Rimuru and Hinata's scaling reasoning revisions

[FallenMaou2234]

So ladies and gents Maou here and I just wanted to make this thread cause I feel like ma boy Rimuru needs a little upgrade

Now to start off the reasoning for Rimuru's scaling when it comes to his Rel+ Speed go as follows:

"Comparable to Saint Hinata Sakaguchi who displayed incredible speed despite Rimuru's Mind Accelerate boosting his perception speed a million times, describing her to be comparable to Milim Nava. Managed to fight a semi-serious Milim Nava and dodge her
attacks"

And the Reasoning for Hinata's 6-A ap goes as follows:

"Comparable to Demon Lord Rimuru"

Now that we've looked at these I think it's safe to say that based on the events of Vol.7 it isn't wrong to say this, however this reasoning is selling Rimuru a bit short in my opinion. Because all of these are based on a Rimuru who wasn't going all out after all she even admits herself in Vol.10 that if Rimuru ever got angry it would take a real Demon Lord like Luminus to stop him.



And this is also without taking into account his "Full Power Battle Mode" from his encounter with Maribel later in Vol.10, where Shion states that it was the "True form" of Demon Lord Rimuru and Gobuta said he was "Looking kinda scary" lending credence to the idea that this "Full Power Battle Mode" puts his stats far above the "Base Form" he fought Hinata in during Vol.7



And this is further compounded by the fact that he casually one shot Gaiye who had been powerd up to a level in the league of Frey and Carrion:



Now granted she may not have known about Carrions Royal Beast form at the time. But that's not what important here what is important is that he was powered up to the level of Frey. Frey who herself stated that she would likley have been equal to Awakened Clayman and now guess who actually fought and beat awakened Clayman hehehe......Rimuru that's who. Now that fight was a stomp without a doubt but Rimuru didn't casually one shot him with a single "passing blow" which again adds to the fact that his "Full Power Battle mode" is far above his base

Now whether this warrants the making of a new key for Rimuru or an "At Least" on his speed rating or a "Higher" for his 6-A rating is a topic for another thread however I think at the very least the reasoning cited above should be changed from

"Comparable to Saint Hinata Sakaguchi who displayed incredible speed despite Rimuru's Mind Accelerate boosting his perception speed a million times, describing her to be comparable to Milim Nava. Managed to fight a semi-serious Milim Nava and dodge her
attacks"

AND

"Comparable to Demon Lord Rimuru"

TO

"Whilst in a restricted state, is comparable to Saint Hinata Sakaguchi, who displayed incredible speed despite Rimuru's Mind Accelerate boosting his perception speed a million times, describing her to be comparable to Milim Nava Managed to fight a semi-serious Milim Nava and dodge her attacks"


AND

"Comparable to Demon Lord Rimuru's resticted state"

So yeah that's about it whadya all think about dis revision yeah and sorry if this has been discussed already

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Bump

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Bump

 

[Metalballrun]

Now that we've looked at these I think it's safe to say that based on the events of Vol.7 it isn't wrong to say this, however this reasoning is selling Rimuru a bit short in my opinion. Because all of these are based on a Rimuru who wasn't going all out after all she even admits herself in Vol.10 that if Rimuru ever got angry it would take a real Demon Lord like Luminus to stop him.

See, I've seen this "not going all out" and "restricting himself" "argument" regurgitated so many times without any further elaboration.
Like, do you guys realize how vague and generalized that statement is?

You have to provide context on which aspects the character is nerfing themselves. Are they pulling their punches? Are they slowing down? Are they not taking the fight seriously? There are so many ways to to through this line of thought, and we can't just arbitrarily decide things without evidence.

And this is also without taking into account his "Full Power Battle Mode" from his encounter with Maribel later in Vol.10, where Shion states that it was the "True form" of Demon Lord Rimuru and Gobuta said he was "Looking kinda scary" lending credence to the idea that this "Full Power Battle Mode" puts his stats far above the "Base Form" he fought Hinata in during Vol.7

The context of this scene is Rimuru not holding back his youki, which scared Gobta.
This isn't a new mode or whatever, Rimuru just became serious and set on killing his opponent. Shion is just being hyperbolic and aggrandizing the situation.

Arbitrarily saying it's "far above" his "base form" is nothing more than an unsubstantiated claim.

I mean seriously, what even is this.

Now granted she may not have known about Carrions Royal Beast form at the time. But that's not what important here what is important is that he was powered up to the level of Frey. Frey who herself stated that she would likley have been equal to Awakened Clayman and now guess who actually fought and beat awakened Clayman hehehe......Rimuru that's who. Now that fight was a stomp without a doubt but Rimuru didn't casually one shot him with a single "passing blow" which again adds to the fact that his "Full Power Battle mode" is far above his base

...No. Just no.
V10 Rimuru could be and probably is stronger than V6 Rimuru, but not because of this Full Power Battle Mode nonsense.

Also, Rimuru didn't one-shot Clayman not because he couldn't, but because he didn't want to. He specifically was putting on a show for the other Demon Lords, getting revenge at Clayman, and is attempting to acquire information about Clayman's benefactor.

Frey also isn't equal to Awakened Clayman, I have no idea where this came from.

Additionally, Saint Hinata wouldn't have a problem destroying Awakened Clayman either, or any of the Demon Lord Seeds for that matter. Hell, she mortally wounded two Seed level, possibly Awakened level demon lords as an Enlightened.

---

Rimuru's and Hinata's current justifications are fine as it is, as it's only comparing basic stats such as AP and Speed, of which Rimuru was very obviously not holding back on.
Rimuru was holding back on using his skills like Beelzebuth and his multitudes of other magic, but the same could be said about Hinata. And even presuming that Rimuru could've and would've ended the fight easier and quicker had he been using all of his Skills, it wouldn't affect any of the ratings in question either.

Simply put, it was holding back in the matter of hax.

Unless of course, you can provide definitive proof that Rimuru was holding back his physicals.

There will be changes about Hinata's justifications in future CRTs, and it may be upgrades and/or downgrades.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

The context of this scene is Rimuru not holding back his youki, which scared Gobta.
This isn't a new mode or whatever, Rimuru just became serious and set on killing his opponent. Shion is just being hyperbolic and aggrandizing the situation.

Arbitrarily saying it's "far above" his "base

And theres the sauce "he became serious and set on killing his opponent" that's exactly it each and every time he's fought he always had a reason not to show his entire hand

In Vol.7 it was because he didn't want to kill Hinata wanting to overwhelm her so negotiations could be held instead, rather than killing her and starting a war with the holy church. in Vol.6 it was because he was trying to get Clayman to talk about Kazalim. Hed always had a reason not to try and stomp his opponent with maximum force

This Is where those statments come in these shouldn't be looked at as "Gobuta said Rimuru looks scary therefore Rimuru is far above base" or "Shion said this is his true form so that means he's far above base" it more like they're just supporting evidence because given the context of him switching into "Full Power Battle Mode" and not holding in his Youki like he usually does the author inserted those statments specifically to indicate that we were seeing a different Rimuru than normal and that's what should be taken into account.

Because in the case of examples like when Luminas let her Youki run loose in Vol.11 when she fought Granbell, even though she usually doesn't I don't think it's a stretch to say we can associate releasing their Youki with "going all out" or something similar.

Frey also isn't equal to Awakened Clayman, I have no idea where this came from.

Well the Translations do vary but the main thing we tend to see is that Frey wouldn't have been able to beat Awakened Clayman and in the anime Is where it was stated she would've been equal to him at best meaning that while he probably does edge out they are comparable

Additionally, Saint Hinata wouldn't have a problem destroying Awakened Clayman either, or any of the Demon Lord Seeds for that matter. Hell, she mortally wounded two Seed level, possibly Awakened level demon lords as an Enlightened

Well if by two Seed Level one of those is Pre-Demon Lord Ascension Rimuru then I think that may be a little....what with him being weakened by the holy field and all to the point that Hinata was actually suprised he could move as well as he was.....so I mean

Rimuru's and Hinata's current justifications are fine as it is, as it's only comparing basic stats such as AP and Speed, of which Rimuru was very obviously not holding back on.
Rimuru was holding back on using his skills like Beelzebuth and his multitudes of other magic, but the same could be said about Hinata. And even presuming that Rimuru could've and would've ended the fight easier and quicker had he been using all of his Skills, it wouldn't affect any of the ratings in question either.

I mean this a bit disingenuous given that among these skills there are intrinsic skills like "Steel Body" and "Strengthen Body" which specifically amp his AP along with other seemingly OP stuff like Veldoras very own Storm magic......so saying it wouldn't have an effect on the ratings in question is a bit....and as for Hinata I don't know about that Melt Slash is her most powerful technique and Raphael kinda let Rimuru tank it because it wanted to analyse the technique......so you know

...No. Just no.
V10 Rimuru could be and probably is stronger than V6 Rimuru, but not because of this Full Power Battle Mode nonsense.

Again i think this is rather disingenuous I mean I don't think something thats very conspicuously called "Full Power Battle Mode" wouldn't have any bearing whatsoever on Rimuru's overall stats I mean it's literally called FULL POWER BATTLE MODE I don't see how we can just gloss over that fact and say it's "Not because of this full power Battle mode nonsense" because even at that point you've already acknowledged that Vol.10 Rimuru is Likley stronger than Vol.6 Rimuru without Full power Battle mode so......

See, I've seen this "not going all out" and "restricting himself" "argument" regurgitated so many times without any further elaboration.

Well I can understand the frustration if you've had to deal with this on the wiki before, but I did put disclaimers apologising if this had been discussed before so I'd appreciate it if we could have a less heated discussion going forward

 

[Metalballrun]

This Is where those statments come in these shouldn't be looked at as "Gobuta said Rimuru looks scary therefore Rimuru is far above base" or "Shion said this is his true form so that means he's far above base"

So you're... disagreeing with yourself?

None of what you said supports your argument nor hold up against mine.

Well the Translations do vary but the main thing we tend to see is that Frey wouldn't have been able to beat Awakened Clayman and in the anime Is where it was stated she would've been equal to him at best meaning that while he probably does edge out they are comparable

No, I'm telling you that they're not equal nor are they close.

Well if by two Seed Level one of those is Pre-Demon Lord Ascension Rimuru then I think that may be a little....what with him being weakened by the holy field and all to the point that Hinata was actually suprised he could move as well as he was.....so I mean

No, I'm talking about Roy Valentin and Louis Valentin, both of which are likely Awakened level. And even if they aren't the point still stands, but chances are they are awakened level individually.

I mean this a bit disingenuous

So you're accusing me of lying?
Prove it.

so saying it wouldn't have an effect on the ratings in question is a bit

I never said that.
This is an example of being disingenuous.

nd as for Hinata I don't know about that Melt Slash is her most powerful technique and Raphael kinda let Rimuru tank it because it wanted to analyse the technique......so you know

What are you even talking about
What does Melt Slash have to do with either of our arguments?

"Full Power Battle Mode"

It's only called "Full Power Battle Mode" in the fan translations. It's "true form" in the official. And there's a reason why both instances are in quotations. Because it's not a literal different form.
People unleashing their Youki doesn't make them super strong all of a sudden. This isn't Dragon Ball.

Again i think this is rather disingenuous I mean I don't think something thats very conspicuously called "Full Power Battle Mode" wouldn't have any bearing whatsoever on Rimuru's overall stats I mean it's literally called FULL POWER BATTLE MODE I don't see how we can just gloss over that fact and say it's "Not because of this full power Battle mode nonsense" because even at that point you've already acknowledged that Vol.10 Rimuru is Likley stronger than Vol.6 Rimuru without Full power Battle mode so......

That's not what I said.

Read it carefully. Again.

I already explained what Full Power Battle Mode means. I don't have to repeat it again. I know everyone in this thread is literate.

I'd appreciate it if we could have a less heated discussion going forward

Don't tell people they're lying for starters.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

So you're... disagreeing with yourself?

The passage I wrote says those statments should be used as supporting evidence to indicate were seeing a different Rimuru than normal given the context of the scene..........

No, I'm talking about Roy Valentin and Louis Valentin, both of which are likely Awakened level. And even if they aren't the point still stands, but chances are they are awakened level individually.

Ah I see makes sense I see and Awakened as in Awakened Demon Lord???...because I mean they're two halves of the same whole so assuming the each got an equal amount of power you're saying that at 50% they're on the level of an Awakened Demon Lord?? plus that means both of them would've been on the same level as Kazalim who didn't seem to be on the level of an Awakened level Demon lord but rather on the level of Carrion or above him given Kazalim and Milim recommend him...

It's only called "Full Power Battle Mode" in the fan translations. It's "true form" in the official. And there's a reason why both instances are in quotations. Because it's not a literal different form.
People unleashing their Youki doesn't make them super strong all of a sudden. This isn't Dragon Ball.

Doesn't necessarily mean they get a power up like a super Saiyan form. It usually just means they aren't holding back like i said "All out". Which Rimuru obviously was against Maribel because as you said he'd "resolved himself to killing" her, and not holding back for the sake of prying information or not wanting to start a larger conflict. It seems that's where a little misunderstanding has occured

What are you even talking about
What does Melt Slash have to do with either of our arguments?.

Rimuru was holding back on using his skills like Beelzebuth and his multitudes of other magic, but the same could be said about Hinata.

"The same could be said about Hinata" but Melt slash is her strongest technique......

So you're accusing me of lying?
Prove it.

Well i wouldn't call you a liar, but you seem Knowledgeable on the Verse so if you made the statment knowing about skills like "Steel Body" and "Strengthen Body" which directly amp Physicals then you probably didn't mention them for the sake of your argument. That said if you took offense i apologise.

Don't tell people they're lying for starters.

Well I meant you were more ignoring certain things for the sake of your argument but if that's how you interpreted that's fine too, plus you're the one who came out guns blazing saying you've seen this "regurgitated" so many times or calling it "nonsense". Well maybe that's how you roll but you definitely came on strong I'll just say that.

I already explained what Full Power Battle Mode means. I don't have to repeat it again. I know everyone in this thread is literate.

Sneak dissing huh?? I see hahaha

 

[Nxdia00]

I don't see any reason what this change, nor see any point in this. Bcs it's already a known facts that Rimuru holding back most of his card but also Hinata but generally Rimuru still superior.

Doesn't necessarily mean they get a power up like a super Saiyan form. It usually just means they aren't holding back like i said "All out". Which Rimuru obviously was against Maribel because as you said he'd "resolved himself to killing" her, and not holding back for the sake of prying information or not wanting to start a larger conflict. It seems that's where a little misunderstanding has occured

This is already proof why there is no reason for the change. They both at the same tier and actually harming each other. The "True Form" or "Full Power Battle Mode" also not a literal form change that make him X stronger than before, but just Rimuru decided to go for the kill from the beginning. Literally just like SBA/In Character and Bloodlust thingy like every characters in this site. Smh like Aura wheter it's Youki, Touki, Haki, or just Qi is a given when someone fighting in this verse bcs that's how they fight and what they use.

"Confronting Hinata’s weapon with this substitute weapon makes me feel uneasy. I should protect my uchigatana with my Youki (Demonic Aura) and try to avoid direct clashes of swords with her. That’s why I activated the「Magic Fighting Spirit」from my「Covenant King Uriel」 and covered the blade with「Black Thunder Flame」." – V7

"The same could be said about Hinata" but Melt slash is her strongest technique......

And also Beelzebuth was Rimuru's "strongest" skill at the time but still got destroyed by Melt Slash along with 70% or so of his energy and both of them only using it at the end. Uriel can't even block Spiritons at the time, even after V7 it stil can be breached by Spiritons.

Well i wouldn't call you a liar, but you seem Knowledgeable on the Verse so if you made the statment knowing about skills like "Steel Body" and "Strengthen Body" which directly amp Physicals then you probably didn't mention them for the sake of your argument. That said if you took offense i apologise.

Why it even matters? Did Rimuru need to mention it so he actually used it in verse? It's not even mentioned anymore in his future fights bcs how trivial it is. It's just a standard skill or means in battle, same with Aura like Qi(Non-Monster Aura), Youki(Demonic Aura), Touki(Fighting Aura), Haki, etc in this verse. Even standard Arts like Battlewill not mentioned in battle anymore most of the time bcs how standard it is.

 

[Nxdia00]

Btw @Metalballrun how the massive CRT going? The 6B one. Or you still got test?

 

[FallenMaou2234]

I don't see any reason what this change, nor see any point in this. Bcs it's already a known facts that Rimuru holding back most of his card but also Hinata but generally Rimuru still superior.

Hmmmm I see so the reasoning on their pages was given despite this information???

And also Beelzebuth is Rimuru's "strongest" skill at the time but still got destroyed by Melt Slash along with 70% or so of his energy and both of them only using it at the end. Uriel can't even block Spiritons at the time even after V7, it stil can be breached by Spiritons.

Veldora Lord of Storms disliked this post heheheh

And yeah but difference is, is that post Vol.7 is that there's only a slight chance that it may breached

This is already proof why there is no reason for the change. They both at the same tier and actually harming each other. The "True Form" or "Full Power Battle Mode" also not a literal form change that make him X stronger than before, but just Rimuru decided to go for the kill from the beginning.

And that's exactly what I've been saying that it's not a literal transformation like super Saiyan but rather him not holding back like usual and because we know he's usually holding back and has skills and strength in reserve I feel like we should change the reasoning from comparable to "comparable in a Restricted state" or something along those lines since he Is holding back

 

[Nxdia00]

Hmmmm I see so the reasoning on their pages was given despite this information???

Yes. Bcs the "comparable" testament just for the tiering scale of power like harming each other, not how well they do and skilled in combat or anything one another.

Veldora Lord of Storms disliked this post heheheh

And yeah but difference is, is that post Vol.7 is that there's only a slight chance that it may breached

Nah, other than calling Veldora, Immortality, and using his Storm Magic like before, Beelzebuth still the "strongest" as means of "attacking". Veldora never actually summoned by Rimuru himself even once not to mention lol.

Nah, as long as he can't calculate the movement, it will breach but there is Raphael so yea, it's not a big chance but still likely to breach.

And that's exactly what I've been saying that it's not a literal transformation like super Saiyan but rather him not holding back like usual and because we know he's usually holding back and has skills and strength in reserve I feel like we should change the reasoning from comparable to "comparable in a Restricted state" or something along those lines since he Is holding back

Just to clarify things. Bcs it will not change anything. Not to mention that @Metalballrun will do a massive CRT for tier 6-C to 6-B - H6-B.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Yes. Bcs the "comparable" testament just for the tiering scale of power like harming each other, not how well they do and skilled in combat or anything one another.

I see so it's based on the ability to harm and not a head to head comparison?? Well then that makes sense I suppose

Nah, other than calling Veldora, Immortality, and using his Storm Magic like before, Beelzebuth still the "strongest" as means of "attacking". Veldora never actually summoned by Rimuru himself even once not to mention lol.

Well it's probably because he can't be letting Veldora run loose everywhere because it would damage his rep heheheh but again summoning Veldora in and of itself makes the skill incredibly powerful I mean it's Veldora after all

Just to clarify things. Bcs it will not change anything. Not to mention that @Metalballrun will do a massive CRT for tier 6C to 6B.

Ah i see and when exactly will the revision be dropped??

 

[Nxdia00]

That's why i also asking him. But he seems busy with test recently so dunno.

 

[rainheart]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/rimuru-tempest-imeasurable.132651/

go cheked my speed rimuru scale