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Ribrianne scaling

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To be blunt. I personally heavily disagree with much of the 3-A scaling in Super and I curse the damnable writing for having Goku absorb His SSG power into his base form. Ribiranne is easily one of the worst offenders of this ridiculous scaling with her being defeated by Android 18 despite her also going against Super Vegeta and her teammates going against 17 and Base Goku. Not to mention how three of her (implied) lesser teammates being capable of pushing Goku into freaking Blue.

Then you also have garbage like base Gohan jobbing to Jimeze...despite Gohan scaling to somewhere around SSG to SSB levels due to his one ridiculous scaling episode.

Overall, Super scaling is just REALLY bad with its constant 3-As due to that ONE statement of Goku absorbing God into his base power.
 
Thing is though, at complete beserker mode, full power seemingly a bloodlust, she was keeping up with 17, who stated himself he wasn't suppressing himsefl because there was no consequence due to infinite stamina, plus was taking it all way more seriously than goku and vegeta, who still remarked Ribrianne's power. Base Goku was also not phasing her like it was shown

I think her 3-A feats overtake the antifeats tbh, but what if it was simply 'At least High 4-C, possibly 3-A.'

She was still shown by Goku that she was one of the stronger opponents he had fought and remembered from the flashback, plus Liquirr thought she had a fair chance at winning.

Heck im fine with possibly 3-A 18 too, seeing as she did imply a pretty drastic power boost after her Ribrianne fight
 
TheMasculineMineta said:
mmm...Still got defeated by 18. I don't think it's very likely she's 3-A at all.
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Yeah, after 18 implied a large power boost with 'love'. Its vague but they clearly show she had to power up to some crazy extent to compete. And heck, there are still people who agree with 3-A 18 so its perfectly understandable.

She Was one of the more advertised and 'made memorable' if you will, characters in the ToP
 
18 definitely got a huge boost in strength while fighting Ribrianne. She seemed weaker than Giant Ribrianne at first but then got some love boost or something and overpowered her. Honestly, I would be fine with High 4-C Base Ribrianne, 3-A Super/Giant Ribrianne (Since Super Ribrianne was strong enough that Base Goku was impressed and bothered to go SSB, and Giant Ribrianne should be as strong or stronger than that). As well as High 4-C 18, 3-A with love boost.
 
Yeah, after 18 implied a large power boost with 'love'. Its vague but they clearly show she had to power up to some crazy extent to compete. And heck, there are still people who agree with 3-A 18 so its perfectly understandable.

She Was one of the more advertised and 'made memorable' if you will, characters in the ToP

Alrighty then. Honestly, in fiction and life, everyone will fight harder to protect the ones they love. Powers of friendship, love, and plot are pretty evident in most cartoons, manga, or anime. However, when shown, they are usually outliers. As of those who say 3-A 18, yes. They do exist. However, in this thread and 18's page you can see that the number of people that say High 4-C 18 definitely outweigh the 3-As. Yamcha is also memorable, but overall does that make him a 3-A? Of course not.
 
What I am presenting is not fact, and neither is yours. You are using an opinion backed up by facts and I am denying those claims with more facts. You do however, bring up good points. I personally say that 18 is High 4-C, however this is definitely up for debate. It could easily become a controversial topic. But not yet. Until there is harder evidence for 3-A 18 or Ribrianne, this remains the same.
 
Right yeah thing is buddy, the Power of friendship boosts usually aren't labelled outliers when they appear on this wiki. Mainly because it is a main shonen anime element, and while its dumb, it still is just the reason for that boost. Nothing after it disproves 18 being just as strong

I dont really think they do tbh. 18 was one of the longer survivors of the tournament, and at this point 3-A in Dragon Ball is just...casual. After she beat Ribrianne, nothing else really completely debunked that power she had, sure she got caught by Anilaza, but anilaza was easily stronger than Ribrianne. She's never shown training intensely but the fact Goku would still ask her to join, knowing her strength at least, alreayd blows out the fact shes became irrelevant enough to even be a part of the tournament. And her 3-A was mainly FOR defeating Ribrianne, so its backwards thinking in saying Ribrianne shouldnt be 3-A because 18 isnt, and unlike 18, ribrianne has shown multiple 3-A feats, more so than her High 4-C.

And thats not my point, memorable to Goku, in the sense she appeared in the flashback among the likes of Kefla, the GoDs and the Universe 9 trio, just shows she wasn't irrelevant, Goku still enjoyed fighting her, and to fight her he essentially did have to value her ability. Yamcha wasn't even in the tournament of power, you missed my point completely.

What evidence is there exactly, other than the backwards logic with 18 beating her, that fully disproves 3-A Ribrianne? Cause even base goku and vegeta can be 3-A casually now, and its a wide tier, so being tossed around a little by them despite remarking they had to try a little doesn't say Ribrianne isnt 3-A. I mean, we legitimately see her fighting on par with 17 who wasn't holding back like he stated, and one shot his barrier with one bloodlusted punch. Sure GoD Toppo didnt break it immediately, but his Justice Flash is a volley, so their strength value is in their stack damage and speed, and 17 had to reinforce his forcefields multiple times to survive Jiren's attacks, cause otherwise he broke through it ez. This was Ribrianne at what seemed to be her strongest, and 17 may have won in the end but only due to the infinite stamina advantage, as Ribrianne likely couldn't hold that same power and would start to decline. Not to mention Ribrianne was starting to lose her hope, and that can put a damper on her fighting ability

Again, since its 'controversial', and there are points for both (even though nothing honestly disproves 3-A Ribrianne from what ive seen other than 18 who got a noticeable power boost), then why not just make it 'At least High 4-C, possibly 3-A' and please everybody? I'd push for that with 18 too but i dont think that topic will do any good (Even though 18 then went on to fight those transvestites on fairly equal footing until the black hole who used the kamikaze fireballs powers and stated to have 'surpassed' them
 
SuperDragoon978 said:
18 definitely got a huge boost in strength while fighting Ribrianne. She seemed weaker than Giant Ribrianne at first but then got some love boost or something and overpowered her. Honestly, I would be fine with High 4-C Base Ribrianne, 3-A Super/Giant Ribrianne (Since Super Ribrianne was strong enough that Base Goku was impressed and bothered to go SSB, and Giant Ribrianne should be as strong or stronger than that). As well as High 4-C 18, 3-A with love boost.
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She did indeed get a boost, and she was originally weaker than Giant Ribrianne. High 4-C base Ribrianne, that sounds accurate. 3-A Super/Giant Ribrianne? no. Super Ribrianne was stronger than SUPRESSED base Goku. Goku suppressed himself for pretty much everyone but Universe 6 and 11. Sure he bothered to go SSB, but that wasn't comparable to Ribrianne. It one shot and knocked her out of that state. Also, Giant Ribrianne still got defeated by High 4-C 18. Not to mention, Android 18's reasoning for being High 4-C makes her High 4-C. That's not deniable.
 
TheMasculineMineta said:
SuperDragoon978 said:
18 definitely got a huge boost in strength while fighting Ribrianne. She seemed weaker than Giant Ribrianne at first but then got some love boost or something and overpowered her. Honestly, I would be fine with High 4-C Base Ribrianne, 3-A Super/Giant Ribrianne (Since Super Ribrianne was strong enough that Base Goku was impressed and bothered to go SSB, and Giant Ribrianne should be as strong or stronger than that). As well as High 4-C 18, 3-A with love boost.
Click to expand...
She did indeed get a boost, and she was originally weaker than Giant Ribrianne. High 4-C base Ribrianne, that sounds accurate. 3-A Super/Giant Ribrianne? no. Super Ribrianne was stronger than SUPRESSED base Goku. Goku suppressed himself for pretty much everyone but Universe 6 and 11. Sure he bothered to go SSB, but that wasn't comparable to Ribrianne. It one shot and knocked her out of that state. Also, Giant Ribrianne still got defeated by High 4-C 18. Not to mention, Android 18's reasoning for being High 4-C makes her High 4-C. That's not deniable.
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high 4-C is the same standard as the fodder in the ToP though, it sounds like a massive minimum, and honestly it only works if the possibility of 3-A 18 was on there, which people still agree with.

Super Ribrianne wasn't much of a difference tbh, she apparently got stronger but i didnt see it at all, and SSB goku is SSB Goku. 3-A, again is a wide tier, as both Base and SSB goku fit into it, and theres apparently a large power difference inbetween them. And Its not just Goku who she fought, she also thought Vegeta who went SS2 and 17 who she was equal footing with at full power and is 3-A. It was just a weak transformation, but that doesn't place her on the same league as the fodder.

If you're saying 18 got a noticeable boost in power, then why do you think shes still only High 4-C? theres a chance she is higher, and nothing afterwards disproves it, seeing as she still fought those other U2 characters who apparently surpassed them by completing a new technique. It's a dumb powerup but she still shows 3-A. And 18's reasoning for 3-A also makes her sound like 3-A, except all the moments that say shes high 4-C point to before she retained her asspull power up, and the backwards logci with Ribrianne. No ones denying she hasn't had High 4-C feats, but theres denying that there isnt logic logic she could be 3-A too. Which usually in these situations the wiki does 'At least [[[]]], mostlikely/possibly [[[]]', which i dont see whats wrong with here
 
Jinx666 said:
Right yeah thing is buddy, the Power of friendship boosts usually aren't labelled outliers when they appear on this wiki. Mainly because it is a main shonen anime element, and while its dumb, it still is just the reason for that boost. Nothing after it disproves 18 being just as strong

I dont really think they do tbh. 18 was one of the longer survivors of the tournament, and at this point 3-A in Dragon Ball is just...casual. After she beat Ribrianne, nothing else really completely debunked that power she had, sure she got caught by Anilaza, but anilaza was easily stronger than Ribrianne. She's never shown training intensely but the fact Goku would still ask her to join, knowing her strength at least, alreayd blows out the fact shes became irrelevant enough to even be a part of the tournament. And her 3-A was mainly FOR defeating Ribrianne, so its backwards thinking in saying Ribrianne shouldnt be 3-A because 18 isnt, and unlike 18, ribrianne has shown multiple 3-A feats, more so than her High 4-C.

And thats not my point, memorable to Goku, in the sense she appeared in the flashback among the likes of Kefla, the GoDs and the Universe 9 trio, just shows she wasn't irrelevant, Goku still enjoyed fighting her, and to fight her he essentially did have to value her ability. Yamcha wasn't even in the tournament of power, you missed my poiny completely.

What evidence is there exactly, other than the backwards logic with 18 beating her, that fully disproves 3-A Ribrianne? Cause even base goku and vegeta can be 3-A casually now, and its a wide tier, so being tossed around a little by them despite remarking they had to try a little doesn't say Ribrianne is weaker. I mean, we legitimately see her fighting on par with 17 who wasn't holding back like he stated, and one shot his barrier with one bloodlusted punch. Sure GoD Toppo didnt break it immediately, but his Justice Flash is a volley, so their strength value is in their stack damage and speed, and 17 had to reinforce his forcefields multiple times to survive Jiren's attacks. This was Ribrianne at what seemed to be her strongest, and 17 may have won in the end but only due to the infinite stamina advantage, as Ribrianne likely couldn't hold that same power and would start to decline.

Again, since its 'controversial', and there are points for both (even though nothing honestly disproves 3-A Ribrianne from what ive seen other than 18 who got a noticeable power boost), then why not just make it 'At least High 4-C, possibly 3-A' and please everybody? I'd push for that with 18 too but i dont think that topic will do any good
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Don't call me buddy. You're right about outliers on the wiki.

3-A in dragon ball is casual for stronger characters. 18 has always been weaker. Weaker than Trunks, weaker than Cell. Always a step behind all major characters. Because, to be honest, 18 is not a major character. She hasn't really done anything of relevance in Dragon Ball since she became good. The only real things she's done in the tournament of power is get saved. She defeated someone (with the help of Krillin), she defeated Ribrianne (because of a boost from Krillin and a shield from a blast from 17), she also survived a punch from Katopesla (because 17 blocked it.) Of course she's not irrelevant, but compared to other DB characters, she's not strong either. What 3-A feats has Ribrianne shown? Fighting HEAVILY suppressed Goku and Vegeta?

Let me explain why Ribrianne was memorable to Goku. He remembers the tournament of power. Because Ribrianne was in TOP, he remembers Ribrianne. Not at all because Ribrianne was strong. Otherwise, he would've transformed. I mean, he did transform, but that utterly curbstomped Ribrianne.

What backwards logic? Android 18 was proven to be Large Star level, if Ribrianne at her strongest was defeated by a Large Star Level character, she is Large Star level.

I said it COULD BECOME controversial. It's not controversial yet. You bring up good points, but I don't think it's enough to change the opinions of people like Nedge, Kep, and Dark.
 
[I]Jinx 666 said:
[/I]

If you're saying 18 got a noticeable boost in power, then why do you think shes still only High 4-C? theres a chance she is higher, and nothing afterwards disproves it, seeing as she still fought those other U2 characters who apparently surpassed them by completing a new technique. It's a dumb powerup but she still shows 3-A. And 18's reasoning for 3-A also makes her sound like 3-A, except all the moments that say shes high 4-C point to before she retained her asspull power up, and the backwards logci with Ribrianne. No ones denying she hasn't had High 4-C feats, but theres denying that there isnt logic logic she could be 3-A too. Which usually in these situations the wiki does 'At least [[[]]], mostlikely/possibly [[[]]', which i dont see whats wrong with here
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If goku turns Super Saiyan in DBS, it's a noticeable boost of power, but either way he is 3-A. Of course there is a chance she's higher. That's why it says "Possibly far higher". You're pretty much arguing with what's there. High 4-C, possible far higher. Far higher could be anywhere from High 4-C to 3-A. I also originally argued that Ribrianne was 3-A, however it was quickly debunked by staff. You're pretty much redoing this thread from the top.
 
There's not much to be argued that isn't already there, Jinx. Would it hurt to agree to disagree?
 
If you want to argue you can make a different thread, but doing this to my thread won't accomplish anything. Or if you want to argue personally send me a message on my wall.
 
TheMasculineMineta said:
SuperDragoon978 said:
18 definitely got a huge boost in strength while fighting Ribrianne. She seemed weaker than Giant Ribrianne at first but then got some love boost or something and overpowered her. Honestly, I would be fine with High 4-C Base Ribrianne, 3-A Super/Giant Ribrianne (Since Super Ribrianne was strong enough that Base Goku was impressed and bothered to go SSB, and Giant Ribrianne should be as strong or stronger than that). As well as High 4-C 18, 3-A with love boost.
Click to expand...
She did indeed get a boost, and she was originally weaker than Giant Ribrianne. High 4-C base Ribrianne, that sounds accurate. 3-A Super/Giant Ribrianne? no. Super Ribrianne was stronger than SUPRESSED base Goku. Goku suppressed himself for pretty much everyone but Universe 6 and 11. Sure he bothered to go SSB, but that wasn't comparable to Ribrianne. It one shot and knocked her out of that state. Also, Giant Ribrianne still got defeated by High 4-C 18. Not to mention, Android 18's reasoning for being High 4-C makes her High 4-C. That's not deniable.
Click to expand...
I still haven't seen a source that Goku was suppressing himself for the entire tournament.It's already been pointed out that DBS Broly Goku considered Ribrianne as one of the stronger people from the tournament. I already pointed out that Goku was impressed with her strength, especially compared to other random fighters he didn't care about in comparison. Why Goku would care for someone that he could one-shot without even transforming if he felt like it is beyond me. Unless their are any statements during the Goku vs. Ribrianne fight where it is flat out stated he is toying with her, which to my knowledge there are none, then the simplest answer is that Ribrianne is indeed 3-A in her transformations. As with love boosted 18.
 
@Super dragoon it was never stated that Goku was holding back against Krillin or mind controlled Roshi, I guess they should be 3-A.
 
@Mineta

Right yeah sure, nothing rude was meant by it,

She was actually stronger than Trunks during her debut ofc, and Cell was Cell, literally made to absorb the two androids in order o become stronger. She's definitely surpassed Cell now that she can break Kachii Katchin. 3-A is pretty much casual in the sense that any who can contend with a base Goku/vegeta or higher, or force him to transform. Even Cabba and Magetta are at that level, so i dont see why Ribrianne, who was overall more of an actual threat than them, so i dont see why an 18 who was specifically one of the better fighters in this tourney, and even considered it, couldnt be 3-A with the feats she had gained post her transformation.

And i honestly dont know if you're being ignorant or not, as i have literally stated a load if her 3-A feats, her most notable being able to fight evenly with 17 at what we can assume was her bloodlust, and easily broke his forcefield with a single punch.

No, thats not the point. in his flashback, he remembered the more notable stronger fighters he had thought, like Kefla, the GoDs and Universe 9 trio.Ribrianne was right there with them, not some of the other fodder fighters, so he does remember her distinctly when he was talking about strong opponents at the time, not just any of the fighters. And yeah, she did lose her weak transformation after SSB, but again, 3-A is an extremely wide tier, both Goku and SSB goku fit into it, and heck so does Anilaza. Base Goku is still 3-A after absorbing it, and Goku legit stated he couldnt phase her in that state. Theres nothing that says she cant be in 3-A. Heck, both Kale and Caulifla were fighting a surpressed Goku, but theyre still 3-A for the very reason. Caulifla at least, Kale has more backing.

Backwards logic as in the reasoning is behind '18 beat Ribrianne who is 4-B or whatever' and 'Ribrianne lost to 18 and therefore is 4-B'. Theryre both being marked for fighting eachother etc, even though ribrianne at a much stronger level of her power, and a better fighting mindset, kept up with 17. everyone agrees it was bullshit 18 even beat ribrianne from the start and was merely to give her a moment, but with the power up there, theres still more solid reasoning for them both just being 3-A in my opinion than the lowball High 4-B they have got, which is on the same level as the fodders. 18 and ribrianne were definitely on the far end of the power list. And Ribrianne 'at her strongest', was also able to contend with multiple 3-A's, and only lost because really, for plot, since it was only to give 18 a good moment.

It is controversial, back when it first emerged there was loads of talk about it to the point they had to temporarily suspend discussion about ToP scaling. 17 was also a controversial topic. They however might be admins, but aren't the ones at the end of the day who can solely decide on the scaling, so as long as theres an argument ill keep, we can still debate. I actually would like them to respond to this, or specifically me, because i dont reall it ever happening.

Also it solves less if i were arguing this with you in a message wall instead of an actual revision thread lol.

Well Goku, Vegeta AND 17 (17 the key one you keep forgetting) have both at times struggled fighting her, even in transformed states, and 17 who wasn't supressing himself at all due to no consequence in doing so. Im arguing for something like ' At least lowball tier, possibly (actual tier) , as we actually have evidence for that limit to be 3-A, rather than just being blunt with possibly far higher. Im still a firm believer of 3-A Ribrianne and 18 though, but if we were to bring that up again, it would only spark the controversy.

And so what? Just because your mind was changed doesnt mean people dont still have valid points, nor can you look down on them.In any fact you havent actually been responding to the main points, as in how Ribrianne isnt 3-A for merely being tossed by what seemed to be a suppressed goku (that would still be 3-A), and the fact that we literally saw her in her strongest state (that wasnt complete outliers and plot progressors), fighting evenly with 17 and breaking his barrier, who was NOT suppressed.
 
Jinx666 said:
@Mineta

Right yeah sure, nothing rude was meant by it,

She was actually stronger than Trunks during her debut ofc, and Cell was Cell, literally made to absorb the two androids in order o become stronger. She's definitely surpassed Cell now that she can break Kachii Katchin. 3-A is pretty much casual in the sense that any who can contend with a base Goku/vegeta or higher, or force him to transform. Even Cabba and Magetta are at that level, so i dont see why Ribrianne, who was overall more of an actual threat than them, so i dont see why an 18 who was specifically one of the better fighters in this tourney, and even considered it, couldnt be 3-A with the feats she had gained post her transformation.

And i honestly dont know if you're being ignorant or not, as i have literally stated a load if her 3-A feats, her most notable being able to fight evenly with 17 at what we can assume was her bloodlust, and easily broke his forcefield with a single punch.

No, thats not the point. in his flashback, he remembered the more notable stronger fighters he had thought, like Kefla, the GoDs and Universe 9 trio.Ribrianne was right there with them, not some of the other fodder fighters, so he does remember her distinctly when he was talking about strong opponents at the time, not just any of the fighters. And yeah, she did lose her weak transformation after SSB, but again, 3-A is an extremely wide tier, both Goku and SSB goku fit into it, and heck so does Anilaza. Base Goku is still 3-A after absorbing it, and Goku legit stated he couldnt phase her in that state. Theres nothing that says she cant be in 3-A. Heck, both Kale and Caulifla were fighting a surpressed Goku, but theyre still 3-A for the very reason. Caulifla at least, Kale has more backing.

Backwards logic as in the reasoning is behind '18 beat Ribrianne who is 4-B or whatever' and 'Ribrianne lost to 18 and therefore is 4-B'. Theryre both being marked for fighting eachother etc, even though ribrianne at a much stronger level of her power, and a better fighting mindset, kept up with 17. everyone agrees it was bullshit 18 even beat ribrianne from the start and was merely to give her a moment, but with the power up there, theres still more solid reasoning for them both just being 3-A in my opinion than the lowball High 4-B they have got, which is on the same level as the fodders. 18 and ribrianne were definitely on the far end of the power list. And Ribrianne 'at her strongest', was also able to contend with multiple 3-A's, and only lost because really, for plot, since it was only to give 18 a good moment.

It is controversial, back when it first emerged there was loads of talk about it to the point they had to temporarily suspend discussion about ToP scaling. 17 was also a controversial topic. They however might be admins, but aren't the ones at the end of the day who can solely decide on the scaling, so as long as theres an argument ill keep, we can still debate. I actually would like them to respond to this, or specifically me, because i dont reall it ever happening.

Also it solves less if i were arguing this with you in a message wall instead of an actual revision thread lol.

Well Goku, Vegeta AND 17 (17 the key one you keep forgetting) have both at times struggled fighting her, even in transformed states, and 17 who wasn't supressing himself at all due to no consequence in doing so. Im arguing for something like ' At least lowball tier, possibly (actual tier) , as we actually have evidence for that limit to be 3-A, rather than just being blunt with possibly far higher. Im still a firm believer of 3-A Ribrianne and 18 though, but if we were to bring that up again, it would only spark the controversy.

And so what? Just because your mind was changed doesnt mean people dont still have valid points, nor can you look down on them.In any fact you havent actually been responding to the main points, as in how Ribrianne isnt 3-A for merely being tossed by what seemed to be a suppressed goku (that would still be 3-A), and the fact that we literally saw her in her strongest state (that wasnt complete outliers and plot progressors), fighting evenly with 17 and breaking his barrier, who was NOT suppressed.
Click to expand...
This is actually annoying me. Can you agree to disagree?
 
Dont quote large blocks of text.

This is a revision thread isnt it? the point isn't really to just put our views meaninglessly, you merely initiated the debate. Just dont reply if you done want lol, but im not convinced in the slightest
 
I know, I want to stop responding. But you're saying so many things I feel like I need to contradict.
 
There are no feats higher than 4-B in the Manga Cell Saga, same for the Buu Saga.
 
I meant after the cell games

Are you sure there are no feats above 4-b in the buu arc for some reason I doubt that
 
TheMasculineMineta said:
Hey Dark, can you close the thread?
Click to expand...
Well, yes the upgrade you suggested was applied the others can do another thread for their revisions.
 
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