Ren Amamiya (Persona) vs Gilgamesh (Fate)

[KnightOfSunlight]

Again, Wouldn't Ea be Almighty under equalization?

In which case Gil pulls Ea and GG.

 

[Eganergo]

If it doesn't scale to smt I'm 100% sure resistance neg is limited to its best feat so it can't null gils resistances

Reason?

You can be lv1 and can still bypass the highest lv boss resistance and barrier with almighty.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Ea wouldn't be physical anyway

None of the elements Joker can null would have Ea fall under then so he gets killed by it anyway

Also even if Joker isn't divine quite a few of his personas would count

 

[Eganergo]

Ea wouldn't be physical anyway

None of the elements Joker can null would have Ea fall under then so he gets killed by it anyway

Also even if Joker isn't divine quite a few of his personas would count

Ea and omnipotent orb restricted according to op.

 

[Solacis]

No, it's not NLF. Joker gains his strength according to the Personas he equips. Even a weak Persona with a fire nullification passive would nullify an attack from Yaldabaoth if said attack was fire-attributed. We don't assume that just because it nulls Low 2-C fire that it would null fire from a higher tier. The fact that it nulls up to Low 2-C is just how the hax works.

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

Well I still don't think this would go anywhere then.

Gil can pre-cog/clairvoyance all of Ren's actually dangerous moves and move to dodge, Ren can't be put down. Neither can win-con.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Does Ren resist spatial manip?

Gil still has other space time cutting weapons

 

[Paul_Frank]

Reason?

You can be lv1 and can still bypass the highest lv boss resistance and barrier with almighty.

Because thats how we treat all hax on this site

That just means that is the highest thing it can neg, not that it can neg everything higher than what it has been shown capable of

 

[Solacis]

Speed is equalized and spammable large AOEs are a thing. Joker and his Personas can move and attack independently of each other, and Joker's gun is effectively an Almighty weapon. Even if Gil sees it coming, it's not always possible to dodge.

 

[Eganergo]

Does Ren resist spatial manip?

Gil still has other space time cutting weapons

I don't think he resist it, but if Gil need to use a weapon it will fall under physical damage. Physical damage can get reflected, nulled, and blocked. Even those that carry property such as mind manipulation or elemental damage.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Joker's gun is not even close to an almighty weapon

Aoe is nice but Gil can just hop onto a ship and fly around to avoid it, sni already tells him the entire fight before it starts

Alot of personas would also count as divine so if gil chains them, they are not going to be moving, attacking or able to be swapped

 

[Eganergo]

Because thats how we treat all hax on this site

That just means that is the highest thing it can neg, not that it can neg everything higher than what it has been shown capable of

I said that under the scope of low 2C which is Joker highest tier.

Edit: it would work as long as the said barrier 3D i assume,

 

[Solacis]

Joker's gun explicitly gains the ability to pierce all resistances from the Tower Confidant. As far as P5 is concerned, Joker's gun is an Almighty weapon.

 

[Solacis]

Personas are Non-Corporeal. Joker can easily dispel or switch them out.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Servants are non corporeal in spirit form, so are ghosts

Doesn't let them escape Enkidu even via command seal

 

[Solacis]

Except their spiritual cores are still there and bound. Enkidu binds space, preventing teleportation. Personas switching out or being dispelled isn't teleportation, it's their manifested bodies being destroyed and replaced with another.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

It should be noted that Gilgamesh will most likely get Subjective Reality via Ten Crowns ability. Not sure if it changes things here or not.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Ghosts and random divine spirits don't have spiritual cores and still can't leave Enkidu

 

[Solacis]

Ghosts are intangible, not incorporeal. Non-corporeality is defined by having one's 'true essence' separate from the body. Personas come from Ren's mind and their bodies are just projections.

Ghosts are disembodied souls. Their spiritual bodies are their true bodies. Also, Divine Spirits do have cores. The skill "Goddess Core" exists.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Goddess' divine core doesn't have anything to do with a spiritual core though

It also only exists in divine spirits that have been summoned as servants

 

[Solacis]

That's actually bull. Regardless, I won't waste my time with this. Enkidu only binds space. It clearly does not prevent the trapped from being destroyed, as seen with Heracles and Iskandar, so it can't stop Ren from dispelling his Personas.

Even then, Enkidu wouldn't recognize Ren's Personas as divine regardless of their origin anyway, since they're fragments of Ren's own soul taking those forms. A shapeshifter doesn't gain the attributes of what they shapeshift into. Same principle.

 

[Paul_Frank]

But shapeshifters do actually gain the attributes of what they shift into in the nasuverse

Either way I guess Gil can win with space cutting weapons which Sni will tell him to use while also telling him how to avoid any of Ren's attacks

 

[Solacis]

Space-cutting weapons that get nulled by physical null? Honestly this is Gil vs Accelerator all over again, now that I think about it.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Ren only resists type 4 concept manipulation so gil concept hax will work on him

 

[Paul_Frank]

Space-cutting weapons that get nulled by physical null? Honestly this is Gil vs Accelerator all over again, now that I think about it.

Except the weapons don't actually have to hit to cut space?

Also only certain persona's have physical null, not all of Joker's personas, even with the ability of inheriting traits, have physical null

 

[Solacis]

With the right fusion knowhow, it's possible to fuse any non-unique skill onto any Persona. This is even noted on Ren's page. Seeing as Null Physical is a common passive with no elemental traits, it's compatible with every Persona. The only difficult part of Persona fusion is getting the right combination of skills; getting one specific one is a piece of cake.

> Except the weapons don't actually have to hit to cut space?

So? Reflection works like an automatic forcefield. It just gets sent back into Gil's face the moment it gets close.

 

[Paul_Frank]

I know you can get null physical onto any persona but there is no reason to assume all of Ren's personas have null physical because that doesn't make sense. Why would Ren have constantly fused personas until he had every persona have null phys when he could have made his personas actually usefull in combat

Thats incorrect, the attack actually has to reach you in order for it to be reflected.

 

[Dark_warrior_100]

It should be assumed personas only have their standard/original skills

 

[Eganergo]

I know you can get null physical onto any persona but there is no reason to assume all of Ren's personas have null physical because that doesn't make sense. Why would Ren have constantly fused personas until he had every persona have null phys when he could have made his personas actually usefull in combat

Thats incorrect, the attack actually has to reach you in order for it to be reflected.

I did that on my playthrough.

 

[Paul_Frank]

I did too, I did it with Arsene, he sorely lacked any offense thanks to it though

 

[Solacis]

It should be assumed personas only have their standard/original skills

We've literally never had this assumption, since it's actually impossible to only have the base skills save direct recruitment.

Also, how about looking at reflection animations in Persona? It's very clearly a reflective barrier. The space-tearing is localized around the weapons, as with Caladbolg, so if they don't get close enough, they just get reflected. Even with the space-tearing, Heracles managed to deflect Caladbolg just fine with a completely normal axe-sword, so its not like said weapons bypass durability. Plus, Joker can just absorb it to heal himself too.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Doesn't Ea just yeet

I feel like the Omnipotent Orb ain't gonna do shit against that and Gil pretty explicitly opens with it in this key

 

[Solacis]

Doesn't Ea just yeet

Don't people read?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Ea and OO are restricted.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Ten Crowns EX was accepted as Subjective reality Negation on Gilgameshes profile now. Which makes him unkillable. All damage dealt to him would be reverted to 0 by it.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Doesn't Ea just yeet

Don't people read?

Doesn't lord Gilgamesh's holy existence just yeet you and Akira

 

[Solacis]

Ten Crowns EX was accepted as Subjective reality Negation on Gilgameshes profile now. Which makes him unkillable. All damage dealt to him would be reverted to 0 by it.

Well that ain't fun. RIP match.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

So... incon?

 

[Solacis]

Yeah, probably. Null/Absorb/Repel Physical nopes all of Gilgamesh's projectiles and Joker can reflect the active effects of the NPs themselves with Makarakarn. Meanwhile, Ren probably can't kill Gilgamesh now with Ten Crowns.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

I'm pretty sure gilgamesh's bladespam ***** up null physical, even assuming joker opens with it