Removing Power of the Verse from Verse pages

[Antvasima]

On second thought, wouldn't the easiest solution here be to simply disallow usage of subjective "this worse is very strong/weak", "this verse is somewhat strong/weak", et cetera statements within the "Power of the Verse" sections via an official instruction rule? The rest of the information within those sections does not seem to cause any harm and is likely recurrently useful for visitors who want a quick overview.

But isn't it more useful and easily applied to simply instruct our members to keep those sections updated, to avoid subjective statements, etc., meaning to allegorically renovate the house in a sensible manner, rather than tear down the entire building to build a new one?

I personally think that it is an important niché and that we should probably figure out a way to restructure the power of the verse section to turn more useful instead of deleting it

These are still my views regarding the "Power of the Verse" sections, but I think that the new "Scaling" section instructions draft seems good.

Scaling (Optional)​

---

• This section should accurately explain which feats are applicable to characters and entities within the verse and how they "scale" amongst them. Examples of how to portray this could include
  • A scaling chain which lists off characters based on their relative strength to each other, e.g. (Dark Knight Accounts > PoH >= Goddess Accounts > Gabriel > EoA Kirito >>> Star King Kirito)
  • A brief excerpt of what feats apply to which characters.
  • Power or grading systems that may place characters in certain realms of power relative to each other.
  • Outliers or feats that may not be applicable to characters at current.
  • A potential list of in-verse "Tiering", with reasoning as to why characters are in each tier.

I still think that it is unnecessary and overzealous to completely get rid of all the powers and abilities sections, rather than just the bad parts of them. There is still useful information within many of them, so all of this would be lots of work for no true benefit, and I think that the information there would act as a good complement to sections explaining the scaling.

I still think that it is best to just clean up the power of the verse sections by removing "this verse is strong/weak" mentions, make them more matter of fact, and add scaling sections right underneath them.

Would it be fine if I started removing "The verse is ... strong"? Since that seems to have been widely accepted.

@AKM sama @DontTalkDT @DarkDragonMedeus @Mr. Bambu @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @Agnaa @Just_a_Random_Butler @DarkGrath @Dereck03 @Planck69

Your input would be appreciated here.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Not sure entirely what I said before, but I think instead of removing it outright; some ground rules about making simplified overview of the various tiers of what most characters scale from, and what it peaks are whether in the form of a god tier character and/or weapon is fine to list. As well as listing notable speed ratings and list of power and abilities. I'd rule out starting up with generic, "Very powerful verse" description or other statements that are similar or are the generic opposite description.

I already have here.

 

[Planck69]

I don't mind removing relative descriptions like, "X is a very powerful/weak verse" from the section. The section itself is fine aside from that and I'd prefer we just have some ground rules for what is to be explained there (current tiers, some common abilities etc.).

I'm fine with the Scaling section proposed by Curry.

 

[Antvasima]

I already have here.

Thank you. I think that your evaluation seems to make sense.

I don't mind removing relative descriptions like, "X is a very powerful/weak verse" from the section. The section itself is fine aside from that and I'd prefer we just have some ground rules for what is to be explained there (current tiers, some common abilities etc.).

I'm fine with the Scaling section proposed by Curry.

Thank you. Agreed.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

I got permission from @Antvasima to send a message in this thread

Two weeks ago, I did a revision to the Death Note verse page's "Power of the Verse" section that was inspired by what I read in this thread. Is this an acceptable start to implementing this project?

 

[DontTalkDT]

@AKM sama @DontTalkDT @DarkDragonMedeus @Mr. Bambu @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @Agnaa @Just_a_Random_Butler @DarkGrath @Dereck03 @Planck69

Your input would be appreciated here.

Personally, I think the power of the verse pages should stay, but we should get rid of formulations like "this verse is strong".

Generally, a properly written section could have useful information. It's often neglected because we don't do "verse vs verse" debates. There are things that don't make much sense to mention elsewhere. E.g. Death Mage mentions two universe creating gods, who are relevant for the power of the verse as a whole, but couldn't really get profiles as their abilities are otherwise entirely unknown. One could also mention such things in a cosmology page, of course, but making one for a verses with an otherwise not too interesting cosmology seems like not the ideal approach.

Another thing that could be mentioned uniquely in the power of the verse section are things like average power level of citizens or the numbers of armies which don't have faction profiles.

Also, I personally just like to have it to give a brief overview of the powers and stats.

So... yeah, I'm in favor of keeping it.

 

[Antvasima]

As usual, I agree with DontTalk.

I got permission from @Antvasima to send a message in this thread

Two weeks ago, I did a revision to the Death Note verse page's "Power of the Verse" section that was inspired by what I read in this thread. Is this an acceptable start to implementing this project?

I think that seems quite good, yes.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Your input would be appreciated here.

I believe I already gave my input, my thoughts haven't changed as far as I can recall. I don't mind keeping it, just nuke the useless information, like DontTalk mentioned.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for your evaluation. Do we have sufficient support for applying DontTalk's suggestions here, or should I send a notification to our administrators again?

 

[CurrySenpai]

I think the real issue is how do we get people to remove the assumptive language, and if the "scaling" section will no longer be optional.

obviously people can roll out changes overtime, but it'd be nice for like an announcement to be made.

 

[Antvasima]

Personally, I think the power of the verse pages should stay, but we should get rid of formulations like "this verse is strong".

Generally, a properly written section could have useful information. It's often neglected because we don't do "verse vs verse" debates. There are things that don't make much sense to mention elsewhere. E.g. Death Mage mentions two universe creating gods, who are relevant for the power of the verse as a whole, but couldn't really get profiles as their abilities are otherwise entirely unknown. One could also mention such things in a cosmology page, of course, but making one for a verses with an otherwise not too interesting cosmology seems like not the ideal approach.

Another thing that could be mentioned uniquely in the power of the verse section are things like average power level of citizens or the numbers of armies which don't have faction profiles.

Also, I personally just like to have it to give a brief overview of the powers and stats.

So... yeah, I'm in favor of keeping it.

@DarkDragonMedeus @Mr. Bambu @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @Agnaa @Just_a_Random_Butler @DarkGrath @Dereck03 @Planck69

Does this seem acceptable to you?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It does, yeah. It doesn't even really need to be a big process. Just gradually phase it out as you see it, keep the text objective.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. Agreed.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Personally, I think the power of the verse pages should stay, but we should get rid of formulations like "this verse is strong".

Generally, a properly written section could have useful information. It's often neglected because we don't do "verse vs verse" debates. There are things that don't make much sense to mention elsewhere. E.g. Death Mage mentions two universe creating gods, who are relevant for the power of the verse as a whole, but couldn't really get profiles as their abilities are otherwise entirely unknown. One could also mention such things in a cosmology page, of course, but making one for a verses with an otherwise not too interesting cosmology seems like not the ideal approach.

Another thing that could be mentioned uniquely in the power of the verse section are things like average power level of citizens or the numbers of armies which don't have faction profiles.

Also, I personally just like to have it to give a brief overview of the powers and stats.

So... yeah, I'm in favor of keeping it.

Seems legit.

 

[Damage3245]

Seems fine to me.

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm of the approach that it should be optional. Not all verses have complicated scaling, sometimes it's just three characters that all scale to the same feats, and stating "This verse is 9-A and Supersonic" only to immediately lay out the actual feats and ratings in the calculations section is very redundant. It can serve a purpose for outlining scaling but that purpose won't apply to everything.

 

[Antvasima]

I'm of the approach that it should be optional. Not all verses have complicated scaling, sometimes it's just three characters that all scale to the same feats, and stating "This verse is 9-A and Supersonic" only to immediately lay out the actual feats and ratings in the calculations section is very redundant. It can serve a purpose for outlining scaling but that purpose won't apply to everything.

Yes, I also think that listing the scaling chains should be optional.

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean "Power of the Verse" as a whole should be optional, given that'd be its main purpose now, and the other uses would similarly be only important to certain verses.

 

[Just_a_Random_Butler]

Personally, I think the power of the verse pages should stay, but we should get rid of formulations like "this verse is strong".

Generally, a properly written section could have useful information. It's often neglected because we don't do "verse vs verse" debates. There are things that don't make much sense to mention elsewhere. E.g. Death Mage mentions two universe creating gods, who are relevant for the power of the verse as a whole, but couldn't really get profiles as their abilities are otherwise entirely unknown. One could also mention such things in a cosmology page, of course, but making one for a verses with an otherwise not too interesting cosmology seems like not the ideal approach.

Another thing that could be mentioned uniquely in the power of the verse section are things like average power level of citizens or the numbers of armies which don't have faction profiles.

Also, I personally just like to have it to give a brief overview of the powers and stats.

So... yeah, I'm in favor of keeping it.

Does this seem acceptable to you?

Yes, I believe what he said was reasonable.

 

[CurrySenpai]

I still think that Power of the verse should be made optional with Scaling taking its place.

 

[Antvasima]

So how should we apply what has been accepted here in practice, more specifically?

 

[Antvasima]

So how should we apply what has been accepted here in practice, more specifically?

Initially I think that we need to apply a formatting rule to the following page, and after that, volunteers among our our content moderators and administrators might have to apply the changes in practice to the verse pages in our wiki.

Standard Format for Verse Pages

Insert a picture of the Verse at the very top, just above the Summary section. For pictures that are wider horizontally, the alignment is to the center, and the maximum size is 590px, in order to fit in tablet screens. For pictures that are longer vertically, or are of similar size in both...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Armorchompy]

Do we have a vote tally?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I called for our administrators earlier, and of those who responded I think that they agreed with DontTalk's evaluation.

 

[Armorchompy]

I don't really wanna go forward based on an "I think", given the consensus before was definitely to remove the section, at least in some cases. I'm personally of the opinion it should be optional.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, all five of the administrators who responded agreed with DontTalk's assessment, so that makes at least two bureaucrats, two super moderators, and three administrators, and we are unlikely to receive any further replies by staff members with voting rights regarding this type of wiki-affecting issue.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Well, all five of the administrators who responded agreed with DontTalk's assessment, so that makes at least two bureaucrats, two super moderators, and three administrators, and we are unlikely to receive any further replies by staff members with voting rights regarding this type of wiki-affecting issue.

So should we proceed?

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, that seems good to me. Thank you for helping out.