Revision of Nagakabouros's Tier

[RegisNex1232]

So after a discussion with Assaltwaffle and searching for Riot statements in the links given, I decided to make this thread to revise Naga from 2-B to Unknown, Possibly 3-B given the lack of conclusive evidence and statements in the profile. Below is the AP section which I will go through as to why it fails to support the rating.


Attack Potency: Multiverse level (Created the League of Legends multiverse, which contains a countless number of parallel universes and timelines (as referenced by Kindred), and all branching alternate universes, as well as The Void which exists outside of these universes. Stated that as powerful as Aurelion Sol is, he is nowhere near as powerful as Nagakabouros, that comparing Aurelion Sol to Nagakabouros is like comparing a dung beetle to the Theory of Relativity, that Nagakabouros exists within multiple realities and multiple realms, and that Nagakabouros' existence is too great to be understood by mortal minds)

The first part refers to creating the LoL multiverse, which is unfortunately not substanstiated anywhere, whether in lore or Riot statements. The other screenshots all give vague comparisons between Aurelion Sol, who is 3-B, and Naga, placing Naga at a level above him that is difficult to quantify beyond At least 3-B, possibly higher as the gap in the tier is quite large. That, along with the general lack of feats or such makes it very difficult to give a conclusive rating. Hence the revision.

Please kindly give your thoughts below.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Naga is bare minimum 2-C from the discussion Assalt and I had

 

[RegisNex1232]

I spoke with Assalt today and he seems to support Unknown for now.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Cool, And i still support 2-C via the actual feats shown in the lore and given by the Devs

 

[RegisNex1232]

Cool, And i still support 2-C via the actual feats shown in the lore and given by the Devs

Which feats? I've pointed out that Riot statements are very vague to define anything, and Naga has no feats in the lore.

 

[StrongClick]

I agree with OP, until there is better evidence Unknown is good

 

[Wokistan]

Before this just turns into you two being passive agressive/regular aggressive at one another for 400 posts, let's see if this can be conclusively resolved. Weekly, please post your examples of said feats you're referring to. If you feel your conversation with Assalt is important in some way, I'd advise pasting over the relevant bits.

Regis you should probably do something similar with what you and assalt talked about if he's okay with it.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I think "at least 3-B" is almost insulting. Purely unknown may be the best. I'd also be fine with 2-C, just not 2-B, since nothing proves she exists as all universes.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

• comparing Aurelion Sol to Nagakabouros is like comparing a dung beetle to the Theory of Relativity, and A Sol is only bound to one plane of reality whereas Nagakabouros exists within multiple realities and multiple realms
• A Sol is on a higher plane of being than Illaoi, but he is the beetle calling the ant small, Nagakabouros is All
  • Substantiated by Illaoi directly stating that 'all is Nagakabouros' to go along with that 'Nagakabouros is all' statement from the devs
  • Also, "Naga exists somewhere between Brahman and Tiamat and is defined as being too great to be understood by mortal minds".
• Those who fail Illaoi's test have their energy recycled back into the universe
  • As per The Burde:
    • "We pulled him from the water, as you commanded" the Hierophant smiled, adjusting the jade collar of her office. "Perhaps it would have been better to let his energy return to Nagakabouros?"

Ergo Nagakabouros is the universe and the universe is Nagakabouros

• Multiple references to Naga's influence directly affecting the normal universe and being the universe/her will being the will of the universe/the universe being her will

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Assalt 'Unknown, likely 2-C' then?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Wok Done

 

[Wokistan]

3-B does seem like a huge lowball. It seems like a similar case to dark Samus where unknown's the best option. Being the universe would be Low 2-C though, unless I'm missing something.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Well, I suggested 3-B, since it's the most accurate rating without much extrapolation needed given that Aurelion Sol is apparently baseline 3-B and far weaker than Naga. Unknown however would be better as it is still too vague to say.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

'Unknown, likely 2-C' is the most accurate tier here given all of the evidence i posted above

 

[RegisNex1232]

All of this is either linked in the OP or too vague to conclusively say 2-C.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Nothing is vague about what i linked, it is about as blatant as it can get

 

[Wokistan]

The one where the lady says that those who fail get recycled into the universe then also says "let's recycle him into naga" seems rather blatant though.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

So basically the argument for Naga is this:

If Naga exists in multiple universes and is the universe itself, then Naga is 2-C.

So we need to prove Naga exists in multiple universes and is the universe. The former is easy: Aurelion Sol is bound to one reality and Naga is not, as directly stated. The latter is a bit harder but can be deduced. A priest states that the energy of a destroyed soul will be returned to Nagakabouros. In the same context of soul destruction, it is stated that the soul will be returned to the universe.

These can only both be simultaneously true if Naga and the universe are one and the same and both must be true, therefore Naga is the universe.

 

[RegisNex1232]

It says Naga exists in multiple realities and is all. The rest is vague and overall says nothing about Naga's level beyond "is beyond Aurelion Sol". Is existing in multiple realities even an AP feat?

 

[Wokistan]

I don't think existing in multiple universes is itself 2-C. We don't get 2-B Gorgo because it exists across the numerous VoG timelines. Existing in multiple universes while also being the universe seems contradictory anyways.

However low 2-C at minimum seems pretty clear.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Wok Seeing as Illaoi has multiple Alternate Universe versions of herself, that is where the 2-C would come from

 

[RegisNex1232]

Returning to the universe is still too iffy, given that Naga could simply be considered in charge of the soul/energy cycle, like say the Soul Society in Bleach.

 

[Wokistan]

Yeah but you'd need all those AU selves to consider Naga as a collective thing binding all of them for something like that. Why can't there be a different nagakaburos making up all the universes, for instance?

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Regis

It's mainly that universe and Naga seem to be interchangeable in that context.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Wok Because Naga was stated by the devs to be active in multiple universes?

 

[Wokistan]

So is that how they reconcile the statements of it being a universe while simultaneously existing in multiple?

If I'm understanding it correctly and the invidual lllaois just don't know Naga is larger than they think 2-C seems fine.

 

[RegisNex1232]

@Assalt it's still vague unlike someone like Galactus, who has statements and possible showings supporting 2-C, while in this case we have to rely on deductions and a single statement. A hard level is 3-B given the vast gap in the Tier and that Aurelion is apparently baseline. Naga could easily be at the top of the Tier, maybe even 3-A if you want to stretch it that far.

How about Unknown, Possibly 3-B (insert explanation) to 2-C (Insert different explanation)?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

3-B is ridiculous downplay

Thats like making Goku 9-C because he's stronger than any human, 3-A because of his actual feats

 

[Kepekley23]

As I have told Assalt myself I disagree with 2-C and think "At least Low 2-C" is more accurate.

There is absolutely no (so far linked) proof Nagakabouros encompasses multiple universes, just that it encompasses one universe and exists in multiple ones. Which translates to Low 2-C with 2-C range, not AP.

 

[Wokistan]

From what I can tell of this dude's role in LoL (this isn't even a verse I know I just end up evaluating for some reason), he's not exactly of a character archetype that gets a ton of feats. More like a living universe/vague creator god type thing.

Unknow, possibly 2-C seems to be the best option, as something being still 3-B when with that whole dung beetle to relativity comparison and the 3-B gap being surprisingly small seems weird, especially with the other stuff.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Wokistan "Universe" is oftentimes misused, just like "world". I wouldn't hang on it.

@Regis I think "Unknown, at least 3-B, possibly 2-C" is a way to go, although including 3-B at all is rough.

 

[RegisNex1232]

3-B is ridiculous downplay

Thats like making Goku 9-C because he's stronger than any human, 3-A because of his actual feats

How is it ridiculous when it's a clear extrapolation from a statement without any extra info?

 

[Kepekley23]

2-B shouldn't be a possibility. It shouldn't be there at all. It is unbacked.

3-B is a low-end.

I also disagree with 2-C. None of the statements are 2-C. They're Low 2-C statements in their high-end.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Regis Because there are clear and blatant statements of Naga being the universe itself.

Of course a Low 2-C would be vastly stronger than a 3-B that doesnt mean that we should bring the Low 2-C down to 3-B for no reason.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Kep There are three separate universes that Naga is confirmed to be, that is wherr the 2-C comes from

 

[RegisNex1232]

@Wokistan "Universe" is oftentimes misused, just like "world". I wouldn't hang on it.

@Regis I think "Unknown, at least 3-B, possibly 2-B" is a way to go, although including 3-B at all is rough.

The problem is that the gap described is hard to put into numbers or Tiers, so 3-B as a hard cap, noting it's at the top of the Tier is pretty safe and can always be changed later more easily.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

3-B is unsupported

The only thing that is supported is Low 2-C to 2-C

 

[Kepekley23]

There is no proof at all that Nagakabouros encompasses three universes. He encompasses one universe (Low 2-C) and exists in more than one universe. That's not AP, at all.

Only thing I can at most see here is "Low 2-C, possibly higher"

 

[RegisNex1232]

So how does Unknown, At Least 3-B to Low 2-C (insert explanation) sound to everyone?

Edits.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Kep I can agree to Low 2-C, possibly higher, but the 3-B is a hard no from me