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Sailor Moon Respect Thread

Imperator100isnotavailable

Imperator100isnotavailable

168
14
I was asked to make this thread to address the power of the Sailor Moon Manga. I will be using the Miss Dream Translation which is easily available online, though I have personal issues with the translation. If cases where translations is very important I shall also state the translation given by the newest Official English Translation, this being the one released by Kodansha as I own the entire Kodansha set.

I should note before I begin something thatmay be hard for English-Speakers to understand. In Japanese there is not an inherent Singular/Plural Distinction on nouns. If I say the word for chair, I could mean A Chair, The Chair, Some Chairs, or All the Chairs. To make something plural one just adds a number usually. So if a character says "Ginga" for instance, they could mean galaxy or galaxies. Obviously we should take the conservative interpretation when presented it but it also means that such things can't be used to "disprove" higher feats. I have heard people claim there can be no feats above Universal in Sailor Moon before the Lambda Power in the English Translation is said to come from all the Star Seeds of the Galaxy, however in Japanese the same word could also mean the Star Seeds of the Galaxies, plural.

So let's start with AP/Durability. I'm going to try and stick to the main big feats as much as possible.

So the weakest attack in the series, Sailor Moon's Ultrasonic Crying was powerful enough to destroy Jadeite's Dimension:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act03/037.jpg

In the same chapter, Mars very first attack after transforming for the first time was powerful enough to destroy Jadeite's dimension as a sideffect of her attack:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act03/041.jpg

Jadeite's Dimension had a moon orbiting wherever they were:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act03/036.jpg

Now there is a claim that this Moon was a "Henshin Effect" which does not make sense for two reasons.

First of all here is the sequence of events:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act03/035.jpg

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act03/036.jpg

Notice how Moon Henshins, Mercury teleports in, they find Jadeite, Jadeite grabs Rei and then Moon does her Pre-Battle Speech with the moon in the sky. There is a way too long interval for it to be an effect from her henshin. It would be more consistent to claim that the Moon is part of her Pre-Battle Speech, but not only is there no reason for that to be the case but there is a second problem with that claim.

Whenever that little Moon image appears elsewhere you see little stars in the background

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act01/035.jpg

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act02/071.jpg

In Jadeite's Dimension there are no stars:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act03/036.jpg

it's not like it's difficult to draw basic star shapes. Naoko didn't because that it legitimately supposed to be the sky of Jadeite's Dimension.

Honestly putting Jadeite, Nephrite and Zoicite is kinda lowballing honestly since it really doesn't make that much sense for them to be THAT much lower then Kunzite but what you going to do.


Moving on:

In Chapter 6, Luna is describing the great power of the Silver Crystal and says the following:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act06/015.jpg

However I have a problem with this translation. The original Japanese word is "Hoshi" which should properly translate to "Star." It can be translated to planet but it shoudn't be default translation where then is a seperate word used for planet even within the same arc. Likewise the image is one of a supernova.

The Kodansha translation agrees with me, translating it as "The 'Legendary Silver Crystal'....depending on how it's used, has the power to easily blow a star apart."

Luna as the previous advisor to Queen Serenity, is well aware of the power of the Silver Crystal. It should be noted that Luna is not describing what a master of the Silver Crystal can do, but anyone who can get their hands on it. The context of the conversation on the previous page was not about if the rightful user gets their power on the Silver Crystal but if an evil-doer gets the Crystal:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act06/014.jpg

The statement about the easy stellar destruction and the supernova image is about the "great destruction" any villain might perform if they got the Crystal.

Likewise when Princess Serenity releases the power of the Silver Crystal for the first time, Act 9 he immediately compares it to a supernova:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act09/020.jpg

And Queen Beryl who also is well aware of the Crystal's power is shocked at the sheer power being released:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act09/019.jpg


Far later at the end of the second arc, Act 26, Death Phantom was an absolutely enormous planet whose destruction has been calced into the Solar System Range:

http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/destruction-of-planet-nemesis-revisited.24744/

Indeed Planet Nemesis was so big that despite being at the edge of the Solar System, when it was, the explosion taking up the same space it did:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act26/030.jpg

Looked in the Sky above Earth to be comparable to the Sun in size:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act26/031.jpg

So a Celestial Body that looks the same size as the Sun but is at the edge of the Solar System. That's pretty big.


Let's move onto the third arc.

Pharaoh 90 is the Chaos-Spawn of the third arc. He rules over the Tau Nebula, which was a very distant galaxy:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act32/012.jpg

Yes as you may have noticed from the same scan he was warping the spacetime all the way to Earth, warping the "Omega Area" on Earth to make it possible for his forces to get through his dimensions and invade and make the fortress inaccessible.

He also flung his galaxy from it's very distant area to more nearby, creating a galactic scale spacetime distortion:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act37/012.jpg

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act37/013.jpg


He also gave to his forces the Taioran Crystal. The Taioran Crystal is far superior in power to the Death-Busters, it also the source of their power. This means it far superior to the comparable Guardian Senshi and Sailor Moon. Indeed in the Kodansha translation it is even state that it the source of the Tau Nebula's power, which people might claim means it is galactic in power.

However when Sailor Moon transformed into Super Sailor Moon, merely the energy of her henshin, which she herself tanked was stated in the Miss Dream Translation to be thousands of times the energy of Taioran Crystal at it's peak:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act33/014.jpg

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act33/015.jpg

The Kodansha Translation and instead says "This power is tens of thousands of times greter then the Taioran Crystal at it's maximum." Bear in mind, this is not her attack. This is just her transforming. Which she recieves no recoil damage from as Professor Tomoe states.


In the Fourth Arc, Act 47, Super Sailor Moon destroys one of Queen Nehelenia's mirror worlds with a mere gesture, ejecting her, Super Sailor Saturn, and Super Sailor Sailor Chibi-Moon back into the real world:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act47/030.jpg

Later in the fourth arc, Act 49, Eternal Sailor Moon after launching her first attack in the form destroys Queen Nehelenia and as a side-effect destroys Queen Nehelenia main mirror dimension, held in the Dreak Kingdom Elysian:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act49/014.jpg

For reference, Nehelenia's mirror dimensions are large enough to have their constellations:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_materialscollection/materials070.png


To use her first attack as Eternal Sailor Moon, Eternal Sailor Moon had to use all the energy of the Solar System, including all the energy of the Silver Crystal. The Silver Crystal is "the ultimate force of creation" and at the beginning of the universe was the source of all energy in the universe. The Miss Dream Translation does not say this:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act03/005.jpg

However in the Kodansha it is stated "the Legendary Silver Crystal is a stone that is the source of all energy. It contains unfathomable, limitless power! The one who wields it will become the ruler of all the universe!"

So we are talking Big Bang Scale energy at least.


Also Eternal Sailor Moon's Henshin sent light throughout spacetime:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act54/022.jpg


Finally we come to the Fifth Arc:

The energy of the previous 4 arcs is so meagerly compared to the power of the people of the fifth arc that Galaxia's power in civilian form is above them and Usagi tanks that energy in her civilian form:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act55/008.jpg

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act55/009.jpg


The Final Arc deals with the battle of Cosmos and Chaos, the two greatest forces in the SM Verse, existence and nonexistence. They are the ultimate light and darkness and the union of them is the end of it all:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act59/032.jpg


Chaos had as it's utimate goal the forging of a new universe:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act57/014.jpg


As the Ultimate Forces of the Sailor Moon they should unquentionablly stronger then a "mere" God like Chronos, who formed the spacetime continuum:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act19/018.jpg

This, as well as other things, also suggests Greek Mythology is canon to the SM-Verse, which should also put Chaos above Chronos, as well bring up other interesting feats potentially.


Chaos was also warping from the very edges of spacetime, going to change the whole spacetime continuum, although the Miss Dream Translation does not capture this well:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act53/016.jpg

Kodansha Translation: A gigantic vortex is emanating power somwhere to the far reaches of spacetime. And it is leading to abnormal phenomena in the past. At this rate.....history may be altered....!


In Act 60 Usagi attains her Lambda Form and uses the Lambda Power which merely as a side effect destroys Chaos and restores the entire cosmos.

The Kodansha Translation: This is the Cosmos Crystal's ultimate Lambda Power, which restores everything to the static "cosmos".

She reset and essentially remade the entire cosmos from Chaos's warping, which was to the far reaches of spacetime. It is notable tht the Lambda Power did not heal or anything, it essentially remade. That is the power of the Galaxy Cauldron, it creates Star Seeds, not heals them.


Indeed as a Lambda Senshi, Usagi had the power if she wished to start a completely new history if she wanted, which would be essentially the formation of an entirely new spacetime continuum:

Kodansha Translation: "That you have come here to me does this mean you want to discard your life into the Cauldron's sea of beginnings, and star a fresh history of new heavenly bodies?"


So that covers AP/Durability. Should I do Speed and Haxes (the later will take a VERY long time).

 
Sailor Moon Speed:

For the Sailor Senshi, traveling around the Solar System is easy and a part of the Job Descriptions. As the Planetary Guardians of the Solar System one would expect and be correct in that traveling around the solar system is an easy task.

In this very first chapter of Codename: Sailor V, Minako (Sailor Venus) zips easily to the planet Venus before she even transforms for the first time:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_sailorv/sailorv_chapter01/023.jpg

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_sailorv/sailorv_chapter01/024.jpg


Hotaru in her civilian form was able to fly to Charon Castle orbiting Pluto in the timespan it took Sailor Galaxia to point:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act53/039.jpg

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act55/042.jpg

Notice how Hotaru is still in her civilian form.


In Chibiusa's Picture Diary #2, Chibi-Moon fights the Weaver Stars which travel from Vega to Earth every year for a day.


Prince Diamond was capable of conquering every planet in all of space personally within the span of a natural human lifespan. Even if he just had to move one meter for each planet, that's millions of times lightspeed:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act21/015.jpg


Pharoah 90 was capable of flinging itself (and the entire galaxy it was in) inter-galactic distance as shown in the OP. Sailor Saturn and Super Sailor Moon were comparable in speed to Pharaoh 90.


The original Queen Serenity and Queen Nehelenia came from a distant galaxy:

http://i28.servimg.com/u/f28/16/58/79/49/tumblr24.jpg


Chibi-Chibi who is at the center of the galaxy sends out a distress signal and Eternal Chibi-Moon and the Eternal Amazon Senshi immediately arrive:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act57/019.jpg

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act57/020.jpg


Eternal Sailor Moon, Princess Kakyuu, and the Sailor Starlights fly to the center of the galaxy from seemingly beyond the galaxy:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act56/003.jpg

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act56/004.jpg

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act56/005.jpg

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act56/006.jpg

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act56/007.jpg

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act56/008.jpg


Bear in mind this is NOT teleportation. They explictly say "fly" to. Speaking of teleportation though, the teleportation of the Black Moon Crystal easily teleports Prince Diamond and Saphir from the edge of spacetime to the Solar System in moments:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act23/014.jpg

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act23/020.jpg

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act23/021.jpg

Yet the Eternal Sailor Senshi still fly vast distances instead of teleport since it seems that Eternal Sailor Senshi speed is faster then their teleportation, which can go from the edge of spacetime to the Solar System in moments.


Also on that same note, The Lambda Power is fast enough to restore the entirety of spacetime, yet it's frozen in the air compared to Eternal Sailor Senshi:

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act60/015.jpg

https://gallery.missdream.org/albums/scanlation_smoon/smoon_act60/016.jpg


Of course for those with the Lambda Power Speed is basically irrelevant as those with the Lambda Power can transfer information and power through time, and can use acausality to duplicate themselves.
 
Good job, although some of the flying moments do in fact look like teleportation (I know that you already said that "fly" is used). Can you explain why those flashes of light may be present?

Also, can you explain why the Sailor Senshi are above Chronos?
 
The word fly is indeed present and they even talk about the danger of traveling there as there might be traps between them and the Galactic Center. Those lights are pretty much always there when they fly, in New Age terms that's their Aura which emanates from their Soul or as SM calls it their "hoste" (Holy Body). Indeed most of the time the Senshi don't fly just because it creates a very obvious and noticable light.

The Lambda Power is above Chronos for three reasons primarily

1: It is one of the two ultimate forces of the series, the Ultimate Light and Ultimate Darkness which are stronger then anything else. The Ultimate Light and the Ultimate Darkness are Cosmos and Chaos, Existence and Non-Existence

2: The power of Gods (Kami) in Sailor Moon are about on par with Queen Serenity. Queen Serenity herself said she was an incarnation of the Moon Goddess Selene. The Lambda Power is far above Queen Serenity

3: Greek Mythology appears to be canon in Sailor Moon (several Greek Mythological stories are referenced as having happaned such as Venus being born from the foam of the sea). Chaos is very much not the Modern English "Chaos" but the Classical Greek idea of Chaos as primordial void. In that Case, Chaos spawned and was stronger then the primordial beings including Chronos. The Lambda Power is stronger then Chronos.
 
Manga/Canon Sailor Moon is only at low 2-C imo. You could make the argument that because Sailor Moon is canonically a multiverse, then Existence and Nonexistence should be above such things, but I don't think there is enough evidence for that.
 
I will inform DarkLK about this thread. Thank you for your effort.

Btw: He wanted us to critically analyse the information, not simply blindly accept it.
 
DarkLK has replied that he will not interfere, but nevertheless, I would appreciate if everybody make a sincere effort to properly critically evaluate this information, and I am too busy with monitoring work to be of much help in this regard.

He previously stated that he thought that the absolute top tiers were likely only 3-A, with everybody else below that level.
 
I am unsure about the legitimacy of Jadeite's dimension, but have nothing to say that has not been said before. It looks similar to the other transformation sequences' effects.

Silver Crystal and Solar System level feats are fine. No complaints there. Galaxy level things seem fine, as well.

Is the mirror dimension really a separate dimension or is it just a mirror used to observe the universe? I can't see any proof supporting that it is its own dimension.

I believe it seems reasonable to interpret the "immeasurable, unlimited power" as High 3-A to Low 2-C in scale. Lighting up all of space-time is likely unquantifiable. Changing history on this scale is likely Universe level+.

Speed feats seem fine.
 
Prom took the words out for me here.

First part i'm sincerely unsure to accept it or not now that i really took the time to think about.

Definitely agree with the Silver Crystal and Solar System feat as well as the Galaxy one.

The Mirror one, i'd really appreciate with a bit more clarification on weather if it's really it's own dimension or not.

Same with what Prom said on the "immeasurable, unlimited power" part.

The speed feats are good to me.
 
So we are talking Big Bang Scale energy at least.

This is wery weak point in this RT.

Proof with "BB level energy", please.
 
The Kodansha Translation: This is the Cosmos Crystal's ultimate Lambda Power, which restores everything to the static "cosmos".

Universe scale restore? This is only 3-A.
 
Hmm...I have a few opinions, on this.

First, as has been said before, I'm 99.99999% positive the Jadeite dimension size isn't legit. The exact same moon is seen in other transformation sequences. Not to mention the dimension itself is portrayed as incredibly fragile. Usagi's supersonic crying is enough to destabalize it, and the entire thing catching fire is enough to cause it to begin breaking apart. Even labelling it as planet level would be incredibly generous, and it's likely far below that.

The Planet Nemesis stuff seem totally fine.

Pharaoh 90 is powerful, but I have no seen anything in these scans which points to galactic level power, specifically. Maybe Multi-Solar System due to the mention of numerous planets? But I'm not sure.

I don't know if the Mirror World feat is quantifable. The mirrors showing constellations and blackness when not in use is not enough proof that each one contains multiple constellations.

Should the Silver Crystal actually control everything in the universe and this is not just hyperbole, that does seem like it would be universe level.

Hm...I don't think Dark was on board with this one, but strictly from what has been shown, I don't see a problem with Chaos, Cosmos, and Lamba Power Usagi being High 3-A or Low 2-C.
 
From what I've read I conclude that:

-Due to rather high chances that the Jadeite dimension is really just an artisitic effect I would say that the feat probably should not be used.

-This Mirror world doesn't really the best of feats, because as Prom states, this Mirror world needs more clarification over what it actually is

-I don't really have much probelms with the Silver Crystal controling everything though, as long as its not shown otherwise.

-The scaling with Cronos seems legit, at least, mainly the 3rd point and if the mythos does stay canon in SM (tho I have some troubles with that)

- "the Legendary Silver Crystal is a stone that is the source of all energy. It contains unfathomable, limitless power! The one who wields it will become the ruler of all the universe!" kinda sounds like hyperbole (mainly due to the exclamation marks) to me, but I'll let you guys decide.

-I also agree with A6soulute over the Big Bang level energy statement and the fact that said Universal Scale Restoration is 3-A.

-I don't exactly know how I feel about the Galaxy feat, but am ok with all the other low tier feats
 
My in-depth thoughts:

- Jadiete's Dimension is a questionable feat, and I am iffy about it. However, you do have a point when showing that no 5-pointed stars are seem during the Jadiete scene, so it could really be a 5-A feat.

- I have no qualms with the Crystal / Supernova, nor with Planet Nemesis, and Pharaoh 90's Nebula also seems fine.

- I accept all the God Tier feats. If the Legendary Silver Crystal contains all energy in the universe and is described as a "limitless power", then I accept it being a Universe level thing. Altering all of history across all of space-time, as well as creating the space-time continuum, or being superior to the being who did that, are all Low 2-C feats.
 
Alright let me see this whole thing so far.

So Me, SD, Prom, and i presume Azzy and Matt seem to have a problem with the Jabite(?) dimension....thing.

As what SD summerized what Prom said earlier, we definitely need more clarification on what it actually is in nature.

All the other points said by those of A6, Azzy, SD, and Matt about the Top and God Tier ones? Kind of conflicted at the moment so i'll have to reevalute them....
 
The Jadeite's Dimension size is invalid. We clearly see the very same Moon in the background, with little miniscule dots that represent what I don't know, consistent with the previous image.

Clearly it's artistic special effects, nothing indicative of the actual size of the dimension, the author being too lazy to draw a star or two doesn't dispel the fact that many of the same features are still there, especially considering it's occurring at a pivotal moment.

I think in Japanese a star and planet are sometimes indistinguishable?

A light with such intensity that it's comparable to a supernova doesn't mean it has that destructive energy.

For us to understand how impressive the energy emitted is we'd have to know exactly how strong Queen Beryl is.

So I disagree.

Solar System Planet Nemesis seems fine.

You say space-time was warped but only space was mentioned. Why?

Moving a galaxy and distorting its space-time should be enough for galaxy level in my opinion and Sailor Moon being 1000 times stronger than this…Multi-Galactic Super Sailor Moon seems fine.

I actually agree with Queen Nehelenia's dimension having its own constellations as it's stated to be an alternate world and I doubt it would display constellations of any other.

Comparatively it's not as impressive as the previous feat though.

Now for the good stuff.

Creating energy of the Universe=3-A, as is controlling it.

If we take the "limitless power" statement at face value it would be High 3-A.

Spreading images throughout space-time is a matter of range, not AP.

Not enough information to decide if forming a Universe in this context is Low 2-C or 3-A.

No evidence as to why Cronus is considered inferior to other god tiers. It being based on Greek mythology isn't enough, it should be actually stated in series as we do not know to what extent it follows mythology, only that it incorporates several aspects into it.


Altering history in this manner also seems to be a case of Low 2-C.

Sending stimuli throughout space-time should be referred to as range rather than Immeasurable speed IMO as no movement is actually involved, nor does it effect the state of existence of the Sailor Senshi.

Viewing restoration of space-time in slow motion, how do we know this is due to speed and not the restoration actually taking time to occur.
 
So the weakest attack in the series, Sailor Moon's Ultrasonic Crying was powerful enough to destroy Jadeite's dimension

This seems to be proving that the Jadeite's Dimension is not really a dimension as it was easily destroyed. It just seems too fragile.

Mirror World

I haven't read Sailor Moon so I don't really know what the Mirror World is.

Big Bang

Mostly agreeing with what SD said regarding this.

Everything else

Looks fine.
 
Well...

I feel like my brain just made half of a back flip, did some eggs while being drunk and a severe migraine after reading the previous thread and this one.

Anymway, as far i could understand. The only problem that i could find is Jadiete's Dimension & The Big Bang energy scale.

The rest is fine. I guess.
 
"This, as well as other things, also suggests Greek Mythology is canon to the SM-Verse, which should also put Chaos above Chronos, as well bring up other interesting feats potentially." I think that's a little bit of a stretch as many series take many liberties from common myths..that does not make it canon "in verse" and does not insinuates that it much behave such as the myths....


"Yet the Eternal Sailor Senshi still fly vast distances instead of teleport since it seems that Eternal Sailor Senshi speed is faster 'then' their teleportation, which can go from the edge of spacetime to the Solar System in moments."....That is not really concrete proof , it basically saying such character does not teleport and rather flies for a distance , therefore their flight is faster than their teleportation in that instance.


 
Though something I have to ask.

Why on earth are the other Sailor Senshi currently rated as Low 2-C? From what I've seen, only Eternal Sailor Moon, Chaos, and Cosmos seem to fulfill the requirements.
 
Thank you to everybody who have helped out with evaluating this.

I agree with Azathoth in the respect that I do not understand why the other Senshi are rated this high?
 
Well, in this case it would be prefered if we can get a scan of that @LordXcano
 
I don't read Sailor Moon I thought that was something Imperator mentioned to justify 2-C for all
 
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