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Rimuru Vs The Player (Wizard 101)

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I am just I asked honestly because I don't a CRT just to get answers. I known that most question and answers thread are answered at all anyway, Zenkaibattery1.


I am asking because of this:

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2; Was going to destroy the concept of chaos and shadow to destroy Grandfather Spider.)

I don't see the claim that he was going to destroy GrandFather Spider so I think it should be removed.
 
He wasn't going to destroy Grandfather Spider in Empryea, he was going to destroy Grandfather in mirage. He destroyed The Storm Titan in Empryea. Two different scenario's and two different missions
 
Rimuru will stop time, and make susanoo (https://tensura.fandom.com/wiki/Tyrant_King_Susanoo) and other passive skills active, it makes it always get priority, in tensura universe time usage stops not only to stop time, but will make all magic and teleportation or rewind time not work. Summary once again

Battle starts

Before the player opens his mouth, Rimuru stops the time, activates Susanoo (https://tensura.fandom.com/wiki/Tyrant_King_Susanoo), gets priority

BFR with Void God Azathoth (https://tensura.fandom.com/wiki/Void_God_Azathoth) the player cannot teleport, all skills are taken and lose consciousness. (http://gurotranslation.blogspot.com/2018/11/tensei-shitara-slime-datta-ken-chapter-248.html)
 
Zenkaibattery1 said:
He wasn't going to destroy Grandfather Spider in Empryea, he was going to destroy Grandfather in mirage. He destroyed The Storm Titan in Empryea. Two different scenario's and two different missions
Click to expand...
Honestly, I think the scans should say so on his profile because the stories are diverse and numerous enough.


What about Regenerationn where did it happen: Regenerated after the Aeythr Titan killed him and destroyed his very essence; I don't see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYesBMel6tI&feature=youtu.be&t=580
 
Rajaharem, the Player got Acausality Type 4 and 5 so Rimuru Time abilities should not work against him. It is one of the reasons why I didn't mention Precognition as an argument.

I think taking the Player's skills aways can work though.
 
Before I say anything else, I have two important questions:

First: I have seen it mentioned more than once on this thread, but what exactly does "in all of existence" refer to? Please be specific here what sort of feat it comes with. Because otherwise it's impossible to classify the range, or otherwise becomes the NLF "affects whatever I want it to affect". I mean from the way it's worded you could even interpret it as 2-A or even 1-B. Furthermore is there any feat showing this sort of "in all of existence" spell/song/ability working outside the boundaries of the Creator's creations, or creations of the Creator's creations?

Second: How, specifically, does the Player's Concept Manipulation (type 2) work and what are its conditions/cast time, as well as feats?
 
Im just give last Reply in this thread, i was sick atm maybe because i overworked in this week so i want to rest for entire weekend

As i said above im pretty sure only Concepts manip Will work on Rimuru, you always said Rimuru cannot kill The player, If Rimuru Steal/absorbs/eat your soul thats mean he Will replaced you form existence, he Will become you, Bartleby Will revival you? I think interference from outside is prohibited in match, even if its permitted still doenst matter, because the Bartleby Will see Rimuru as you thus he Will not revive the player again, as Rimuru himself become the new Divine paradox, just like when Rimuru Absorbs angel, because angel received power from the concepts of light, Rimuru get it after he Absorbs angel and that angel cannot Resurrect again as Rimuru replaced that angel from receiving power from light
 
Zenkai," it" was referring to Titanic Lullaby from Ben's post above and did mentioned the other song to highlight I was was talking about Song, I thought this would be clear. My mistake for the confusion.
 
Honestly, I forgot the storm, who resists Conceptual manipulation, and his destruction concept feat since Grandfather spider's, I remember came first. By logic, one could infer The Player concept's feat works via his normal attack as he would not be be holding back/Storm Titan has resists, I guess he easily oneshots Rimuru so this match was a stomp
 
NeoSuperior said:
Before I say anything else, I have two important questions:
First: I have seen it mentioned more than once on this thread, but what exactly does "in all of existence" refer to? Please be specific here what sort of feat it comes with. Because otherwise it's impossible to classify the range, or otherwise becomes the NLF "affects whatever I want it to affect". I mean from the way it's worded you could even interpret it as 2-A or even 1-B. Furthermore is there any feat showing this sort of "in all of existence" spell/song/ability working outside the boundaries of the Creator's creations, or creations of the Creator's creations?

Second: How, specifically, does the Player's Concept Manipulation (type 2) work and what are its conditions/cast time, as well as feats?
Click to expand...
"what exactly does "in all of existence" refer to?"

The Spiral is regarded as a singular universe in regards to the game's vocabulary. However, said universe houses a lot of alternate dimensions and timelines, all of which exist alongside the rest of the Spiral. Each world of the Spiral actually has its own flow of time which is inconsistent to the rest of them (something that happened centuries ago in one world may not have happened yet for another world). The Spiral was created by Raven using Spider's "essence" to power it. When WOG was asked about whether or not Raven and Spider could destroy all of existence, his exact words were "Yes, or at least if they couldn't destroy all of existence, they could wipe away all the parts that mortals live in " Mortals in this instance being anyone who wasn't them.


"Furthermore is there any feat showing this sort of "in all of existence" spell/song/ability working outside the boundaries of the Creator's creations, or creations of the Creator's creations?"

It's unlikely the Titanic Lullaby surpasses the Creator, but it's possible that it might be able to. We only know that the Creator exists and that he created the Big Three from the franchise. For all we know, he might be weaker than them... but given how creators in fiction usually work, I doubt that's the case.

"How, specifically, does the Player's Concept Manipulation (type 2) work and what are its conditions/cast time, as well as feats?"

It's nothing flashy. The game doesn't care much about how cool everything looks, it's just his magic. His magic is capable of harming and defeating the likes of Grandfather Spider (who was in a weakened state) and later on the Aethyr Titan (in Divine Paradox form).

Spider actually used this at the end of their battle in Mirage to taunt the Player , knowing that they wouldn't deal the finishing blow.
 
@Raj

Type 4 and 5 Acausality

BFR- The Player can do the same thing. In fact he can teleport back to his own house, and use a world door to come back.

@GLH

I'm sorry, but I can't understand half of what you're saying due to grammar and spelling. Could you prehaps shorten it down so I could respond?

If I am understanding correctly you are talking about Soul manipulation and it taking over The Player. Me and Ben have already responded to this many times now, I don't know why you are still bringing it up. Also, Omniscient future and past view, it ain't getting past The Player.

@Neo

All of existence refers to the Wizard101 Multiverse, as everything across it is formed by Grandfather Spider's concepts, and yet it was affected when the Lullaby was sung. And yes, it has worked out of The Creator's creation. The Creator literally only made the beginning. The first universe, and then he bounced. Raven and Spider are the one's who created everything else. Verse equalization probably dictates that regardless, the Lullaby will work.

Once again, assuming this doesn't work, his concept manipulation will do the rest

His Concept Manipulation comes from killing the embodiment of Storm Magic, and destroying the concept of Storm Magic across existence, throwing it out of the system of magic which is what the multiverse works on, and thus affecting Magic as a whole; throwing it out of balance. That, and when he harmed Grandfather Spider in Mirage, we were told all of reality was affected, but it hasn't been revealed how just yet. And as Elizhaa just said, it was from his regular attacks that killed the embodiment of Storm Magic and harmed Grandfather Spider. Probably a stomp since it's from his regular attacks in that case as mentioned already

@Elizhaa

Probably is a stomp in that case, since his Concept Manipulation comes from basic attacks that were in fact heavily amplified by the paradox essence, allowing them to kill and destroy the concept of storm magic
 
I agree with @neo that the reach of the lullaby should be specific because if you said all existent in the player multiverse( which is only until 2-B) that means you must specify the number in range, but if you @zen still insist of tthe player range to countless multiverse you should change the player tier to minimum 2-A
 
OK, this might be my last set of questions depending on the answers I get:

First: How many MULTIverses exist in Wizard101? How many Universes and/or Multiverses can The Player (Paradox Key) create/destroy in a row at full capacity and how much engergy/mana would such an endeavor cost and how long would it take for the used energy to be regenerated? In other words, what is the Player's actual AP?

Second: Why does the Storm Titan's embodiment of Storm/Storm Magic warrant Concept Manipulation (type 2)? Isn't it just type 3? How does it "transcend reality"? Also on the Storm Titan's page there doesn't seem to be any Resistance to Concept Manipulation (type 3 and lower) for some reason.

(And on an unrelated note: There is a wrong line about the Storm Titan being put to sleep with the Creation Song, shouldn't that be the Titan's Lullaby instead?)
 
Zen

Sorry, then just ignore me, my head hurts as i said i was sick atm, plus my phone auto correct is annoying.
 
"First: How many MULTIverses exist in Wizard101? How many Universes and/or Multiverses can The Player (Paradox Key) create/destroy in a row at full capacity and how much engergy/mana would such an endeavor cost and how long would it take for the used energy to be regenerated? In other words, what is the Player's actual AP?"

Paradox>>>>>>>>>>Aeythr Titan>3 Titans>Chaos Heart (Now)>Chaos Heart (Before First Worlds destruction)>Endless upon endless upon endless timelines/universes.

"Second: Why does the Storm Titan's embodiment of Storm/Storm Magic warrant Concept Manipulation (type 2)? Isn't it just type 3? How does it "transcend reality"? Also on the Storm Titan's page there doesn't seem to be any Resistance to Concept Manipulation (type 3 and lower) for some reason."

I've already contacted staff about this. Type 2 Concept Manipulation is when a concept shapes reality, and affecting said concept will affect everything that acts in said concept. For it to be type 2 from that, it needs to be able to survive the destruction of things that participate in said concept/remain independent. The Storm Titan's concept of Storm Magic forms Storm Magic across reality, all forms of storms and lightning particpate in it. On top of that, we've killed multiple beings of storm magic throughout the game and each of those beings participate in the storms titans storm magic, and the titan's concept was not affected at all when they were destroyed. His brothers concepts have survived the alternation and disruption/destruction of a conceptual form of magic, which scales back to the storm titan

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2806869
 
"First: How many MULTIverses exist in Wizard101? How many Universes and/or Multiverses can The Player (Paradox Key) create/destroy in a row at full capacity and how much engergy/mana would such an endeavor cost and how long would it take for the used energy to be regenerated? In other words, what is the Player's actual AP?"

Paradox>>>>>>>>>>Aeythr Titan>3 Titans>Chaos Heart (Now)>Chaos Heart (Before First Worlds destruction)>Endless upon endless upon endless timelines/universes.

So how many multiverse exactly in number? Again as I said the player tiering is only 2-B so it cannot be endless
 
Endless? So its not Countless, then its should be 2 A, Endless is synonym of Infinite isnt it?
 
Endless can also be interpreted as just being a really, really big number, not necessarily infinite. Hence why they aren't 2-A, there has to be an outright statement of infinite universes.
 
I don't quite understand why "endless" is taken as a figure of speech, but "all of existence" is taken literally.


Anyway, since both Wizard101verse and Slimeverse don't specify the number of Universes a Multiverse contains, can we just assume that they are the same due to verse-equalisation? In that case what matters for AP in this case would probably be to ignore how many universes you can create/destroy in one go, and instead ask:

How many MULTIverses (containing the equalized amount of Universes) can the Player create/destroy by depleting all magic/mana/energy reserves?
 
NeoSuperior said:
I don't quite understand why "endless" is taken as a figure of speech, but "all of existence" is taken literally.

Anyway, since both Wizard101verse and Slimeverse don't specify the number of Universes a Multiverse contains, can we just assume that they are the same due to verse-equalisation? In that case what matters for AP in this case would probably be to ignore how many universes you can create/destroy in one go, and instead ask:

How many MULTIverses (containing the equalized amount of Universes) can the Player create/destroy by depleting all magic/mana/energy reserves?
Click to expand...
"I don't quite understand why "endless" is taken as a figure of speech, but "all of existence" is taken literally."

It's still being debated on whether or not "endless" should be taken literally. If it helps, there is a statement from Bartleby that says there are countless worlds throughout the Spiral.

"How many MULTIverses (containing the equalized amount of Universes) can the Player create/destroy by depleting all magic/mana/energy reserves?"

I don't really know. There are several different dimensions from inside the Spiral, all with unique properties, but I don't know if we can count them as separate universes. If we count timelines, however, then the number is infinite due to the nature of the Sands of Time (there's a scan that will provide context to that but only Zenkai has it right now).
 
https://imgur.com/a/SJ0VrvL

Each grain in the sands of time is a past/present in the Spiral. Travelling back to the past in the time travel quest, we learn that each past is a seperate timeline . However, endless in the wiki is considered as "countless" rather than infinite. Everytime we returned to the sands of time, we were told the sands were "Even more endless than before", so "endless" are continiously being created in a short amount of time

The Player scaling from The Chaos Heart can destroy all the "endless" timelines in one shot if he wanted too. And since he stands at the same cosmic level as the Gods, he should be literally blink away all the timelines and survive it's destruction at the same time. By the way, the divine paradox has "infinite" mana as it never depleates in the divine paradox form, no matter how many spells he uses. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4-NOMYXsV4&t=209s

Either way, I don't see how this is relevant for the debate and nothing said has refuted any argument

Player's concept manipulation>>>>>>, along with the fact that the player can have a passive amplify of spells to well over 100,000x

And that's even assuming Rimuru can survive the Lullaby, which no one has given a respone as to why it would not work. All reasons to it failing have been debunked already.
 
HenryWong122 said:
Are we up to 6 votes for each?
Click to expand...
It won't count as match, the Player have conceptual attacks at Type which Rimuru has no resistance too.
 
24 hour grace. Jeez I didn't realize how long this thread has gone on for.

@Elizhaa

Why is this a stomp though? I've seen multiple threads where a character has won with a specific ability despite another character not having resistance? I honestly don't think this is a stomp since Rimuru can win, but The Player's victory conditions are more powerful
 
HenryWong122, this is a stomp, Rimuru don't resist Concept Type 2 so he will get on shot by any attacks even with Mid-Godly regen. He can only win if he absorbs the Player and this is tall order.
 
This is probably my last question: The reason I asked for the strength of the Player's multiverse creation/destruction capabilities was due to a possible huge massive AP difference. Can the Player even create/destroy Multiverses, or can the Player only create/destroy Universes?
 
Zenkaibattery1 said:
24 hour grace. Jeez I didn't realize how long this thread has gone on for.
@Elizhaa

Why is this a stomp though? I've seen multiple threads where a character has won with a specific ability despite another character not having resistance? I honestly don't think this is a stomp since Rimuru can win.
Click to expand...
SBA, In character, but willing to kill. The Player, in characters, would used his best abilities in this fight. In this case, Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) which Rimuru doesn't resist; He also used it against Storm Titan who only survives the attacks as it had resistance.

'State of mind: 'In character, but willing to kill. The characters will employ their usual battle strategies, including flaws such as being casual, however, must be willing to kill the opponent even if they usually won't.
Furthermore characters will not give up of their own accord. That means a character that is uninterested or sees no chance of winning won't simply leave and characters wouldn't simply become friends with each other. This doesn't prevent a character being made to give up, because the other character manipulates them via things like, for example, mind control, fear inducement, psychological tricks or superhuman charisma.
 
NeoSuperior said:
This is probably my last question:
The reason I asked for the strength of the Player's multiverse creation/destruction capabilities was due to a possible huge massive AP difference. Can the Player even create/destroy Multiverses, or can the Player only create/destroy Universes?
Click to expand...
Not sure, by Powerscaling, he can hurt those who can.
 
Zenkaibattery1 said:
24 hour grace. Jeez I didn't realize how long this thread has gone on for.

@Elizhaa

Why is this a stomp though? I've seen multiple threads where a character has won with a specific ability despite another character not having resistance? I honestly don't think this is a stomp since Rimuru can win, but The Player's victory conditions are more powerful
Click to expand...
Elizhaa said:
HenryWong122, this is a stomp, Rimuru don't resist Concept Type 2 so he will get on shot by any attacks even with Mid-Godly regen. He can only win if he absorbs the Player and this is tall order.
Click to expand...
This does indeed seem to be a stomp now that I look at it again. I don't think Rimuru got anything that gets past Acausality type 5. The best Rimuru could manage would be an inconclusive result, somehow. For example it could be argued that Causality Manipulation type 2 for The Player has limitations. Is the Player able to one-shot any beings that don't possess causality manipulation resistance type 2 or higher?

Rimuru doesn't have any viable victory conditions anymore, either way.
 
The Acausality Type 5 thread concept arguments should be used since the thread never concluded.
 
Welp. The grace ended a while ago, and since it's a stomp, I guess we should get an admin or discussion thread mod to close this.
 
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