The Golden Heroes | Sonic vs Gilgamesh | 0-0-0

[Omegabronic]

Not accepted

it is actually, not potency layers tho, so relax about that

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Layered AE was accepeted here iirc

It doesn't look like they discussed it there, just Nonduality.

Chaotic Dreams (Illumina, Void and Chaos Energy Revision)

hello, currently we already accept Dreams in Sonic as being a type 1 concept, so day i will explain why Maginary World and Dreams are more abstract than regular concepts and how they connect with Chaos Energy, plus some Higher Dimensional Existence additions for them as well Tl, dr: Cyber...

vsbattles.com

This seems to be the thread that got it accepted, but only one mod fully agreed with it, and it was made and finished before the Hax Layer Evaluation Thread was made, which means those layers should likely be reviewed just to see if they hold up.

He would have to interact with the Layered AE in order to null it

I don't believe that's the case (I could be wrong). Plus, the power nullification is done via Subjective Reality which is something neither Sonic nor Chaos or Cyber Energy resists (that's also not to mention that Gil's Ten Crowns nullified all of BB's abilities, which seemingly includes her Abstract Existence since her other physiology based powers like Acausality were negated).

 

[KingNanaya]

btw is Gilga 5D or 6D?

6D, possibly 8D

 

[Omegabronic]

It doesn't look like they discussed it there, just Nonduality.

Chaotic Dreams (Illumina, Void and Chaos Energy Revision)

hello, currently we already accept Dreams in Sonic as being a type 1 concept, so day i will explain why Maginary World and Dreams are more abstract than regular concepts and how they connect with Chaos Energy, plus some Higher Dimensional Existence additions for them as well Tl, dr: Cyber...

vsbattles.com

This seems to be the thread that got it accepted, but only one mod fully agreed with it, and it was made and finished before the Hax Layer Evaluation Thread was made, which means those layers should likely be reviewed just to see if they hold up.

it was re reviewed in the other thread linked, where it, and several other more, were accepted, so not problem about that

I don't believe that's the case (I could be wrong). Plus, the power nullification is done via Subjective Reality which is something neither Sonic nor Chaos or Cyber Energy resists (that's also not to mention that Gil's Ten Crowns nullified all of BB's abilities, which seemingly includes her Abstract Existence since her other physiology based powers like Acausality were negated).

thing is, if the power can't even interact with a thing, then it can't apply said haxes to said thing, so, yeah

altho i am pretty sure Gilga must have some other options outside of power null and subjective reality, if any of those can affect Sonic himself, then it is pretty much his battle, so what else does he have?

 

[Omegabronic]

6D, possibly 8D

thank you very much

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

all actions? i def need to see a scan for such a big claim like that, altho

the range is all that his aura touches, also it is his aura doing that, it is passive

I meant the aura expanding, but fair enough.

he can't interact with it, too abstract, the Chaos Energy i mean

You say that it's too abstract, but then you say it's not potency layers later. I'm confused.

i'm confused, you just said something seeminly not in context with the phrase you are quoting is asking, his altering things passively doesn't answer if the effects of what he is altering can't be nulled back to what it was before

Sorry, that was my bad. But to answer, your question, no, probably not since Gil is passively nulling "all things that have occurred," which include Sonic trying to un-nullify his abilities.

i.....didn't linked any thread, also it was accepted my multiple staff, hence why it was accepted

You didn't, but the blog linked a thread. Sorry, I should've specified that.

no? it was full on agreed by 4

Chaotic Dreams (Illumina, Void and Chaos Energy Revision)

hello, currently we already accept Dreams in Sonic as being a type 1 concept, so day i will explain why Maginary World and Dreams are more abstract than regular concepts and how they connect with Chaos Energy, plus some Higher Dimensional Existence additions for them as well Tl, dr: Cyber...

vsbattles.com

Only Maverick_Zero_X fully accepted the greater Abstract Existence. LordGriffon1000 was neutral on it. They were also the only mods on the thread.

considering that the problem of the layers that that thread gave is not close to being the argument for this one, then no, also the thread accepting this was made first iirc, not that it matters, we still got it accepted by staff as legitimate, besides this isn't hax potency layers, it isn't even "layers" it is simply describing the levels of abstraction, not the potency

There seem to be other verses with similar ideas that are still being evaluated on the hax layer thread even if they are different than standard "layered" abilities. Plus, even though it was accepted, it was accepted before updated standards, so it should still be evaluated on the thread.

i suggesty you stoping using the term "layered AE", use any other term you want, but "layers" implies potency layers, which is not what this is

Then what are they? Could you clarify, please?

 

[Eseseso]

Doesn't Gilgamesh have a 1-C weapon?

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

it was re reviewed in the other thread linked, where it, and several other more, were accepted, so not problem about that

It doesn't look like it to me. The thread focused on nonduality and Illumia updates, not the greater abstractions, or whatever we're talking about.

thing is, if the power can't even interact with a thing, then it can't apply said haxes to said thing, so, yeah

Eh, I feel like the greater abstraction thing should be sorted first before continuing (and I need to go get a number for Gil's layered hax accepted).

Though, Sonic himself isn't abstract, just his energy, right? So, theoretically, the power null can affect Sonic without necessarily affecting his energy.

(I don't know, I'm just spitballing here).

altho i am pretty sure Gilga must have some other options outside of power null and subjective reality, if any of those can affect Sonic himself, then it is pretty much his battle, so what else does he have?

That's the thing, Gilgamesh has a billion and one hax, but until I understand this "layered abstract existence" or whatever it is better, Gilgamesh can't hit Sonic because of his aura of abstract Chaos Energy (unless my dumb idea of affecting Sonic without interacting with his energy was correct or you're suggesting that there are ways to hit Sonic anyway).

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Doesn't Gilgamesh have a 1-C weapon?

All of his weapons are Low 1-C because that's the key we're using.

Unless you're talking about 1-A, in which case, you would seemingly be correct because the thread meant to downgrade it never concluded.

 

[KingNanaya]

Unless you're talking about 1-A, in which case, you would seemingly be correct because the thread meant to downgrade it never concluded.

wait, really?

 

[Omegabronic]

that seems to be subjective reality rather than Power Null

You say that it's too abstract, but then you say it's not potency layers later. I'm confused.

potency layers and abstraction levels are not the same thing, one dictates how strong your hax is and how much it can bypass, the other is a similar relationship to how "less tangit" one thing is from another, altho, i don't think the specification in this case matters much for the end result, so meh

Sorry, that was my bad. But to answer, your question, no, probably not since Gil is passively nulling "all things that have occurred," which include Sonic trying to un-nullify his abilities.

ok, this is interesting, just to question, would it null Sonic thinking to beging with? if yes, then this pretty much becomes a stomp for Gil since the Emeralds need Sonic's thoughts to work, at least to make him stay Low 1-C in power that is

You didn't, but the blog linked a thread. Sorry, I should've specified that.

Chaotic Dreams (Illumina, Void and Chaos Energy Revision)

hello, currently we already accept Dreams in Sonic as being a type 1 concept, so day i will explain why Maginary World and Dreams are more abstract than regular concepts and how they connect with Chaos Energy, plus some Higher Dimensional Existence additions for them as well Tl, dr: Cyber...

vsbattles.com

Only Maverick_Zero_X fully accepted the greater Abstract Existence. LordGriffon1000 was neutral on it. They were also the only mods on the thread.

there was a another thread improving the reasonings and expanding it, which 4 mods agreed, so we are on the clear

There seem to be other verses with similar ideas that are still being evaluated on the hax layer thread even if they are different than standard "layered" abilities. Plus, even though it was accepted, it was accepted before updated standards, so it should still be evaluated on the thread.

not the second thread as i said, pretty sure that one was made after the standards changed, and looking at the said changes, the reasoning was never in line with what was changed, as in, it didn't used any "stronger = layers" reasoning, other people choosing that thread to evaluate is their choice, not everyone needs to go to that thread for that tho, as long as a thread was made to accept them it is ok, multiple staff said this through out that thread multiple times

Then what are they? Could you clarify, please?

it is still layers, just not in the potency sense, for example, it doesn't give 6 layers of concept hax to overpowering a 7 layered resistance, think of it more like a level thing where one aspect controls and defines the other, i really don't know why it can't be potency as well, but that was what i was told when i brought the idea, but if you really want a more clear example, we actually have a page for that

Metaphysical Aspects

The term Metaphysical Aspects refers to aspects of existence which are not part of the physical world, or spiritual aspects like mind or soul, but define or govern the world from the background. Examples include laws, causality, information, concepts, plot and also things our wiki does not list...

vsbattles.fandom.com

bunch of complicated stuff i can't even begin to try and summarize (1 am where i live rn, head kind of fuzy) so, if you want a more detailed explanation, you can read it here, sorry, my head is not good enough to explain more right now, maybe tomorrow

 

[KingNanaya]

there was a another thread improving the reasonings and expanding it, which 4 mods agreed, so we are on the clear

could you link it?

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

wait, really?

Nasuverse Roa Root Level Social Influencing

Michael Roa Valdamjong, more commonly known as Roa, of Tsukihime has been tricking us for the longest time. I have been searching tirelessly for proof. I have checked his page here, his Type Moon Wiki page, even on Discord. Every single source I have checked believed the same lie The Infinite...

vsbattles.com

Yep. I was surprised too since the downgrades are usually the only Nasuverse threads that actually go anywhere.

 

[KingNanaya]

Nasuverse Roa Root Level Social Influencing

Michael Roa Valdamjong, more commonly known as Roa, of Tsukihime has been tricking us for the longest time. I have been searching tirelessly for proof. I have checked his page here, his Type Moon Wiki page, even on Discord. Every single source I have checked believed the same lie The Infinite...

vsbattles.com

Yep. I was surprised too since the downgrades are usually the only Nasuverse threads that actually go anywhere.

just needs one more agree. shouldn't be too hard

 

[Omegabronic]

It doesn't look like it to me. The thread focused on nonduality and Illumia updates, not the greater abstractions, or whatever we're talking about.

it did in the sandbox of it at the time, this is were the current one's came from

Eh, I feel like the greater abstraction thing should be sorted first before continuing

eh, it already is

(and I need to go get a number for Gil's layered hax accepted).

wait, if his number of layers are not decided yet, then i don't think this can continue, that is kind of important in a match

Though, Sonic himself isn't abstract, just his energy, right? So, theoretically, the power null can affect Sonic without necessarily affecting his energy.

yeah, altho his aura nulls the effect of the Subjective reality, altho if it can stop him from thinking, then it is pretty much GG

(I don't know, I'm just spitballing here).

sonic is not abstract himself, you are right lol

That's the thing, Gilgamesh has a billion and one hax, but until I understand this "layered abstract existence" or whatever it is better, Gilgamesh can't hit Sonic because of his aura of abstract Chaos Energy (unless my dumb idea of affecting Sonic without interacting with his energy was correct or you're suggesting that there are ways to hit Sonic anyway).

if he can do things that just........affect Sonic without traveling, then yeah he can affect him

 

[Omegabronic]

btw, if his layers are not decided yet, i think it would be best to put this on hold until they are decided, at least from past experience with this type of stuff, this is what usually happens in such situations

 

[Eseseso]

All of his weapons are Low 1-C because that's the key we're using.

Unless you're talking about 1-A, in which case, you would seemingly be correct because the thread meant to downgrade it never concluded.

Oh, I was referring to EE being 1-C in his second key.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

that seems to be subjective reality rather than Power Null

That's exactly what it is. It's passive Subjective Reality which causes a bunch of effects including Power Nullification.

potency layers and abstraction levels are not the same thing, one dictates how strong your hax is and how much it can bypass, the other is a similar relationship to how "less tangit" one thing is from another, altho, i don't think the specification in this case matters much for the end result, so meh

Oh, I see. See, when I was reading "layered abstract existence," I was thinking it meant there were essentially six layers of intangibility (basically each greater abstraction was more untouchable than the lower ones). I guess I was right, but you and I were confused because we used terms differently.

ok, this is interesting, just to question, would it null Sonic thinking to beging with? if yes, then this pretty much becomes a stomp for Gil since the Emeralds need Sonic's thoughts to work, at least to make him stay Low 1-C in power that is

I actually don't know. I want to say, "yes," but I can't say for sure.

there was a another thread improving the reasonings and expanding it, which 4 mods agreed, so we are on the clear

Do you have a link to it?

not the second thread as i said, pretty sure that one was made after the standards changed, and looking at the said changes, the reasoning was never in line with what was changed, as in, it didn't used any "stronger = layers" reasoning, other people choosing that thread to evaluate is their choice, not everyone needs to go to that thread for that tho, as long as a thread was made to accept them it is ok, multiple staff said this through out that thread multiple times

Yeah, but that specific thread (the one I linked) was made and finished before the standards changed (it only finished about a week before the new hax standards became a thing, hilariously). While it doesn't necessarily conform to the normal ideas about hax layers, it still is about more potent abstract existence and non-physical interaction, so it should still be looked into.

it is still layers, just not in the potency sense, for example, it doesn't give 6 layers of concept hax to overpowering a 7 layered resistance, think of it more like a level thing where one aspect controls and defines the other, i really don't know why it can't be potency as well, but that was what i was told when i brought the idea, but if you really want a more clear example, we actually have a page for that

Metaphysical Aspects

The term Metaphysical Aspects refers to aspects of existence which are not part of the physical world, or spiritual aspects like mind or soul, but define or govern the world from the background. Examples include laws, causality, information, concepts, plot and also things our wiki does not list...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I see, I think?

bunch of complicated stuff i can't even begin to try and summarize (1 am where i live rn, head kind of fuzy) so, if you want a more detailed explanation, you can read it here, sorry, my head is not good enough to explain more right now, maybe tomorrow

Yeah, that's fair. I need to go to bed myself anyway.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

just needs one more agree. shouldn't be too hard

Yeah, but we'll have to see if that happens or not, especially since there is opposition.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

it did in the sandbox of it at the time, this is were the current one's came from

I see. Well, it still didn't seem like the focus of the thread to me, especially since the "Levels of Abstraction" part was accepted in the previous thread I linked.

Whatever the case, it can't hurt to get it evaluated again. We are an indexing site, so accuracy is the most important thing, after all.

wait, if his number of layers are not decided yet, then i don't think this can continue, that is kind of important in a match

Yeah, it's kind of funny. Layers are accepted, we just haven't gotten around to giving them numbers (they might be near-infinitely layered depending on how it goes).

yeah, altho his aura nulls the effect of the Subjective reality, altho if it can stop him from thinking, then it is pretty much GG

Interesting.

sonic is not abstract himself, you are right lol

Cool.

if he can do things that just........affect Sonic without traveling, then yeah he can affect him

Hm.. then he might have some options.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

btw, if his layers are not decided yet, i think it would be best to put this on hold until they are decided, at least from past experience with this type of stuff, this is what usually happens in such situations

I can agree with that.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Oh, I was referring to EE being 1-C in his second key.

Enuma Elish is just "higher" than Gilgamesh's tier, whether that's Low 1-C or 1-C. It's not just 1-C in attack potency, as far as I know

 

[Youngstargrade]

The layers are accepted??
last time i checked the layers were rejected in the layer thread

layers for authority have been received in the layered hax evaluation thread..but we don't know the exact number yet..because it hasn't been counted yet..

 

[XxZetsuxX]

What's the concensus here?

I'm doing a quick skim or however you say it and people are arguing about the layers of AE

Are we still on it or did someone made votes/showed wincons for the characters?

 

[Omegabronic]

What's the concensus here?

I'm doing a quick skim or however you say it and people are arguing about the layers of AE

Are we still on it or did someone made votes/showed wincons for the characters?

Gilga doesn't have his layers size figured out yet, so we are waiting for that

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Gilga doesn't have his layers size figured out yet, so we are waiting for that

I see, Thanks for telling me

 

[KingNanaya]

Gilga doesn't have his layers size figured out yet, so we are waiting for that

that's gonna be a pretty long while. all of the nasu supporters are focused on just about everything else except for the Fate/Extra stuff, myself included.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

that's gonna be a pretty long while. all of the nasu supporters are focused on just about everything else except for the Fate/Extra stuff, myself included.

The number of layers aren't necessarily dependent on Fate/Extra stuff (honestly, most of the good numbers probably come from Fate/Grand Order), but yeah, most of us aren't focused on that right now. I could maybe try to get something accepted, but that might have to wait a bit.