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I personally wouldn't mind to at least issue a temporary warning ban of a month or so, so Strym takes this issue seriously, but it depends on what other staff members here think.
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It's just dark humor bro. Just edgy jokes.
So are we going to talk about Fuji's rather spicy take toward Straight people or...?
I was made aware of this before. It's supposed to be an ironic reversal of the homophobic and transphobic rants people have made in the past
So are we going to talk about Fuji's rather spicy take toward Straight people or...?
Oh so when people joke about Trans people it's "offensive" and "transphobic" but when it comes to straight people it's "Just a joke" and "ironic"It's just dark humor bro. Just edgy jokes.
I am certain that Fujiwara was trying to be ironic regarding the way that she thinks that many heterosexual cisgendered people in the United States consider and treat transgendered people, in a reverse-mirror manner, but the comment was still inappropriately and unnecessarily controversial and toxic, so I deleted it earlier.
So are we going to talk about Fuji's rather spicy take toward Straight people or...?
Yes, but it is still very unnecessary, as it is stirring up controversy for the sake of controversy.I was made aware of this before. It's supposed to be an ironic reversal of the homophobic and transphobic rants people have made in the past
Why don't you make a "continuous effort" to actually get rid of the rampant transphobia on this site and I'll consider it.Yes, but it is still very unnecessary, as it is stirring up controversy for the sake of controversy.
Fujiwara, you need to make a continuous effort to shape up your behaviour when you visit this community.
So, this is obviously a joke on the kinds of rants people will make on transgender/homosexual people, yes. It's also incredibly short-sighted to make such a joke in the context that it was used in, and was evidently made with full awareness of and intention to rile up drama and hostility to the extent that any such comment of this nature would be report-worthy.
So are we going to talk about Fuji's rather spicy take toward Straight people or...?
No, of course it is not. I've made it very clear that I also believe Strym has committed a ban-worthy offense. I'm advocating for a ban for both you and Strym, as I have expressed - because whatever comparison you might make between you two to justify yourself, the fact is that you have continuously and knowingly caused problems for other members and the site as a whole that we have the right to take action on.So transphobia, a widespread form of bigotry that has killed and maimed numerous innocent people, something I have bled and almost died over, is less of an offense than cisphobia, a thing which has harmed nobody on account of not actually existing. Cool.
I don't know if we could ban her in good conscience, considering the entire situation. Then again, I'm frankly overall neutral here, and prefer to defer to our rules.So, this is obviously a joke on the kinds of rants people will make on transgender/homosexual people, yes. It's also incredibly short-sighted to make such a joke in the context that it was used in, and was evidently made with full awareness of and intention to rile up drama and hostility to the extent that any such comment of this nature would be report-worthy.
I believe we have talked in the past about the straw breaking the camel's back, and I'm concerned that I think this is exactly that. Fujiwara should know better than to rile up hostility, again, after having been warned about it so routinely. I would support a short-term ban to make this matter clear.
I still stand by a ban of some length.snip
I agree with this, both forms of bigotry are equally offensive; but another major difference is that one was spoken publicly on this forum which is usually our job to police while the other was on an unrelated Discord server which usually isn't entirely our job to police albeit as DarkGrath said not an excuse to ignore common sense.No, of course it is not. I've made it very clear that I also believe Strym has committed a ban-worthy offense. I'm advocating for a ban for both you and Strym, as I have expressed - because whatever comparison you might make between you two to justify yourself, the fact is that you have continuously and knowingly caused problems for other members and the site as a whole that we have the right to take action on.
I am transgender too, Fujiwara. I know the kind of shit our community deals with first-hand. I know what you're doing is a response to an injustice, and I don't think poorly of you for acting in your conscience. Knowing that doesn't change what I have said thus far. You still need to shape up.
I genuinely believe that nobody would point these senseless, harmless jokes out if it was any other person, but since it's Fuji it gives people conniptions.Oh so when people joke about Trans people it's "offensive" and "transphobic" but when it comes to straight people it's "Just a joke" and "ironic"
I see I see
To be crystal clear I'd be banning neither of them if the decision were up to me, but if we insist on one for the record then let it be short.Yes, I think that DarkGrath has the right idea here. Strym has told me in private that he feels sorry about what he did and wants to apologise to Fujiwara and the other people he wronged here, but he still needs some kind of consequence (ban) for the sum total transgressions that he performed. They were made offsite, yes, but even so, they were too severe to ignore.
And Fujiwara deliberately attempted to stir up as much toxicity and controversy as possible here for the sake melodrama and dissent in our community, which only causes damage to the cause of increased tolerance towards transgender people in general, even though it is ridiculous to think that she is genuinely a reverse-bigot.
This is obviously supposed to be ironic, but has has no place on our forum. I think a final warning to refrain from crass jokes would be suitable here. I can’t support a ban in good conscience considering the circumstances.
So are we going to talk about Fuji's rather spicy take toward Straight people or...?
I personally could not support a ban for Fuji, but I think at least 2 months for Strym would be good. But I don’t think it should be just a ban, I’d at least like to see some form of growth or at least an effort that he tries to refrain from this behavior in general. As evidenced by the thread, when things started getting worse for him he started grabbing screenshots of other people attempting to throw them under the bus and slander them in a “If you take them out they gotta go with me!” way that I think is rather indicative to his mindset and behavior.Well, the problem is that if we only punish Strym here, many of our members will perceive it as the reverse form of double-standard, but I do agree about that the circumstances are stressful for Fujiwara.
Maybe a 1 or 2 months ban for Strym and 2 weeks for Fujiwara, so they each take the issue of not continuing to behave like this seriously at least? Would that be acceptable?
You’re literally neglecting the entire reason this is a problem.I mirror her thoughts that this weird double standard people have of “Oh it’s okay to make transphobic “jokes” but making “straighrphobic jokes is bigotry and should be punished!” Shows a clear bias towards how people see Fujiwara and trans people in general.
An apology is a start, whether or not people except it is up to them, but I think people would see him in a better light if he came back from his ban and was making a real attempt to adjust his behavior.Well, as I mentioned, Strym has expressed the willingness to apologise.
I think that permanent thread bans and deleted offensive posts for members who severely abuse that thread seems very reasonable.We could also reach a compromise and thread ban Fuji from the Pet Peeves thread for a period of time, given that she has misused it a few times now.
I have my own personal thoughts on our off site policies, but I have neglected to bring it up because that is more of a policy thing than something I’d discuss in the RVR. Im willing to continue this in dms, but here? No thank you.You’re literally neglecting the entire reason this is a problem.
Transphobic “jokes” aren’t tolerated on-site. Cis-phobic “jokes” are’t tolerated on-site.
Discrimination in general isn’t tolerated on-site.
Link me one instance of blatant transphobia on the forum, within vsb jurisdiction, that wasn’t thoroughly reprimanded.
Let me use a metaphor I used in the past: if I commit a crime in the United States, and runoff to some other country… lest that country has a extradition treaty, I can’t and won’t be prosecuted.
You all keep making this an issue centered around morality when, in reality, it’s an issue centered around authority.
Well, authority, including our own, should ideally be based on ethical norms and conduct, but I think that you make good points here.You’re literally neglecting the entire reason this is a problem.
Transphobic “jokes” aren’t tolerated on-site. Cis-phobic “jokes” are’t tolerated on-site.
Discrimination in general isn’t tolerated on-site.
Link me one instance of blatant transphobia on the forum, within vsb jurisdiction, that wasn’t thoroughly reprimanded.
Let me use a metaphor I used in the past: if I commit a crime in the United States, and runoff to some other country… lest that country has a extradition treaty, I can’t and won’t be prosecuted. We are not discussing wether or not the crime itself is actually a crime, we are debating about whether the country I ran off to can take action against that crime.
You all keep making this an issue centered around morality when, in reality, it’s an issue centered around authority.
Again.Also, given that several other members here that I know of who are also transgender seem to be treated much better than Fujiwara, I don't think that we can sweepingly label all problems she gets into as due to bigotry.
I don't know what you mean by this. StrymULTRA's comments have, as far as I can see, been treated as more severe by every staff member who has evaluated this situation. The staff members who have advocated against Strym's comments have either advocated less against yours, or just not advocated against yours, and the staff members who have not advocated against Strym's comments have not advocated against yours. Strym's comments are evidently being treated harsher than yours.I made that comment precisely because I wanted to see how "heterophobia" would be treated compared to transphobia, and needless to say my suspicions of one being treated more harshly than the other were proven true. That is a problem, and it is more than a little concerning that me pointing it out is more of a problem than the core issue itself.
My mind still hasn't changed.@DarkDragonMedeus @DarkGrath @LephyrTheRevanchist @Maverick_Zero_X @Deagonx @Propellus
If you guys have any changed opinions deriving from Aly's post above, I encourage you to speak on it. Silence will be taken as remaining true to your prior positions.
I would advocate for lenient bans for both. I would prefer to have this be short-term see if the issues brought up here will improve after that time, in place of a harsher punishment we might normally apply in a different context. A month for Strym and 2 weeks for Fuji I believe would be acceptable.DarkGrath:
For how long do you think that we should ban Strym and Fujiwara respectively?