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I did not claim anything. I know we are past this report but wanted to make that clear.
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Rule Violation Reports (New forum)
- Thread starter Antvasima
- Start date
I did not claim anything. I know we are past this report but wanted to make that clear.
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Ah, my bad. It was presented as such, so I apologize for my misunderstanding it. (I think it's clear by now, my reading comprehension is lacking)
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Well it's technically not new information.
This still ultimately comes down to whether or not you believe they chose alternate translations because they thought it was more accurate or because they wanted to manipulate the results.
The idea that MTL doesn't suggest these alternatives at all was already disproved in Astral's appeal.
I'm still of the opinion we can't prove bad intention here, and shouldn't extend another 3 month ban based on a hunch.
MeiouHades
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I said I wasn't gonna comment here but I just saw this, and wanted to offer some correction here. These two threads are nowhere near the same thing. The former was a spite downgrade, a poorly-researched, rushed thread that OP admitted they made out of anger. The latter was a well-researched thread that Profectus and I worked hard on, got help from multiple translators, refined arguments by asking other people who have expertise in conceptual manipulation as well as people who are even more knowledgeable on Sailor Moon, before publishing it. Furthermore, the latter was also extensively debated and looked over by evaluating staff and came to a very conclusive end, so it is by no means the same as that. It was a well-intended, well-researched, and a good revision (and I am more than happy to debate this privately if you're not convinced, because my arguments there were 100% correct and convincing).
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Slight correction: I said I released it out of anger. I did not make it out of anger because this was something I had in the back burner for a long while, ever since my Toki Toki thread. I have history of being skeptical towards the time room.
MeiouHades
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Be that as it may, the point here is that the two threads are not remotely similar.
EldemadeDityjon
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Link me to where he proved that. I’m really curious—when did MTL ever suggest that people should add translation notes and pretend they were done by a fan translation? When did MTL ever suggest that you shouldn’t admit when a mistake is made?
Astral didn’t want me to get the meaning from the translators on this wiki. He was actively trying to give answers himself despite not knowing Japanese, when he could have just waited for the TL helpers to confirm the meanings here. If you seriously think it's not being dishonest and trying to cover up his mess. I don't know what to tell you.
I don’t mind him getting unbanned, but seriously, I don’t like how you’re making it sound like everything was MTL’s fault.
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That they passed off MTL as their own is the reason for their initial 3-month ban.
The extension is over whether or not they did so maliciously to manipulate our statistics or just because they wanted to pretend to be able to speak the language and/or use MTL for speed rather than wait for Translation Helpers.
That is to say, everything you're saying is correct, but not relevant to the extension specifically.
Udlmaster
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Hellscream in the DOOM cosmology revision thread is refusing to drop the irrelevant personal beef he seems to have with me despite being directly told by an Admin, along with me, to not delve into private matters.
After I've repeatedly told him to drop the topic and that if he wants to continue it, he should do so on my message wall, but he's continuing and won't drop the subject.
After I've repeatedly told him to drop the topic and that if he wants to continue it, he should do so on my message wall, but he's continuing and won't drop the subject.
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I've already given a verbal warning to drop the matter on the thread. We shall see if it's followed.
Udlmaster
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I would also like to make a report against Baldiback3162 based on vandalism of other wikis to support baseless assertions and arguments on this wiki.
I'll copy and paste my response from the thread since it covers the entire thing with evidence and receipts;
When I looked up the quote, It took me to "The Void" page on DOOM wiki;
You will immediately notice no sources for this, but more importantly, who made this page and wrote out this information and added to it:
Baldiback3162 in particular has actually vandalised the "Book of the Seraphs" page and made up text, saying ", with the Void being completely non-physical" when this is the original text.
He also added, baselessly, the "non-physical, non-existent, dimensionless, formless" to the Void page.
He adds to the Doom Slayer page "After Doomguy uses Divine machine, he achieves a power that is beyond differentiation, changeless, indivisible, ineffable, self-sufficient and completely unsurpassable"
And lastly, a vandalism of the "Story of the Sentinels" page, replacing "move through space and time" to "access all of space and time"
All of the above were changed made the in past week, showing vandalism based on this thread to support unfounded arguments. And while Dicelium doesn't seem to be maliciously editing other wiki's pages, Baldiback3162 clearly is.
I'll copy and paste my response from the thread since it covers the entire thing with evidence and receipts;
I would also like to draw people's attention to some off-site changes made by the people involved in this thread, as I was quoted a section from the "Doom" fandom wiki.
When I looked up the quote, It took me to "The Void" page on DOOM wiki;
You will immediately notice no sources for this, but more importantly, who made this page and wrote out this information and added to it:
Baldiback3162 in particular has actually vandalised the "Book of the Seraphs" page and made up text, saying ", with the Void being completely non-physical" when this is the original text.
He also added, baselessly, the "non-physical, non-existent, dimensionless, formless" to the Void page.
He adds to the Doom Slayer page "After Doomguy uses Divine machine, he achieves a power that is beyond differentiation, changeless, indivisible, ineffable, self-sufficient and completely unsurpassable"
And lastly, a vandalism of the "Story of the Sentinels" page, replacing "move through space and time" to "access all of space and time"
All of the above were changed made the in past week, showing vandalism based on this thread to support unfounded arguments. And while Dicelium doesn't seem to be maliciously editing other wiki's pages, Baldiback3162 clearly is.
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That's a big yikes from me. This is some Ninja Gaiden wiki level vandalism for the sake of battleboarding. I'm all for a permaban given this was recent.
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Not going to evaluate the evidence due to a lack of spare time, but I want to present a framework for the other staff who will, as Strym asked off-site whether this is permabannable or not.
I think we had a similar case in the past, where a user tried to get something changed using a good source, we appealed to Wikipedia, and then they edited Wikipedia with that good source, then tried again. While they weren't upfront about editing it themselves, their changes had a factual basis, and they followed Wikipedia's standards when making those changes.
The main factors I'd want people to look at when deciding whether editing other websites should be a rule violation here are:
I think we had a similar case in the past, where a user tried to get something changed using a good source, we appealed to Wikipedia, and then they edited Wikipedia with that good source, then tried again. While they weren't upfront about editing it themselves, their changes had a factual basis, and they followed Wikipedia's standards when making those changes.
The main factors I'd want people to look at when deciding whether editing other websites should be a rule violation here are:
- Whether it falls more on the end of being a factual change, or a bullshit change.
- Whether they're more on the end of full transparency about them editing it, or they're lying and trying to hide their involvement.
- Whether they're more on the end of studiously following that site's standards, or recklessly ignoring them.
Udlmaster
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It was rewriting the text from being factual to Scaler buzzword garbage.
Lying by omission as they even linked to "The Void" page in the OP which was entirely fabricated.
And to make things worse, the changes were all made within the past week and after he made his thread.
Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
VS Battles
Joke Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
Calculation Group
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It does read more like heavy handed powerscaling jargon than what a writer might produce, but still, I'd like to ask @Baldiback3162 whether they have a source for those changes.
If there isn't actual evidence of these claims, and this vandalism of another wiki was done just to support a CRT (this itself is strange, we never regard another wiki as being a source), then yeah, I'd sign off on a permanent ban. This level of dishonesty would be miles beyond acceptable.
If there isn't actual evidence of these claims, and this vandalism of another wiki was done just to support a CRT (this itself is strange, we never regard another wiki as being a source), then yeah, I'd sign off on a permanent ban. This level of dishonesty would be miles beyond acceptable.
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If the user attempted to refer to their own fabricated statements as a source for a CRT, then I would consider that as grounds for a ban.
Re5yh
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Permaban is good, because that guy want to fake everything.
ExcelsisBerny
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I’d like to report the user @Chezztercakey for repeatedly stealing content 1:1 from other people’s blogs and making posts pushing arguments that aren’t theirs, using scans that don’t belong to them either about verses that they obviously do not know at all.
You can see a small list of the many times this user has done the same thing across other wikis, and here on this wiki, they tried it with a blog about the Nasuverse cosmology, which they later attempted to delete to cover up the evidence (you can check the edit history).
You can see a small list of the many times this user has done the same thing across other wikis, and here on this wiki, they tried it with a blog about the Nasuverse cosmology, which they later attempted to delete to cover up the evidence (you can check the edit history).
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While scans aren't really something everyone has copyright over, simply copy/pasting other people's blogs without crediting them would basically come off as plagiarism.
And yeah, Baldiback is basically doing the infamous Dragon Ball Heroes requotes/fabrications to get characters upgraded to 1-A. And thus, this is straight up permaban level.
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- Thread starter
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I also agree about us permanently banning Baldiback.
What other issues do we currently need to urgently solve here? Should we unblock Astral_Trinity439 for example, and if so, what should we state as the official unbanning reason?
Also, what should we do regarding the situation surrounding Iamunanimousinthat?
What other issues do we currently need to urgently solve here? Should we unblock Astral_Trinity439 for example, and if so, what should we state as the official unbanning reason?
Also, what should we do regarding the situation surrounding Iamunanimousinthat?
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Before finalizing any ban, we need to verify that fabricated "quotes" were in fact used as justification. I'll double check the thread soon.
Udlmaster
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In the "More Statements" section, he links to one of the pages he vandalised:
The second one links to "Codex: Book of the Seraphs" which he vandalised:
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Im really sorry for this problem, "After Doomguy uses Divine machine, he achieves a power that is beyond differentiation, changeless, indivisible, ineffable, self-sufficient and completely unsurpassable" i've added this part to joke people, but i completely forget to edit it back
As i've said before, im really sorry for this mistake, i can replace these wiki statements with actual game codex statements and i will do it
(everyone can make mistakes)
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What I mean is if he actually quoted "with Void being completely non-physical" being from the actual transcript in his forum posts.
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- Thread starter
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Looking at the thread, there weren't any claims that X statement says blah for non-physical voids or the like.Thank you for helping out.
While Baldiback3162 didn't provide false quotes in the thread, Baldiback3162 did change the transcripts that everyone was using for reference.
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Void being non-phyiscal and non-existent was provided by actual game codex (as Hellscream showed someone of them, and i hv more of them), so i'll use actual game codex instead of wiki, my bad.
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The issue is that you changed the existing transcripts to add in your editorial line. Were you unaware they were direct transcripts of the game codex?
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Uh no, i didn't know, i thought that they was just fanmade stuff not original stuff like game codex so i didn't find any problem to edit them.
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I made the void page over a year ago because it had no page yet was a very important structure to the franchise. (Copy pasted what I had written in 2019 when I first got into scaling).
I carry the belief that such pages are not material to be used for scaling, as at best it is a paraphrase of the official material, with the latter being the only valid source. (such as codex entires on the wiki but only if they are unaltered).
I hyperlinked linked the page to the codex page as when I created the void page I summarized all the mentions of the void and didn't check to see if the content had been altered after the initial creation.
on a bit of an unrelated note, I frankly don't see the point of this edit when the actual official statement's indirect meaning was clear enough. The information edited that was relevant to the thread was not new information, so that aspect of the proposal should still be as valid as before these changes.
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I support a permanent ban for Baldiback, especially since a major part of their justification is that they did it as a joke, which, at best, is just admitting to blatantly vandalizing another wiki for no good reason.
I also consider it unlikely someone knowledgeable on the verse wouldn't know a major description like that is from a verbatim transcript, and if they're not knowledgeable on the verse, why would they be making significant edits to any descriptions at all, let alone be actively involved in scaling the verse?
I also consider it unlikely someone knowledgeable on the verse wouldn't know a major description like that is from a verbatim transcript, and if they're not knowledgeable on the verse, why would they be making significant edits to any descriptions at all, let alone be actively involved in scaling the verse?
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Iamunanimous:
- Multiple Translations: essentially the same opinion as Bambu. I don’t see this crossing into RVR territory. I think he should stick to one interpretation, but I don’t see how it could’ve been from a malicious pov, no.
- Spite DB: Hades Quote: “You can see clearly here that this was some sort of "revenge" here because some of their statements were rejected for not being explicit enough, which they claim here was the reason they made the DB downgrade thread”.
Spite is creating threads purely out of revenge. Here, he’s taking something he was told in X thread and applying it to Y thread. I am by no means saying he correctly did so, but I think he seems to genuinely believe there is fault in the DB scaling. Now, is it coincidence that he suddenly decided to do this on a series his opposition are known to support, probably not. At the same time though, I’d consider it spite if he genuinely believed his argument was wrong, and knowing it was wrong, chose to pursue it solely to get back at the opposition. Otherwise, he’s a user of this site like me and you, and he can argue in favor/against as he pleases. - Poor Behavior: Same as bambu, I agree with a formal warning for both parties, and I honestly think that’s enough.
- I don’t even know why he’s using other wikis as proof in the first place, but needless to say I think it’s fairly obvious this was done (1) with a lack of transparency (2) To include battleboarding bs. I support a ban of at least a year (considering he’s apologetic) up to permanent as others seem to prefer.
- Reviewing the (now deleted) content of that thread, he seems to say: “also, just know that most of the blog was written by me, only the stuff about the Earth and its textures (and a very lil bit of the Imaginary Number Space and The Outer Gods was written by someone else, that being GZ, so i like to give them credit for the scans and stuff….
I didn’t see the actual quora blog that the thread is claimed to be copied from, in the report, so I may be missing some context. For the record, I don’t think the fact that the scans themselves are quora links proves he copied someone 1:1. I will tag @Chezztercakey to clarify. (please refer to the report against you in the page preceding this one).
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Do you have thoughts on Astral's appeal?
Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
VS Battles
Joke Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
Calculation Group
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With further developments with Baldiblack's case... I think we can conclusively confirm that the accused actions were done in the way originally described, and though an apology was given it is not a total one, in that it attempts to play off these edits as a joke, which I find hard to believe in earnest. If we are to accept that an apology is a significant thing, even with the above in mind, I could compromise off of permanent, but I'd want an extremely long ban- two years, specifically. Given my doubts with the apology, I'm also still in favor of a permanent ban.
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He admitted to not reading any part of the franchise, so im not even sure how he would be able to construct the arguments by himself.
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Just for the sake of being forgiving, which I consider a virtue, I'd also be fine with a year or two instead given they at least attempted to apologize.
However, a very long ban of some kind I would definitely consider the bare minimum here.
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Just a small detail, there are pages that are basically intended to be nothing but 1:1 quotes and it's simply faster. But I do agree pulling up a YouTube video or something where someone is just reading the log entries from the actual game out loud is better. Though in Baldi's case, he straight up edited pages to where quotes contradict the word for word quotes from the game; which is not good by any means.
Udlmaster
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It's related as they use a page they vandalised as "additional statements".
They themselves used the word "Statement" and then went onto change the page, knowing the Page was meant to be a transcript of the codex, adding in his own headcanon to the page he's using a source AND statement is just dishonest at best.
Then why did you put them in the "additional statements" section if you thought it was free to edit them?
I feel like this is a fundamental thing that you don't edit statements.
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As I just said, i didn't know that wiki was used as a transcript of codex.
