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Rule Violations Reports - 59

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VenomElite's, Reclusive's, and Sera's solution that the Sonic fans in question simply make a serious effort to shape up and permanently leave our staff and other members alone, would obviously be best, yes.
 
Since my name was mentioned by DDM I try my best to keep the things I say off site, most of the things I say on Discord, especialy those scans were just messing around, I don't actualy mean those stuff, and even then from what I looked the only thing it would be ban worthy would be the slurs, but I keep them off site as much as I can since they are allowed there but not here

Also I don't harass Fuzzie, I just thought those arguments were bad and I was mocking them since It was allowed in the server, but when talking to him I respect him and everything, the same to Zastando, I am even friends with him and everything

All in all I don't think I should be banned from insults off site when they were allowed there and I try my hardest to not let that influence the wikia

Also what was done there wouln't even affected the wikia if it wasn't leaked

I shouldn't be insta banned when I try to keep my behavior the best in site and not let things off site affect the wikia me, plus most of those pics were monyhs old and I barely even do those things anymore
 
I suppose that is a valid point if true.
 
I also apologize if anyone got offended for anything I said, after some self reflection I realized that I shouldn't insult anyone even if off site, most of those examples were because either I was angry or frustated and the rules allowed that atitude.

So I apologize for that
 
Thank you, Theuser. Tbf you're not even bad even with those scans in mind (and are in general much easier to talk to than some of the others). Now if instead of defending themselves incessantly, Corgi and the rest would just agree to Venom's message (Medeus too, as Cal basically agreed on Discord) then we can finally move on. We've spent enough time on this.
 
I might as well be blunt and honest as well.

Neon is correct that I struggle with difficult mental issues that make it extremely hard to deal with my anger and I genuinely apologize for any distress ions due to lack of control over this.I would never EVER hate anyone over their views as that's pure ignorance and I really don't like that.It's just VSBW Game Sonic debating isn't healthy and causes me to get so angry and hostile what it's something I need control.I always intended that to be private vent to just let out petty anger to feel better.I even get into big debates and arguments with my freinds due to this problem however that's not an excuse and I will be genuinely seeking help with dealing with my problems with a professional.

Again,I'm sorry.
 
It's alright, Oblivion. You and User apologizing (especially in the latter's case as he does believe he isn't entirely guilty, which is true) is nonetheless a testament of your character. If we had more of this from staff and non-staff alike, the site would be a better place overall.
 
Apparently, from the time I took a break from this wiki to now, almost nothing changed and we're still acting as if the wiki is a war between two operating factions, the "People who come to the thread to say a bunch of crap, derail the conversation, draw out people's anger and then hide behind the baited people's even-worse response to feign innocence" Coalition, and the "People who fall for the bait and lash out, making things even worse for themselves a Foundation. And then those two come to war on the RVT thread trying to pretend they're not doing anything wrong.

I miss 2017. I'm too naive for my own good sometimes, thinking people who are over 17 can act in ways not to suggest they're half their real age.
 
I strongly agree with Bambu, Ven, and Reclusive. I'm sorry but just because Corgi hasn't done anything specifically ban-worthy doesn't mean he should get off entirely scott-free. His past and current actions have negatively impacted the other's behavior. DDM isn't not a bad person. He's genuinely very nice, easy to talk to, and a joy to be around. While he admittedly may take some things a bit to heart unnecessarily and misrepresent what some people have said as Agnaa recently pointed out, this is only because of Corgi/Void and the Sonic gang's attitude towards him and what they said off-site. None of you can pretend that someone saying bad things about you wouldn't affect your behavior somewhat.

Then we have Cal. Yes, Cal by his own admission has some biases and he thinks Sonic is high-balled. Does that mean he should be hated for disagreeing with you? No. He generally is a good guy and is just an admin trying to keep the place from being invaded by even more bad statistics (because as Antvasima said, our current stats are quite inflated).

Of course we can't forget about Sera. Sera is the key factor here, once she got involved, this began to get escalated. She would've never got involved if Corgi didn't get exposed joking about her personal life and later, be caught with his chumps talking about her appearance (despite never seeing her face before) and calling her a thot (despite being married). Now you can blame the person who leaked it all you want, the dude should've never said those things.

By her own words, the tension in the Sonic threads since then has been high. It's always the same group of people bickering back and forth. It's clear what got leaked and the tension being high has affected Medeus, affected Cal to the point of him basically giving up on Sonic, and affected Sera to the point of near-depression ...again. Not everyone is Matt people. Just because Matt has this idgaf attitude doesn't mean the rest of the staff involved do. They have feelings, their own personal problems, and struggles. Medeus is generally stressed out nowadays, I can tell whenever I talk with him on Versus Central, Sera has adult issues going on, and Cal is trying to focus on his education (same can be said for Matt really). Is it really worth making their lives harder over a b,he hedgehog on a power-scaling site?

This is why Bambu is spot on. What people say off site is exposed can have an effect on how someone sees you. You can't hide behind "it was a joke" or "it was off-site so I can do what I want", then turn around and get upset because a moderator decided to investigate if you're inciting drama off-site. That's childish. It's like being upset with the police for investigating a crime you committed after you got ratted out. Don't blame the rat, blame yourself. Take responsibility for your actions. Learn from the. Lue hedgehog you support. Because Sonic wouldn't condone this behavior.

Reclusive is also absolutely correct. Just leave each other alone and this won't have to continue any further. And I agree with Ven. Let's keep this non-personal and definitely leave Sera out of it. Don't bring her up. Don't even allude to her existence. We're tired of how this site has been continuously impacting her negatively. What happened in 2017 was partially her fault, but this here? She was dragged in and she never wanted to be.

In resume

Involved Sonic Supporters: Leave those staff alone, like Ven and Rec said. They've got enough problems to juggle. I don't care if it's your server, someone else's server, a YouTube video, Instagram, or on the freaking Moon. Don't go bad-mouthing people off site as that creates tension on threads and prevents anything productive from getting done. This has been proven to be disruptive several times in the past and is negatively affecting them, that's why they're trying to get you banned (duh).

Involved Staff: Chill out for a bit. Don't let your personal problems get someone you don't like banned, as much of a d-word they may be. It's not worth worsening your stress, because as Agnaa said, he didn't exactly do anything ban worthy and you are exaggerating some things. Stay off Sonic threads for a while like Ven suggested. There's plenty mods that can look over it and see if they're legit. It's their job to review CRTs after all.
 
Sorry Kep, but the only person "coming to threads to say a bunch of crap, derail the conversation, draw out people's anger, etc." is Matt. Cal and Medeus have never done that, neither have I or Dragon and we're the other four mods part of this whole thing. Your comment really didn't help anything either. It was arguably just as unproductive as the comments Matt makes on threads, which you just spoke out against.
 
Off site things should be handled offsite by off site mods

On site things can be handled on site by onsite mods

Why can't it just be like this? If you see someone insulting you somewhere else just ignore it. It's all sticks and stones.
 
And I didn't claim Cal and Dragonmaster and etc. did it. I respect both of those huge friends who made this wiki worth experiencing and staying in for me.

This entire thread is an unproductive mess, all because people decided to be a bunch of crazy assholes. Some people here are undeniably unfit to be staff members in my view if this is their reaction.

Simply put, the wiki has decayed a lot ever since my entrance. I legitimately feel a lot less attached to it than I originally did. I've literally been attacked by Youtubers with hundreds of thousands of subscribers on public livestreams, for minutes straight, and I still talk to those same Youtubers as half-friends.

There is simply no maturity taking place here, in my view. People need to grow a skin.
 
The fact that this is still going on and that people are bending over backwards to defend harassment at all costs makes me sick. What exactly does giving everyone perpetual endless chances solve? It makes you seem nicer and kinder to others? Gives you a feeling of moral superiority? Or is it because it seems too mean to ban a troll for trolling or a harasser for harassment?

You'd think after years VBW would have got more mature with this but no.
 
About the Discord points; a LOT of those are undeniably worth of further attention and are horrible. A good portion, however, are just....insults or something. Insults shouldn't be worth anything. I know some people might not take to being insulted that well, but unless we're growing systematic hate/systematic wiki destabilization posts, we shouldn't care. Simple as that. You're not even there to receive the insults.
 
@Kep

There's no maturity? Ven made the most mature comment on the entire thread that no one seems to be listening to. That's not our fault that instead of making peace, some decided to just defend their actions. User and Oblivion made peace. How is that not mature?
 
I obviously agree with Pritti and I think everyone adding their two cents about the maturity of people on the site and comments of "grow some skin" / "it's just sticks and stones" are not helping the situation at all. Especially when you have no idea what other people are going through. Not everyone is savage like Matt.
 
I don't think it's serious from a wiki-wide objective standpoint myself and you have a point about the wikia's decay. That's why I'm not supporting a ban here. Keep in mind that if Void would've just agreed to my man-to-man request instead of defending his off-site actions and prolonging this thread, we would've all be done with this by now. You see where I'm getting at? It strikes me as if he's just going to be uncompromising all throughout. That will cause nothing but more problems in the future. However, I understand context and I believe he just simply didn't read it. So I'll patiently wait.
 
After looking it over, I'm starting to think not every user I linked was all that bad at least based on the scans I listed. I'm glad TheUser and Oblivion apologized. However, I could only share what was given to me, and didn't have enough time or energy to organize everything as others have said. As well as single out specific scans of the more ban worthy stuff. But as I said, there's apparently a bunch of other stuff, and there are legit scans of people mentioning plots against the wiki. I can agree it's best discussed privately with Bambu and the HR group some more before taking action, but I'm consistently told there's a lot more too this.

Anyway, I do apologize for everything here, and I'm going to take a break from some of the bigger Sonic revisions until the main issue is resolved aside from making the Staff only thread addressing MaginaryWorld and/or 2-B stuff which I was asked to make. But I legit felt the need to get the information off my chest before it ate me alive.

I also do agree that it isn't ban worthy to simply have strong political and/or religions/spiritual view points, but being an extremest is a different story. And I agree 100% with Matt that harassment is never something to be ignored. Last time I'm posting here on the issue for now.
 
Sera EX said:
It's alright, Oblivion. You and User apologizing (especially in the latter's case as he does believe he isn't entirely guilty, which is true) is nonetheless a testament of your character. If we had more of this from staff and non-staff alike, the site would be a better place overall.
Click to expand...
Thank you Sera.

And I apologize for my outbursts it's something I do need to control and will get help with it.
 
It all just makes me so disappointed that people are so reluctant to take action. VBW has always moved with the velocity of a tectonic plate with people seemingly incapable to differenciate someone being harsh and aggressive against one's arguments in a thread than someone name-caling, throwing slurs, harassing and ridiculing others and personally attacking them often.

God forbid people grow a little bit of a thick skin and accept that not everyone is enforced by law to act nice to them and agree.

In fact, the ultimate "Let's Ban Someone" strategy in VBW has nothing to do with gathering evidence of harmful behavior and posting it. It has to do with acting passive-aggressive on threads until your opponent snaps, at which point you immediately go to RV and feign that you're hurt and distraught. And then the person will get banned for "hurting your feelings" pretty much.

I also greatly enjoy being used as a perpetual shield by these people ("W-Well, Matt said my argument was stupid so it's fair game!"). Like, Jesus Friggin Christ on a Segway. Can't people tell the obvious difference between actual harrassment and just being a bit harsh?

I just get disappointed, really... You'd think after so many experiences with horrible drama the VBW staff would be more quick to recognize it and deal with it before it spreads like a cancer
 
Well, I think that it seems best if the HR group tries to take a look at all of the available evidence. What Medeus showed on its own was likely largely not all that bad, but it is a very different issue if there actually is a coordinated effort to harrass others or destabilise the wiki.

That some of the people in question have apologised and seem willing to shape up their behaviour also speaks for some leniency.

Anyway, Matthew is obviously correct about that there is a major difference between just being blunt/rude and genuinely harrassing others.
 
Why on earth is an RVR still being used to discuss all of this, and not a Staff Discussion thread?

Why on earth are Staff members openly lamenting that evidence of breaking rules on-site is needed to ban users, and lamenting that impulsive 'well we just KNOW it's cancerous' reasoning cannot be used to nuke persons they disagree with?

Why on earth are people using so many ignorant appeals to emotion to try and argue their side?

Good lord this is a mess, make a Staff Only thread, go discuss it, obviously Staff need to re-evaluate the rules before doing anything here since nobody can even agree on what needs to be done; that in and of itself is proof no bans should be issued since no unified rule list can be pointed to that proves a ban OUGHT to be handed out in this situation.

Go from there, evaluate in another thread, and move on as necessary.

Good lord.
 
I also disagree about that the wiki is genuinely decaying. I think that the reliability of the content is largely gradually improving over time. However, several of our staff members are increasingly busy with schoolwork and/or other real life concerns, which leaves me more stressed out from trying to take care of many things at once as best as I can manage.
 
I dunno why but reading Xulrev comment make me kind of mad, maybe because the good lord and why on earth

Sorry but i really want to say this
 
Yes.
 
I am getting a little bit lost right now, is anyone getting banned or are the staff simply going to discuss the rules? I already said everything I needed to say at least about myself. Also I will be inactive for 7 hours so hoppefuly no big action against me is nade during it, not that I think it will after apologizing
 
Antvasima said:
I also disagree about that the wiki is genuinely decaying. I think that the reliability of the content is largely gradually improving over time. However, several of our staff members are increasingly busy with schoolwork and/or other real life concerns, which leaves me more stressed out from trying to take care of many things at once as best as I can manage.
Click to expand...
The reliability of the ratings is being traded in for a significantly larger amount of drama. Less than one year ago, there were only 26 RVT Threads. When I joined in 2017, exactly two years ago, there were only 18 of them or less, from what I recall.

In less than one year, there have been as many RVT threads made as the amount of RVT threads made between 2015 and 2018. Let that sink in.
 
Well, much of that was because we used to be harrassed by fanatic trolls all the time, but they have repeatedly told me that they have lost interest, so I hope for the best in that regard.

I would much prefer less drama though, yes. My social skills, sense of judgement, and available time are not good enough to deal with it very well.
 
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