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Roronoa Zoro vs Zaraki Kenpachi (One piece vs Bleach)

XDragnoir said:
I am sure Asura already includes Goken in it.

Anyway, they can't oneshot each other, so what else they have outside of AP? It seems Kenny has the Stamina advantage
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Zoro has observation haki which gives him way better senses and range, skill is debatable I can't say who's better, kenpachi should be able to one shot with two hands and outlast with endurance.
 
I suggest moving this to the Fun and Games thread, as Kenpachi is going to soul crush Zoro the instant he gets even kilometers of range of him. Bleach soul hax ranges into the hundreds of thousands even at a base captain level, and verse equalisation is going to do absolutely nothing to remedy that.

That said, here are some considerations for Kenpachi.

Kenpachi does not have a skill disadvantage here, and saying that he powers through his fights with an AP/Durability advantage is disingenuous to say the very least. Even the SS key fought 3 captains and faced no disadvantage via techniques, and with no sword training later fought Nnoitra, who had twice the swords Zoro has and faced no disadvantage in the technique department. Tosen commented that he had the "senses of a beast" as he figured out his bankai and was managing to dodge attacks in complete sensory deprivation, which goes against the "bumbling oaf who powers through with AP/Durability" picture being painted here.

Neither does he have a stamina disadvantage. Firstly captain class fighters can keep fighting for 3 days straight. Unohana kept both healing Kenpachi and fighting, and while Kenpachi himself kept getting stomped because of technique/AP Unohana was able to keep going. At the same time Renji and Ichigo were also capable of fighting for 3 days. It's pretty safe to assume a normal captain can fight for multiple days, and Kenpachi himself has far higher stamina. Soul reapers in general have superhuman stamina/endurance compared to humans, and Kenpachi has much higher stamina compared to that.

Endurance wise too Kenpachi isn't exactly lagging behind anyone, because every instance we've seen Kenpachi fight he's pretty much never faltered in the face of injuries. He starts his battle with Tosen and Komamura with multiple stab and slash wounds and still manages to beat Tosen, Ichigo noted that he doesn't feel pain and was showing no signs of slowing down in face of injury, Nnoitra himself put multiple holes in Kenpachi, and a lot of other injuries, and Kenpachi still didn't even slow down or get a drop in AP (because he was still managing to get through his hierro). I'd actually say that Kenpachi might have an advantage here, because while Zoro can certainly keep going with massive injuries, he still becomes weaker via exhaustion. Kenpachi, and all soul reapers, only get exhausted when their reiatsu runs out, and thus while Zoro is going to face exhaustion before being half dead, Kenpachi isn't going to get exhausted till he is half dead. (I say half dead because due to the power of anime and plot both are essentially unkillable in their verses).


All that aside, since these two are basically equal in everything except AP (if we disregard soul hax, thus please move this to fun and games), this is a simple AP battle. Since this isn't an actual versus thread, you guys can decide who has the AP advantage as neither is going to stop till they're dead.
 
Sorry but you are underestimating Zoro… I like kenpachi a lot… I think if he had Haki he would be superior to Zoro and Zoro would need to fight an uphill battle but

first endurance while kenpachi has insane endurance, Zoro has Insanely Op endurance… what I mean by that is that the more he takes damage the stronger he becomes, literally couldn’t even scratch someone no matter how many times he attacked to then being so damaged to the point of being in near death state and instead was able to one shot him as it was nothing. It’s stated that Zoro lost 3 liters of blood while fighting mihawk and later 5 Liters on arlong park, that’s literally losing every single blood from his body and still being alive… I mean Zoro is fighting Death himself with his willpower and keeps winning… Link and Link

I never saw kenpachi ever having feats like that.

Durability - Zoro has advantage as his stat amps increase his Dura

Speed - Zoro is easily above with speed, techniques that speed amps to the point of nearly getting blitzed to later being full blitz

Skill - Zoro has takes that easily… I mean just read the profile of Zoro’s intelligence section

Range - Zoro takes that as well not only that but they are wide aoe air slashes which he spams and uses them effectively close range, mid range and long range

Sensing - I mean Zoro absolutely destroyed in this… using pre timeskip Zoro sensing would be fair.

AP - Zoro one shots island lvl characters with Haki… Damage boost… Zoro one shots people that before with his regular slashes couldn’t even scratch the person no matter how many times he attack but after using Damage boost, one shotted him. I see Zoro having the ap advantage plus can amp more with Asura and gorilla techniques which is kinda overkill

overall I see Zoro winning this low diff (profile) or high diff (My headcanon of Kenpachi’s capabilities)
 
KarematsuShinjuu said:
I suggest moving this to the Fun and Games thread, as Kenpachi is going to soul crush Zoro the instant he gets even kilometers of range of him. Bleach soul hax ranges into the hundreds of thousands even at a base captain level, and verse equalisation is going to do absolutely nothing to remedy that.

That said, here are some considerations for Kenpachi.

Kenpachi does not have a skill disadvantage here, and saying that he powers through his fights with an AP/Durability advantage is disingenuous to say the very least. Even the SS key fought 3 captains and faced no disadvantage via techniques, and with no sword training later fought Nnoitra, who had twice the swords Zoro has and faced no disadvantage in the technique department. Tosen commented that he had the "senses of a beast" as he figured out his bankai and was managing to dodge attacks in complete sensory deprivation, which goes against the "bumbling oaf who powers through with AP/Durability" picture being painted here.

Neither does he have a stamina disadvantage. Firstly captain class fighters can keep fighting for 3 days straight. Unohana kept both healing Kenpachi and fighting, and while Kenpachi himself kept getting stomped because of technique/AP Unohana was able to keep going. At the same time Renji and Ichigo were also capable of fighting for 3 days. It's pretty safe to assume a normal captain can fight for multiple days, and Kenpachi himself has far higher stamina. Soul reapers in general have superhuman stamina/endurance compared to humans, and Kenpachi has much higher stamina compared to that.

Endurance wise too Kenpachi isn't exactly lagging behind anyone, because every instance we've seen Kenpachi fight he's pretty much never faltered in the face of injuries. He starts his battle with Tosen and Komamura with multiple stab and slash wounds and still manages to beat Tosen, Ichigo noted that he doesn't feel pain and was showing no signs of slowing down in face of injury, Nnoitra himself put multiple holes in Kenpachi, and a lot of other injuries, and Kenpachi still didn't even slow down or get a drop in AP (because he was still managing to get through his hierro). I'd actually say that Kenpachi might have an advantage here, because while Zoro can certainly keep going with massive injuries, he still becomes weaker via exhaustion. Kenpachi, and all soul reapers, only get exhausted when their reiatsu runs out, and thus while Zoro is going to face exhaustion before being half dead, Kenpachi isn't going to get exhausted till he is half dead. (I say half dead because due to the power of anime and plot both are essentially unkillable in their verses).


All that aside, since these two are basically equal in everything except AP (if we disregard soul hax, thus please move this to fun and games), this is a simple AP battle. Since this isn't an actual versus thread, you guys can decide who has the AP advantage as neither is going to stop till they're dead.
Click to expand...
Well okay if you guys think zoro is more skilled then cool.
I think kenpachi has better stamina and endurance, all zoro's stamina feats that are comparable to kenpachi's are done when he can't fight anymore and is just living on willpower.
Kenpachi has a big AP advantage.
MonkeyOfLife said:
Sorry but you are underestimating Zoro… I like kenpachi a lot… I think if he had Haki he would be superior to Zoro and Zoro would need to fight an uphill battle but

first endurance while kenpachi has insane endurance, Zoro has Insanely Op endurance… what I mean by that is that the more he takes damage the stronger he becomes, literally couldn’t even scratch someone no matter how many times he attacked to then being so damaged to the point of being in near death state and instead was able to one shot him as it was nothing. It’s stated that Zoro lost 3 liters of blood while fighting mihawk and later 5 Liters on arlong park, that’s literally losing every single blood from his body and still being alive… I mean Zoro is fighting Death himself with his willpower and keeps winning… Link and Link

I never saw kenpachi ever having feats like that.

Durability - Zoro has advantage as his stat amps increase his Dura

Speed - Zoro is easily above with speed, techniques that speed amps to the point of nearly getting blitzed to later being full blitz

Skill - Zoro has takes that easily… I mean just read the profile of Zoro’s intelligence section

Range - Zoro takes that as well not only that but they are wide aoe air slashes which he spams and uses them effectively close range, mid range and long range

Sensing - I mean Zoro absolutely destroyed in this… using pre timeskip Zoro sensing would be fair.

AP - Zoro one shots island lvl characters with Haki… Damage boost… Zoro one shots people that before with his regular slashes couldn’t even scratch the person no matter how many times he attack but after using Damage boost, one shotted him. I see Zoro having the ap advantage plus can amp more with Asura and gorilla techniques which is kinda overkill

overall I see Zoro winning this low diff (profile) or high diff (My headcanon of Kenpachi’s capabilities)
Click to expand...
Kenpachi has the AP advantage here by a lot, IDK what you're arguing here, speed too with eye patch off lol, range is a non factor and kenpachi still has better stamina for the reason I gave.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
kenpachi still has better stamina for the reason I gave.
Click to expand...
What reasons? 🐵

FluffyCreatureZ said:
all zoro's stamina feats that are comparable to kenpachi's are done when he can't fight anymore and is just living on willpower.
Click to expand...
Pre timeskip in the beginning of the show yes.
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Kenpachi has the AP advantage here by a lot,
Click to expand...
He can't one shot Sajin or Sajin's bankai.... Zoro with only Armament Haki one shots baseline island lvl where kenpachi is at, kenpachi when he takes off eyepatch he gets alot of stat Amp but not one shotting.... Zoro with Asura One shotted kaku who has comparable if not superior to Zoro's ap. Zoro also has other one shot technique's Like Goken or Flying Dragon: Blaze. Also kenpachi has no dura stat increase while Zoro does.
 
MonkeyOfLife said:
Sorry but you are underestimating Zoro… I like kenpachi a lot… I think if he had Haki he would be superior to Zoro and Zoro would need to fight an uphill battle but

first endurance while kenpachi has insane endurance, Zoro has Insanely Op endurance… what I mean by that is that the more he takes damage the stronger he becomes, literally couldn’t even scratch someone no matter how many times he attacked to then being so damaged to the point of being in near death state and instead was able to one shot him as it was nothing. It’s stated that Zoro lost 3 liters of blood while fighting mihawk and later 5 Liters on arlong park, that’s literally losing every single blood from his body and still being alive… I mean Zoro is fighting Death himself with his willpower and keeps winning… Link and Link

I never saw kenpachi ever having feats like that.

Durability - Zoro has advantage as his stat amps increase his Dura

Speed - Zoro is easily above with speed, techniques that speed amps to the point of nearly getting blitzed to later being full blitz

Skill - Zoro has takes that easily… I mean just read the profile of Zoro’s intelligence section

Range - Zoro takes that as well not only that but they are wide aoe air slashes which he spams and uses them effectively close range, mid range and long range

Sensing - I mean Zoro absolutely destroyed in this… using pre timeskip Zoro sensing would be fair.

AP - Zoro one shots island lvl characters with Haki… Damage boost… Zoro one shots people that before with his regular slashes couldn’t even scratch the person no matter how many times he attack but after using Damage boost, one shotted him. I see Zoro having the ap advantage plus can amp more with Asura and gorilla techniques which is kinda overkill

overall I see Zoro winning this low diff (profile) or high diff (My headcanon of Kenpachi’s capabilities)
Click to expand...

Zoro FRA​

ZoroArt.png
 
MonkeyOfLife said:
What reasons? 🐵


Pre timeskip in the beginning of the show yes.

He can't one shot Sajin or Sajin's bankai.... Zoro with only Armament Haki one shots baseline island lvl where kenpachi is at, kenpachi when he takes off eyepatch he gets alot of stat Amp but not one shotting.... Zoro with Asura One shotted kaku who has comparable if not superior to Zoro's ap. Zoro also has other one shot technique's Like Goken or Flying Dragon: Blaze. Also kenpachi has no dura stat increase while Zoro does.
Click to expand...
I think kenpachi has better stamina and endurance, all zoro's stamina feats that are comparable to kenpachi's are done when he can't fight anymore and is just living on willpower.
Click to expand...
Zoro's best stamina feat I think is after fighting on roof for a while, he survived an attack way out of his league but got his bones broken yet was still able to launch one final attack before passing out, and then there's mihawks wound that was bleeding badly yet was still able to fight and beat hachi although he was severly weakened, on the other hand kenpachi eats wounds like zoro's, is barely effected, and his performance doesn't get worse and is still able to fight without weakening but zoro takes those same wounds and barely can move is extremely weakened and in the case vs kamazou, passed out after getting stabbed once.
Kenpachi has the number advantage (4.3 gigatons vs 4.5 gigatons), his eyepatch increases his AP durability and speed and this amp can turn the tide of battles like vs nnoitora, and his two hand techniques outright one shot comparable nay, even stronger opponents, kenpachi undoubtedly has the AP advantage enough to one shot with two hands.
MonkeyOfLife said:

Zoro FRA​

ZoroArt.png
Click to expand...
Even though half of those reasons are wrong, this is still really freaking cool good job.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Zoro's best stamina feat I think is after fighting on roof for a while, he survived an attack way out of his league but got his bones broken yet was still able to launch one final attack before passing out
Click to expand...
Not even sure what that is
KarematsuShinjuu said:
Except he can. Eyepatch amp is massive, and he was able to one-shot Nnoitra by using Kendo, where Nnoitra had higher AP than Kenpachi at the moment. SS arc Kenpachi should also know kendo, so there's no reason to assume that.
Click to expand...
Well kenpachi vs nnoitra... They were comparebale but when he took of his eye patch, he got much stronger yet didn't one shot... If I remember correctly
 
KarematsuShinjuu said:
Can this be moved to Fun and Games though? Zoro will instantly die if there are no restrictions and with restrictions it can't be added, thus being a fun and games thread.
Click to expand...
No need, everyone already acknowledge this won't be added.
MonkeyOfLife said:
Not even sure what that is

Well kenpachi vs nnoitra... They were comparebale but when he took of his eye patch, he got much stronger yet didn't one shot... If I remember correctly
Click to expand...
Maybe if you watched wano you'd know what that is monkey.
Kenpachi without the eyepatch slapped noitora and was still able to keep up after resurrection, and one shot with two hands.
Dang I don't want to keep debating my own thread can we get some more discussion lol?
 
Essentially Base Kenpachi was somewhat stronger than Base Nnoitra, Resurrección Nnoitra was stronger than Eyepatchless Kenpachi (meaning eyepatch removal is like at least a 4x amplifier, maybe even higher as bankai/Resurrección are at least 5x but can be 10x multipliers) and Kendo Kenpachi can easily one-shot Resurrección Nnoitra, meaning at least more than a 7.5x amplifier according to this wiki's rules.

Base Zoro has armament haki amp, which is unquantifiable as he's not used 3 sword style, then armament haki (he used 2 sword style to match a debuffed Killer, then picked up a sword he wasn't used to and used 3 sword style and armament to one-shot, indicating a total (at least) 7.5x amp comprised of 2 amps: Armament and switching from a 2 sword style to a 3 sword style, thus armament itself being unquantifiable) and Asura, which isn't unquantifiable, its at least a 7.5x amp as it is, again, a one shot move.
a) 7.5x as a rule is incorrect as different verses have a different capacity of one-shots according to this wiki. Bleach for example should have a higher one shot amp as hollow/soul reaper physiology means they can take much more punishment. One Piece has nothing like this in the case of Killer, but the giraffe CP9 guy was, well, a giraffe at the time so it should again be higher so we don't know how amps would apply.

b) Kenpachi should be, in base, quite a bit stronger than 4.5 gigatons. Toshiro scales to 900 megatons in shikai, and assuming Tosen was of a similar strength (and there's no reason to not assume that), Kenpachi could make quick work of a bankai Tosen, only needing 2-3 attacks to incapacitate him, with eyepatch on. Zoro (beginning of arc) scale to 4.3 gigatons, meaning Kenpachi with eyepatch is quite a bit stronger. But again, we don't know how high Zoro's armament haki amp is and what the one shot amps are.

Assuming it to be 7.5x for armament and oneshots, which is incorrect as shown above but whatever, Kenpachi scales to, what, somewhat higher than Zoro (high end) and somewhat lower than Zoro (low end). The difference, either ways, comparable-ish but very uncertain.

The point of all this is that all these amps (except maybe eyepatch) are extremely suspect, and not objective at all. Kendo's got only one feat against someone who only scaled to Kenpachi, Asura only has one feat against someone who only scaled to Zoro, and Armament haki has no clear amps as shown above for Zoro. And for two people who are essentially similar in skill, endurance and durability, with no hax going either side (well one guy had hax but they're restricted) this match is probably inconclusive.
 
KarematsuShinjuu said:
meaning at least more than a 7.5x amplifier according to this wiki's rules.
Click to expand...
KarematsuShinjuu said:
its at least a 7.5x amp as it is, again, a one shot move
Click to expand...
KarematsuShinjuu said:
a) 7.5x as a rule is incorrect as different verses have a different capacity of one-shots according to this wiki.

Assuming it to be 7.5x for armament and oneshots, which is incorrect as shown above but whatever, Kenpachi scales to, what, somewhat higher than Zoro (high end) and somewhat lower than Zoro (low end). The difference, either ways, comparable-ish but very uncertain.
Click to expand...
One-shots in versus threads

• This gap is strictly for versus debating purposes, and will not apply when attempting to derive the attack potency of a character based on a feat of one-shotting another character in his or her verse.
 
Last edited:
KarematsuShinjuu said:
Essentially Base Kenpachi was somewhat stronger than Base Nnoitra, Resurrección Nnoitra was stronger than Eyepatchless Kenpachi (meaning eyepatch removal is like at least a 4x amplifier, maybe even higher as bankai/Resurrección are at least 5x but can be 10x multipliers) and Kendo Kenpachi can easily one-shot Resurrección Nnoitra, meaning at least more than a 7.5x amplifier according to this wiki's rules.

Base Zoro has armament haki amp, which is unquantifiable as he's not used 3 sword style, then armament haki (he used 2 sword style to match a debuffed Killer, then picked up a sword he wasn't used to and used 3 sword style and armament to one-shot, indicating a total (at least) 7.5x amp comprised of 2 amps: Armament and switching from a 2 sword style to a 3 sword style, thus armament itself being unquantifiable) and Asura, which isn't unquantifiable, its at least a 7.5x amp as it is, again, a one shot move.
a) 7.5x as a rule is incorrect as different verses have a different capacity of one-shots according to this wiki. Bleach for example should have a higher one shot amp as hollow/soul reaper physiology means they can take much more punishment. One Piece has nothing like this in the case of Killer, but the giraffe CP9 guy was, well, a giraffe at the time so it should again be higher so we don't know how amps would apply.

b) Kenpachi should be, in base, quite a bit stronger than 4.5 gigatons. Toshiro scales to 900 megatons in shikai, and assuming Tosen was of a similar strength (and there's no reason to not assume that), Kenpachi could make quick work of a bankai Tosen, only needing 2-3 attacks to incapacitate him, with eyepatch on. Zoro (beginning of arc) scale to 4.3 gigatons, meaning Kenpachi with eyepatch is quite a bit stronger. But again, we don't know how high Zoro's armament haki amp is and what the one shot amps are.

Assuming it to be 7.5x for armament and oneshots, which is incorrect as shown above but whatever, Kenpachi scales to, what, somewhat higher than Zoro (high end) and somewhat lower than Zoro (low end). The difference, either ways, comparable-ish but very uncertain.

The point of all this is that all these amps (except maybe eyepatch) are extremely suspect, and not objective at all. Kendo's got only one feat against someone who only scaled to Kenpachi, Asura only has one feat against someone who only scaled to Zoro, and Armament haki has no clear amps as shown above for Zoro. And for two people who are essentially similar in skill, endurance and durability, with no hax going either side (well one guy had hax but they're restricted) this match is probably inconclusive.
Click to expand...
Zoro has Stronger dura… Zoro has pre timeskip feats of Skills that easily makes him above kenpachi and Zoro should have higher stamina but it wouldn’t matter anyway

you are forgetting Goken… which without it he literally couldn’t even do a single scratch no matter how many times he attacked him, but if when used Goken he completely one shotted him.

you are very little bit overhyping kenpachi and very much downplaying Zoro 🤷‍♂️
 
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