the translators at SaintSeiyaForos:
Afirma que es el León anterior y que su cosmos está fuera del ciclo de la vida y la muerte, viviendo integrado en el mundo.
He affirms that he is the previous Lion and that his cosmo is outside the cycle of life and death, living integrated into the world.

This is false and belies my earlier point of lacking context in the buddhist themes.

Here in the scan, as this "metaphor" is being discussed, you can clearly see Shaka holding up the Diamond Realm Mandala of Vairocana.

This is important because it is touching on the themes being discussed. In buddhism, the womb realm is the realm of physicality and manifestation. It is where ever changing things happen and nothing is ever permanent. The other realm is the diamond realm, and it is one of pure transcendence where all the static archetypes that exist a priori to and craft the lower realities. The diety Vairocana sits there and the eternal archetypes are simply thoughts that arise from his meditation in the void. Vairocana also being synonymous with the universe (in totality, not the physical 3-D verse) itself.

With that context in mind I think it's pretty clear that the "higher dimensional stuff" the stuff about "thoughts being transmitted to this realm" and the whole you can't go to this realm without the proper cognition" all point to this interpretation, which would indeed grant HDE.

That's Asmita, Shaka doesn't exist in TLC. Also that visual doesn't have anything to do with the mental plane or anything like that nor is he even discussing it in that scene, that's just him about to use the Tenbu Horin technique as he fights Illias.

It's their thoughts themselves that create said realm, and they perceive it by looking deeper within their own minds and believing in it so I'm not sure if that really works. But even so, I don't see how a heightened state of something abstract/metaphysical like thoughts alone warrants outright 5-D, and the plane in question lacking any in verse context for outright qualitative superiority or being a higher spatial dimension, making it not enough per the standards.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

What I'm saying is that it doesn't actually take the 8th sense to get there, and it has nothing to do with the 8th sense in general. It's just a higher realm of thought used as a battleground and a way for them to contact Illias.

They did get there (or more pedantically, manage to perceive it within their collective consciousness), Illias outright commends them for being able to do so.


As I said, I'm fine with this ability, but that's all it really has. There's no other further context to indicate it makes them qualitatively superior.

The mental plane itself isn't inherently some literal higher part of reality though, it's just a connection of their collective consciousness where their thoughts can overlap and they can contact Illias. I just don't see how any of this is really anything solid for outright 5-D.

Mind and Soul are definentely two different things. And yeah, the scans in the OP, and this is the translation of the dialogue.


That's Asmita, Shaka doesn't exist in TLC. Also that visual doesn't have anything to do with the mental plane or anything like that nor is he even discussing it in that scene, that's just him about to use the Tenbu Horin technique as he fights Illias.

It's their thoughts themselves that create said realm, and they perceive it by looking deeper within their own minds and believing in it so I'm not sure if that really works. But even so, I don't see how a heightened state of something abstract/metaphysical like thoughts alone warrants outright 5-D, and the plane in question lacking any in verse context for outright qualitative superiority or being a higher spatial dimension, making it not enough per the standards.

We already have support from team members, I think you can ask for closure so this can be enforced.

 

[StekFence]

That’s only because the opposition is still preparing a counter tho, at least hear it out when it comes

 

[Dr._whiteee]

What I'm saying is that it doesn't actually take the 8th sense to get there, and it has nothing to do with the 8th sense in general. It's just a higher realm of thought used as a battleground and a way for them to contact Illias.

They did get there (or more pedantically, manage to perceive it within their collective consciousness), Illias outright commends them for being able to do so.


As I said, I'm fine with this ability, but that's all it really has. There's no other further context to indicate it makes them qualitatively superior.

The mental plane itself isn't inherently some literal higher part of reality though, it's just a connection of their collective consciousness where their thoughts can overlap and they can contact Illias. I just don't see how any of this is really anything solid for outright 5-D.

Mind and Soul are definentely two different things. And yeah, the scans in the OP, and this is the translation of the dialogue.


That's Asmita, Shaka doesn't exist in TLC. Also that visual doesn't have anything to do with the mental plane or anything like that nor is he even discussing it in that scene, that's just him about to use the Tenbu Horin technique as he fights Illias.

It's their thoughts themselves that create said realm, and they perceive it by looking deeper within their own minds and believing in it so I'm not sure if that really works. But even so, I don't see how a heightened state of something abstract/metaphysical like thoughts alone warrants outright 5-D, and the plane in question lacking any in verse context for outright qualitative superiority or being a higher spatial dimension, making it not enough per the standards.

Hmm interesting, I will try to get you a response after work.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Cool, no rush around here. For what it's worth, I think we seem to have have a close to mutual perspective on the mechanics themselves of most of the points discussed, it's just whether or not we think it qualifies for qualitative superiority per the wiki standards.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

if you thought 5D was your worse fear. t Wait until my cosmology blog

Currently have multiple nonbias native Japanese and expert Japanese speakers looking over the scans to ensure 100% accuracy including context because speaking from experience, Br and Spanish translation should 100% be disregarded. Especially, third eye. I noticed they translate it from French and then French team always gets it wrong.

The scans I've used or your own? The scans along with the translations I've used have been already doubly validated here by ExecutorN0 and on the translation request thread. I'm pretty sure it's good enough as is.

 

[Huesito88]

Does that mean the entirety of Spanish transitions of Lost Canvas stuff is wrong?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

The scans I've used or your own? The scans along with the translations I've used have been already doubly validated here by ExecutorN0 and on the translation request thread. I'm pretty sure it's good enough as is.

Japanese os a context based language. How many rows did you send him? Because it appears there is difference according to these guys with full raws access

 

[KoolRay]

Disagree, 3D space was stated in chapter will respond to more soon.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Japanese os a context based language. How many rows did you send him? Because it appears there is difference according to these guys with full raws access

Everything that's in the post. And which difference, it would be interesting to see that.

Disagree, 3D space was stated in chapter will respond to more soon.

Mind posting the scan of this, because I never saw any statement of 3-D space anywhere in these chapters whatsoever. And I'm not sure what difference it makes to an argument about 5-D either.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I suppose this makes sense.

@SSJGeminiJJ List Medeus as agreeing with the Op, well, we've waited long enough, we've given 48 hours for the counterarguments and even given us a little more time for the staff's counterarguments and so far nothing relevant, I'll ask for closure and the Op can apply the changes.

 

[Hasty12345]

@SSJGeminiJJ List the Medeus as agreeing with Op, I think it's good to wait a long time, we gave 48 hours for the counterarguments and even gave us a little more time for the counterarguments of the staff and so far nothing relevant, I'll ask for closure and Op can apply the changes.

Mr Bambu has already said we should wait for counter arguments from the team who worked on the initial upgrade.

don’t rush a close here when it’s not necessary, counter arguments that properly give scans and appropriate context is being worked on.

if this thread gets closed before those counter arguments are made, a promise you a new thread will be made the moment those arguments are ready.

as a side note for all involved, no changes have been made to profiles yet, there are a few more massive revisions in the works that will affect every profiles and the “team” want to know what’s going to need changing before doing the whole verse overhaul.

so no “changes need to be applied”.

 

[AlexZiggy]

Agree with Hasty. Things are going slow rn but there are counter arguments in the works

 

[StekFence]

So here, the fact that Illias says this as something that applies to all souls (not something exclusive to those who awaken 8th sense) makes it abundantly evident that he's not referring to some literal change in dimensionality, but simply referring to the description in the series of souls ascending to the Underworld (another dimension) after death.

in what way is being in the underworld affecting your dimensionality? That’s a word used to refer to the dimensions the subject itself possesses, not the actual dimension it resides in, in the context of a universe. In addition, WoG states that she saw a link between dimensional ascension and the 8th sense, and that the story is made because of that, which would also be against this interpretation

 

[StekFence]

From these, I think it’s abundantly clear that the soul and matters pertaining to the soul(such as the 8th sense for instance) are 5D here, however I can understand you disagree with it being low 1-c irregardless if it’s 5d or not. I’ll have something about that later.

Also, the stuff about perceiving multiple dimensions and mind transcending space and time can be evidence of the mind being HDE.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

in what way is being in the underworld affecting your dimensionality? That’s a word used to refer to the dimensions the subject itself possesses, not the actual dimension it resides in, in the context of a universe. In addition, WoG states that she saw a link between dimensional ascension and the 8th sense, and that the story is made because of that, which would also be against this interpretation

Because that's the only consistent interpretation that actually works within the story. Or, as noted earlier in the thread, it could just be using dimension pretty frivolously, as fiction often does. In the end, there isn't a shred of supporting context to souls becoming 5-D objects simply by being disembodied, hence there's no reason to default it the highest possible interpretation with no support. Would all souls not be bigger than reality if they were 5-D? I'm sure you can see why this clearly isn't the case in canon.

And I don't know why you're trying to correlate something apparently said about the 8th sense specifically to something said about all souls in general, two completely different ideas. And what's the context of that WOG statement assuming it exists?

 

[Hasty12345]

Im sure it’ll all be in the post being worked on, we should preferably wait until both sides have fully structured arguments.

 

[StekFence]

Because that's the only consistent interpretation that actually works within the story. Or, as noted earlier in the thread, it could just be using dimension pretty frivolously, as fiction often does. In the end, there isn't a shred of supporting context to souls becoming 5-D objects simply by being disembodied, hence there's no reason to default it the highest possible interpretation with no support. Would all souls not be bigger than reality if they were 5-D? I'm sure you can see why this clearly isn't the case in canon.

And I don't know why you're trying to correlate something apparently said about the 8th sense specifically to something said about all souls in general, two completely different ideas. And what's the context of that WOG statement assuming it exists?

How could it be a consistent interpretation if the only way to reach this result is to use the words objectively wrong. Dimensionality is solely for describing the amount of dimensions a subject has.

And there actually is certain evidence that they become 5D in existence. For instance, the mind, which is stated to be HDE, is stated to see multiple dimensions and transcends space and time, and also gives knowledge of everything since the beginning of time. These statements combined heavily Suggest the Mind literally has gone beyond space And time in the most literal sense, as it can now see it on a different level. Also, the measurement of a 5d or above object by its length,width,height, or even position in time is comepltley irrelevant to the measure of its 5th measure. A soul could be higher D without actually being Uber wide and tall, so this isn’t a valid argument.

ネタとしては、 その時やたらと頭にあった、阿頼耶識と次元上昇って何かしら共通点があるのでは...というものを、答えのないまま捻り出すという、 なかなかバタバタとした想い出の3話となりました。
When it comes to the story, I tried to come up with something in common between the 8th sense (Arayashiki) and dimensional ascension, which was on my mind at the time... I couldn't find an answer for it, but I managed to come up with something in the 3rd story.
From this WoG, it can be surmised that she intended for the 8th sense to be HDE, and considering when she actually wrote the story, she had Illias say all souls have HDE, it can be reasonably assumed that this how she did it. Of course I’m making a connection between the 8th sense and souls. For several reasons, 1. Both have stated HDE. 2. Both ideas are closely related in universe in the first place. When a soul goes to the underworld, they lose their 7th sense, and have the opportunity to awaken the 8th.

 

[StekFence]

Also, the measurement of a 5d or above object by its length,width,height, or even position in time is comepltley irrelevant to the measure of its 5th measure. A soul could be higher D without actually being Uber wide and tall, so this isn’t a valid argument.

To illustrate this point, imagine a square that is 5 meters by 5 meters. If its dimensionality were to change into a 3D cube, it would gain an extra dimension that measures 5 meters. The first two measures don’t have to change, and if you were looking head on, aka perceiving only two dimensions, you wouldn’t perceive a difference.