Roronoa Zoro vs Musashi Miyamoto

[DaReaperMan]

Link, link, link, link

Should be enough to shrug off Musashi's shit then to my knowledge

 

[DaReaperMan]

Well I am showing you why Zoro wins and doesn't get out skilled

You are talking to someone who literally does not give a rats ass about one piece, never interested me and I know **** all about it, I also said I am not an expert on Baki in the slightest, that kind of implies I'm clueless and am going off of what others have said that I have read.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

You are talking to someone who literally does not give a rats ass about one piece, never interested me and I know **** all about it, I also said I am not an expert on Baki in the slightest, that kind of implies I'm clueless and am going off of what others have said that I have read.

Ok but I still will comment against you and make you understand...

 

[DaReaperMan]

Ok but I still will comment against you and make you understand...

Until I see evidence that Zoro is even remotely comperable to Yujiro Hanma in skill I will believe that Musashi outskills, and trust me, Yujiro has some real god damn ridiculous scaling and feats if I recall the skill debates involving him correctly

 

[DaReaperMan]

Also Zoro gets precoged by Musashi, who also can just read Zoro's mind to see what he is gonna do, going by the profile

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Until I see evidence that Zoro is even remotely comperable to Yujiro Hanma in skill I will believe that Musashi outskills, and trust me, Yujiro has some real god damn ridiculous scaling and feats if I recall the skill debates involving him correctly

This is the Strongest Swordsman in one piece...

 

[DaReaperMan]

This is the Strongest Swordsman in one piece...

Read this thread for me, I'm pretty sure 99% of the skill feats in Baki are in there, which Musashi upscales from the vast majority of them and also fought Yujiro.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Also Zoro gets precoged by Musashi, who also can just read Zoro's mind to see what he is gonna do, going by the profile

Its limited and Zoro's breath of all things should cancel it it I think but I'm not sure

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Read this thread for me, I'm pretty sure 99% of the skill feats in Baki are in there, which Musashi upscales from the vast majority of them and also fought Yujiro.

you want me to read ALL that?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Its limited and Zoro's breath of all things should cancel it it I think but I'm not sure

Which is why I mentioned it

you want me to read ALL that? 🌫‍🏍

It has all of the best shit for Yujiro in it, and Musashi downscales from (not massively if i recall) Yujiro in terms of skill so you kind of need to in order for any skill debate on Musashi vs Zoro to continue without Baki knowledgeables here

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Which is why I mentioned it

It has all of the best shit for Yujiro in it, and Musashi downscales from (not massively if i recall) Yujiro in terms of skill so you kind of need to in order for any skill debate on Musashi vs Zoro to continue without Baki knowledgeables here

I only watched the anime on Yujiro I know he is VERY skilled even if you train your whole life you won't get to his level... But Musashi isn't even close as skilled as Dracule Mihawk I think not even Yojiro is as skilled as Mihawk but they use completely different fighting styles

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Ok Baki got upgraded again and I want to make another match however instead of Yujiro why not someone even better

Roronoa Zoro:

Vs

Musashi Miyamoto (Baki):

Both low 7-B

Speed is equalized

Both are five meters apart

Fight takes place in Marienford

Who wins?

I'll vote Zoro because of breath of all things (it's precog and many other things but only activates when he is near death), Limited Durability Negation with Ittoryu Iai: Shishi Sonson & Nitoryu Iai: Rashomon techniques (Goken type Swordsmen and those who have reached The pinnacle of Swordsmanship are stated to be capable of cutting any material as long as they will it, whether it be flesh or steel however the full extent to which this can be applied is unknown) and as well as a Speed Amp with Ittoryu Iai: Shishi Sonson and very unique fighting style that Musashi won't be able to be comfortable with since Musashi have never fought some like zoro's fighting style... Zoro uses his own

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Breath of all things is not pre cognition and only applies to the shishi sonson technique when near death. Miaomoto outskills and closes the distance gap instantly. Zoro isn't using the pound canon at 15 meters away lmao whats that even gonna do this isn't gonna be a fight miamoto murders with AP advantage and skill.

 

[LordGinSama]

Higher stamina wont really matter as both characters can likely end the fight quickly, the limited dura neg comes from sword skills however Mussashi is a lot more skilled tho so it wont be a problem, and even if it is he ha precog and amps

I disagree vehemently with that statement, I'd actually argue that Zoro has the better feats.


Also Zoro isn't getting precoged here, especially whenever he has his own form of Prediction via skill and another form of Prediction via Breath of All Things.

 

[LordGinSama]

Yeah voting Zoro via arguably better skill in Swordsmanship, much better Acrobatics and agility allowing Zoro to dodge his attacks more effectively, amongst his Analytical Prediction which will allow Zoro to match Musashi's own Prediction, so that isn't much of an advantage for either combatant since they can both predict. Zoro however edges out via Information Analysis, and his is a lot better since Zoro's allows him to find out things he really shouldn't be able to, such as curses, finding his opponent's weaknesses and forming effective countermeasures on the spot.



Durability Negation also helps Zoro out here and he has more than enough endurance to ignore most of the damage dealt from Musashi. Zoro can counter most of Musashi's stuff, and overall has the better arsenal via durability, much better Information Analysis, comparable if not superior skill and the endurance to take Musashi's stimulation cuts.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Read this thread for me, I'm pretty sure 99% of the skill feats in Baki are in there, which Musashi upscales from the vast majority of them and also fought Yujiro.

 

[Eminiteable]

Going to vote Zoro for LordGinSama's reasons.

 

[LordGinSama]

Yes I'm aware of the feats, I've read all of Baki and am caught up on the current Manga.


In no way does Musashi scale to Yujiro's stuff, they fought briefly and Musashi got yeeted, and they also have very different forms of fighting. Yujiro doesn't use a sword, its impossible for Musashi to scale to Yujiro's feats whenever they aren't even related to his own discipline. He'll Musashi even got wrecked by Motobe of all people, he isn't dancing around Zoro as some people claim.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Breath of all things is not pre cognition and only applies to the shishi sonson technique when near death.

Link breath of all things also is precog but happens when zoro is very damaged

 

[Popted2]

Zoro FRA

 

[BakiHanma18]

Honestly, I haven’t read most of the thread, but I’d consider myself knowledgeable enough of both verse to make a stance after reviewing their profiles. I’d have to go with Musashi. He simply has better skill feats as well as ways around most everything Zoro has in his arsenal. An extremely difficult thing to deal with is the fact that he both has precognition and can counter other precognition-like abilities such as the 0.5 Seconds Unconsciousness with his brain signal Go-no-Sen, in which he essentially baits people into taking predictable actions by reading their minds and knowing that they’ll read his mind, essentially predicting their prediction and reacting after they’ve initiated an attack. In terms of swordsmanship, they’re both feather-cutting level, so roughly equal, but Musashi’s skill display extends beyond that considerably, being able to do things like making people feel as though they’ve been cut in half by a sword on the cellular level just by desiring to do so, and even cutting without a sword via the Absent Sword. I don’t know where Zoro’s pain threshold is (but I remember its extremely high, IE the Kuma feat), but Musashi’s slices have feats of making all 3 trillion of someone’s cells feel as though they died, knocking out Baki in one slash post Yujiro fight, where he was described as being immune to conventional pain (the pain of Benda exceed normal strikes and literally attacks via pain primarily), and making people literally visualize their deaths precisely as intended by Musashi in graphic detail. He’s also shown such ability with his blade, he cut through water and hit Doppo with the sharp end of his blade in a devastating impact, but didn’t even so much as knick him due to only applying pressure without cutting. As for Zoro’s ranged attacks, they’d likely be the most difficult to get past, but seeing as Musashi would quite literally always be one step ahead, closing the distance shouldn’t be too difficult. Musashi once blitzed an entire team of police completely surrounding him and defeated them with what was stated to be just his footwork. All in all, I’d say Musashi high diffs if he utilizes his Sword Simulation, Absent Sword, and advanced Go-no-Sen properly, which he should, what with both Motobe and Yujiro praising his battlefield prowess.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Honestly, I haven’t read most of the thread, but I’d consider myself knowledgeable enough of both verse to make a stance after reviewing their profiles. I’d have to go with Musashi. He simply has better skill feats as well as ways around most everything Zoro has in his arsenal. An extremely difficult thing to deal with is the fact that he both has precognition and can counter other precognition-like abilities such as the 0.5 Seconds Unconsciousness with his brain signal Go-no-Sen, in which he essentially baits people into taking predictable actions by reading their minds and knowing that they’ll read his mind, essentially predicting their prediction and reacting after they’ve initiated an attack. In terms of swordsmanship, they’re both feather-cutting level, so roughly equal, but Musashi’s skill display extends beyond that considerably, being able to do things like making people feel as though they’ve been cut in half by a sword on the cellular level just by desiring to do so, and even cutting without a sword via the Absent Sword. I don’t know where Zoro’s pain threshold is (but I remember its extremely high, IE the Kuma feat), but Musashi’s slices have feats of making all 3 trillion of someone’s cells feel as though they died, knocking out Baki in one slash post Yujiro fight, where he was described as being immune to conventional pain (the pain of Benda exceed normal strikes and literally attacks via pain primarily), and making people literally visualize their deaths precisely as intended by Musashi in graphic detail. He’s also shown such ability with his blade, he cut through water and hit Doppo with the sharp end of his blade in a devastating impact, but didn’t even so much as knick him due to only applying pressure without cutting. As for Zoro’s ranged attacks, they’d likely be the most difficult to get past, but seeing as Musashi would quite literally always be one step ahead, closing the distance shouldn’t be too difficult. Musashi once blitzed an entire team of police completely surrounding him and defeated them with what was stated to be just his footwork. All in all, I’d say Musashi high diffs if he utilizes his Sword Simulation, Absent Sword, and advanced Go-no-Sen properly, which he should, what with both Motobe and Yujiro praising his battlefield prowess.

Not bad but what can Musashi do against Shishi SonSon... It's a Speed Amp as well as durability negation... Now skill wise Zoro is better.... Zoro uses his own 3 sword style that Musashi wouldn't be able to read or understand... While Musashi is quite skilled and is able to fight without a sword.... Zoro can also do that... Zoro has mastered swordsmanship to the point he can kinda literally cut anything and nothing?...(that was close to the beginning of the show)Zoro also has Accelerated Development and even Reactive Power Level.. Zoro will find weaknesses just by looking at Musashi by Information Analysis... Even Statistics Amplification (Via increasing the muscle mass of his arms to briefly enhance his strength and Asura, which triples his attacking power) which won't be needed since shishi sonson is enough to one shot Musashi... "Musashi’s slices have feats of making all 3 trillion of someone’s cells feel as though they died, knocking out Baki in one slash post Yujiro fight, where he was described as being immune to conventional pain (the pain of Benda exceed normal strikes and literally attacks via pain primarily), and making people literally visualize their deaths precisely as intended by Musashi in graphic detail." Zoro has multiple times been so damaged that is supposed to kill him... That attack damages Zoro from the inside of his body as well... Even while on the verge of death Zoro somehow survived... to say Musashi can damage Zoro more then that is impossible... Zoro's Supernatural will alone would win. Now Musashi might be able to predict Zoro but Zoro with Shishi SonSon would be able to still hit Musashi even with Precog since it's a Speed Amp but that's what I think

 

[LordGinSama]

Honestly, I haven’t read most of the thread, but I’d consider myself knowledgeable enough of both verse to make a stance after reviewing their profiles. I’d have to go with Musashi. He simply has better skill feats

That part i disagree with entirely, Zoro has the much better shown feats between the two and most of his stuff is him in critical states.

as well as ways around most everything Zoro has in his arsenal. An extremely difficult thing to deal with is the fact that he both has precognition and can counter other precognition-like abilities such as the 0.5 Seconds Unconsciousness with his brain signal Go-no-Sen, in which he essentially baits people into taking predictable actions by reading their minds and knowing that they’ll read his mind, essentially predicting their prediction and reacting after they’ve initiated an attack.

How does Musashi have a way around Zoro's Acrobatics, and Information Analysis? 0.5 Seconds Unconscious isn't precognition, this Zoro also has experience in dealing with characters with similar prediction as well, such as Kaku who has his own Prediction via Kenbunshoku Haki, which grants lower levels of Kenbunshoku users Mind Reading.

In terms of swordsmanship, they’re both feather-cutting level, so roughly equal, but Musashi’s skill display extends beyond that considerably, being able to do things like making people feel as though they’ve been cut in half by a sword on the cellular level just by desiring to do so, and even cutting without a sword via the Absent Sword.

Hax and Zoro can use unarmed sword based attacks, matter of fact aside from his Santoryu he has another stlye he made which revolves around Zoro using no swords to cut his opponents with. Zoro’s also far beyond feather-cutting level, he's reached the pinnacle of Swordsmanship giving him access to Durability Negation, I.E effortlessy slashing things apart. The cellular thing is nice but Zoro has beaten foes who are immune to slashing based weapons and Zoro’s Shishi Sonson effortlessly cleaved through him while half dead and with little to no momentum. Musashi is good but Zoro has feats of overcoming someone immune to cutting via skill.

I don’t know where Zoro’s pain threshold is (but I remember its extremely high, IE the Kuma feat), but Musashi’s slices have feats of making all 3 trillion of someone’s cells feel as though they died

luckily this one isn't a feat of bypassing pain, that's just how death works and Musashi is simply simulating that, Zoro has been at deaths literal door many times already.

, knocking out Baki in one slash post Yujiro fight,

This one is good but that's more of a AP feat, and a sword slash is very obviously going to inflict much more fatal damage than anything Baki has interacted with before Barring Benda but that's up for debate.

where he was described as being immune to conventional pain (the pain of Benda exceed normal strikes and literally attacks via pain primarily),

All that really pails in comparison to Kuma's feat, Kuma manipulates pain directly, Benda users do not. And while Benda is painful, it doesn't make you experience all the pain and damage you've accumulated over the hours all at once and instantaneously. No Baki is even close to having immunity to pain btw.

and making people literally visualize their deaths precisely as intended by Musashi in graphic detail.

Which is fear Manipulation, something that Zoro also has.

He’s also shown such ability with his blade, he cut through water

Cutting through water is something anyone can do, water isn't intangible to humans its still physical, anyway Zoro’s dura negation greatly outdoes this via being able to cut Daz Bones, who's steel is harder than natural steel.

and hit Doppo with the sharp end of his blade in a devastating impact, but didn’t even so much as knick him due to only applying pressure without cutting.

That's a basic principle of Swordsmanship in One Piece, that's just good body control, which going by Zoro’s teachers own words is something Zoro is capable of himself. "To not cut what you don't wish to cut and to cut through whatever you wish to cut." if Zoro doesn't want to cut skin or paper with his cutting that's something he can do.

As for Zoro’s ranged attacks, they’d likely be the most difficult to get past, but seeing as Musashi would quite literally always be one step ahead,

Already covered that, Musashi isn't going to be one step ahead for the reasons I gave above. At best they're predictions would cancel one another out.

closing the distance shouldn’t be too difficult. Musashi once blitzed an entire team of police completely surrounding him and defeated them with what was stated to be just his footwork.

...Yeah of course he can blitz large groups of fodder, Musashi is quite literally dozens to hundreds of times faster than them, and if we wanna go the footwork route Zoro is basically a break dancer so that's not a good idea.

All in all, I’d say Musashi high diffs if he utilizes his Sword Simulation, Absent Sword, and advanced Go-no-Sen properly, which he should, what with both Motobe and Yujiro praising his battlefield prowess.

 

[Rez]

Zoro via dura neg and breath of all things should be Precog it allowed Zoro to predict exactly where the rocks will fall and where his sword was

 

[LordGinSama]

Also to further elaborate upon Zoro's skill, his 3 sword style is harder to register than attacks with 6-8 arms attacking all at once as his Santoryu is >>> the 6-8 style fishmen use.

 

[BakiHanma18]

• If you think Zoro’s skill feats are superior, please cite some examples. I can do the same for Musashi if you’d like so that we can analyze and compare them.
• Acrobatics isn’t that difficult to manage against, as Musashi can Go-no-Sen his landing and attack there. Information Analysis isn’t that difficult to deal with either, as he combatted Yujiro to a near stalemate (Yujiro having cellular and extrasensory info analysis), and he did the same with Baki, whose analysis includes gauging strength at a glance, learning fighting style at a glance through a fake stance, and of course his ridiculous predictive ability.
• 0.5 is precognition. It is a skill that alerts the user to an incoming attack before it happens. Regardless, feudal samurais are described as all having Musashi’s mind-reading ability during the first Baki/Musashi fight, and Musashi’s killed 60 of them in single duel and dozens more on the battlefield.
• If he’s far beyond feather-cutting, can you provide some examples? Just as Zoro can effortlessly cut through things, Musashi can cut through bulletproof vests and riot shields like butter, but both Zoro and Musashi’s feats can also simply be attributed to a low 7-B AP rather than precision or skill.
• Musashi has beaten Retsu’s whose Xiao-Lee made him impervious to Kaku Kaioh’s sword slashes, with Kaku being described as an extremely high level swordsman, likely implying him to be above the likes of the 9th dan swordsman introduced, of which there are only 20 of on Earth.
• If Zoro hasn’t experienced death in its actuality, this Sense Manipulation should affect him badly. Baki has also almost died on almost a dozen separate occasions, yet the feeling of dying KO’d him in one slash. Its the difference of stepping on a lego and stepping on a nail. Both are extremely painful and similar types of pain, but the lego will not properly prepare you for the nail, only reduce the effect it has.
• The sword slash isn’t an AP feat. It wasn’t a real sword, only Sense Manipulation, so while Zoro has experienced near death levels of pain often, he isn’t nearly immune to conventional pain like Baki. Baki has had his nerves ripped out of his body and severed, a vast majority of his bones broken while continuing to fight, and he was even choked to death by Gaia, only to continue fighting.
• Benda is described as being superior to a whip, which kills via pain from a couple dozen strikes. Yanagi’s Benda is far superior to standard Benda, surpassing even the most well known master of Benda, his master. Baki took three of his Benda strikes without even blinking before fighting Yujiro. Two of Yujiro’s Bendas surpassed everything else Baki had ever felt, but he still kept fighting. Musashi’s Sword Sim Pain Manipulation KO’d him in one hit, far surpassing nerve tearing, artery biting, bone breaking, whip strikes, Benda, and even Yujiro’s Benda. Musashi Pain Manipulation will almost definitely have some adverse effect on Zoro.
• The people visualizing their death is Sense Manipulation, IE they can also feel their gruesome and graphic deaths in express detail as described by Pickle’s handler.
• Granted, slicing through water is easy, but when Musashi cut it, it didn’t reform. The water stayed cut. Also, cutting through steel harder than steel is good, but that feat suffers the same issue as the other cutting feats: its either outdone by cutting through a ballistic right shield/bulletproof vest or its just AP, depending on how we’re looking at these feats.
• Has Zoro ever struck something with the sharp end of his sword and not cut it? Like, has he actually displayed that feat? Because a vague statement from Zoro’s teacher doesn’t actually tell me anything. It could be metaphorical (use your sword however you want), as he can literally not cut want he doesn’t want to cut by not slashing it with his sword.
• As mentioned prior, Musashi and Zoro’s precognition cancel each other out and Musashi Go-no-Sens him, staying a step ahead.
• Breakdancing is a really bad feat of footwork. Even irl, a breakdancer would get slaughter in a fight by anyone with any footwork geared for combat. Also, all of the guards were following his movements and reacting, so he wasn’t blitzing. It wasn’t praised as a feat of speed, but footwork. Does Zoro have any footwork feats?

 

[BakiHanma18]

That part i disagree with entirely, Zoro has the much better shown feats between the two and most of his stuff is him in critical states.

How does Musashi have a way around Zoro's Acrobatics, and Information Analysis? 0.5 Seconds Unconscious isn't precognition, this Zoro also has experience in dealing with characters with similar prediction as well, such as Kaku who has his own Prediction via Kenbunshoku Haki, which grants lower levels of Kenbunshoku users Mind Reading.

Hax and Zoro can use unarmed sword based attacks, matter of fact aside from his Santoryu he has another stlye he made which revolves around Zoro using no swords to cut his opponents with. Zoro’s also far beyond feather-cutting level, he's reached the pinnacle of Swordsmanship giving him access to Durability Negation, I.E effortlessy slashing things apart. The cellular thing is nice but Zoro has beaten foes who are immune to slashing based weapons and Zoro’s Shishi Sonson effortlessly cleaved through him while half dead and with little to no momentum. Musashi is good but Zoro has feats of overcoming someone immune to cutting via skill.

luckily this one isn't a feat of bypassing pain, that's just how death works and Musashi is simply simulating that, Zoro has been at deaths literal door many times already.

This one is good but that's more of a AP feat, and a sword slash is very obviously going to inflict much more fatal damage than anything Baki has interacted with before Barring Benda but that's up for debate.

All that really pails in comparison to Kuma's feat, Kuma manipulates pain directly, Benda users do not. And while Benda is painful, it doesn't make you experience all the pain and damage you've accumulated over the hours all at once and instantaneously. No Baki is even close to having immunity to pain btw.

Which is fear Manipulation, something that Zoro also has.

Cutting through water is something anyone can do, water isn't intangible to humans its still physical, anyway Zoro’s dura negation greatly outdoes this via being able to cut Daz Bones, who's steel is harder than natural steel.

That's a basic principle of Swordsmanship in One Piece, that's just good body control, which going by Zoro’s teachers own words is something Zoro is capable of himself. "To not cut what you don't wish to cut and to cut through whatever you wish to cut." if Zoro doesn't want to cut skin or paper with his cutting that's something he can do.

Already covered that, Musashi isn't going to be one step ahead for the reasons I gave above. At best they're predictions would cancel one another out.

...Yeah of course he can blitz large groups of fodder, Musashi is quite literally dozens to hundreds of times faster than them, and if we wanna go the footwork route Zoro is basically a break dancer so that's not a good idea.

• If you think Zoro’s skill feats are superior, please cite some examples. I can do the same for Musashi if you’d like so that we can analyze and compare them.
• Acrobatics isn’t that difficult to manage against, as Musashi can Go-no-Sen his landing and attack there. Information Analysis isn’t that difficult to deal with either, as he combatted Yujiro to a near stalemate (Yujiro having cellular and extrasensory info analysis), and he did the same with Baki, whose analysis includes gauging strength at a glance, learning fighting style at a glance through a fake stance, and of course his ridiculous predictive ability.
• 0.5 is precognition. It is a skill that alerts the user to an incoming attack before it happens. Regardless, feudal samurais are described as all having Musashi’s mind-reading ability during the first Baki/Musashi fight, and Musashi’s killed 60 of them in single duel and dozens more on the battlefield.
• If he’s far beyond feather-cutting, can you provide some examples? Just as Zoro can effortlessly cut through things, Musashi can cut through bulletproof vests and riot shields like butter, but both Zoro and Musashi’s feats can also simply be attributed to a low 7-B AP rather than precision or skill.
• Musashi has beaten Retsu’s whose Xiao-Lee made him impervious to Kaku Kaioh’s sword slashes, with Kaku being described as an extremely high level swordsman, likely implying him to be above the likes of the 9th dan swordsman introduced, of which there are only 20 of on Earth.
• If Zoro hasn’t experienced death in its actuality, this Sense Manipulation should affect him badly. Baki has also almost died on almost a dozen separate occasions, yet the feeling of dying KO’d him in one slash. Its the difference of stepping on a lego and stepping on a nail. Both are extremely painful and similar types of pain, but the lego will not properly prepare you for the nail, only reduce the effect it has.
• The sword slash isn’t an AP feat. It wasn’t a real sword, only Sense Manipulation, so while Zoro has experienced near death levels of pain often, he isn’t nearly immune to conventional pain like Baki. Baki has had his nerves ripped out of his body and severed, a vast majority of his bones broken while continuing to fight, and he was even choked to death by Gaia, only to continue fighting.
• Benda is described as being superior to a whip, which kills via pain from a couple dozen strikes. Yanagi’s Benda is far superior to standard Benda, surpassing even the most well known master of Benda, his master. Baki took three of his Benda strikes without even blinking before fighting Yujiro. Two of Yujiro’s Bendas surpassed everything else Baki had ever felt, but he still kept fighting. Musashi’s Sword Sim Pain Manipulation KO’d him in one hit, far surpassing nerve tearing, artery biting, bone breaking, whip strikes, Benda, and even Yujiro’s Benda. Musashi Pain Manipulation will almost definitely have some adverse effect on Zoro.
• The people visualizing their death is Sense Manipulation, IE they can also feel their gruesome and graphic deaths in express detail as described by Pickle’s handler.
• Granted, slicing through water is easy, but when Musashi cut it, it didn’t reform. The water stayed cut. Also, cutting through steel harder than steel is good, but that feat suffers the same issue as the other cutting feats: its either outdone by cutting through a ballistic right shield/bulletproof vest or its just AP, depending on how we’re looking at these feats.
• Has Zoro ever struck something with the sharp end of his sword and not cut it? Like, has he actually displayed that feat? Because a vague statement from Zoro’s teacher doesn’t actually tell me anything. It could be metaphorical (use your sword however you want), as he can literally not cut want he doesn’t want to cut by not slashing it with his sword.
• As mentioned prior, Musashi and Zoro’s precognition cancel each other out and Musashi Go-no-Sens him, staying a step ahead.
• Breakdancing is a really bad feat of footwork. Even irl, a breakdancer would get slaughter in a fight by anyone with any footwork geared for combat. Also, all of the guards were following his movements and reacting, so he wasn’t blitzing. It wasn’t praised as a feat of speed, but footwork. Does Zoro have any footwork feats?

 

[LordGinSama]

• If you think Zoro’s skill feats are superior, please cite some examples. I can do the same for Musashi if you’d like so that we can analyze and compare them.

I'm actually total down for this, I've gotten into Kengan debates with you iirc and genuinely had plenty of fun doing so. Lol where do we wanna start?

• Acrobatics isn’t that difficult to manage against, as Musashi can Go-no-Sen his landing and attack there.

It's useful for evasive maneuvers, such as dodging while at point blank range.

• Information Analysis isn’t that difficult to deal with either, as he combatted Yujiro to a near stalemate (Yujiro having cellular and extrasensory info analysis),

Yujiro can't use his information Analysis to sense a deadly curse without prior knowledge, his information Analysis is neat but Zoro outdoes Yujiro in this department via being able to analyze something a lot more abstract than cells, that being a literal curse.

• and he did the same with Baki, whose analysis includes gauging strength at a glance, learning fighting style at a glance through a fake stance, and of course his ridiculous predictive ability.

In terms of analyzing opponents Zoro again outdoes these via detecting things a lot more meta than cells or fighting styles.

• 0.5 is precognition. It is a skill that alerts the user to an incoming attack before it happens. Regardless, feudal samurais are described as all having Musashi’s mind-reading ability during the first Baki/Musashi fight, and Musashi’s killed 60 of them in single duel and dozens more on the battlefield.

That's not Precognition, that's Danger sensing not Precognition. Precognition is more along the lines of "i see the attack happening before it's even made." not "i sense the attack being made." 0.5 seconds unconscious is Analytical Prediction, same as Spider-Man's and Deku's Danger Sense. Similar but not quite precognition, and they don't have feats with their precognition unlike Musashi and they obviously don't scale to him in terms of skill, making that feat pretty vague. Kaku has actual feats with his Kenbunshoku Haki Prediction and Zoro overcame it.

• If he’s far beyond feather-cutting, can you provide some examples?

Zoro's teacher, who taught Zoro while he was young is capable of things far Beyond feather cutting, those who have reached the pinnacle of Swordsmanship are capable of cutting anything and cutting nothing depending on if they will it to be. Zoro reaches this level as a 8-A, and the impressive part here is the opponent Zoro is facing. Daz Bones is immune to slashing based attacks, and his steel is much harder than any naturally occurring steel. Daz whoops Zoro a new one and at the end Zoro unlocks his skill based durability negation to cleave through Daz.

• Just as Zoro can effortlessly cut through things, Musashi can cut through bulletproof vests and riot shields like butter, but both Zoro and Musashi’s feats can also simply be attributed to a low 7-B AP rather than precision or skill.

No, no no Zoro's is absolutely not from his Low 7-B AP. In One Piece cutting through steel and such is a feat of skill, not something related to AP, it's called Swordsmen desire which revolves around the user conveying their own will to their blades, the blades understanding this allows for effortlessly slashing and hacking. Zoro while he was in a fresh, healthy state was unable to cut or even dent Daz no matter how hard he swung. This is a Zoro who's peperfectly healthy and at the peak of his AP is unable to cut Daz Bones. Later on Daz Bones quite literally beats Zoro within inches of his life. After this Zoro is on deaths door and with zero energy, he remembers his teachers training and utilizes what his teacher told him. As an example here's Zoro not cutting a leaf and effortlessly cutting stone with little no more strength left or momentum. Later cuts Daz Bones with no momentum and is implied to be able to cut diamonds at this point. This Zoro was 8-A, Zoro has long since grown tremendously since then.

• Musashi has beaten Retsu’s whose Xiao-Lee made him impervious to Kaku Kaioh’s sword slashes, with Kaku being described as an extremely high level swordsman, likely implying him to be above the likes of the 9th dan swordsman introduced, of which there are only 20 of on Earth.

Kaku really lacks any proper Swordsmanship feats to compare to Zoro, in that regard when comparing the two Zoro destroys Kaku in terms of sword skill via his own shown feats. Being a dan is neato but also completely empty as they haven't shown any notable feats, skilled yes but it's all left vague. Zoro on the other hand as plenty of very impressive feats.

• If Zoro hasn’t experienced death in its actuality, this Sense Manipulation should affect him badly. Baki has also almost died on almost a dozen separate occasions, yet the feeling of dying KO’d him in one slash. Its the difference of stepping on a lego and stepping on a nail. Both are extremely painful and similar types of pain, but the lego will not properly prepare you for the nail, only reduce the effect it has.

Baki hasn't come close to dying as in literally being on Deaths Door as Zoro has. Zoro has been in the boundary of life and death, also Zoro took the accumulated pain of Luffy, who withstood the strain of several hundreds of Shadow's, and Kuma directly manipulates pain itself. So this is Zoro taking the all the damage he's accumulated within the last few hours of Thriller Bark, the accumulated damage of Luffy + all the pain from the hundreds of Shadow's, all that pain expelled from Luffy and Zoro resulted in Zoro losing over 5 liters of blood, and he was still conscious and standing somtime after all this.

• The sword slash isn’t an AP feat. It wasn’t a real sword, only Sense Manipulation, so while Zoro has experienced near death levels of pain often, he isn’t nearly immune to conventional pain like Baki. Baki has had his nerves ripped out of his body and severed, a vast majority of his bones broken while continuing to fight, and he was even choked to death by Gaia, only to continue fighting.

First things first, Baki isn't immune to pain so stop bringing that up. I can't tell if that's you being serious or not, but that's a massive NLF to claim immunity to pain especially whenever it isn't even portrayed as such in the verse. He has a good pain tolerance, that's it, he doesn't have immunity.


Zoro has gotten nearly cut in half, by Mihawk and continued to fight after sustaining the wound. He even has the fresh wound attacked and opened up again. Arlong was even shocked to see that any human can survive such a Wound. Later on in the next arc Zoro gets trapped in solid wax, and gets about half way into cutting his legs off to escape. Afterwards he gets set on fire and is not bothered in the slightest. Also continued to fight despite the deep wounds that he sustained from Daz Bones who cut him up with spinning blades. Afterwards Zoro was attacked directly after and fell off a building that's several stories and continues to fight again. Getting his neck and chest cut isn't enough to keep him down. Even being tasted by Enel isn't enough to keep him down, and this was made even worse with him wielding swords, this feat also greatly outdoes Musashi's own taser feat. Zoro also has had limbs frozen solid before and has feats of dealing with internal damage from Kuma's Urus Shock. Last but not least is his feat of sustaining the damage he's accumulated, the damage Luffy has accumulated and all the stress of the Shadows Luffy used. This i know greatly outdoes anything found in Baki as the series lacks anyone who manipulates pain itself.

• Benda is described as being superior to a whip, which kills via pain from a couple dozen strikes. Yanagi’s Benda is far superior to standard Benda, surpassing even the most well known master of Benda, his master. Baki took three of his Benda strikes without even blinking before fighting Yujiro. Two of Yujiro’s Bendas surpassed everything else Baki had ever felt, but he still kept fighting. Musashi’s Sword Sim Pain Manipulation KO’d him in one hit, far surpassing nerve tearing, artery biting, bone breaking, whip strikes, Benda, and even Yujiro’s Benda. Musashi Pain Manipulation will almost definitely have some adverse effect on Zoro.

Already responded to this above, nothing and I mean absolutely nothing in Baki can dish out the type of pain that Kuma can. Everything you just listed pails in comparison to Kuma's haxxed as **** Devil Fruit.
Kuma is also able to use his powers to push out the pain and fatigue from the body of another person. These sensations are then manifested into a red bubble resembling a paw. With this technique, the pain the original person suffered can be transferred to another through direct physical contact with the bubble.

You know how Musashi own pain simulation works? Yeah, Kuma takes that a few steps further by actually repelling all of the pain and fatigue the enemy has taken and can force them to take it all at once, giving the victim unfathomable pain.

• The people visualizing their death is Sense Manipulation, IE they can also feel their gruesome and graphic deaths in express detail as described by Pickle’s handler.

Zoro isn't afraid of death or getting mutilated, hell he usually mutilates himself more than anyone.

• Granted, slicing through water is easy, but when Musashi cut it, it didn’t reform. The water stayed cut. Also, cutting through steel harder than steel is good, but that feat suffers the same issue as the other cutting feats: its either outdone by cutting through a ballistic right shield/bulletproof vest or its just AP, depending on how we’re looking at these feats.

Well I seriously doubt the water actually stayed permanently cut, Musashi used a sword and a sword swung by someone like Musashi is gonna separate the two ends and stop them from reforming. And cutting through a thin riot shield or bullet proof vest isn't remotely comparable to cutting apart large amounts of steel. First of all there's a very tiny amount of metal in a riot shield, and a bulletproof vest doesn't offer resistance to cutting or slashing attacks. A bulletproof vest is made from Kevlar and typically thick ceramic plates, and by the way those aren't "bullet proof" either as they're only rated to withstand a curtain amount of shots.

• Has Zoro ever struck something with the sharp end of his sword and not cut it?

yes and so has his teacher.

• Like, has he actually displayed that feat? Because a vague statement from Zoro’s teacher doesn’t actually tell me anything. It could be metaphorical (use your sword however you want), as he can literally not cut want he doesn’t want to cut by not slashing it with his sword.

False, it all depends if Zoro wants his sword to cut or not. If Zoro conveys his will to his sword it will understand, if he doesn't want the sword to cut what he's aiming for it won't harm anything, but if he wants to cut it it won't happen. This again, is a stable rule in One Piece for all swordsmen this concept is in no way shape or form hyperbolic, it's a concept swordsman in One Piece actually utilizes.

• As mentioned prior, Musashi and Zoro’s precognition cancel each other out and Musashi Go-no-Sens him, staying a step ahead.

And at that point Zoro still has his own reactions to use, he can either dodge or block and blocking is very easy especially with 3 swords.

• Breakdancing is a really bad feat of footwork. Even irl, a breakdancer would get slaughter in a fight by anyone with any footwork geared for combat. Also, all of the guards were following his movements and reacting, so he wasn’t blitzing. It wasn’t praised as a feat of speed, but footwork. Does Zoro have any footwork feats?

Context, breakdancing in a fight isn't off course a good idea. Here Zoro utilizes it accordingly, and he's not actually breakdancing so don't take that part literally lol. And yes he does but I'll wait to post them for when we compare feats.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Also... Zoro can burn Musashi with this attack... as well as Asura if Zoro really needs to but he highly doubt Musashi will reach that point of Zoro... (this is the opponent he fought) doesn’t really look that cool but he is VERY strong

 

[Tots_Real]

Zoro FRA

 

[EliminatorVenom]

I'll analyse this later, this thread seems quite promising. To be honest, on a first glance, this seems a case of "if Zoro keeps afar, he wins, if Musashi gets close, he wins".

 

[LordGinSama]

Disagree entirely, Zoro's durability negation in this key would be incredible lethal in close quarters combat, Rashomon and Dragon-Blaze would result in a one shot unless Musashi can survive being cleaved in half or burnt into dust inside out.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Okay, from what I looked on the profiles, Dragon-Blaze creates fire where the person was cut, and Rashomon has this: "Goken type Swordsmen and those who have reached The pinnacle of Swordsmanship are stated to be capable of cutting any material as long as they will it, whether it be flesh or steel however the full extent to which this can be applied is unknown".

Am I missing something? Because unless I am, Dragon-Blaze can't really one-shot/burn someone to a crisp unless the attack already strikes someone on a place they'd already die being struck at, as the burn covers the cutting line.

I'll consider the other as valid, but I'll already say that I take it with a pinch of salt. The way the statement is written feels less like durability negation, and more like some form of flowery prose about the capabilities of the style or something. Like some martial arts instructors would say that "if you train, no flesh will resist your cuts!", and then considering that as negating durability against flesh. Idk how to express it, some form of gloating? But I'll be fair and take the statement to face value, as it is on the profile and it'd be dishonest to do otherwise, and I may be missing context.

 

[LordGinSama]

Okay, from what I looked on the profiles, Dragon-Blaze creates fire where the person was cut, and Rashomon has this: "Goken type Swordsmen and those who have reached The pinnacle of Swordsmanship are stated to be capable of cutting any material as long as they will it, whether it be flesh or steel however the full extent to which this can be applied is unknown".

Am I missing something? Because unless I am, Dragon-Blaze can't really one-shot/burn someone to a crisp unless the attack already strikes someone on a place they'd already die being struck at, as the burn covers the cutting line.

No, Dragon-Blaze sets the wound on fire and the flames are injected into the victim from the wound, these are also blue flames which has a ridiculously high temperature. It spawned on Ryuma's slash wound and formed flames inside himself which combusted and set him ablaze, vaporizing him soon afterwards.

I'll consider the other as valid, but I'll already say that I take it with a pinch of salt. The way the statement is written feels less like durability negation, and more like some form of flowery prose about the capabilities of the style or something. Like some martial arts instructors would say that "if you train, no flesh will resist your cuts!", and then considering that as negating durability against flesh. Idk how to express it, some form of gloating? But I'll be fair and take the statement to face value, as it is on the profile and it'd be dishonest to do otherwise, and I may be missing context.

Missing context, the statement is flowery language as it's repeated in the series dozens of times and swordmen literally utilize that very concept so there are feats for it.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

No, Dragon-Blaze sets the wound on fire and the flames are injected into the victim from the wound, these are also blue flames which has a ridiculously high temperature. It spawned on Ryuma's slash wound and formed flames inside himself which combusted and set him ablaze, vaporizing him soon afterwards.

Oh, that changes things. That could be added to the profile, the way it is worded in the profile implies is that it simply covers the wounds in flames.

Missing context, the statement is flowery language as it's repeated in the series dozens of times and swordmen literally utilize that very concept so there are feats for it.

Being repeated doesn't makes it less of a flowery language (Case in point, in real life the expression "lightning-fast" is so common it might be applied to someone several times over the course of their life. Doesn't mean they have the speed of lightning), but the part of using it as a concept is interesting. Care to give some examples?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Oh, that changes things. That could be added to the profile, the way it is worded in the profile implies is that it simply covers the wounds in flames.


Being repeated doesn't makes it less of a flowery language (Case in point, in real life the expression "lightning-fast" is so common it might be applied to someone several times over the course of their life. Doesn't mean they have the speed of lightning), but the part of using it as a concept is interesting. Care to give some examples?

It's quite unknown how Swordsman can cut anything and nothing but it is by conveying their will into the blade and using perfect precision and speed.... So it doesn't mean you need to attack super fast... If that is even what you wanted to know

 

[Schnee_One]

I feel like I should mention Zoro absolutely one shots if he connects an attack. Musashi is a major glass cannon

 

[DaReaperMan]

If he amps high enough, the low end for Baki Low 7-B is 1.2 Megatons. Which is Musashi's durability.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

If he amps high enough, the low end for Baki Low 7-B is 1.2 Megatons. Which is Musashi's durability.

Zoro has Durability Negation... And a speed Amp with that durability negation attack

 

[DaReaperMan]

Zoro has Durability Negation... And a speed Amp with that durability negation attack

You argued Zoro would one shot because Musashi is a glass cannon just now, I know he can neg dura.