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To a certain degree sure. But logical sense still has to play a factor when writing stories. If the guy only uses a 1000 moves in a 5 minute long fight. It’s ******* useless to be a million steps ahead.
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Return of the most Skilled Thread
- Thread starter First_Witch
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azontr
He/Him- 40,420
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You can apply logic to fiction, obviously, but you're really applying to much logic in this scenario. Don't read that much into it.
azontr
He/Him- 40,420
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It's not a matter of whether or not you need it, it's a matter of whether or not it's in the story and it's a thing. You don't dictate how abilities work. If you want to, you can write you're own story and apply this logic to it.
azontr
He/Him- 40,420
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In this situation, I, quite literally, can.
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This is the same line of reasoning those saitama wankers used to try an argue why he beats everyone in fiction
They say because that he is a gag character that logic doesn’t apply to him. That because it doesn’t make sense for him to beat everyone, is the very reason he does beat everyone.
Consistency matters. It’s the only logical conclusion
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If someone could make beyond infinite moves in any given time, then whoopdeedoo you've just found the exact problem with your argument.
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There's a massive difference in saying logic doesn't apply to a character at all and acknowledging a feat even if it isn't entirely logical so that Saitama example is a pretty poor example.
While feats should follow some modicum of logic and can be discarded if blatantly irreconcilable ("x-haxxing an x-less being" for instance), this instant doesn't even seem nearly as illogical as other feats on the site.
While feats should follow some modicum of logic and can be discarded if blatantly irreconcilable ("x-haxxing an x-less being" for instance), this instant doesn't even seem nearly as illogical as other feats on the site.
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In other words DTG...
azontr
He/Him- 40,420
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Impressive strawman.
But no, that's not what I said. At all. There is a large difference between logic not applying all together and interpreting a clearly illogical feat into the standards of the site.
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E
Explain the difference between these two fights. Not the difference between the characters the difference between the fights.
Character A and character B are both going to separately fight character C. Each fight last 5 minutes there are 1000 moves thrown by character C in each fight. Character A has infinite analytical prediction character B is able to predict everything character C is going to throw.
Explain to me the difference between these two fights. How would the outcome be any different between character A and B?
the feat in question has NO logic to it at all.
Explain the difference between these two fights. Not the difference between the characters the difference between the fights.
Character A and character B are both going to separately fight character C. Each fight last 5 minutes there are 1000 moves thrown by character C in each fight. Character A has infinite analytical prediction character B is able to predict everything character C is going to throw.
Explain to me the difference between these two fights. How would the outcome be any different between character A and B?
azontr
He/Him- 40,420
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Who cares if the outcome isn't going to be different??? That is not how you dictate the sense of abilities. If you want to argue how useful it is, then that's a different story, but if you want to try and talk about if the ability itself functions properly or makes sense then you are being way, way to uptight in terms of logic.
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Improper use of strawman. That’s not even the point I’m trying to make. I’m saying that we still clearly draw lines of logic in these fiction works.
azontr
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Not lines of logic this thin.
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The point being that because there is no difference in the outcome of these controlled variable fights that there is no difference between the abilities.
When the controlled variable we are testing application of these two abilities on is constantly changing but the test results stay the same. It means the two abilities are the same.
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Dude you need to elaborate
azontr
He/Him- 40,420
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Two abilities being the same still means one can be superior to the other. We aren't saying that the abilities are different, we're saying that ultimately, or well, I am saying, that being able to predict a further amount of moves is an inherently superior form of prediction than being able to predict a lesser amount of moves. I am beginning to find that this is less of a problem with the abilities and more of a problem with the potency.
By thin lines of logic, I mean you're applying to much logic to something that ultimately doesn't follow logic, nor requires it. Yes, you can apply logic to fictional, nonsensical situations, we do that all the time, but, there comes a point where the line between fiction and logic becomes so thin that you're making it seem as if the two things are synonymous with each other.
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Ok if the scenario of the fight is that it’s going to last an infinite amount of time or that both characters have infinite speed. Then yes having infinite analytical prediction will be useful.
My point is that infinite speed fights almost never happen because speed is always equalized and fights that last a infinite amount of time will be counted as an inconclusive match.
Think about the abilities in action how they are actually shown. We draw clear lines between statements of abilities and abilities as they are portrayed in action.
azontr
He/Him- 40,420
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It's not a matter of the ability being useful, again, it's a matter of the ability existing in the first place and functioning like it does. If you could predict, say 100 moves, and a fight only lasts 100 moves, but the opponent can predict an quadrillion moves in a fight that'll only last 100 moves, then it doesn't matter if the ability is useful or not, it's still inherently superior to the prediction that can only predict 100 moves.
At this point I'm just gonna stop cause this is getting boring af.
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Ok let’s expand on this idea. “Ultimately doesn’t follow logic” Do you think every work of fiction follows this idea completely?
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Superior in very rare and specific situations yes.
azontr
He/Him- 40,420
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Yeah but in the context of the situation being able to predict a quintavazillion movements or something doesn't follow logic. I'm not applying this to like series that do actually follow logic/real life I'm applying it to like, Shonen or science fiction series where an ability like this would actually ******* appear lmao.
Bro be acting like Sherlock Holmes gonna pull up prediction infinite steps ahead or some shit with his god level skill and precog
Superior in literally any situation.
azontr
He/Him- 40,420
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Yeah, but it is inherently superior regardless. Predicting more, means better prediction.
Also why you acting like a fight finna last like, specifically 100 moves or something. We can't even know if a fight is gonna last a specific number of moves lmao.
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Ok timeframe still exist in these works of fiction. A minute in the real world is still a minute in the fictional world. I’m not talking about cinematic time I’m talking about from the perspective of the characters.
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Again you keep saying that statements are better but that’s not my argument. I’m talking about the prediction IN ACTION.
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I promise you a quadrillion moves is not going to be thrown in a fight that was equalized to hypersonic.
azontr
He/Him- 40,420
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In action you don't actually know the specific number of moves a fight is going to last. So you can't say whether or not it'll work better or worse in action in the first place because it's fiction and you literally cannot know unless a specific time-frame is stated, and, in a VS Debate, there is no time limit on a fight.
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which inherently DOESN'T MATTER lmfao
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We know for a fact that the characters won’t throw a infinite number of moves in a fight that only lasts a finite number of time.
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Buddy you literally just said feats don’t matter.
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You interpreted it as such cause it helps your argument. It does not matter what it does in action unless proven to not be good/perfect, inherently beyond a shadow of a doubt the higher number of moves predicted the better the combat precog/ANAL prediction.
azontr
He/Him- 40,420
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But having the ability to predict an infinite number of moves means you have an infinite number of options to choose from. Meaning, you have infinitely better precognition than the opponent with finite precog. Meaning, the precog is superior.
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
He/Him- 3,706
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What's happening? LOL
azontr
He/Him- 40,420
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Precog debate lmfao. I don't even know.
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Do agree that there is a difference between having an infinite number of moves and being an infinite number of steps ahead of your opponent?
azontr
He/Him- 40,420
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Yes. But that doesn't matter.
If you are an infinite number of steps ahead of you're opponent, even if they don't have infinite moves, it is still inherently superior to any finite precognition they may have.
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You are making the same claim over and over. Elaborate on the claim. I already know you think it’s superior. I’m asking you to explain how, in action, it’s useful.
Paint me a very detailed picture of a fight in which knowing everything your opponent will do is different than an infinite steps ahead. That isn’t an infinite speed fight or a fight that lasts forever.
