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Richter Belmont vs Ren Amamiya

Things rarely seem to miss in game anyway. In particular things that they do to themselves. I've never seen a self-buff, heal spell, or reflection spell miss.

That said, I'm going to go with Joker here. If Richter has type 4 immortality, that should be allowed, as it's technically not outside help and should be considered as one of Richter's abilities. It's like removing the immortality of a character whom is constantly healed by their goddess because outside help isn't allowed. It's integral to the character and a property of how they fight, so, iirc, it should be fine.

That being said, Ren has other methods of incaping. Physically putting Richter to sleep, knocking him unconscious, possibly amnesia or mind control, immobilizing him, debuffing him to where he can't really hurt Joker, etc. Omnipotent Orb basically nullifies Richter's arsenal here, so Joker should take this with moderate difficulty, as he'll have to choose a correct method around Richter's type 4.
 
Litentric Teon said:
Things rarely seem to miss in game anyway. In particular things that they do to themselves. I've never seen a self-buff, heal spell, or reflection spell miss.
That said, I'm going to go with Joker here. If Richter has type 4 immortality, that should be allowed, as it's technically not outside help and should be considered as one of Richter's abilities. It's like removing the immortality of a character whom is constantly healed by their goddess because outside help isn't allowed. It's integral to the character and a property of how they fight, so, iirc, it should be fine.

That being said, Ren has other methods of incaping. Physically putting Richter to sleep, knocking him unconscious, possibly amnesia or mind control, immobilizing him, debuffing him to where he can't really hurt Joker, etc. Omnipotent Orb basically nullifies Richter's arsenal here, so Joker should take this with moderate difficulty, as he'll have to choose a correct method around Richter's type 4.
Click to expand...
Richter's supposed Type 4 isn't on his profile. Also, if Richter can be resurrected by Maria, Morgana can be resurrected by Joker via Samarecarm. Unless it's a passive, automatic resurrection, it counts as outside help. Characters that get resurrected by their gods/goddesses as a part of their characters have been bestowed that ability by said gods or goddesses.

The definition of Type 4 goes:

4: Immortality via reincarnation or Resurrection: Characters that are immortal because, whenever they die, they will simply reincarnate within another body or resurrect themselves at a later point in time.

It explicitly defines Type 4 as the ability to resurrect one's own self, not the ability to receive resurrection from outside forces. There's a reason we don't give Satou Kazuma type 4.
 
@Solacis

I was under the impression that type 4 was referring to immortality due to some god's influence on said character. That was simply my mistake as the conversation above seems to imply that. Characters that are resurrected by their gods each time they die don't necessarily have the ability of resurrection. The gods/goddesses could simply do it each time they die. As it's part of their character, it would presumably be allowed. But if this is not the case, then I'd assume there's a thread discussing such, as I do recall a type of immortality from godhood.

The example with Morgana is false equivalence here as neither Joker nor Morgana are reliant on the other. And neither is a characteristic of the way the other battles. Unlike in the example of some higher god reviving a specific character every time they die.

Regardless, since Richter's immortality isn't what I believed it to be, and the example with Morgana is irrelevant here, none of that really matters, nor does it influence my vote since I was voting for Joker in the first place. This feels like semantics since we already agree on the outcome of the match.
 
That's why I said to disable optional equipment. That way Joker has to worry about choosing the right Persona to defend against specific attacks, instead of just having a blanket null on everything coming his way.
 
Now the question is, can Richter take out Ren before he gets taken down himself?

Ren has full liberties to attack whenever since he has Almighty attacks and his bullets passively ignore resistances. Meanwhile, Richter has to mix up his attacks frequently enough that Ren doesn't just put up Tetra- or Makarakarn, or switch to a Persona that resists/nulls/absorbs/reflects the incoming attack type.

Richter still has a chance to win, but it'll be tough. Once again, Hydro Storm is Richter's best shot at damaging Ren, since it's outside of Ren's affinities, and if he catches Ren off-guard he can let it loose before he can put up Makarakarn.

That said, I'm still voting for Ren, since his win condition is much more reliable, plus he has the Third Eye which amps his reaction time.
 
Ren: 6 (Tonipelimies, ABoogieYesSir, Jimboydejuan12, Hizack123, Litentric Teon, Solacis)

Richter: 1 (Crocodile The SeaWing)

1 more vote until grace.
 
I would like to mention that Richter would resist power null and attack reflection through my CRT and that he can in fact power null himself

Also the Vampire killer is able to weaken ones powers and soul through its sheer presence alone
 
LightinAnt said:
I would like to mention that Richter would resist power null and attack reflection through my CRT and that he can in fact power null himself
Also the Vampire killer is able to weaken ones powers and soul through its sheer presence alone
Click to expand...
Powernull himself.....that sound kind of useless
 
I think I'm going for Joker FRA.
 
Alright, what has been changed that would directly affect the result of this match?
 
So Hydro Vortex may have become a legitimate threat now, since Makarakarn can't reflect anymore. Although, Persona attack reflection has shown that if it's not reflected, it still gets nulled. Power null also doesn't stop Joker from switching his Personas, so his passive skills and elemental resistances are still in effect. He just has to use melee and gun attacks instead, the latter of which function like Almighty attacks.

Vote is still on Joker, for me.
 
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