Resistance negation vs layers

[Chariot190]

Which is why he used his Devil Fruit to knock Ace away before it became an issue. His entire hand was completely scorched for the short amount of time Ace's Haki came into contact with Whitebeard.

Not stated. Not even shown, his hand wouldn't have been just blackened a bit, Ace's heat is apparently tens of thousands of degrees, any contact at all would have vaporized.

He was on incontact long enough for an explosion to, well, explode, debris to be launched and for a fodder to go "woah!" and step back. To argue Ace somehow removed his innate physiological resistance in full is just objectively wrong based on what we see, that or Ace's fire is like maybe 100-200 degrees in heat?

My guy, his training regarding his flames particularly was to use them to accelerate his feet so that he can hit harder

That was half of it, let's not pretend otherwise, given they literally reference both as seperate factors? Force and control. The imperative is "while".

and pairing it together with his Kenbun Haki to confuse Whitebeard. He trained those two and then he trained his Buso on top of that. Those were the only trainings that were pointed out.

Yeah? Why wouldn't actively controlling his flames better in conjuction with other stuff lead to his growth? That's kind of the point of the scene to begin with no? Showing he got stronger.

Any claim that he trained the heat of his flames is headcanon.

As is your claim that it was solely Buso that enabled this.
They do not state "He negated his resistance", in fact if he did it was so minor given the scale of heat we're talking about that even attempting to argue it's fullscale is disingenious from the get go, they do not state it was solely buso, they do not even state this resistance of Whitebeard's has anything to do his innate biology as is the crux of the argument.

Ignoring none of this is on any of the profiles and the profiles even state the opposite, so you're gonna wanna get that changed before arguing this, the best I can say is that "maybe" it has minor resistance negation if we take everything you've said as true.

 

[Kachon123]

Not stated. Not even shown

Again, not going to debate this as it's already accepted.

 

[Chariot190]

Again, not going to debate this as it's already accepted.

Did you like, ignore half your own scans? Unless you don't think several seconds isn't enough to flash vaporize with the alleged heat he has?

Also it isn't, I can't find this anywhere in regards to resistance negation on even one OP page.

 

[Ryuga21]

Unless you don't think several seconds isn't enough to flash vaporize with the alleged heat he has?

Several seconds based on what? Whitebeard was about 10 times faster than Ace and his Kenbun Haki that grants him precog was passively active in this key. He clearly used a massive wave of vibration (and haki once it knocked Ace himself) to block Ace's heat before it could reach him any further.

 

[Chariot190]

Several seconds based on what? Whitebeard was about 10 times faster than Ace and his Kenbun Haki that grants him precog was passively active in this key. He clearly used a massive wave of vibration (and haki once it knocked Ace himself) to block Ace's heat before it could reach him any further.

Based on the fact on the fact there was an explosion, debris got launched and began falling (a few meters at that), and a literal nobody had time to react and go "woah!" and "aah!", all before Whitebeard did that (we can tell based on the fact we literally see his hand on contact, and in the following panel we don't see any effects of his fruit, it's only the panel after this he uses it).
Why even ask, I pointed this out already?

Even if we ignore the fodder yapping and moving before WB did anything, the debris and falling ground would still give us like a second.

explode, debris to be launched and for a fodder to go "woah!" and step back.

It wasn't super fast, contact was made, in a relevant amount of time. So either the resistance neg is just dogshit and barely mitigated his resistance, or Ace's heat just isn't as hot as the profiles suggest as at that temperature he's at, not even half a second would absolutely cook and evaporate flesh. Yet all he got was a bit scorched.

 

[Ryuga21]

Based on the fact on the fact there was an explosion, debris got launched and began falling (a few meters at that), and a literal nobody had time to react and go "woah!" and "aah!", all before Whitebeard did that

Dude, if WB took too long to use his abilities in this panel as you indicate, Ace's blow would have gone all the way through him since his flames cannot be blocked normally. The point is, Whitebeard used Haki to protect himself from the flames and then used his fruit (along with Haki as well) to push Ace away, and that IS what we see in the following scan. He says that Ace managed to burn him, but that was only for a short period of time, before he blocks it and it took probably less than milliseconds.

 

[Chariot190]

Dude, if WB took too long to use his abilities in this panel as you indicate, Ace's blow would have gone all the way through him since his flames cannot be blocked normally.

Don't care. That's what's shown. The timeframe indicated contradicts it taking like a fucktrillionth of a second timeframe. Ace being able to do that or not doesn't change that, unless we have a stated speed at which his flames can permeate without relying on calcs (Literally why we don't stack calcs).

The point is, Whitebeard used Haki to protect himself from the flames and then used his fruit (along with Haki as well) to push Ace away, and that IS what we see in the following scan.

Not shown at all. You just said it yourself too, "in the following scan", ace himself doesn't even react to Whiteberad doing anything, till AFTER the explosion and fodder reacting and debris and etc.

Literally, the panel AFTER is that happening, you're ignoring the inbetween.

He says that Ace managed to burn him, but that was only for a short period of time, before he blocks it and it took probably less than milliseconds.

Not shown. I don't want "probably", the fact you preface that "probably" tells me it isn't a fact, but an assumption.
I want proof. We see, on panel, a timeframe. We do not see him react at all till after this timeframe. The timeframe, while "short", isn't short enough for the argument "he was only touched for a moment" to hold fruit, unless you argue Ace's heat is like dozens to a hundred times below what we list him at.

Plus, we don't even really see any semblance of Haki being used either. To argue he used Haki, would be to argue he used Haki in the first encounter too, as there is literally no difference between them.
If that is the case, then at no point can we assume it's a natural resistance, because Haki would be involved both ways, in which case it just circles back to heat resistance being a byproduct of Haki not innate physiology and yadda yadda, almost like the Haki page implicates

This also doesn't change the fact that even 1/10th of a second would make him loss his whole arm. We know it was longer than this as we see collateral occur before he did anything to protetc himself further.

So cool, do you not understand how hot 25,000 degrees is? If Whitebeard had zero resistance due to Ace's Haki, even for half 1/10th of a second he wouldn't have just been negligibly burned, he wouldn't even have an arm.

Like it or not, before Whitebeard did anything to further protect himself, time passed, now was it a lot of time? Not really. But if the argument is the sole reason he got burned this time was a negating of resistance and not various other factors like him just growing post training, better flames, etc, it doesn't hold up because the time, even though short, would result in damage far, far, beyond what happened to him if his res was just set to human standards basically. And even then, we'd just go with minor because that's what we actually see and not anything past that even if true.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Idk why op is brought up here but

Layers are not stronger potency, a person resisting 5000 Celsius and then afterwards resists 6000 Celsius, doesn't make his resistance layered. And also if a person's ability is 5000 C and then gets upgraded to 6000 C, that also wouldn't make the ability layered

You'd only get layered resistance if you resist the ability 5000 C heat, that's layered (Like 5000 C Fire manipulation can't affect someone and then 5000 C Fire manipulation does effect them, when layering the ability)

Resistance negation would only negate the specific resistances shown to negate... For example if they negated a 2 layered fire resistance then that doesn't mean they can negate a 15 layered fire resistance

It would only work to what they are shown to negate

Like, If the person A have Soul Manipulation resistance 5 layers, and Person B have resistance negation to Soul Manipulation, It would bypass It?

No, Only if Person B's resistance negation has negated a 5 layered Soul Manipulation resistance

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Normally Resistance Negation is based on an attack that bypasses resistances, not directly removing someone's resistances from them. But if someone did have the ability to remove resistance from a person, then yes, even someone who can resist the temperature of the sun would be burned by fire.

Are you sure..? I don't think it works that way, ohh... Nevermind yee, you are correct... Wasn't paying attention to the "directly removing someone's resistances from them"

Haki's Resistance Negation however is via bypassing it, not directly remove it like forever or something

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I somewhat now understand the conversation about this

"Devil Fruit abilities (Buso Haki has been stated to be able to block devil fruit abilities,[57] seen when Doflamingo blocked Trafalgar Law's Amputate[58] and when Trafalgar Law stated that his Shambles ability would not work against those with superior Buso to him[59])
Heat Manipulation (Sanji states that Buso assists him in withstanding heat[60])
Resistance Negation (Users with superior Buso can resist the affects of Haki negating their resistances, shown with Gear 4th Luffy negating Doflamingo's negation of Luffy's resistance to physical attacks[37])"

One Piece res neg involves buso slop, nullifying devil fruit stuff, etc based on what's actually written out on the various profiles.
This, does not enable them to just negate any resistance ever, it's situational, circumstantial, and involves an energy system of sorts. Akainu wouldn't be able to just negate Superman's heat res for example, because the reason he has that resistance has absolutely nothing to do with the mechanics of how Haki can mitigate someone's resistance to begin with.

Context is key, mechanics and details matter, literally just use common sense and ask yourself how stuff works instead of just taking the title of an ability at face value.

What you brought up is only resistance to resistance negation's justification...

One Piece res neg involves buso slop, nullifying devil fruit stuff, etc based on what's actually written out on the various profiles.

This isn't true, Haki also resists heat from outside of devil fruits and Luffy says here without the usage of haki, he wouldn't have been effected by their attacks. (Since Luffy is also a haki user, he wasn't damaged/affected much (Resistance to Resistance Negation), which has constantly been shown and stated)

That should give you an idea of how haki somewhat works

So yee resistance neg of haki would work on Superman's heat res unless of course his resistance to heat is far higher than what haki negates

 

[Chariot190]

I somewhat now understand the conversation about this

You don't, this whole thing stems from lad arguing Akainu can nullify someone who's resistance is 15,000,000 degrees (magnitudes above the best feat), that also works on an entirely different form of mechanics than what Haki ***** with.

What you brought up is only resistance to resistance negation's justification...

What I brought up is what's actually on the profiles.

This isn't true,

It is according to the profiles? Like what do you want me to say, if it isn't the case, that shit ain't on me. Fix the profiles.

Haki also resists heat from outside of devil fruits

Ok? Didn't say otherwise? I said Haki is part of why?

and Luffy says here without the usage of haki, he wouldn't have been effected by their attacks. (Since Luffy is also a haki user, he wasn't damaged/affected much (Resistance to Resistance Negation), which has constantly been shown and stated)

Literally EVERY scan you gave just confirms what I said
It's all dependent on Haki, Bosu, or ability-esque stuff. The fact both involve Luffy's properties, ignoring it being from a fruit... But that's beside the point.

That should give you an idea of how haki somewhat works

It merely confirmed what I already figured was the case.

So yee resistance neg of haki would work on Superman's heat res unless of course his resistance to heat is far higher than what haki negates

Which means it wouldn't, at all, because his resistance is like, quadrillions of degrees? At worst, even.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

You don't, this whole thing stems from lad arguing Akainu can nullify someone who's resistance is 15,000,000 degrees (magnitudes above the best feat),

... What you mean I don't, I literally just read the whole page of the match (Well I did skip only most of your comments since they are soo long and dragged on )

I've already said, Akainu's resistance neg wouldn't work on heat that's way above the resistances that haki has been shown to negate

What I brought up is what's actually on the profiles.

It is according to the profiles? Like what do you want me to say, if it isn't the case, that shit ain't on me. Fix the profiles.

cherry picking one justification not linked to Res neg ability

What I brought up is literally on the profiles as well, giving you the full picture, there's nothing to fix

Ok? Didn't say otherwise? I said Haki is part of why?

you did say otherwise

"One Piece res neg involves buso slop, nullifying devil fruit stuff, etc based on what's actually written out on the various profiles.
This, does not enable them to just negate any resistance ever, it's situational, circumstantial, and involves an energy system of sorts"

implying Haki only works for devil fruits and energy systems like haki or something (Even tho the haki page literally reference a moment that isn't a devil fruit ability)

Literally EVERY scan you gave just confirms what I said
It's all dependent on Haki, Bosu, or ability-esque stuff. The fact both involve Luffy's properties, ignoring it being from a fruit... But that's beside the point.

Confirm how..? Of course it's dependent on Haki if that's the power that allows you to bypassing resistances, Sanji's flame also isn't from a fruit, that other stuff is to give you more of an idea with the Sanji stuff

Which means it wouldn't, at all, because his resistance is like, quadrillions of degrees? At worst, even.

I know... I know... I know, but if it wasn't quadrillions of degrees and was similar to lightning heat resistance, Haki would neg that resistance. That's what I'm saying

 

[Chariot190]

... What you mean I don't, I literally just read the whole page of the match (Well I did skip only most of your comments since they are soo long and dragged on )

Longest post I made that thread was like 1-2 paragraphs, if you're gonna say that at least make sure they were long.

I've already said, Akainu's resistance neg wouldn't work on heat that's way above the resistances that haki has been shown to negate

Tell them that not me brother

cherry picking one justification not linked to Res neg ability

What? It's literally the only stuff linked?

What I brought up is literally on the profiles as well, giving you the full picture, there's nothing to fix

No it isn't? The 3 profiles brought forth, Ace, Whitebeard, Akainu, had none of that, and the Haki page, which is what is listed (Ace doesn't even has res negation listed, it's an ability he has via the Haki page), solely talks about res negation

you did say otherwise

"One Piece res neg involves buso slop, nullifying devil fruit stuff, etc based on what's actually written out on the various profiles.
This, does not enable them to just negate any resistance ever, it's situational, circumstantial, and involves an energy system of sorts"

I said, Devil Fruits, and Haki/buso, etc. Not just Devil Fruits.

implying Haki only works for devil fruits and energy systems like haki or something (Even tho the haki page literally reference a moment that isn't a devil fruit ability)

The haki page states

• Elemental Intangibility Negation (Capable of negating the elemental transformation of characters,[1] allowing them to touch their true bodies and inflict pain,[1] even when they are fully transformed into their element[34])
• Resistance Negation (Haki can negate resistances of characters[54][16])
• Regeneration Negation (At least Mid, likely Mid-High; Haki users are capable of negating externally accelerated natural regeneration,[55] like the regeneration granted by the Tori Tori no Mi: Model Phoenix[56])
• Resistance to
  • Devil Fruit abilities (Buso Haki has been stated to be able to block devil fruit abilities,[57] seen when Doflamingo blocked Trafalgar Law's Amputate[58] and when Trafalgar Law stated that his Shambles ability would not work against those with superior Buso to him[59])
  • Heat Manipulation (Sanji states that Buso assists him in withstanding heat[60])
  • Resistance Negation (Users with superior Buso can resist the affects of Haki negating their resistances, shown with Gear 4th Luffy negating Doflamingo's negation of Luffy's resistance to physical attacks[37])
  • Elemental Intangibility Negation (Users with superior Buso resists the affects of Haki negating their elemental intangibility, shown with Shanks's buso negating Akainu's elemental intangibility while Marco and Vista's Buso couldn't[61][10])

Every single linked instance involves Devil Fruit's, Buso, Haki, etc. Not ONE instance that I can see otherwise. With it even elaborating Buso and Haki being like, the way.

Confirm how..? Of course it's dependent on Haki if that's the power that allows you to bypassing resistances

Yeah but the RESISTANCES themselves, from what I see, are based on Haki TOO, that or Devil Fruit's.

If the resistance negation involves essentially overpower or nullifying another's Haki/Buso/Devil Fruit with one's own, that doesn't exactly translate to everything ever.

The only example anyone has actually given was Whitebeard and Ace, which doesn't check out at all imo, and best case scenario, would be a negligible res neg anyway.

I know... I know... I know, but if it wasn't quadrillions of degrees and was similar to lightning heat resistance, Haki would neg that resistance. That's what I'm saying

Well, I'm glad you agree at least.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Longest post I made that thread was like 1-2 paragraphs, if you're gonna say that at least make sure they were long.

Nah look at the amount of texts, especially compared to everyone else

What? It's literally the only stuff linked?

• Resistance Negation (Haki can negate resistances of characters[54][16])

Literally has references, what you mean

No it isn't? The 3 profiles brought forth, Ace, Whitebeard, Akainu, had none of that, and the Haki page, which is what is listed (Ace doesn't even has res negation listed, it's an ability he has via the Haki page), solely talks about res negation

Yee the haki page... That there's nothing to fix there and I gave you the full picture of what it all means

I said, Devil Fruits, and Haki/buso, etc. Not just Devil Fruits.
The haki page states

• Elemental Intangibility Negation (Capable of negating the elemental transformation of characters,[1] allowing them to touch their true bodies and inflict pain,[1] even when they are fully transformed into their element[34])
• Resistance Negation (Haki can negate resistances of characters[54][16])
• Regeneration Negation (At least Mid, likely Mid-High; Haki users are capable of negating externally accelerated natural regeneration,[55] like the regeneration granted by the Tori Tori no Mi: Model Phoenix[56])
• Resistance to
  • Devil Fruit abilities (Buso Haki has been stated to be able to block devil fruit abilities,[57] seen when Doflamingo blocked Trafalgar Law's Amputate[58] and when Trafalgar Law stated that his Shambles ability would not work against those with superior Buso to him[59])
  • Heat Manipulation (Sanji states that Buso assists him in withstanding heat[60])
  • Resistance Negation (Users with superior Buso can resist the affects of Haki negating their resistances, shown with Gear 4th Luffy negating Doflamingo's negation of Luffy's resistance to physical attacks[37])
  • Elemental Intangibility Negation (Users with superior Buso resists the affects of Haki negating their elemental intangibility, shown with Shanks's buso negating Akainu's elemental intangibility while Marco and Vista's Buso couldn't[61][10])

Every single linked instance involves Devil Fruit's, Buso, Haki, etc. Not ONE instance that I can see otherwise. With it even elaborating Buso and Haki being like, the way.

Bro... Why do you keep saying buso/haki and buso, Haki... Buso = armament... I know which haki your referencing... Haki by itself does nothing externally as in all you need to say is buso which is 1 utilization of haki

When I say haki, I mean armament haki/buso haki

Every single linked instance involves Devil Fruit's, Buso, Haki, etc. Not ONE instance that I can see otherwise.

• Heat Manipulation (Sanji states that Buso assists him in withstanding heat[60])

Magic. Also devil fruit abilities are the same as any other ability... Fire from flame thrower and fire from devil fruit work and function the same. Haki doesn't affect devil fruits themselves, that's only what the Sea does. Haki overpowers abilities/resistances of others through basically fighting willpower

Yeah but the RESISTANCES themselves, from what I see, are based on Haki TOO, that or Devil Fruit's.

Well as I've already said, devil fruit abilities are the same as any other abilities, like... if here luffy's body has gained a resistance to poison without devil fruit, and I show a df user using haki and affecting him with poison, you can still say the same thing even then...

Haki affecting/blocking the fire from both luffy (Via acceleration) and Sanji which are created without devil fruits, proves Haki doesn't just resist neg only other devil fruit resistances is what I've been getting at

If the resistance negation involves essentially overpower or nullifying another's Haki/Buso/Devil Fruit with one's own, that doesn't exactly translate to everything ever.

Well luffy's heat resistance isn't via a df resistance or haki resistance... Same for sanji, so the heat of Like doffy's threads or kizaru's lasers shouldn't be able to affect them unless resistant neg via haki

There's probably more ways I can correlate resistances without haki or df's to then haki users still affecting them via haki but I can't fully think right now but yee

 

[Chariot190]

Literally has references, what you mean

Which I asked for because I couldn't find. How about just link the scans on the profile, like citations fine but both scans and citations should be listed

Yee the haki page... That there's nothing to fix there and I gave you the full picture of what it all means

Add scans. Explain the mechanics of it. Show examples beyond apparently a single two sources in the whole manga, of which neither of the sources presented included.

Bro... Why do you keep saying buso/haki and buso, Haki... Buso = armament... I know which haki your referencing... Haki by itself does nothing externally as in all you need to say is buso which is 1 utilization of haki

Because that's how the page is written. The Haki page presents resistance negation as being solely a buso thing, and the mechanics in what it's shown to have nullified via overpowering one's own? Like even if that isn't the case, that IS how it's worded.

When I say haki, I mean armament haki/buso haki

I'm just quoting the page.

Magic.

Yes that do be the page I quoted.

Also devil fruit abilities are the same as any other ability...

Since when? I'm not talking functionality.

Fire from flame thrower and fire from devil fruit work and function the same.

We're not talking about functionality but mechanics. How, is something utilized.

Like you wouldn't say mind hax res would negate all forms of mind hax if the res is shown against a specified manner of it only, like say biological changes such as Poison Ivy.

Haki doesn't affect devil fruits themselves,

• Elemental Intangibility Negation (Capable of negating the elemental transformation of characters,[1] allowing them to touch their true bodies and inflict pain,[1] even when they are fully transformed into their element[34])

and

"Buso Haki has been stated to be able to block devil fruit abilities,"

Is what it says. This is the reasoning for why they can negate elemental intangibility and block devil fruit's, this is in the buso section of Haki.

Nobody is saying anything about it being permanent, why even bring it up? The page itself states they can negate it, whether or not it removes the power is a nonfactor to both this discussion and the page itself.

that's only what the Sea does. Haki overpowers abilities/resistances of others through basically fighting willpower

That isn't how it's explained anywhere. That is not the reason given for why Haki does what it does in a single description of res neg. You're proving why the pages need to be detailed better.

Well as I've already said, devil fruit abilities are the same as any other abilities, like... if here luffy's body has gained a resistance to poison without devil fruit, and I show a df user using haki and affecting him with poison, you can still say the same thing even then...

Why? What's the mechanics, how did Luffy gain his resistance? Is his resistance something that Haki even works with?

Just saying it isn't good enough, it needs to be explained and detailed precisely.

Like could Haki negate someone's resistance to conceptual soul destruction granted by the blessing of a higher dimensional God? Why would we assume that? The reason they have that is completely different mechanically from what's Haki been shown to mitigate.

Haki affecting/blocking the fire from both luffy (Via acceleration) and Sanji which are created without devil fruits, proves Haki doesn't just resist neg only other devil fruit resistances is what I've been getting at

I didn't say that was the case? I said it was one of. I also said it can negate resistances based on various energy systems and what not, such as how Sanji has heat res due to his buso, no?

You're focusing on like, half the sentece.

Well luffy's heat resistance isn't via a df resistance or haki resistance...

Isn't it because he's rubber due to the fruit?
Also what he's literally saying ow?

Same for sanji, so the heat of Like doffy's threads or kizaru's lasers shouldn't be able to affect them unless resistant neg via haki

What exactly am I looking at here? Sanji has heat res (mind you the profile doesn't explain why, and it's listed as fire not heat but handwaving that), Sanji isn't shown being burned in any of those examples?

That's also ignoring they could just like, be hotter than their own resistance as to why they got harmed, both those attacks have dangerous properties beyond just heat too for why they could still be dangerous?

There's probably more ways I can correlate resistances without haki or df's to then haki users still affecting them via haki but I can't fully think right now but yee

I appreciate it but....
The pages still misleading as **** eevn if I'm to take your word for this and a LOT of these explanations, while vague assuming their true to how presented aren't on the pages

Like can I at the very least get you to add the scans to the pages?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I appreciate it but....
The pages still misleading as **** eevn if I'm to take your word for this and a LOT of these explanations, while vague assuming their true to how presented aren't on the pages

Like can I at the very least get you to add the scans to the pages?

You don't think I know that? This isn't just only a haki page thing but also many different op profiles, it's just too much to deal with fr... Especially with how strict the verse is, everything moves slow af, Haki page should've been revised many times already... But gg, op threads get derailed and with repeated arguments all the time or just no one wants to engage in it

• Elemental Intangibility Negation (Capable of negating the elemental transformation of characters,[1] allowing them to touch their true bodies and inflict pain,[1] even when they are fully transformed into their element[34])

and

"Buso Haki has been stated to be able to block devil fruit abilities,"

Is what it says. This is the reasoning for why they can negate elemental intangibility and block devil fruit's, this is in the buso section of Haki.

Nobody is saying anything about it being permanent, why even bring it up? The page itself states they can negate it, whether or not it removes the power is a nonfactor to both this discussion and the page itself.

I didn't brought up anything permanent? Negating here means bypass when they are elementally transformed

"Buso Haki has been stated to be able to block devil fruit abilities," literally says devil fruit abilities not devil fruits

Add scans. Explain the mechanics of it. Show examples beyond apparently a single two sources in the whole manga, of which neither of the sources presented included.

Well... scans, I didn't add because it would be random af if I added scans only to these specific ones while everything else is with references but I did explain the mechanics, of course most of the other stuff is outdated/old as well and many haki threads have just died

That isn't how it's explained anywhere. That is not the reason given for why Haki does what it does in a single description of res neg. You're proving why the pages need to be detailed better.

No shit, that's why I'm explaining it here with scans... It does explain it here on the most out dated op page

Why? What's the mechanics, how did Luffy gain his resistance? Is his resistance something that Haki even works with?

Enel used his lightning heat through gold and luffy only acts like his hand is placed on a stove, yes haki would work on his resistance... Would have no reason no to

While devil fruits themselves are quite unknown, you can recreate devil fruit abilities through science alone,


Yee I'm donwjdm hmm ms djinn done explaining, asking way too many questions, bye me no have tim, me tired

I didn't say that was the case? I said it was one of. I also said it can negate resistances based on various energy systems and what not, such as how Sanji has heat res due to his buso, no?

You're focusing on like, half the sentece.

no sanji does not have heat resistance because of buso... Sanji does not have haki pre timeskip, I feel like you aren't fully understanding what I'm saying

Isn't it because he's rubber due to the fruit?
Also what he's literally saying ow?

not how that works, saying just ow to lightning heat means he has a resistance... He doesn't have immunity to heat... Like what?

What exactly am I looking at here? Sanji has heat res (mind you the profile doesn't explain why, and it's listed as fire not heat but handwaving that), Sanji isn't shown being burned in any of those examples?

Sanji does not have haki pre timeskip

Technique that makes his feet burn in flames... That heat he can withstand like it's nothing

That's also ignoring they could just like, be hotter than their own resistance as to why they got harmed, both those attacks have dangerous properties beyond just heat too for why they could still be dangerous?

... Bro I didn't know you've never seen op... I can maybe explain later

Bye, me tired for now

 

[Chariot190]

You don't think I know that? This isn't just only a haki page thing but also many different op profiles, it's just too much to deal with fr... Especially with how strict the verse is, everything moves slow af, Haki page should've been revised many times already... But gg, op threads get derailed and with repeated arguments all the time or just no one wants to engage in it

Then why say nothing needs fixing? You just agreed with me

I didn't brought up anything permanent? Negating here means bypass when they are elementally transformed

Yeah I got that? That's literally what I said? But you said Haki doesn't interact with the DF itself while bringing up perm effects based on the scan given?

"Buso Haki has been stated to be able to block devil fruit abilities," literally says devil fruit abilities not devil fruits

Yeah? Are you really arguing semantics when it was obvious what I meant? Straight uop deleting the ability was never in contention.

Well... scans, I didn't add because it would be random af if I added scans only to these specific ones while everything else is with references but I did explain the mechanics, of course most of the other stuff is outdated/old as well and many haki threads have just died

Then how is this my fault. The pages need to be updated.
The mechanics LEGIT aren't explained, it just says "Has resistance negation" with the resistances to it elaborating on stuff apparently unrelated based on the arguments here.

No shit, that's why I'm explaining it here with scans...

It needs to be on the page my dude

It does explain it here on the most out dated op page

"All users of the Devil Fruit, no matter the species or object they are, are rendered unable to swim, and thus become useless and fatigued when deeply submerged in a body of water. They can even become immobilized by merely being waist-deep in water. For some unknown reason, a Devil Fruit user is also weak and lose their power if they come into contact with "Seastone", which can only be extracted from Wano Country.

Devil Fruit users in general may find their abilities to be useless if they have not taken the time to hone their physical abilities while also developing on their Devil Fruit abilities.

All Devil Fruit users are susceptible to attacks from Busoshoku Haki wielders as it cancels out the powers of the fruit and forces them into their original state, but does not nullify their powers throughout their body unlike Seastone."

This? That's literally what I've been saying.

Enel used his lightning heat through gold and luffy only acts like his hand is placed on a stove,

Ok so where is that getting negated?

Also, running the math, assuming a 2m gold ball and lightning temp of about 30,000 degrees. Assuming a direct flow to the ball, factoring in the heat transfer stuff and yadda yadda, it would take around 0.8 seconds for the gold ball to reach temps of around 100c, but he did melt it so.... The gold ball was heated up to 1064c (melting point of gold), but less than 2856 (boiling point). When Luffy made contact with it, it had already began to rapidly cool, with him throwing a punch and the gold ball cooling and solidifying before he can retract his arm. So... Yeah it was hot, but that did rapidly cool and probably ain't as hot as you're thinking it was.

yes haki would work on his resistance... Would have no reason no to

Ok? But isn't his resistance a byproduct of of the gum gum? Also is there any example of Luffy's heat res explicitly being nullified? There's a very real possibility some stuff is just hotter.

While devil fruits themselves are quite unknown, you can recreate devil fruit abilities through science alone,

That's kinda affirming it though? Only Zoan's can be replicated, and even if the others could be, they might not even awaken? There's obviously a difference.

Yee I'm donwjdm hmm ms djinn done explaining, asking way too many questions, bye me no have tim, me tired

Well yeah the profiles kind of don't do a good job explaining, or even citing half the stuff being brought up.

no sanji does not have heat resistance because of buso...

• Heat Manipulation (Sanji states that Buso assists him in withstanding heat[60])

What's this then?

Sanji does not have haki pre timeskip, I feel like you aren't fully understanding what I'm saying

And has his innate resistance EVER actually been negated?

not how that works, saying just ow to lightning heat means he has a resistance... He doesn't have immunity to heat... Like what?

Actually being pure rubber is a decent start, rubber is a good insulator. Nobody said immunity? Why the strawman? I said isn't the fact he has resistance at all due to the fruit?

Technique that makes his feet burn in flames... That heat he can withstand like it's nothing

That didn't comment on anything i said. I asked if Sanji ever had that resistance negated explicitly. The scan you gave he actually seems completely fine touching the heated thread?

... Bro I didn't know you've never seen op... I can maybe explain later

I've seen up to Whitebeard, but it's been awhile.

Bye, me tired for now

gn.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Then why say nothing needs fixing? You just agreed with me

As in everything I'm saying is already in the haki page, it being bad doesn't mean it's broken

Yeah I got that? That's literally what I said? But you said Haki doesn't interact with the DF itself while bringing up perm effects based on the scan given?

No perm effect..? Yee Haki don't interact with df themselves, only the power they produce, the sea temporarily weaken/remove your usage of using your power kinda like how hamon won't work if someone is blocking your breathing

Yeah? Are you really arguing semantics when it was obvious what I meant? Straight uop deleting the ability was never in contention.

I fr don't know what you meant... At times I think you are talking only about resistance other times about something else which has nothing to do with that but I'm trying to tie it into that still

It needs to be on the page my dude

Watch OP and become knowledgeable, and do it yourself , you don't have a problem typing alot

"All users of the Devil Fruit, no matter the species or object they are, are rendered unable to swim, and thus become useless and fatigued when deeply submerged in a body of water. They can even become immobilized by merely being waist-deep in water. For some unknown reason, a Devil Fruit user is also weak and lose their power if they come into contact with "Seastone", which can only be extracted from Wano Country.

Devil Fruit users in general may find their abilities to be useless if they have not taken the time to hone their physical abilities while also developing on their Devil Fruit abilities.

All Devil Fruit users are susceptible to attacks from Busoshoku Haki wielders as it cancels out the powers of the fruit and forces them into their original state, but does not nullify their powers throughout their body unlike Seastone."

This? That's literally what I've been saying.

Bro what... No you haven't, that's what I said

Ok so where is that getting negated?

Also, running the math, assuming a 2m gold ball and lightning temp of about 30,000 degrees. Assuming a direct flow to the ball, factoring in the heat transfer stuff and yadda yadda, it would take around 0.8 seconds for the gold ball to reach temps of around 100c, but he did melt it so.... The gold ball was heated up to 1064c (melting point of gold), but less than 2856 (boiling point). When Luffy made contact with it, it had already began to rapidly cool, with him throwing a punch and the gold ball cooling and solidifying before he can retract his arm. So... Yeah it was hot, but that did rapidly cool and probably ain't as hot as you're thinking it was.

Ok? But isn't his resistance a byproduct of of the gum gum? Also is there any example of Luffy's heat res explicitly being nullified? There's a very real possibility some stuff is just hotter.

ok but...

And Luffy literally uses his golden ball on this here

Where is it getting negated? Well here is probably one, which Doffy had no problems with but had problems with Luffy's fire (Luffy also has stronger arm haki than sanji)

That's kinda affirming it though? Only Zoan's can be replicated, and even if the others could be, they might not even awaken? There's obviously a difference.

Not a difference in the abilities tho, the abilities function same as any other... As I've said, laser from light fruit is the same as laser from technology, crocodile with the sand fruit can control other sand not produced by his fruit

Well yeah the profiles kind of don't do a good job explaining, or even citing half the stuff being brought up.

Magic

• Heat Manipulation (Sanji states that Buso assists him in withstanding heat[60])

What's this then?

That is only for his ifrit jambe, where he needs to use haki because of it's heat being too high

覇気と超高熱のデュオ
魔神風脚

血統因子操作の影響で発現した外骨格の強度を活かし、鍛えた筋力やスピードと武装色の覇気を重ね合わせた大技。〝悪魔風脚〟以上の超高熱の青白い炎が特徴で、現時点のサンジの足技の集大成だ。

Duo of Haki and ultra-high heat
Ifrit Jambe

This is a great technique that combines the strength of the exoskeleton developed through the manipulation of bloodline factors with the strength and speed of the muscles he has trained and the Haki of the color of his armament. It is characterized by a super-hot bluish-white flame that is even hotter than the “Diable Jambe,” and is the culmination of Sanji's current leg techniques.

You can basically see when he adds haki, he turns up the heat of his foot and turns it into white blue

And has his innate resistance EVER actually been negated?

Yee, but you could also just say... Can't that just be hotter? ... So like wtf, what I showed above tho should be fine

Actually being pure rubber is a decent start, rubber is a good insulator. Nobody said immunity? Why the strawman? I said isn't the fact he has resistance at all due to the fruit?

Luffy isn't made out of pure rubber... They are still flesh and bones, they just have the properties of rubber

I've seen up to Whitebeard, but it's been awhile.

Mmm I guess yee you wouldn't have known if sanji has haki or not pre timeskip