• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Saint Seiya 2-C upgrades and 2-A Additions

Status
Not open for further replies.

TheUnshakableOne

She/Her
VS Battles
Translation Helper
6,288
1,587
Summary: (Detailed information and scans are below the summary)

Athena = Tier 2-A through scaling of Zeus with ONLY her Shield and Staff of Niki, and her Hax. not for her physical stats!
Durability
= 2-A due to her forcefield hax and her physical Shield

Hades = Tier 2-A Scaling with Zeus but ONLY with his sword. Not his physical stats!
Range
for Hades should be 2-A. His Underworld is connected to all worlds as if it is some sort of nexus of all realities.

Thanatos = Tier 2-C; He casually destroyed all the Libra weapons
Durability = 2-C he did take some attacks from a God Cloth Pegasus Seiya

Hypnos = 2-C he physically matched the Sekishiki Tenroyu Ha
Durability 2-C took an attack from a God Cloth pegasus Seiya and other Gold Cloth saints, and on top of that he tanked the Sekishiki Tenroyu Ha

God Cloths in general = 2-C The were able to damage Hypnos
Durability = 2-C They received attacks from Hypnos and even hades

Gemini Saga = Tier 2-C with the Golden Dagger which was created to specifically kill other Gods. not his physical stats.

Sagittarius Seiya =
Tier 2-C and 2-A. 2-C with the Golden Dagger, and 2-A with the Sagittarius Bow. not his physical stats.

Sagittarius Aiolos =
2-A with the Sagittarius Bow. not his physical stats.

Libra Dohko =
2-C with Libra Weapons and 2-C Durability with Libra Shield. not his physical stats.

7thSense & 8th Sense hax resistance potency =
Their resistance to possession, soul, and mind hax should be at least 2-C and quiet possibly 2-A






Athena:

Attack Potency: Universe level+ (Overpowered Poseidon in Julian's body and Hades in Shun's body. Her power is stronger than any one of the Gold Saints) | Low Multiverse level at the peak of her power (Should be somewhat comparable to Poseidon as she sealed away his divine power, clashed with Hades and killed him with the help of the Divine Cloth Bronze Saints and the Staff of Nike. Anti-Pope Aiolos, who is capable of destroying a universe, still bows to Athena), Multiverse level+ with the Staff of Niki and her Shield (Athena fought many holy wars with Zeus as her enemy. Gemini Saga noted that it was her Staff of Niki, and her Shield that allowed her to win. Athena is also stated to have destroyed the true body of Typhon, and her power was used to bless the Sagittarius bow which endowed it with enough power to destroy Zeus’s body, soul, and mind)

Durability: Universe level+ (Tanked many blows from Poseidon) | Low Multiverse level with God Cloth, Multiverse level+ (Her Shield is noted to be one of the keys to victory when Zeus invades. Her shield also protected her from Hade’s Sword. She can also generate a force field that protects her, and others from strikes of Hade’s sword)

Level/Tier of Hax: 2-A Holy Manipulation, Sealing (She sealed Typhon), Soul and Mind destruction.

Explanation on Typhon tidbits: Typhon has tried to escape numerous times. Periodically a Gold Saint has to be sent out to put Typhon back into his seal. In Episode G, Typhon was attempting to escape, but Aiolos was dispatched to put Typhon back into his seal before he did escape. The Light Novel describes a time after Zeus defeated Typhon. Typhon successfully did manage to escape, but was defeated and sealed again.

The Changes here: Multiverse level+ AP with her Staff of Niki. Some of her hax kit be upgraded for affecting a 2-A being. Multiverse level+ Durability with her Shield and force field creation hax. NOT HER PHYSICAL STATS






God Cloth Shun, Hyoga, Shiryu, and Ikki:
God cloth Seiya should also be straight up Low Multiversal 2-C


Attack Potency: Low Multiverse level (They are comparable to Hypnos. The power of the God cloth allowed them to exchange blows with Hypnos and even had him on guard. And worried. Shun’s chains were able to crack the God Cloth of Hypnos, whereas the combined power of the Cygnus and Dragon God Cloths were enough to one-shot Hypnos.


Durability: Low Multiverse level (The power of the God cloths allowed them to withstand and exchange blows/attacks from Hypnos)

Changes here: The God Cloths should be Low Multiverse not Universe level+






Gemini Saga:

Attack Potency: At least Galaxy level, Universe level+ when using his maximum power (The Galaxian Explosion is equal to Leo Aiolia's Photon Burst. The Galaxian explosion had its power compared to Virgo Shaka's Tenma Kofuku. The power of the 7th sense is comparable to The Big Bang that created Time, alongside the Universe. Gold Saints are also stated to be capable of destroying the Universe.), Low Multiverse level (The Golden Dagger is a weapon specifically designed to kill other Gods)

Changes here: Add in Low Multiverse level tiering for the Golden Dagger not physical stats





Sagittarius Seiya:

Attack Potency: Universe level+ (Held his own against Mars), Low Multiverse level via the Golden Dagger (He was able to hurt Saturn with the Golden Dagger), Multiverse level+ with the Sagittarius Bow (The Sagittarius Bow is strong enough to kill gods such as Lucifer, Abel, and even Zeus) | Universe level+ with Enhanced Sagittarius Gold Cloth, Low Multiverse level via the Golden Dagger (He was able to hurt Saturn with the Golden Dagger), Multiverse level+ with the Sagittarius Bow (The Sagittarius Bow is strong enough to kill gods such as Lucifer, Abel, and even Zeus)

Changes here: Add in Low Multiverse level AP for the Golden Dagger, and Multiverse level+ for the Sagittarius bow not physical stats





Libra Dohko:

Attack Potency: At least Galaxy level, Universe level+ when using his maximum power (The most powerful of the Gold Saints alongside Aries Shion, superior to Gemini Saga), at least Galaxy level, Universe level+ through most powerful attacks (Equal to Aries Shion's), Low Multiverse level (The Libra Weapons are stronger than the combined power of all twelve gold saints. The Libra Sword gave very minor damage to the Cataclysm Slash which has strength equal, or greater than, Abzu)

Durability: at least Galaxy level, Universe level+ when burning his Cosmo to the maximum, Low Multiverse level with the Libra Shield (The Libra Shield protected Dohko with attacks from Gods such as Pontos. The Libra shield also destroyed one of the seven pillars that were supported by Poseidon's Divine Will)

Changes Here: Low Multiverse level AP for his Libra Weapons, and Low Multiverse level durability for Libra Shield. not his physical stats






Aiolos:

Attack Potency: At least Galaxy level, Universe level+ when using his maximum power (Stated as being the strongest Gold Saint by Aries Mu, Capricorn Shura and Virgo Shaka. Said to be the strongest Gold Saint by the narration four times over two consecutive pages. Has been stated to have strength superior to Saga's. His power is superior to that of the Sun God Ra, knocked sealed Typhon back into slumber with one attack, channeled Atum's light and killed the God of Chaos Apophis with one arrow), Multiverse level+ (The Sagittarius Bow is strong enough to kill gods such as Lucifer, Abel, and even Zeus)

Changes here: Multiverse level+ for the Sagittarius bow not physical stats




Thanatos:

Attack Potency: Low Multiverse level (Casually destroyed all of the Libra Weapons)

Durability: Low Multiverse level (Comparable to his brother, Hypnos. Took some attacks from a God Cloth Pegasus Seiya.)

Changes here: Thanatos should be upgraded to Low Multiverse level in AP and durability





Hypnos:

Attack Potency: Low Multiverse level (Comparable to his brother Thanatos)

Durability: Low Multiverse level (Hypnos tanked an attack that had the combined force/power of an entire era of saints including the Pope, all 12 Gold Saints, all Silver and Bronze saints of that era. He took some damage from a God Cloth Pegasus Seiya)

Changes here: he should be upgraded in AP and durability to Low Multiverse level




Hades:

Attack Potency: Low Multiverse level (Above Thanatos, and Hypnos.), Multiverse level+ with his sword (Hades is stated to be comparable to Zeus. Hades sword even cut an Urn, with his sword only, that Zeus’s lightning could not break) | Low Multiverse level (Created Hell, the Hyperdimension, and Elysium, and sustained them through his Will. Could have easily killed Athena if he wasn't holding back), Multiverse level+ with his sword (Hades is stated to be comparable to Zeus. Hades sword even cut an Urn, with his sword only, that Zeus’s lightning could not break.)


Range: Low Multiverse level | Multiverse level+ (His Underworld takes in souls from all other worlds)

Explanation: Hades Underworld takes in souls from all worlds. His Underworld is connected to every world. Aiolos proves this as he uses it to move between worlds. Shura states that he came from a different world, and during a conversation he had with Milo. Milo had him remember that he traveled through the Underworld. We are then shown Camus who is having the same thing happen to him. Camus is being summoned from another world but he must walk the Underworld and he even Meets Hades. Dohko also states that the Super Dimensional Space could send someone to “Other Dimensions.” In the manga series Next Dimension; It is not simple time travel. Chronos sent Athena to “Another dimension.” Later, Shun is taken to the Underworld (Shun who is supposed to be 200 years into the past). He sees Seiya walking to his eventual and permanent death by Hades Sword. Seiya was 200 years in the future, and in some other world/dimension, compared to where Shun is. Lastly, one of the last chapters of Episode G Assassins. Aiolos directly states that he was using the Underworld to move into other worlds, dimensions, times/era/histories, etc.

Changes here: Hades should have his range upgraded to Multiverse level. His sword AP should be 2-A but not his physical stats.




Smurf Abilities, or stronger potency resistance to certain hax:

2-C to 2-A
Mind Manipulation, soul manipulation resistance, and resistance to possession(?) for 7th sense users

Aiolia was able to fight off and Resist control from Zeus

The Pope in Lost Canvas managed to resist control from Thanatos

Kouga resisted Abzu

Kyoko, Shoko’s sister, in Santia Sho resisted Eris

8th sense Users are completely unaffected by the affects of Hades Underworld
Things such as Death Manipulation, Mind, and Soul Manipulation happen upon entering Hades Underworld. Which Hades Underworld is permeated with Hades own Divine Will where his Will takes in souls from all realities and they become subjected to his power.
 
Last edited:
I hard agree with Hades and Athena, it couldn't be more blatant.

Aiolos shouldn't get 2-A via the Sagi bow as it was shown to be enhanced by Athena in GA, rather the "enhanced/blessed Sagi bow" should be "optional equipment" for Aiolos.

Omega Seiya having a golden dagger key should be fine as it's like his "final form" in Omega, so I agree with 2-C golden dagger Omega Seiya. The same thing for the bow however.

Gemini Saga has used the golden dagger multiple times, that being said, I think it should be in his optional (maybe even standard equipment) and not have a key.

As for the Libra weapons, they very clearly have better feats in the hands of Gold Saints than the bronze Saints and should have variable AP/durability, that being said, the twins being able to destroy the libra weapons but Pontos unable to destroy a single shield is strange. I'm neutral on 2-C twins as I'd argue that Dohko is probably still stronger than Shiryu at the time (supporting the variable AP/dura for libra weapons) so Pontos unable to break the shield wouldn't scale to thanatos breaking the weapons in the hands of Shiryu.

Shiryu not scaling to Dohko is made clear in ND when it's shown the bronzes are yet to master the 7th sense, and have only tapped into their higher senses in times of crisis (i.e. fighting the mariners, awakening god cloth, fighting Hades etc etc).

to summarize:

2-A Hades' sword, staff of Nike', shield of aegis = agree

2-A range Hades due to the nature of the UW = agree

2-C God slaying weapons (sagi bow only 2-A when enhanced by athena) = agree

god slaying weapons should be optional equipment for the saints who have used them.

libra weapon up-to 2-C with variable AP/dura (via scaling to Pontos and Abzu at their absolute peak in the hands of top tier gold saints) = agree

2-C twins = idk how I feel about that so neutral

2-C god cloths = I guess if that's dependent on 2-C twins then I'm also neutral on that.
 
None of them is evidence for 2-A. Do you know that 2-A is infinite universes? And even one shotting a 2-C makes you no where near 2-A.
 
None of them is evidence for 2-A. Do you know that 2-A is infinite universes? And even one shotting a 2-C makes you no where near 2-A.
could you be more specific on what you have a problem with? Zeus is rated 2-A on this wiki.

Athena and Hades are being scaled to Zeus via feats and statements.
 
None of them is evidence for 2-A. Do you know that 2-A is infinite universes? And even one shotting a 2-C makes you no where near 2-A.
Zeus and Typhon are 2-A

Zeus gets his rating for defeating Cronos whom could erase the multiverse. (I oversimplified that but you get the point)
 
I hard agree with Hades and Athena, it couldn't be more blatant.

Aiolos shouldn't get 2-A via the Sagi bow as it was shown to be enhanced by Athena in GA, rather the "enhanced/blessed Sagi bow" should be "optional equipment" for Aiolos.

Omega Seiya having a golden dagger key should be fine as it's like his "final form" in Omega, so I agree with 2-C golden dagger Omega Seiya. The same thing for the bow however.

Gemini Saga has used the golden dagger multiple times, that being said, I think it should be in his optional (maybe even standard equipment) and not have a key.

As for the Libra weapons, they very clearly have better feats in the hands of Gold Saints than the bronze Saints and should have variable AP/durability, that being said, the twins being able to destroy the libra weapons but Pontos unable to destroy a single shield is strange. I'm neutral on 2-C twins as I'd argue that Dohko is probably still stronger than Shiryu at the time (supporting the variable AP/dura for libra weapons) so Pontos unable to break the shield wouldn't scale to thanatos breaking the weapons in the hands of Shiryu.
I can agree to the Golden Dagger being option equipment. I don't even know why its on the standard equipment

however, I do believe the Sagittarius bow should be "At least 2-C" as it has 1-shotted gods such as Abel with no problem.

The Sagittarius bow should be standard equipment for Aiolos. He uses it msotly on stronger targets such as gods like Ra, Apophis, Sealed Typhon etc. For Omega Seiya im fine with saying its Optional dude never even used it iirc.

I disagree with variable stats on Libra Weapons. I think their pretty static and consistently above Low Multiverse level. Pontos wanted Aiolia alive so that he could mind control Aiolia who can use Zeus's weapon (Lightening).
 
Last edited:
Most seen fine i guess, except for Thanatos, Hypnos and Libra Weapons.

You cannot be 2-C by simply scaling above Low 2-C, as the distance between universes/timelines is supposed to be unquantifiable.

And Gold Saints have never display any true 2-C feats as far i'm aware, not even by combining their strength, same with the Libra Weapons.
 
agreed with everything , except the hypnos justification , mostly cuz i don't get what part of the scans is the support for 2-C so an explanation would be appreciated
 
You cannot be 2-C by simply scaling above Low 2-C
2-C so an explanation would be appreciated
the 2-C justification comes from scaling to the Sagi bow which has been used to beat 2-C rated Gods repeatedly, as well as being relative to a weapon in Omega known as "theogenesis sword" (or whatever it's called) which is relative to the primordial god Abzu (who's 2-C on the wiki).

It's not unfounded, just not as consistent as low 2-C.

I'm personally of the opinion that Thanatos and Hypnos scaling massively above the Libra weapons should just scale them higher into low 2-C and MAYBE warrant a "at least low 2-C" rating as the libra weapons do have some 2-C scaling.
 
agreed with everything , except the hypnos justification , mostly cuz i don't get what part of the scans is the support for 2-C so an explanation would be appreciated
Most seen fine i guess, except for Thanatos, Hypnos and Libra Weapons.

You cannot be 2-C by simply scaling above Low 2-C, as the distance between universes/timelines is supposed to be unquantifiable.

And Gold Saints have never display any true 2-C feats as far i'm aware, not even by combining their strength, same with the Libra Weapons.
Libra weapon scaling.

Cataclysm Slash is = or > Abzu. Libra sword managed to damage the sword

The Libra weapons are > the durability of poseidons pillars which are supported by his divine will.

The Libra shield also helped defend aiolis from Pontos's attacks.

Thanatos also didn't get 1-shotted by seiya in God cloth.

God cloth seiya took a serious attack from Thanatos and it did nothing unlike the attack that broke the libra weapons which was Thanatos fooling around being cocky.

Hypnos noted that it was Thanatos's fault for being defeated due to Hubris.

Hypnos soon after takes a Pegasus meteor fist from God cloth seiya suffering no damage from it and aeiya in god cloth should be 2-C.

I'm going to work but this is all I have time to explain atm.
 
Last edited:
I have heard that base Seiya is Low Multiversal is that correct? Also how powerful is base/Bronze Seiya in the final arc?
Bronze Seiya? Do you mean Hades arc seiya without God Cloth for the last question?

The first question, do you mean to say Base Seiya in the Classic Seiries, or another?
 
Bronze Seiya? Do you mean Hades arc seiya without God Cloth for the last question?

The first question, do you mean to say Base Seiya in the Classic Seiries, or another?
I am talking about his strongest version which I think is the Hades arc. I have seen Omega, but barely know anything about it.
 
I am talking about his strongest version which I think is the Hades arc.
His strongest version in Hades arc is God Cloth which is low multiversal

but if you mean base/his upgraded Bronze Cloth. He has the 7th sense at that point so Low 2-C when burning his 7th sense to the highest point. 3-C is the Base level of the 7th sense Which i absolutely hate and disagree with.
 
His strongest version in Hades arc is God Cloth which is low multiversal

but if you mean base/his upgraded Bronze Cloth. He has the 7th sense at that point so Low 2-C when burning his 7th sense to the highest point. 3-C is the Base level of the 7th sense Which i absolutely hate and disagree with.
What arc/version is the upgraded Bronze Cloth?
 
What arc/version is the upgraded Bronze Cloth?
Seiys isn't relevent to the thread as he doesn't scale to Hades' sword AP wise, nor does he scale to the staff of Niki/shield of Aegis.

If you have questions about Seiya, here's his profile:

 
I completely disagree, well there was already a thread that Saints at this level was denied months ago, but apparently it was reopened and that one left as unforgettable even though all the arguments in favor of the upgrade had already been debunked.

Anyway I have no desire to even help with this verse anymore due to this, so I ask you to please disregard me for any Saint Seiya thread since it is irrelevant in the end, and anything will always be accepted even if most people disagree.
 
Well, if this has been rejected already, it can easily be rejected again, if you repeat the arguments.

Anyway, it is too hard for me to keep track of who do not want to be included in every type of thread. My apologies.
 
Well, if this has been rejected already, it can easily be rejected again, if you repeat the arguments.

Anyway, it is too hard for me to keep track of who do not want to be included in every type of thread. My apologies.
It wasn't rejected ahd this thread's topic was never discussed. He's referring to a different thread and nothing was debunked or rejected. I can also claim I debunked his arguments and that my points had more overall suppprt.

Me and him have drastically differing views on Saint seiya verse.

But I'd like to not rehash old drama though...

If he wishes to avoid the Saint seiya verse on the wiki he should probably be removed from knowledgeable members in the verse page as to not further be tagged into threads as he requested

Can Matt pm /DM someone still?
 
Last edited:
Yeah, UnShakableOne makes good points and I don't necessarily blame Alonik. I think most of us would rather not see the infamous conflict between two former staff members and their respective followers to be necro'd again.
 
Which members are you referring to Medeus? You can send me a PM if it is too controversial to bring up here.
 
Im down with waiting for Matt as well.

his Input is always valuable

Edit: If i need to write out a summary for him that is more.. well structured than what i have above... I'll do that..
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top