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Rimuru Vs The Player (Wizard 101)
- Thread starter The_Causality
- Start date
- Status
- 3,110
- 870
You went from
" Ciel is just a mass of energy who have awareness and exist just to "thinking" she is truly abstract existance which exist deep whithin RImuru soul"
to "He is A.I" Like, which one is it?? You can't change your argument because the previous one was shown to be wrong. It's like a begging for Rimuru to pull out a victory.
Let's pretend the Lullaby doesn't work. Let's pretend he reactively evolves and fires it back at The Player. I'll argue for Rimuru a little bit
The Player, regenerates because mid-godly Regenerationn. Even if you want to assume this won't work, Bartleby sings the song of creation to bring him back instantly, or just in a boring world, brings him back.
Concept Manipulation. GG. TBH, I still don't know what Rimuru's victory condition is
" Ciel is just a mass of energy who have awareness and exist just to "thinking" she is truly abstract existance which exist deep whithin RImuru soul"
to "He is A.I" Like, which one is it?? You can't change your argument because the previous one was shown to be wrong. It's like a begging for Rimuru to pull out a victory.
Let's pretend the Lullaby doesn't work. Let's pretend he reactively evolves and fires it back at The Player. I'll argue for Rimuru a little bit
- The Player's affiliation to the creator of the song will stop him from being put to sleep. Bartleby is in-verse, the only person who can wake you up since it is his song.
The Player, regenerates because mid-godly Regenerationn. Even if you want to assume this won't work, Bartleby sings the song of creation to bring him back instantly, or just in a boring world, brings him back.
Concept Manipulation. GG. TBH, I still don't know what Rimuru's victory condition is
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The heck mate
she is a Mass of Energy, Exist just to thinking, Exist deep whithin Rimuru soul, abstract, so to put this in simple way you can understand basically she is an A.I.
"Manas special Ultimate Skills who can act as such and talk independently like some kind of A.I., or it is possible for just about any Ultimate Skill to have their owner's personality 'rub off' on them with extended periods of time together, thus turning into this kind of talking, self-acting A.I." here from wiki
she is a Mass of Energy, Exist just to thinking, Exist deep whithin Rimuru soul, abstract, so to put this in simple way you can understand basically she is an A.I.
"Manas special Ultimate Skills who can act as such and talk independently like some kind of A.I., or it is possible for just about any Ultimate Skill to have their owner's personality 'rub off' on them with extended periods of time together, thus turning into this kind of talking, self-acting A.I." here from wiki
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So..... she is literally the same thing as Grandfather Spider's shaodw magic? Awesome. Yep, The Titanic Lullaby has put something like that to sleep. The mere fact that it can put sleepless sentiant, conceptual forces should be enough to show that
Either way, my previous comment has assumed the lullaby fails and Rimuru reactively evolves. Like, due to The Player's upgrades that are gonna go through, the reasonings for Rimuru winning is gone. Player regens or Bartleby brings him back and CaC uses his concept manipualation. And that is assuming the Lullaby won't work, which evidently it will
Either way, my previous comment has assumed the lullaby fails and Rimuru reactively evolves. Like, due to The Player's upgrades that are gonna go through, the reasonings for Rimuru winning is gone. Player regens or Bartleby brings him back and CaC uses his concept manipualation. And that is assuming the Lullaby won't work, which evidently it will
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Ciel is able to take control over Rimuru's body even when he is asleep/unconscious, or rather she is not affected by anything that makes Rimuru sleep, like even if Rimuru's soul, which she resides in, gets transformed, restructured, damaged, or otherwise affected enough to cause Rimuru to have to sleep/hibernate/lose consciousness, it still has no effect on her - and that still was an inferior version of Ciel. Moreover Ciel has the feat of not being detected by anyone in the whole cast of the series at any time aside from instances where Rimuru/Ciel revealed her existence to others on their own and she even managed to isolate Rimuru and herself from the "Voice of the World" (System that governs the multiverse) back when Rimuru was still only Low 4-C. So I don't think the Player would even be able to detect her in the first place.
Furthermore, yes, Reactive Evolution is indeed able to counteract any attacks, escpacially those whose effects where used directly on Rimuru himself, since that's an even better source of information. It was used that way in previous VS battles and there were no objections to that.
Furthermore, yes, Reactive Evolution is indeed able to counteract any attacks, escpacially those whose effects where used directly on Rimuru himself, since that's an even better source of information. It was used that way in previous VS battles and there were no objections to that.
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"Ciel is able to take control over Rimuru's body even when he is asleep/unconscious, or rather she is not affected by anything that makes Rimuru sleep, like even if Rimuru's soul, which she resides in, gets transformed, restructured, damaged, or otherwise affected enough to cause Rimuru to have to sleep/hibernate/lose consciousness, it still has no effect on her - and that still was an inferior version of Ciel"NeoSuperior said:
I'm not going to get into the Titanic Lullaby vs. Ciel argument, I'll leave that up to Zenkai because quite frankly I don't think the Player even needs to use it. I will say that soul manipulation is considered a low-tier ability in Wizard101, so the Titanic Lullaby should affect souls just by scaling.
"I don't think the Player would even be able to detect her in the first place."
If Ciel has any form of aura or magical energy within her, then the Player should be able to sense her. I can't think of a single reason as to why he wouldn't be able to considering he can sense so many other things related to magic, and even some that aren't connected to magic. He can even tell what a specific buff/debuff will do to someone just by looking at it, even if it's something unique to a single person AND he only sees it once throughout the entire fight.
"Furthermore, yes, Reactive Evolution is indeed able to counteract any attacks, escpacially those whose effects where used directly on Rimuru himself, since that's an even better source of information. It was used that way in previous VS battles and there were no objections to that."
The Player literally has spells that prevent you from being able to remove or alter the effects of a spell while and after they've been casted.
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Ciel is able to take control over Rimuru's body even when he is asleep/unconscious, or rather she is not affected by anything that makes Rimuru sleep, like even if Rimuru's soul, which she resides in, gets transformed, restructured, damaged, or otherwise affected enough to cause Rimuru to have to sleep/hibernate/lose consciousness, it still has no effect on her - and that still was an inferior version of Ciel. Moreover Ciel has the feat of not being detected by anyone in the whole cast of the series at any time aside from instances where Rimuru/Ciel revealed her existence to others on their own and she even managed to isolate Rimuru and herself from the "Voice of the World" (System that governs the multiverse) back when Rimuru was still only Low 4-C. So I don't think the Player would even be able to detect her in the first place.
>Ciel won't be able to do it if "it" goes to sleep as well. The Titanic Lullaby put all aspects of Grandfather Spider to sleep. Rimuru is no where near the threat Grandfather Spider is, especially when you put his Shadow Magic, a sentiant conceptual force into play, which was also put to sleep, weirdly enough. Legit if worst comes to shove, The Player could just seal Ciel and Rimuru away. Said sealing being capable enough to seal away essence's, body's, hearts, conceptual sentiant forces etc; In essnece, the Lullaby can put such beings to sleep. The characters in the game can sense forces within a person's body, soul and mind. Even the fodders of Empryea who are like, town level at best can sense such beings, so there is no reason The Player won't be able to sense this A.I with his superior senses. Also, I can't believe I forgot this Bartleby has Omniscient view. As his Scion and taking over his position, even IF we assume his regular senses won't be able to detect Ciel, there is no way Bartleby's omniscient view wouldn't be able too.
Even if you want to say Rimuru comes back, there is no way Rimuru is going to perma kill the player. Mid-Godly Regenerationn from being Bartleby's scion, and Bartleby's own power to resurrect the player from erasure, or wake him up if the Lullaby is fired back at him. The votes for Rimuru come from "He'll survive the lullaby, reactively evolve and kill him", which is moot now.
"Furthermore, yes, Reactive Evolution is indeed able to counteract any attacks, escpacially those whose effects where used directly on Rimuru himself, since that's an even better source of information. It was used that way in previous VS battles and there were no objections to that."
The part I bolded really sounds like NLF. Just becaue it worked on previous threads, doesn't mean it's going to work on every single thread. Most of this is commented on above. Also, Information Analysis, which we have already covered. Which, funnily enough, helps him here.
Overall:
The Player can sense such beings. Even if we assume he can't, as Bartleby's scion and now having taken over his position, and infused in Bartleby's magic/essence, the omniscient view will objectively let the player know about Ciel. With that, The Titanic Lullaby puts it all to sleep, across all of existnece. Also, to add onto that, The Player has spell that "protect" techniques from being copied or otherwise learned. Eitherway, I have gone over why reactive evolution, resistances, immunaties, and being sleepless won't help against the lullaby, multiple times now. I don't know why it's being ignored
Assuming Rimuru can survive the Lullaby, fires the lullaby back or uses his instant death techniques to end the player:
Player regenerates or Bartleby sings the song of creation to bring him back, or simply brings him back. From there on, Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) says goodnight to Rimuru, and the plenthora of abilities The Player has to aid him in the fight, which resistances will not help much against, and The Player's power to regenerate from erasure, and the protection with Bartleby, there is no way Rimuru is going to kill him
>Ciel won't be able to do it if "it" goes to sleep as well. The Titanic Lullaby put all aspects of Grandfather Spider to sleep. Rimuru is no where near the threat Grandfather Spider is, especially when you put his Shadow Magic, a sentiant conceptual force into play, which was also put to sleep, weirdly enough. Legit if worst comes to shove, The Player could just seal Ciel and Rimuru away. Said sealing being capable enough to seal away essence's, body's, hearts, conceptual sentiant forces etc; In essnece, the Lullaby can put such beings to sleep. The characters in the game can sense forces within a person's body, soul and mind. Even the fodders of Empryea who are like, town level at best can sense such beings, so there is no reason The Player won't be able to sense this A.I with his superior senses. Also, I can't believe I forgot this Bartleby has Omniscient view. As his Scion and taking over his position, even IF we assume his regular senses won't be able to detect Ciel, there is no way Bartleby's omniscient view wouldn't be able too.
Even if you want to say Rimuru comes back, there is no way Rimuru is going to perma kill the player. Mid-Godly Regenerationn from being Bartleby's scion, and Bartleby's own power to resurrect the player from erasure, or wake him up if the Lullaby is fired back at him. The votes for Rimuru come from "He'll survive the lullaby, reactively evolve and kill him", which is moot now.
"Furthermore, yes, Reactive Evolution is indeed able to counteract any attacks, escpacially those whose effects where used directly on Rimuru himself, since that's an even better source of information. It was used that way in previous VS battles and there were no objections to that."
The part I bolded really sounds like NLF. Just becaue it worked on previous threads, doesn't mean it's going to work on every single thread. Most of this is commented on above. Also, Information Analysis, which we have already covered. Which, funnily enough, helps him here.
Overall:
The Player can sense such beings. Even if we assume he can't, as Bartleby's scion and now having taken over his position, and infused in Bartleby's magic/essence, the omniscient view will objectively let the player know about Ciel. With that, The Titanic Lullaby puts it all to sleep, across all of existnece. Also, to add onto that, The Player has spell that "protect" techniques from being copied or otherwise learned. Eitherway, I have gone over why reactive evolution, resistances, immunaties, and being sleepless won't help against the lullaby, multiple times now. I don't know why it's being ignored
Assuming Rimuru can survive the Lullaby, fires the lullaby back or uses his instant death techniques to end the player:
Player regenerates or Bartleby sings the song of creation to bring him back, or simply brings him back. From there on, Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) says goodnight to Rimuru, and the plenthora of abilities The Player has to aid him in the fight, which resistances will not help much against, and The Player's power to regenerate from erasure, and the protection with Bartleby, there is no way Rimuru is going to kill him
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Rimuru does have the ability to simply analyze, copy, and negate the Player's abilities, similar like what he did to Yuuki. From the Player's abilities, there is no defense against that for him. Rimuru resists and or has nearly everything on the Player's profile too. Coupled with the fact that Rimuru has Multple Existence, in which there are SEVERAL of him (one in a space seperated from reality, one in another UNIVERSE), and a clone, there's absolutely no way the Player can put him down either. Constant adaption to his abilities as well as resistances, Rimuru takes this.
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I'll vote Rimuru for Bandits reasons
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What?
@Kingofwolves
@Bandit
I'm sorry, but have you guys followed and read through the thread?
"Rimuru does have the ability to simply analyze, copy, and negate the Player's abilities, similar like what he did to Yuuki. From the Player's abilities, there is no defense against that for him"
We have gone over this multiple times in this thread now. This won't work on The Player because he can block information out and his abilities cannot be copied, analyzied or negated. Read the comments above. He has protection spells that doesn't allow for the dispelling of his, and techniques like the Titanic Lullaby cannot be copied via Reactive evolution.
"Rimuru resists and or has nearly everything on the Player's profile too"
Once again, The Player has Resistance Negation to his magic. Simply being resistant to The Player's victory conditions isn't enough. Immunaity, being sleepless and resistance isn't enough to stop the Titanic Lullaby, as it has worked on sleepless beings who were practically immune to it.
"Coupled with the fact that Rimuru has Multple Existence, in which there are SEVERAL of him (one in a space seperated from reality, one in another UNIVERSE), and a clone, there's absolutely no way the Player can put him down either"
Omg. Please, read through the thread properly. It has been established that the Titanic Lullaby works Across all of existence. So does his Concept Manipulation. Both of those being his victory conditions in this match. If One Rimuru is put away, all versions of Rimuru will be put away with him. Rimuru has no permanant way to put The Player down due to his Mid-Godly Regenerationn and immortality as well. Furthermore, why are multiple abilities being listed down like Rimuru will start with all of them. The battle starts, The Player sings, and all versions of Rimuru get put to sleep, including his "A.I", which I have responded too. Even if we were to assume Rimuru will survive the Lullaby, he has No permanant way to kill him, due to Regenerationn and protection from Bartleby, in which, The Player will kill him with his superior AP and Concept Manipulation. In order to "Adapt", Rimuru will have to survive first. There is No way he will be able to survive The Player's Concept Manipulation if it even leads to that.
Summary once agai
Battle starts
Player sings
Rimuru gets put to sleep or
Rimuru survives, evolves, tries to kill him. Fails as The Player regenerates or Bartleby wakes him up from the Lullaby, and the Player uses concept manipulation to finish the job.
@Elizhaa
No it won't. The Player can shed absorption + Bartleby can pull Rimuru out of The Player. Reminded that the paradox practically Is Bartleby in this form. It honestly seems like seeking for any means for Rimuru to win. Rimuru won't even be able to go for the absorption, assuming it would work. He will be dead or asleep long before he has a chance to go for it. Listing different abilities, one after the other is something I can do right now, but I have chosen to stick to 2, the 2 being his primary go to abilities.
@Kingofwolves
@Bandit
I'm sorry, but have you guys followed and read through the thread?
"Rimuru does have the ability to simply analyze, copy, and negate the Player's abilities, similar like what he did to Yuuki. From the Player's abilities, there is no defense against that for him"
We have gone over this multiple times in this thread now. This won't work on The Player because he can block information out and his abilities cannot be copied, analyzied or negated. Read the comments above. He has protection spells that doesn't allow for the dispelling of his, and techniques like the Titanic Lullaby cannot be copied via Reactive evolution.
"Rimuru resists and or has nearly everything on the Player's profile too"
Once again, The Player has Resistance Negation to his magic. Simply being resistant to The Player's victory conditions isn't enough. Immunaity, being sleepless and resistance isn't enough to stop the Titanic Lullaby, as it has worked on sleepless beings who were practically immune to it.
"Coupled with the fact that Rimuru has Multple Existence, in which there are SEVERAL of him (one in a space seperated from reality, one in another UNIVERSE), and a clone, there's absolutely no way the Player can put him down either"
Omg. Please, read through the thread properly. It has been established that the Titanic Lullaby works Across all of existence. So does his Concept Manipulation. Both of those being his victory conditions in this match. If One Rimuru is put away, all versions of Rimuru will be put away with him. Rimuru has no permanant way to put The Player down due to his Mid-Godly Regenerationn and immortality as well. Furthermore, why are multiple abilities being listed down like Rimuru will start with all of them. The battle starts, The Player sings, and all versions of Rimuru get put to sleep, including his "A.I", which I have responded too. Even if we were to assume Rimuru will survive the Lullaby, he has No permanant way to kill him, due to Regenerationn and protection from Bartleby, in which, The Player will kill him with his superior AP and Concept Manipulation. In order to "Adapt", Rimuru will have to survive first. There is No way he will be able to survive The Player's Concept Manipulation if it even leads to that.
Summary once agai
Battle starts
Player sings
Rimuru gets put to sleep or
Rimuru survives, evolves, tries to kill him. Fails as The Player regenerates or Bartleby wakes him up from the Lullaby, and the Player uses concept manipulation to finish the job.
@Elizhaa
No it won't. The Player can shed absorption + Bartleby can pull Rimuru out of The Player. Reminded that the paradox practically Is Bartleby in this form. It honestly seems like seeking for any means for Rimuru to win. Rimuru won't even be able to go for the absorption, assuming it would work. He will be dead or asleep long before he has a chance to go for it. Listing different abilities, one after the other is something I can do right now, but I have chosen to stick to 2, the 2 being his primary go to abilities.
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I just went through the profiles of the Player, Bartleby and the Creator. There's something very striking that I noticed: None of them have any attack or defense capabilities listed in regards to the soul. That's quite an unexpected weakness there.
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Regenerationn- Mid-Godly. The Player. Scales to Bartleby because the paradox is Bartleby. The Regenerationn of Erasure/when the soul is destroyed. And I do not see how that is relevant to the discussion when soul manipulation was never a relevant factor in any part of the argument. Unless there is direct refutation to any of my point, that is quite irrelevant. And that is not a "weakness", many attacks target the soul in Wizard101, mostly in the Death school, which The Player can tank with no issue. Honestly, that is such a major nit-pick. It's like me going to Rimuru's profile and saying "oh he doesn't have resistance to (Insert ability) I suppose that is quite the weakness!"
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Regenerationn really isn't gonna save the player from soul manipulation, rimuru can use the power of words, bypassing barriers and resistances to soul manipulation, controlling his opponents souls, thereby controlling them.
Anyway not really interested in this match or matches with 2-B rimuru, will just sit back and point out info on what rimuru can do when necessary.
Anyway not really interested in this match or matches with 2-B rimuru, will just sit back and point out info on what rimuru can do when necessary.
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It's relevant to the issue of Ciel at least. Ciel managed to "partially hack" a High 3-A "System" being ("Voice of the World") back when Rimuru was still in the 7-B range (actually even weaker, but there is no key for it and I don't know the tier he'd have). Later Ciel completely isolated Rimuru and herself completely from said High 3-A being while Rimuru was still at High 4-C level, i.e. Ciel has the feat of isolating her host's natural connection from a being almost 2 numbered tiers higher. I doubt an individual without Soul Manipulation can detect Ciel who resides within Rimuru's soul. She also doesn't emit any sort of energy whatsoever since she is a purely abstract existence. Furthermore Rimuru resists Information Analysis and possesses resistance against Soul Manipulation, so there's that.
Also there is an issue with the Creator that I have: The fact that he is "omniscient" but only set at "at least 2-B, likely higher", but it's not actually 2-A, so since these vs battles usually take place in neutral battlegrounds, I have to wonder how that might affect certain abilities that are associated with the Creator. For example would the Titan Lullaby even work "across all existence" if it's a completely seperate multiverse that has been created by neither the Creator himself, nor his own creations? Likewise, would the Player even be able to find or break into Rimuru's own pocket-multiverse?
Also there is an issue with the Creator that I have: The fact that he is "omniscient" but only set at "at least 2-B, likely higher", but it's not actually 2-A, so since these vs battles usually take place in neutral battlegrounds, I have to wonder how that might affect certain abilities that are associated with the Creator. For example would the Titan Lullaby even work "across all existence" if it's a completely seperate multiverse that has been created by neither the Creator himself, nor his own creations? Likewise, would the Player even be able to find or break into Rimuru's own pocket-multiverse?
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The system is 2-C not High 3-A, it manages several parallel universes.
Rimuru didn't have ciel until he became High 4-C so not sure what you're talking about hacking or isolating rimuru from the system.
Vs equalization makes it so both characters can use their abilities in a neutral setting, not sure what the creator being omniscient has to do with the player, omniscience in vs matches is useless normally cause that only gives the character knowledge of their verse, only useful omniscience is knowing the future and what not.
Rimuru didn't have ciel until he became High 4-C so not sure what you're talking about hacking or isolating rimuru from the system.
Vs equalization makes it so both characters can use their abilities in a neutral setting, not sure what the creator being omniscient has to do with the player, omniscience in vs matches is useless normally cause that only gives the character knowledge of their verse, only useful omniscience is knowing the future and what not.
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I said High 3-A because it can't create/destroy multiverses as far as we know. It can only manage it.
And when I said Ciel I meant "Ciel and all her previous forms".
The reason why I asked about the omniscience is due to the Titan Lullaby (and other abilities). If I understood correctly, it has a target-specific 2-B range, else it would put several entire multiverses to sleep as collateral damage. So I wondered if the specific targeting works through the Creator's omniscience or not. If it does, then it would certainly never reach Rimuru's other selves. Otherwise I'd like to know the principle behind how it targets all the other selves of Rimuru. Remember, Rimuru resists Information Analysis. There needs to be a concrete method, or at least a specific medium for how it targets his other selves.
And when I said Ciel I meant "Ciel and all her previous forms".
The reason why I asked about the omniscience is due to the Titan Lullaby (and other abilities). If I understood correctly, it has a target-specific 2-B range, else it would put several entire multiverses to sleep as collateral damage. So I wondered if the specific targeting works through the Creator's omniscience or not. If it does, then it would certainly never reach Rimuru's other selves. Otherwise I'd like to know the principle behind how it targets all the other selves of Rimuru. Remember, Rimuru resists Information Analysis. There needs to be a concrete method, or at least a specific medium for how it targets his other selves.
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High 3-A might become Low 2-C anyway: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2496096#168
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"Regenerationn really isn't gonna save the player from soul manipulation, rimuru can use the power of words, bypassing barriers and resistances to soul manipulation, controlling his opponents souls, thereby controlling them."
Bartleby can snap him out of it and if not the Manipulation of souls is start of game level stuff, it's nothing The Player hasn't dealt with before. Far weaker characters have dealt with that due to their magical powers, and The Player surapsses them many times over, so something of that level will not be an issue. Fodder spells in Wizard101 can control the soul and thus the mind. Also, The Plyaer can bypass resistances as well.
In regards to the omniscience. It doesn't come from The Creator, it comes from Bartleby. The divine Paradox is linked with Bartleby and has taken over his position in the multiverse. He gains everything Bartleby has, which includes omniscience. And yes, his omniscience allows him to see and know the past and the future, which is useful in this battle. Rimuru won't get any surprise attacks on him.
The Titanic Lullaby put Grandfather Spider into an eternal sleep, not only did it do this, it put all forces of his sentiant shadow maigc to sleep as well. Shadow magic forms all of existence and is everywhere throughout the multiverse. That, and The Player has shown he can affect people across all of existence, like when he harmed Grandfather Spider and caused damage across all of existence, and the examples Ben gave + him affecting Falmea in a past timeline, and thus affected her throughout the multiverse.
I even gave an argu,ment as to what would happen if Rimuru somehow was saved by the Lullaby. There is literally no reason given as far as to how Rimuru is going to permanetly end The Player. If he were to survive the lullaby, kill him, erase him, take control of his soul or fire the Lullaby back, then he can either regenerate or Bartleby can sing the Song of Creation to bring him back. Resistances and immunaties, once again, isn't going to help if the Lullaby can literally put sleepless beings to sleep. From there, Concept Manipulation does that rest. There has literally been no counter argument to the scenario in which Rimuru somehow survives the Lullaby, which I really doubt he can. The omniscience view of being able to see the past and the future should tell The Player all he needs to know
Edit: Why is every ability being thrown in by the way? We should be using abilities the characters are more likely to start off with. Literally I can start throwing random abilities The Player has and say "Rimuru doesn't resist and shaodw magic will cut through the resistance! Player wins!"
The Divine Paradox's first thing he did was use Concept Manipulation against The Aeythr Titan to kill him and destroy the concept he embodies across reality.
I prefer however, to go with the Idea of the Titanic Lullaby, as it would be a better option for him to battle. But in character he's going to try and destroy Rimuru. I have yet to see an argument for Rimuru that see's him deal with Concept Manipulation of The Player's level. But let me guess? "Rimuru can survive it!!"??
Bartleby can snap him out of it and if not the Manipulation of souls is start of game level stuff, it's nothing The Player hasn't dealt with before. Far weaker characters have dealt with that due to their magical powers, and The Player surapsses them many times over, so something of that level will not be an issue. Fodder spells in Wizard101 can control the soul and thus the mind. Also, The Plyaer can bypass resistances as well.
In regards to the omniscience. It doesn't come from The Creator, it comes from Bartleby. The divine Paradox is linked with Bartleby and has taken over his position in the multiverse. He gains everything Bartleby has, which includes omniscience. And yes, his omniscience allows him to see and know the past and the future, which is useful in this battle. Rimuru won't get any surprise attacks on him.
The Titanic Lullaby put Grandfather Spider into an eternal sleep, not only did it do this, it put all forces of his sentiant shadow maigc to sleep as well. Shadow magic forms all of existence and is everywhere throughout the multiverse. That, and The Player has shown he can affect people across all of existence, like when he harmed Grandfather Spider and caused damage across all of existence, and the examples Ben gave + him affecting Falmea in a past timeline, and thus affected her throughout the multiverse.
I even gave an argu,ment as to what would happen if Rimuru somehow was saved by the Lullaby. There is literally no reason given as far as to how Rimuru is going to permanetly end The Player. If he were to survive the lullaby, kill him, erase him, take control of his soul or fire the Lullaby back, then he can either regenerate or Bartleby can sing the Song of Creation to bring him back. Resistances and immunaties, once again, isn't going to help if the Lullaby can literally put sleepless beings to sleep. From there, Concept Manipulation does that rest. There has literally been no counter argument to the scenario in which Rimuru somehow survives the Lullaby, which I really doubt he can. The omniscience view of being able to see the past and the future should tell The Player all he needs to know
Edit: Why is every ability being thrown in by the way? We should be using abilities the characters are more likely to start off with. Literally I can start throwing random abilities The Player has and say "Rimuru doesn't resist and shaodw magic will cut through the resistance! Player wins!"
The Divine Paradox's first thing he did was use Concept Manipulation against The Aeythr Titan to kill him and destroy the concept he embodies across reality.
I prefer however, to go with the Idea of the Titanic Lullaby, as it would be a better option for him to battle. But in character he's going to try and destroy Rimuru. I have yet to see an argument for Rimuru that see's him deal with Concept Manipulation of The Player's level. But let me guess? "Rimuru can survive it!!"??
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Summary:
Battle starts. The Player's main go to technique is likely his concept Manipulation. Assuming it isn't, it's the Titanic Lullaby. The arguments against this was that he could resist it, or his reactive evolution can save this, but that is useless if he can't survive it in the first place. It puts sleepless beings to sleep. And I have gone over the whole "A.I" thing already, omniscient past and future view can help with that, as it could just tell The Player Rimuru will survive the Lullaby, in which case he will go with his prefered option of Concept Manipulation, in which, Rimuru has no way of surviving.
Whereas Rimuru himself cannot kill or erase him, put him to sleep, or do anything too negative to The Player due to his connection with Bartleby. You can throw random abilities Rimuru has, but it's useless if he can't use them, because he'll be dead long before he decides too. At the end of the day Quality>Quantity
Battle starts. The Player's main go to technique is likely his concept Manipulation. Assuming it isn't, it's the Titanic Lullaby. The arguments against this was that he could resist it, or his reactive evolution can save this, but that is useless if he can't survive it in the first place. It puts sleepless beings to sleep. And I have gone over the whole "A.I" thing already, omniscient past and future view can help with that, as it could just tell The Player Rimuru will survive the Lullaby, in which case he will go with his prefered option of Concept Manipulation, in which, Rimuru has no way of surviving.
Whereas Rimuru himself cannot kill or erase him, put him to sleep, or do anything too negative to The Player due to his connection with Bartleby. You can throw random abilities Rimuru has, but it's useless if he can't use them, because he'll be dead long before he decides too. At the end of the day Quality>Quantity
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It's always nice to see when all of your arguments are being ignored for no reason whatsoever. Allow me to briefly summarize everything that's been said.
"Rimuru can BFR the Player to another universe!"
The Player can teleport across different universes and timelines.
"Rimuru can resist the Player's attacks!"
The Player can resist Rimuru's attacks as well, plus he has spells and abilities which literally counter damage resistance. But sure, let's ignore that.
"The Player doesn't negate Mid Godly"
Yeah... yeah, he does.
"Rimuru can absorb the Player's powers!"
The Player can absorb Rimuru's powers too, and he has multiple ways of doing so.
"Rimuru has different versions of himself across different universes!"
So does Grandfather Spider, and the Player was still at the point that he could've killed him entirely if he wanted (though Spider was in a weakened state).
"Rimuru has soul manipulation!"
The Player could manipulate souls at town level and resisted soul manipulation at the same time.
"Rimuru has info-analysis!"
So does the Player + the Player can hide his information too.
"The Titanic Lullaby won't work on Ciel because she doesn't need sleep!"
LOLWUT yes it will. It's been shown to be able to work on sleepless beings before.
"The Player can't regenerate from soul manipulation!"
Even the absolute weakest spell cast by the absolute worst spell-casters in the game is capable of healing from that. Even then, there's the Mid Godly and Immortality to consider.
Rimuru has no counter to the Titanic Lullaby that has been brought up as far. It's objective that concept manipulation will kill Rimuru.
"Rimuru can BFR the Player to another universe!"
The Player can teleport across different universes and timelines.
"Rimuru can resist the Player's attacks!"
The Player can resist Rimuru's attacks as well, plus he has spells and abilities which literally counter damage resistance. But sure, let's ignore that.
"The Player doesn't negate Mid Godly"
Yeah... yeah, he does.
"Rimuru can absorb the Player's powers!"
The Player can absorb Rimuru's powers too, and he has multiple ways of doing so.
"Rimuru has different versions of himself across different universes!"
So does Grandfather Spider, and the Player was still at the point that he could've killed him entirely if he wanted (though Spider was in a weakened state).
"Rimuru has soul manipulation!"
The Player could manipulate souls at town level and resisted soul manipulation at the same time.
"Rimuru has info-analysis!"
So does the Player + the Player can hide his information too.
"The Titanic Lullaby won't work on Ciel because she doesn't need sleep!"
LOLWUT yes it will. It's been shown to be able to work on sleepless beings before.
"The Player can't regenerate from soul manipulation!"
Even the absolute weakest spell cast by the absolute worst spell-casters in the game is capable of healing from that. Even then, there's the Mid Godly and Immortality to consider.
Rimuru has no counter to the Titanic Lullaby that has been brought up as far. It's objective that concept manipulation will kill Rimuru.
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Player FRA due to Zenkais, and Bens reasons.
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I pretty sure Rimuru can still dodge Titanic Lullaby.
The Wizard stills need to cast spell to cloak his info. Rimuru doesn't need to info and would read it fast anyway as stated above.Rimuru can fake his info
Rimuru's soul man work on scaled of thousands at once. I am pretty sure the Player doesn't have this resistance.
Rimuru resists power absorption and I am not sure what power the more paly can absorb but I don't it can absorb special abilities like Rimuru can as well.
Yeah... yeah, he does.
> Only COncept Manipulation
The Wizard stills need to cast spell to cloak his info. Rimuru doesn't need to info and would read it fast anyway as stated above.Rimuru can fake his info
Rimuru's soul man work on scaled of thousands at once. I am pretty sure the Player doesn't have this resistance.
Rimuru resists power absorption and I am not sure what power the more paly can absorb but I don't it can absorb special abilities like Rimuru can as well.
- Avarice King Mammo: An ultimate skill ability obtained from Yuuki which specialized in depriving. It can be used to steal his opponents' souls, life, energy, abilities even their minds by re-writing the information in their soul.
Yeah... yeah, he does.
> Only COncept Manipulation
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"The Wizard stills need to cast spell to cloak his info":Elizhaa said:
Cloak is an enchantment that can only be used while casting other spells. It doesn't happen before or after the fact. It happens during the spell it's cloaking is cast.
"Rimuru's soul man work on scaled of thousands at once. I am pretty sure the Player doesn't have this resistance."
As stated repeatedly, the Divine Paradox scales to Bartleby. Bartleby was able to use the Three Titans to create entire races of other Titans which spread across the entire Spiral.
"Rimuru resists power absorption and I am not sure what power the more paly can absorb but I don't it can absorb special abilities like Rimuru can as well."
Again. So does the Player. WOG even confirms this albeit indirectly.
"Spider (then known only as Cob) was still recovering from his confinement - he wasn't up to his full strength. Morganthe was a very powerful foe, and he opted for discretion - he said himself he was afraid of what Morganthe could steal his power if she tried"
Meanwhile, the Player was able to not only defeat Morganthe, but was able to steal her power for himself. It wasn't even a major plot point, it just happened naturally as a side effect from battling against her.
"> Only COncept Manipulation"
And Doom and Gloom.
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So. Wizard101's power absorption only steal powers akin to energy it seems.
Tensei Power Absorption steal it too and special abilities; it doesn't seem like the Player will resist it.
Doom and Gloom?
http://www.wizard101central.com/wiki/TreasureCard:Doom_and_Gloom#axzz5j17Q9F6Q
It doesn't seem like it would do much since Rimuru has regen.
Tensei Power Absorption steal it too and special abilities; it doesn't seem like the Player will resist it.
Doom and Gloom?
http://www.wizard101central.com/wiki/TreasureCard:Doom_and_Gloom#axzz5j17Q9F6Q
It doesn't seem like it would do much since Rimuru has regen.
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"So. Wizard101's power absorption only steal powers akin to energy it seems."Elizhaa said:
...What? Energy is a unit of measurement made to describe the ability to work. Everything has energy. It's like saying his power absorption only steals powers akin to miles. It makes no sense.
"It doesn't seem like it would do much since Rimuru has regen."
Doom and Gloom effects all healing, period. It doesn't matter if it was done through a spell or done naturally. Moreover, there's a better version of it. One that negates healing entirely - and it was cast by a fodder character.
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- Regenerationn is not Healing. I don't think Rimuru ever use Healing on himself at all, just Regenerationn.
- Energy, in context, is Attack Potency
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"I pretty sure Rimuru can still dodge Titanic Lullaby"
Elizhaa, no he can't. The Titanic lullaby is across all of existence. Saying "Rimuru can dodge it" is not an argument and in no way proves he can. It honestly seems like you are dodging the argument being made about it.
"Battle starts. The Player's main go to technique is likely his concept Manipulation. Assuming it isn't, it's the Titanic Lullaby. The arguments against this was that he could resist it, or his reactive evolution can save this, but that is useless if he can't survive it in the first place. It puts sleepless beings to sleep. And I have gone over the whole "A.I" thing already, omniscient past and future view can help with that, as it could just tell The Player Rimuru will survive the Lullaby, in which case he will go with his prefered option of Concept Manipulation, in which, Rimuru has no way of surviving."
^^ That is how the battle will go. There has literally been no critical argument that suggests he can survive anything I said. And I even gave an argument that goes down the road if he were to survive
Elizhaa, no he can't. The Titanic lullaby is across all of existence. Saying "Rimuru can dodge it" is not an argument and in no way proves he can. It honestly seems like you are dodging the argument being made about it.
"Battle starts. The Player's main go to technique is likely his concept Manipulation. Assuming it isn't, it's the Titanic Lullaby. The arguments against this was that he could resist it, or his reactive evolution can save this, but that is useless if he can't survive it in the first place. It puts sleepless beings to sleep. And I have gone over the whole "A.I" thing already, omniscient past and future view can help with that, as it could just tell The Player Rimuru will survive the Lullaby, in which case he will go with his prefered option of Concept Manipulation, in which, Rimuru has no way of surviving."
^^ That is how the battle will go. There has literally been no critical argument that suggests he can survive anything I said. And I even gave an argument that goes down the road if he were to survive
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Zenkaibattery1, I saw the Titanic Lullaby as Singing: https://youtu.be/7_VIOUeJttQ?t=1178. It looks like the Storm Titans who is much weaker than Spider can resist it: https://youtu.be/npxVIPgswTE?t=77 I could infer it working on Spider's is game mechanic
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Thanks for clearing up the misunderstanding. Sorry for coming off as rude, I'm getting over being sick and I'm a lot more irritable when I'm sick.Elizhaa said:
Regarding the Regenerationn vs Healing thing - they're both treated the same way, at least in Wizard101.
When the Player fights Malistare for the final time, he has to destroy his skeletal body in order to win, but as soon as he does that, Malistaire changes into his "Shadow form" and instantly regains his HP back (and then some). This, however, can be negated through the use of Doom and Gloom.
In regards to Attack Potency, a decent argument can be made for that... but the thing is, Morganthe didn't just go around spamming attacks on the Player. She has her own set of buffs and debuffs that she uses pretty much every time you go to fight her, so it's pretty hard to tell either way.
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Wait, it does look like the Player uses it Titanic Lullaby, in battle. Grandfather Spider looks to already had out of commisions by the Aether Titan: https://youtu.be/FYesBMel6tI?t=175 .
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It is singing.Elizhaa said:
No, The Storm Titan wasn't resisting it. He was completely affected when The Storm Paradox chain was destroyed. The only reason he survived was because a magic from Grandmother Raven was keeping him awake, when that was destroyed, he lost. Grandmother Raven exists to counteract Bartleby, which is where the Lullaby comes from.
Also, this Titanic Lullaby used at the end game wasn't as strong as when Bartleby originially sang it, as stated by Bartleby himself. It was also at a point where The Player wasn't the divine paradox and two infinites weaker than The Storm Titan. With him as the paradox, it should be the true, full power lullaby that Bartleby first sang before the first worlds destruction
It working on Spider isn't game mechanic. In fact, it wasn't part of gameplay at all. When Bartleby put the titans to sleep the first time, it put Spider into a deep sleep as well. This isn't a spell, it's a technique
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The Player isn't using the Lullaby there, lolElizhaa said:
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Wait, I am confused about Conceptual Manipulation where does it say The Player was going to destroys Grandfather Spider's Heart: https://youtu.be/FYesBMel6tI?t=580 ; it seems like he wanted to weave back creation, Bartleby even comment that existence went back to his rightful place with Chaos also which highlighted the goal was not destruction: https://youtu.be/FYesBMel6tI?t=737?
I don't think it does at all from what I seen.
I don't think it does at all from what I seen.
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The only time the Titanic Lullaby was actively used in combat was when the Player was fighting against the Storm Titan in his original state before becoming the Aethyr Titan. At the time, it wasn't being sung by him or Bartleby, but rather by the forest itself. There's a bit of context required that I don't feel like getting too deeply into. Basically, each of the trees in the forest represented a certain school of magic and so they all sang the lullaby.Elizhaa said:
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What?
The Player does have it because he is Bartleby as the Divine Paradox. When the battle began, he went to destroy the Aeythr Titan with his concept manipulation, destroying storm magic across existence and throwing magic out of balance. I don't even see how this is relevant to the argument and to be frank, don't understand what you're saying.
The Player does have it because he is Bartleby as the Divine Paradox. When the battle began, he went to destroy the Aeythr Titan with his concept manipulation, destroying storm magic across existence and throwing magic out of balance. I don't even see how this is relevant to the argument and to be frank, don't understand what you're saying.
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