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Rimuru Tempest (Light Novel) vs Gilgamesh (Fate Series)

well I do agree with the idea that some of rimuru haxx are straight up not magic and should work tho, he also has his haxx to turn magic into "non-magic". Gilgamesh still takes it more often than not because they're a minority in rimuru kit, but they do exist
God900 said:
Is a NLF to assume that Gil would resist a Hax that he hasn't shown to resist just becouse of Magic resistance
Click to expand...
is it nlf to assume someone with explicit resistance to space manip wouldn't resist a specific kind of space manip because he never did in lore? pretty sure it's not
 
TypeOU said:
is it nlf to assume someone with explicit resistance to space manip wouldn't resist a specific kind of space manip because he never did in lore? pretty sure it's not
Click to expand...
Yes it is.

For example, someone resists Soul destruction, It doesn't mean that just becouse he resist Soul destruction he would resist other types of Soul manip, such as Soul Absorption, Soul sealing, Soul control, etc.....

The same happens with Magic, if the opponent has a Reality warping Magical ability that the character with resistance to Magic hasn't shown, you can't claim that the second character can resist that specific Hax without evidence. Otherwise that character would have resistance to Reality warping.
 
God900 said:
Yes it is.

For example, someone resists Soul destruction, It doesn't mean that just becouse he resist Soul destruction he would resist other types of Soul manip, such as Soul Absorption, Soul sealing, Soul control, etc.....

The same happens with Magic, if the opponent has a Reality warping Magical ability that the character with resistance to Magic hasn't shown, you can't claim that the second character can resist that specific Hax without evidence. Otherwise that character would have resistance to Reality warping.
Click to expand...

it's totally different, someone who resisted soul destruction with no further indication only resist soul destruction. Someone who resisted soul destruction because he has a special ability giving him resistance to soul manip would resist soul haxx

edit: reality warping isn't automatically magic tho? so how would that mean that the one with magic resistance can resist reality warping?
 
TypeOU said:
it's totally different, someone who resisted soul destruction with no further indication only resist soul destruction. Someone who resisted soul destruction because he has a special ability giving him
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That's more or less the same example that you gave me with Spatial manipulation.
If a character resist his body getting warped o getting changed it's size with Spatial manipulation, It doesn't mean that character could resist getting CUT in half through space, like the ability from Regulus Corneas from Re:zero.
There are types of spatial manipulation.

That's why, resistance to Magic only applies to abilities you have resisted.
 
God900 said:
That's more or less the same example that you gave me with Spatial manipulation.
If a character resist his body getting warped o getting changed it's size with Spatial manipulation, It doesn't mean that character could resist getting CUT in half through space, like the ability from Regulus Corneas from Re:zero.
There are types of spatial manipulation.

That's why, resistance to Magic only applies to abilities you have resisted.
Click to expand...

did you even read? Gil has magic resistance, not "resistance to fire magic". If a character resist his body getting warped or getting changed its size with spatial manipulation because he resist spatial manipulation, he resist spatial manipulation

really, it's just 1+1=2. If a character has magic resistance, he has magic resistance, not "resistance to the magic he has been shown to fight". If a character resist specific magics with feats, he will resist these specific magics, that's it.
 
TypeOU said:
did you even read? Gil has magic resistance, not "resistance to fire magic". If a character resist his body getting warped or getting changed its size with spatial manipulation because he resist spatial manipulation, he resist spatial manipulation

really, it's just 1+1=2. If a character has magic resistance, he has magic resistance, not "resistance to the magic he has been shown to fight". If a character resist specific magics with feats, he will resist these specific magics, that's it.
Click to expand...
You are just covering all Magic based abilities that exist on Gil's Magic resistance which is a huge NLF.

We can't say that X character has resistance to such a potent Hax like Magic based CM or Fate manipulation simply becouse of "Magic resistance"

A NLF is a NLF
 
I see there's no use arguing with you, you really want rimuru to win don't you? magic resistance is magic resistance, it's in the name ffs
btw potent haxx isn't necessarily stronger per se
 
just a note fate magic resistance is against supernatural so its pretty broad, idk about fate manipobut something like cm especially cm1 would require a feat.
 
magic in tensei shitara works on the same basis as it does in fate, so kinda irrelevant here. well CM based magic is still magic anyway, so magic resistance would work, you don't need every resistance to something to resist it
 
TypeOU said:
magic in tensei shitara works on the same basis as it does in fate, so kinda irrelevant here. well CM based magic is still magic anyway, so magic resistance would work, you don't need every resistance to something to resist it
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Concept manipulation based magic is waaay higher then what most magic resistance can take.
 
I believe that even if it's magic based, none of servants in fate resisted conceptual attacks with their MR so yeah, that sound like a headcanon, not an NLF tho
 
TypeOU said:
... why? the source isn't gonna make something automatically superior, that's just silly
Click to expand...
Because a concept is always going to be stronger then what anything normal can take, it's why finding matches for Warhammer Fantasy mages is so damn hard.
 
Veloxt1r0kore said:
I believe that even if it's magic based, none of servants in fate resisted conceptual attacks with their MR so yeah, that sound like a headcanon, not an NLF tho
Click to expand...
again, it's not a conceptual attack, it's conceptual manip based magic, which is not only still magic, not only something servants with MR B+ absolutely resist, but ALSO exactly how magecraft works in fate

fire resistance isn't gonna stop working just because the fire was willed into existence with reality warping
 
DaReaperMan said:
Because a concept is always going to be stronger then what anything normal can take, it's why finding matches for Warhammer Fantasy mages is so damn hard.
Click to expand...
so servants stomp? I mean they're basically a bunch of concept pulled together

More seriously tho, again, magecraft works on the same basis.
 
Veloxt1r0kore said:
Guys
Click to expand...
not necessary, servants already resist conceptual affecting magecraft with MRB+ and magecraft itself work under the same basis as it does in tensei shitara,

"Magic (魔法 mahō) is the technique of projecting an idea into reality via a medium, usually Magicules. Fundamentally, it is the power to interfere with the laws of nature"

"That “program” is a set of universal rules that interfere with nature once they are enforced. The power that enforces those rules is the magical energy of the magus and the command to do it is made through his Circuits. The greater the interference, the greater will be the amount of magical energy consumed" (about casting a spell in fate)
 
I mean why you guy talk when MR allow to resist in cm type 1 in first place? (+ Not like their resistance come from authority too who is like 1-C thing)....
 
Regidian said:
I mean why you guy talk when MR allow to resist in cm type 1 in first place? (+ Not like their resistance come from authority too who is like 1-C thing)....
Click to expand...
inb4 someone must give gilgamesh his tablet that gives him an high tier authority to give him the authorities resistances
 
TypeOU said:
inb4 someone must give gilgamesh his tablet that gives him an high tier authority to give him the authorities resistances
Click to expand...




With the skill Magic Resistance:
Conceptual Manipulation and Law Manipulation: Conceptual magecraft is ineffective against Servants with Rank B Magic Resistance and they are capable of completely canceling it. Authorities are considered to act akin to a type of conceptual magecraft.
 
Anyways Crimson is preparing a CRT for the MR of servant.

Since people seem to like merging the skill magic resistance of fate and the tag magic resistance of vsb....
 
Regidian said:
Guy you are telling me you try to defend gil but you don't even read profil correctly??



With the skill Magic Resistance:
Conceptual Manipulation and Law Manipulation: Conceptual magecraft is ineffective against Servants with Rank B Magic Resistance and they are capable of completely canceling it. Authorities are considered to act akin to a type of conceptual magecraft.
Click to expand...
pretty sure the authority part is still a "maybe" tho, or rather very unlikely
This is okay to me, but Authority resistances are a no-no. While they can act as conceptual magecraft, they are explicitly stated to not be magecraft.
Click to expand...

the issue with giving them resistance to authority is that some servants with MR B or + WERE affected by authorities, like how ishtar was affected by ereshkigal authority, or the CCC servants were affected by BB authorities despite some of them having high rank magic resistance
 
TypeOU said:
pretty sure the authority part is still a "maybe" tho, or rather very unlikely


the issue with giving them resistance to authority is that some servants with MR B or + WERE affected by authorities, like how ishtar was affected by ereshkigal authority, or the CCC servants were affected by BB authorities despite some of them having high rank magic resistance
Click to expand...
Ishtar was not a servant at this time and it's because eresh authority>her.


The resistance of MR B allow just the premary of authority not the layered one. (Like why we have many case of servant being able to battle and defend against low level god).


And BB ten crown (which it's what was the most problem) bypass resistance
 
Then Yeah, those servants have statements/feats backing Up their resistance against CM (in this case Low 1-C conceptual manipulation), but....., saying that Magic resistance>>any type of Magecraft, even Haxxes that ignore durability is Headcanon entering the NLF terriroty.
 
God900 said:
Then Yeah, those servants have statements/feats backing Up their resistance against CM (in this case Low 1-C conceptual manipulation), but....., saying that Magic resistance>>any type of Magecraft, even Haxxes that ignora durability is Headcanon entering the NLF terriroty.
Click to expand...
It's litteraly the description of magic resistance. You talk like in fate, hax don't ignore durability...

Rank EX: Completely nullifies effects of almost every harmful Magecraft.

Rank A: Cancel spells of A-Rank or below, no matter what High-Thaumaturgy it is. In practice, the Servant is untouchable to modern magi, so it would not be an exaggeration to title the Servant a "Magus Killer".
 
Regidian said:
It's litteraly the description of magic resistance. You talk like in fate, hax don't ignore durability...

Rank EX: Completely nullifies effects of almost every harmful Magecraft.

Rank A: Cancel spells of A-Rank or below, no matter what High-Thaumaturgy it is. In practice, the Servant is untouchable to modern magi, so it would not be an exaggeration to title the Servant a "Magus Killer".
Click to expand...
But, that's the Magic resistance in general??, or only Servant's resistance??
 
Zencha9 said:
lmao
Click to expand...
It depends on the Magic resistance that the user has.
Becouse seems like Servant's Magic resistance work on a different manner.

For example, X character has resistance to Magic, but the opponent has sleep inducement Magic that the other character hasn't shown to resist. Then the character should get affected by the Sleep manip Magic.
 
But what magic resistance as a whole you mean?

They resist supernatural, if your perso have higher potency that what they show to resist then they don't resist, but if you don't then no reason that they will suddenly stop to resist it just because not from fate verse.


And if you ask fate have a cover of praticaly everything that exist in term of big hax here
 
Regidian said:
But what magic resistance as a whole you mean?

They resist supernatural, if your perso have higher potency that what they show to resist then they don't resist, but if you don't then no reason that they will suddenly stop to resist it just because not from fate verse
Click to expand...
But, if they haven't shown resisting something like Fate manipulation Magic , then they won't resist It.

You can't resist a specific Hax without any feat or statement that backs it up.
 
Fates one of those exceptions where they resist supernatural as a whole, so if your sleep inducement magic is through magical/paranormal/mystical means theyll shrug it off with thr layers like onion yawn
 
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