While I agree that it is more likely, based on the translation, that it is using "dimension" more frivolously here than one would expect, I don't agree that a higher-D object appearing in lower-D space would somehow disqualify it from being higher-D. I generally find this evaluation right, though.
Aye, I think that the statement is too vague. Agreed.
To be fair, my assessment is that "dimensions" here is used in terms of "alt dimensions"- other planes of existence, such as the underworld. You are right in that it is scantly evidence for 5-D.
This... is a significantly more complicated issue. Your interpretation isn't guaranteed right or wrong, I can see how this would be taken in the direction of supporting higher-D existence. Overall I would describe myself on neutral on rejecting this point. This may or may not be legitimate.
May I take this as an agreement then?
It doesn’t show that.
How so? I've acknowledged all of it and covered it in the OP thoroughly. Every argument used point by point (directly quoted) was addressed by the OP. Perhaps I should've worded that as, the evidence cited being insufficient.
Considering this is controversial and tier 1 related, and the verse is popular on the wiki. This wound require more staff input, right?
We've got you and the admin little bro, I think that's enough to get through or do we need more?
It’s fairly clear you’re intentionally using very strong emotive language to make your position look far stronger than it is.
there’s a debunk post being worked on, we should wait for that before rushing. People have lives and aren’t always able to dedicate mass amounts of time to a hobby such as arguing with strangers on the internet about people wearing tights and armour
While phrased less than charitably, I think this is reasonable to a point. If a legitimate counter argument is being cooked up somewhere, it's best to let that finish so as to avoid further thread creation. Let's wait for 'em.
I wasn't aware the verse was popular on the wiki. I would say generally two admin evaluations are acceptable for this particular verse, although a rebuttal would be fine to wait for.
Exactly, it would be very frustrating for everyone involved if a thread is created in the next 48 hours to debunk this one
Well, as it stands I'm the one who's actually made any relevant arguments here. And I have no idea what you're trying to say with that, I'm being quite straightforward.
It's not really popular, but it has one or 10 people who like Saint Seiya, but it's about Tier 1 stuff that's tricky, so we need more than one team member (although the time of 48 hours passed, we should wait a little longer )
Well, because the "higher plane" in question has nothing to do dimensional transcendence here. As I pointed out in the OP, the "higher plane" doesn't even actually require the 8th sense to get to in the first place and is completely unrelated to it, which is a key detail left out in the last thread. Asmita and Sisyphos get to it before awakening it (the whole point of them raising their consciousness to contact Illias there is to learn more about it).
This confuses me a bit. 8th sense users being able to go there voluntarily doesn't preclude other forms of life getting there. Randolph Carter sure isn't 1-A as a human but goes to many higher dimensional realms outside of physical reality in his escapades as an example.
It can be within context. For instance, in Persona, there is an Akashic record that houses all events and memories of existence. This fundamental nature allows one to see across all of time and space, gain knowledge one wouldn't have, etc. so alone it's not proof but it is sure as heck good supporting evidence.
The scans make it pretty clear that it is indeed their cognition that is ascending. I think a very important context being left out is the blatant inspiration from Buddhism here. Ascending to deeper parts of reality via raising one's consciousness would indeed lend itself to this idea especially if the core of reality is mental in nature, which is what it seeming to be proposed from the scans I left.
Can you please link those scans? I'm not sure why cognitions would not be a part of the soul, nor does the whole asmita stuff really make sense.
This is false and belies my earlier point of lacking context in the buddhist themes.
What I'm saying is that it doesn't actually take the 8th sense to get there, and it has nothing to do with the 8th sense in general. It's just a higher realm of thought used as a battleground and a way for them to contact Illias.
They did get there (or more pedantically, manage to perceive it within their collective consciousness), Illias outright commends them for being able to do so.
As I said, I'm fine with this ability, but that's all it really has. There's no other further context to indicate it makes them qualitatively superior.
Mind and Soul are definentely two different things. And yeah, the scans in the OP, and this is the translation of the dialogue.
That's Asmita, Shaka doesn't exist in TLC. Also that visual doesn't have anything to do with the mental plane or anything like that nor is he even discussing it in that scene, that's just him about to use the Tenbu Horin technique as he fights Illias.
We already have support from team members, I think you can ask for closure so this can be enforced.
Hmm interesting, I will try to get you a response after work.
The scans I've used or your own? The scans along with the translations I've used have been already doubly validated here by ExecutorN0 and on the translation request thread. I'm pretty sure it's good enough as is.
Japanese os a context based language. How many rows did you send him? Because it appears there is difference according to these guys with full raws access
Everything that's in the post. And which difference, it would be interesting to see that.
Mind posting the scan of this, because I never saw any statement of 3-D space anywhere in these chapters whatsoever. And I'm not sure what difference it makes to an argument about 5-D either.
@SSJGeminiJJ List Medeus as agreeing with the Op, well, we've waited long enough, we've given 48 hours for the counterarguments and even given us a little more time for the staff's counterarguments and so far nothing relevant, I'll ask for closure and the Op can apply the changes.
Mr Bambu has already said we should wait for counter arguments from the team who worked on the initial upgrade.
Because that's the only consistent interpretation that actually works within the story. Or, as noted earlier in the thread, it could just be using dimension pretty frivolously, as fiction often does. In the end, there isn't a shred of supporting context to souls becoming 5-D objects simply by being disembodied, hence there's no reason to default it the highest possible interpretation with no support. Would all souls not be bigger than reality if they were 5-D? I'm sure you can see why this clearly isn't the case in canon.
How could it be a consistent interpretation if the only way to reach this result is to use the words objectively wrong. Dimensionality is solely for describing the amount of dimensions a subject has.
To illustrate this point, imagine a square that is 5 meters by 5 meters. If its dimensionality were to change into a 3D cube, it would gain an extra dimension that measures 5 meters. The first two measures don’t have to change, and if you were looking head on, aka perceiving only two dimensions, you wouldn’t perceive a difference.
