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Ren Fuji vs Edmond Dantès
- Thread starter Promestein
- Start date
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.....Holy shit that's a cool match...
But nah
But nah
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The above gave me the idea that he had to chip Ren out with multiple hits, he can go through his DEF like butter?
And.. sorta lost with the advantage bit
Current Ren AP - City+ | Dante AP- City
Current Ren Dura - City+ to Mtn | Dante Dura- Mtn
Full Heal + Buffs questionable since neckslice is a 1-shot, and Ren always aims for it. Wether he hits or not is debatable, but I don't think it'd be possible to avoid it connecting forever. Then there is the question of wether the hits that don't connect with the neck actually "kill" Avenger for this to activate
Ren has much better regen, is there anything to deal with that?
You are right about the range though, how significant do you think it'd be? Seems like it'd be really big since this is speed absolutely equalized. Is it long enough that he'd just be able to kite Ren and troll him till he keels over?
And.. sorta lost with the advantage bit
Current Ren AP - City+ | Dante AP- City
Current Ren Dura - City+ to Mtn | Dante Dura- Mtn
Full Heal + Buffs questionable since neckslice is a 1-shot, and Ren always aims for it. Wether he hits or not is debatable, but I don't think it'd be possible to avoid it connecting forever. Then there is the question of wether the hits that don't connect with the neck actually "kill" Avenger for this to activate
Ren has much better regen, is there anything to deal with that?
You are right about the range though, how significant do you think it'd be? Seems like it'd be really big since this is speed absolutely equalized. Is it long enough that he'd just be able to kite Ren and troll him till he keels over?
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Probably not quite like butter
But MCM burned away Roa's magical barriers without much difficulty, so it would't take too many hits before the soul armour is gone, and all the while it's weakening and protecting him less and less.
MCM burns the soul and the only thing protecting Ren's soul is the soul armour so I'll let you work out how useful Ren's regen will be.
I meant Ren's AP - Edmond's Dura advantage, meaning that ren's attacks will not do as much damage as normal. Combine that with Wait & Hope and he'll come back from anything except the neck slice.
About avoiding forever - you'd be surprised. The neck is a very small target overall, and if Dante works out what Ren's aiming for, he'd be able to block or dodge even better.
And while the range advantage is not a game breaker, yes, it does mean Dante can basically play keep away and just keep blasting.
But MCM burned away Roa's magical barriers without much difficulty, so it would't take too many hits before the soul armour is gone, and all the while it's weakening and protecting him less and less.
MCM burns the soul and the only thing protecting Ren's soul is the soul armour so I'll let you work out how useful Ren's regen will be.
I meant Ren's AP - Edmond's Dura advantage, meaning that ren's attacks will not do as much damage as normal. Combine that with Wait & Hope and he'll come back from anything except the neck slice.
About avoiding forever - you'd be surprised. The neck is a very small target overall, and if Dante works out what Ren's aiming for, he'd be able to block or dodge even better.
And while the range advantage is not a game breaker, yes, it does mean Dante can basically play keep away and just keep blasting.
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Welp, Ren gets trolled no matter what. Can only take one win via unrestricted.
I think the possibility of a neckslice thrown somewhere in there is very real, so it's not 100% sealed or one-sided, but-
Ascended Komaeda wins
I think the possibility of a neckslice thrown somewhere in there is very real, so it's not 100% sealed or one-sided, but-
Ascended Komaeda wins
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i mean, Dantes can also make anyone who ever felt the slightest bit of hatred for someone else attack them in blind fury.
if, by any chance, we were to use redhead hadou god ren (just the dies irae version), what are the odds he wouldnt implode via sakurai, shirou and machina turning on him from the inside out?
if, by any chance, we were to use redhead hadou god ren (just the dies irae version), what are the odds he wouldnt implode via sakurai, shirou and machina turning on him from the inside out?
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^Any version of Hadou God Ren would passively defeat Edgemond xD
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ok, how would that work? all the boasting i have seen regarding the powerlevels of hadou gods i saw in this page was throughly disproven after reading the VN myself. nothing from ren in that novel makes me believe he could passively beat any noteworthy servantSage God Slayer said:
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please tell me how a time stop would passively beat characters that can passively get past that with low level magic resistance, as we have seen saber and archer do and maybe you will have something there
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read it
then read the VN
found most of that page to be bullshit
please provide content from the novel itself that has been translated
then read the VN
found most of that page to be bullshit
please provide content from the novel itself that has been translated
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just as an example
how am i supposed to believe that the blood of a god weighs more than the planet when marie is bleeding after eleonore backhanding her and the planet being just fine
same for all the tenma and the gods fighting in japan and the planet being fine
how am i supposed to believe that the blood of a god weighs more than the planet when marie is bleeding after eleonore backhanding her and the planet being just fine
same for all the tenma and the gods fighting in japan and the planet being fine
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"same for all the tenma and the gods fighting in japan and the planet being fine"
I introduce you to the concept of AoE.
I introduce you to the concept of AoE.
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Can you stop downplaying Dies Irae already? Mr. Longinus only killed 8 Swastika's?
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Gargoyle One said:
?
how can reinhard kill swastikas and why would he do it in the first place?
and i am not downplaying. i am merely basing my answers off the content of the original novel and considering it more trustworthy than random translations and saysos of fanboys
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... Kinda ignoring the fact that Mercurius created a Supernovae, created a black hole out of all the stars in the cosmos and basically causing it to implode via making the goddamn cosmos into an elementary particle and sending it into the past.Embracetophats said:
What on earth about all of this comes across as city level to you?
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... Kinda ignoring the fact that Mercurius created a Supernovae, created a black hole out of all the stars in the cosmos and basically causing it to implode via making the goddamn cosmos into an elementary particle and sending it into the past.
What on earth about all of this comes across as city level to you?
when did i say that Merc is only city level?
though, if you want to bring that up, how strong would a supernova originating from a palm sized star be? or a black hole that somehow fails to catch beatrice, which is lightning?
What on earth about all of this comes across as city level to you?
when did i say that Merc is only city level?
though, if you want to bring that up, how strong would a supernova originating from a palm sized star be? or a black hole that somehow fails to catch beatrice, which is lightning?
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when did i say that Merc is only city level?Embracetophats said:
though, if you want to bring that up, how strong would a supernova originating from a palm sized star be? or a black hole that somehow fails to catch beatrice, which is lightning?
By implying that Hadou Gods can be beaten by Servants, you are also implying that Mercurius is capable of being beaten by one.
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there you go again, distorting my words
all i said is that i see no evidence that they can passively beat a servant, as in, they havent shown me anything that makes me believe that they can kill a servant just by standing there
all i said is that i see no evidence that they can passively beat a servant, as in, they havent shown me anything that makes me believe that they can kill a servant just by standing there
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... Ignoring Snake's Dura Led Sex Lex was drawing in galaxies at noticeable speeds. Which, you know, """""lightning""""" Beatrice also got out of. Similarly, Beatrice at no point got out of Disce Libens. For having played the game, you sure are making shit up.
Similarly, you got supernovae getting beat back by Dora Railway Gun shots, and WWII level artillery being effective against multiversal Gods. Surely you are not downplaying a bit ******* way too hard?
EDIT: How about Yatou freezing Habaki by giving him a dirty look? Does that look passive enough? Or how Hajun was eroding the borders of Edo without even noticing the Yatsukahagi?
Similarly, you got supernovae getting beat back by Dora Railway Gun shots, and WWII level artillery being effective against multiversal Gods. Surely you are not downplaying a bit ******* way too hard?
EDIT: How about Yatou freezing Habaki by giving him a dirty look? Does that look passive enough? Or how Hajun was eroding the borders of Edo without even noticing the Yatsukahagi?
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This. That is literally what you are saying. You CANNOT, and I repeat, cannot have Ren as a Hadou God being capable of being beaten by Servants without implying that Mercurius can also be defeated. In fact, you are basically saying that they can defeat all of the Hadou Gods by virtue of this.Embracetophats said:
Why? Because Ren can fight with Mercurius and Reinhard. Meaning that he is roughly on par with them in power. So by saying that he can be defeated by a Servant, you are also implying that the other two can be beaten as well.
And I would really not apply conventional physics in a fight that takes place in "nowhere" where the laws of physics don't even exist or apply. Hell, you have a goddamn railway tank being capable of STOPPING a Supernovae. Why? Because of feelings and divinity.
You have Reinhard's goddamn artillery being capable of dealing as much damage as Snake's Supernovae to Ren. You have a Grand Cross extending across the freakin' multiverse.
So. Again. How in the bloody hell did you come to the conclusion that, Ren, at his strongest, is capable of being beaten by a Servant? It doesn't even make sense.
So I am really questioning if you have actually read the visual novel and not just being a contrarian for the sake of it.
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so, Reinhard and Merc are standing on opposite sides, he fires the black hole first straight at Rein and his forces, then he sends out of beatrice and the tubal cains. and they reach him. how exactly do you manage to be within the effective range of a black hole and not get sucked in?
"Similarly, you got supernovae getting beat back by Dora Railway Gun shots"
you sure those werent just her flames there? off the top of my head, i dont recall the actual artillery being mentioned
"multiversal Gods"
i dont think i will ever understand how people confuse the notion of infinite universes with limitless possibilities with 1 universe that is stated time and time again to loop back around itself and always be the same, every time
1 VS infinite. you can only have 1 here and it seems like the VN wants to shove the 1 down my throat at every chance it gets
"Similarly, you got supernovae getting beat back by Dora Railway Gun shots"
you sure those werent just her flames there? off the top of my head, i dont recall the actual artillery being mentioned
"multiversal Gods"
i dont think i will ever understand how people confuse the notion of infinite universes with limitless possibilities with 1 universe that is stated time and time again to loop back around itself and always be the same, every time
1 VS infinite. you can only have 1 here and it seems like the VN wants to shove the 1 down my throat at every chance it gets
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So. Again. How in the bloody hell did you come to the conclusion that, Ren, at his strongest, is capable of being beaten by a Servant? It doesn't even make sense.
So I am really questioning if you have actually read the visual novel and not just being a contrarian for the sake of it.
oh, but i never said that it is going to be a servant that would beat him.
all i said was that dantes could go "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" at the LDO members inside of him with his hatred power and they would do the job.
i mean, if calling out their name is enough for them to bail on reinhard, imagine what an actual ability from a descended higher dimensional being would do
So I am really questioning if you have actually read the visual novel and not just being a contrarian for the sake of it.
oh, but i never said that it is going to be a servant that would beat him.
all i said was that dantes could go "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" at the LDO members inside of him with his hatred power and they would do the job.
i mean, if calling out their name is enough for them to bail on reinhard, imagine what an actual ability from a descended higher dimensional being would do
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"Similarly, you got supernovae getting beat back by Dora Railway Gun shots"
you sure those werent just her flames there? off the top of my head, i dont recall the actual artillery being mentioned
ok, yeah, just checked. it doesnt mention her artillery at al, just "hellfire". i will then believe that those come from her pyrokinesis then
you sure those werent just her flames there? off the top of my head, i dont recall the actual artillery being mentioned
ok, yeah, just checked. it doesnt mention her artillery at al, just "hellfire". i will then believe that those come from her pyrokinesis then
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Eh no, Dura Led Sex Lex is a Great Attractor, not a black hole. Big damn difference.
Musspelheimr Laevateinn IS a Dora Railway Gun shot. And that's what holds Sequere Naturam back. Hellfire is a figure of speech, because her cannon also contains flames. But her Briah (Which was boosted and used there) specifically fires her cannon's shells. You are ignoring context just to downplay, buddy.
And I will never understand people who think they understand more about a setting's cosmology by playing a game where it wasn't developed yet. KKK specifically states that Snake's world was a multiverse, with defined past, present and future. Eternal Recurrence is just how this multiverse works, being reset each time Snake is near death because that's the point he Atziluths. That's why he's a living paradox, his death is his birth. And frankly, you didn't pay attention AT ALL. Given Mitsudomoe (which was written after KKK) specifically references the multiverse as part of Aurea Mediocritas, while the translation downplayed Omnia Fert Aetas.
Musspelheimr Laevateinn IS a Dora Railway Gun shot. And that's what holds Sequere Naturam back. Hellfire is a figure of speech, because her cannon also contains flames. But her Briah (Which was boosted and used there) specifically fires her cannon's shells. You are ignoring context just to downplay, buddy.
And I will never understand people who think they understand more about a setting's cosmology by playing a game where it wasn't developed yet. KKK specifically states that Snake's world was a multiverse, with defined past, present and future. Eternal Recurrence is just how this multiverse works, being reset each time Snake is near death because that's the point he Atziluths. That's why he's a living paradox, his death is his birth. And frankly, you didn't pay attention AT ALL. Given Mitsudomoe (which was written after KKK) specifically references the multiverse as part of Aurea Mediocritas, while the translation downplayed Omnia Fert Aetas.
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oh, but i never said that it is going to be a servant that would beat him.Embracetophats said:
all i said was that dantes could go "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" at the LDO members inside of him with his hatred power and they would do the job.
i mean, if calling out their name is enough for them to bail on reinhard, imagine what an actual ability from a descended higher dimensional being would do
So, uh, going to completely ignore context then. Like, I don't know, Shirou being the one making it possible because he is Ren's Apoptosis?
As for the multiverse thing:
Timelines
Multiverse
Technically, there was supposed to be one more mention of multiverse, but the TLers felt that didn't flow well, so it was changed to universe/cosmos.
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oh, but i never said that it is going to be a servant that would beat him.Embracetophats said:
all i said was that dantes could go "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" at the LDO members inside of him with his hatred power and they would do the job.
i mean, if calling out their name is enough for them to bail on reinhard, imagine what an actual ability from a descended higher dimensional being would do
I'd tell you to play KKK, but again I'd be doing you a favour cause this ability of Shirou is explained just about enough in Mitsudmomoe for you to be so blatantly downplaying. His "Taikyoku" lets him destroy supernatural phenomena and even Godhood, which allowed him to disrupt the binding of the Shuradou.
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ok, then enlighten me. i was under the impression that "great attractor" was a synonym for black hole, especially with Merc going with the increasingly large cosmic constructs and all that.
you sure it is the railway shot?i know it is supposedly "inside" the canon, but once it just ended up being her setting the landscape on fire and throwing fire spears at Ren, i didnt think it would be accurate since that is now how a canon firing works. "enhanced pyrokinesis" seems to fit the situation much better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kajiri_Kamui_Kagura
unless regular wikipedia has been lying to me, KKK was released in 2011, while the final part of DI, Amantes Amares was in 2012, so it doesnt even cover the excuse of later down the timeline getting retconned. and no, just saying "it is a multiverse" in another instalment while the actual instalment that takes place in Merc's universe totally contradicts the very notion of the multiverse doesnt make it right.
here is an analogy. you live in WW2, later, you read a document written by someone else detailing events that you were present for that it was totally different. why should you believe the document over your 1st hand experience?
you sure it is the railway shot?i know it is supposedly "inside" the canon, but once it just ended up being her setting the landscape on fire and throwing fire spears at Ren, i didnt think it would be accurate since that is now how a canon firing works. "enhanced pyrokinesis" seems to fit the situation much better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kajiri_Kamui_Kagura
unless regular wikipedia has been lying to me, KKK was released in 2011, while the final part of DI, Amantes Amares was in 2012, so it doesnt even cover the excuse of later down the timeline getting retconned. and no, just saying "it is a multiverse" in another instalment while the actual instalment that takes place in Merc's universe totally contradicts the very notion of the multiverse doesnt make it right.
here is an analogy. you live in WW2, later, you read a document written by someone else detailing events that you were present for that it was totally different. why should you believe the document over your 1st hand experience?
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Now, could we get back to the topic? Or at least you should create a separate thread for it. Hell, jump into the Masadaverse discussion instead of here.
... Yes, I just realised this was a VS thread.
... Yes, I just realised this was a VS thread.
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I'd tell you to play KKK, but again I'd be doing you a favour cause this ability of Shirou is explained just about enough in Mitsudmomoe for you to be so blatantly downplaying. His "Taikyoku" lets him destroy supernatural phenomena and even Godhood, which allowed him to disrupt the binding of the Shuradou.Trexalfa29 said:
A- you can say that it is implied, but not confirmed in DI that was the specific reason why it happened.
and again, i wasnt even requiring them to break away from Ren, just being there inside him would be good enough
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A Great Attractor is not a black hole. It is just a phenomenon that draws in galaxies towards itself.
"That's not how a cannon firing in real life works". You think that excuse is going to fly? You cannot warp reality in real life, you cannot make shadows come to life, you cannot suck and destroys souls, and you of course cannot paint over the universe with your desire. Why the hell am I supposed to discard something portrayed in the game as innacurate cause muh physics?
You cannot refute thing right, even. Yes KKK was released in 2011 and Amantes Amentes was released in 2012, that is EXACTLY my point. Mitsudomoe is an Amantes Amentes addition that was written later than KKK, hence why it is a gigantic ball of fanservice regarding that game. And that one game makes it a point to say that Shinza from NEET onwards IS a multiverse. It was previously a single universe, with no defined past, present and future. After Satanel passed away and Snake took the Throne the multiverse began to exist. And this is said in KKK during sequence which explain the setting's overarching lore. And now you are basically just denying the fact that multiverse is referenced in Dies irae numerous times.
I'm just going to ignore your last part cause both you and I know it is ridiculous. The setting getting developed later on and adding onto previous material is not a conflicting account. Deal with it.
EDIT: It is not implied, but RIGHT AWAY STATED. The text says Shirou has ******* Godhood destroying bullets for God's sake. You realize you are just twisting context and outright lying, aren't you?
"That's not how a cannon firing in real life works". You think that excuse is going to fly? You cannot warp reality in real life, you cannot make shadows come to life, you cannot suck and destroys souls, and you of course cannot paint over the universe with your desire. Why the hell am I supposed to discard something portrayed in the game as innacurate cause muh physics?
You cannot refute thing right, even. Yes KKK was released in 2011 and Amantes Amentes was released in 2012, that is EXACTLY my point. Mitsudomoe is an Amantes Amentes addition that was written later than KKK, hence why it is a gigantic ball of fanservice regarding that game. And that one game makes it a point to say that Shinza from NEET onwards IS a multiverse. It was previously a single universe, with no defined past, present and future. After Satanel passed away and Snake took the Throne the multiverse began to exist. And this is said in KKK during sequence which explain the setting's overarching lore. And now you are basically just denying the fact that multiverse is referenced in Dies irae numerous times.
I'm just going to ignore your last part cause both you and I know it is ridiculous. The setting getting developed later on and adding onto previous material is not a conflicting account. Deal with it.
EDIT: It is not implied, but RIGHT AWAY STATED. The text says Shirou has ******* Godhood destroying bullets for God's sake. You realize you are just twisting context and outright lying, aren't you?
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o completely ignore context then. Like, I don't know, Shirou being the one making it possible because he is Ren's Apoptosis?
As for the multiverse thing:
Timelines
Multiverse
Technically, there was supposed to be one more mention of multiverse, but the TLers felt that didn't flow well, so it was changed to universe/cosmos.
so here is a shocker for you. if a VN, which are know for their excessively flowery language, just happen to drop a random paragraph or isolated term out of the blue, i ghoose to ignore it in favor of the veritable pile of evidence on the opposite side of the argument. what is it that people call this again? "occam's razor" or something?
anyway, the VN spends nearly 1 month worth of reading material establishing that there is only a singular universe that loops around itself, so when such things get dropped out of the blue, i choose to believe the argument with the most overwhelming ammount of evidence, which includes the conversations during the first Rea route ending, spoken by 2 hadou gods and confirmed by the other side of the conversation, which is also a god. i do this for all VN and LN content
As for the multiverse thing:
Timelines
Multiverse
Technically, there was supposed to be one more mention of multiverse, but the TLers felt that didn't flow well, so it was changed to universe/cosmos.
so here is a shocker for you. if a VN, which are know for their excessively flowery language, just happen to drop a random paragraph or isolated term out of the blue, i ghoose to ignore it in favor of the veritable pile of evidence on the opposite side of the argument. what is it that people call this again? "occam's razor" or something?
anyway, the VN spends nearly 1 month worth of reading material establishing that there is only a singular universe that loops around itself, so when such things get dropped out of the blue, i choose to believe the argument with the most overwhelming ammount of evidence, which includes the conversations during the first Rea route ending, spoken by 2 hadou gods and confirmed by the other side of the conversation, which is also a god. i do this for all VN and LN content
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i did, no one has replied it for 2 hoursEvilMegaCookie said:Now, could we get back to the topic? Or at least you should create a separate thread for it. Hell, jump into the Masadaverse discussion instead of here.
... Yes, I just realised this was a VS thread.
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