SAO Upgrade CRT | Absorbing the Sun or something idk

[CurrySenpai]

This thread will be the Shibuya Arc of SAO CRTs.......

Anyway, this thread aims to upgrade Kirito's Night-Sky Sword to High 6-A and Star King Kirito to High 6-A as well. The reasoning being a feat in Moon Cradle, where he absorbs the luminosity of the Sun with the Night-Sky Sword. Now, I made this thread earlier in 2022, not much happened, and I didn't really fight back, but I'm absolutely confident this is a valid feat after consulting some other people. I will also go over the contention in the previous 2022 thread.

Without further ado... Link Start!

Kirito displays epic succing skills!​

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So, in Vol 20 of Moon Cradle during its climax against Crugia and his Dark Minions, Kirito uses the Night-Sky Sword to suck up the light of Solus and then turn that "Sacred Power" into light elements. I'll link the quotes below, they are as follows (all quotes are from Yen Press, Moon Cradle doesn’t have Fan TLs)

This is honestly pretty cut and dry. For context, Kirito is fighting against Crugia and in order to swiftly defeat his Dark Minion's he uses the Memory Release of the Night-Sky Sword to absorb the ENTIRE light of Solus, which is the Sun in Underworld. As mentioned in the imgur link it describes that Solus had lost ALL its light, comparing the feat to Lunaria completely covering it like a solar eclipse. It also says the blade was extremely luminous, easily blinding people as Kirito turns it into Light Elements.

The second quote then says that he is sucking up/absorbing the light of Solus, not just making the sky dark.

As I mentioned earlier, this passage is very direct, saying that Solus lost ALL its light and goes out of its way to differentiate it from the scene with Vecta which has a similar ability.

But the last thread had SOME contention, so I'll cover that here.

EPICLY DESTROYING THE WOKE KIRITO DOWNPLAY ARGUMENTS!!!​

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"Isn't this the same feat?" No it's not, I already covered this a bit before, but the second quote says he absorbed the sunlight. Not only that but in this 3rd quote it says that what Kirito did with Vecta was turning the sky to night not getting rid of the luminosity, kind of like putting a sheet over it.

"They hadn't gone to space yet, so it can't be at this potency!" That doesn't work because, once again, Kirito is absorbing the luminosity of the entirety of Solus, not just getting blocking it out. The quote is that it lost all its light, and I don't see how it could be at a "lesser" potency, since it's never mentioned that Solus is darker than Earth's sun. Besides, there's also this quote that eludes to the fact Kirito had already made Underworld Planet Sized.

This is also the volume when Kirito makes and tests the dragoncrafts, the devices that let him traverse in space and across Underworld quickly.
"He couldn't have absorbed all of it, the sun would have died!" Underworld is already unconventional by real world means, it runs on the shared memories of all its inhabitants and is quite literally a game/simulation, I would not be surprised if the sun just came back after some time, besides, just like versus Vecta, Kirito's Release Recollection wears off, and the sky returns to normal, it's completely valid to assume it just returned overtime, even Ronye says the Light Elements would fade away with time.

Conclusion​

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Kirito should be Tiered High 6-A as the luminosity of the sun is 3.846e26 watts and that's just 3.846e26 joules. His War of Underworld key would recieve High 6-A with release recollection, and his Star King and Queen Asuna key would be High 6-A.
(also I changed the title on the 21st of April to try and clickbait people))
Agree: Success0906, Fujiwara (The Goat), Reiner04, Vzearr, LuffyRuffy, Kuon, Satella, Phoenks, AdemVhenJP, Rakih_Elyan, DarkDragonMedeus (Agrees with a likely/possibly rating), Quibster, Omnificence, CloverDragon03 (Full High 6-A), Theglassman12, Dalesean027, LordGriffin1000 (possibly/likely), Speezenator, GarrixianXD
Disagree: DMUA, Maverick_Zero_X, Agnaa (Disagrees with full luminosity of the sun), Mr. Bambu
Neutralmaxxing:

 

[Success0906]

I will call mods. Oh, I agree btw.

 

[Reiner04]

Having seen this feat already, it seems fine.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Also I think it’s important to mention the feat with Vecta where he turns the day time sky into night mag have to just be scrapped entirerly, this new text and some other quotes confirm he’s just changing it to night and I don’t see how just turning the sky dark could be an AP feat.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I agree.

 

[Success0906]

I agree.

Wait a moment.. I think I have seen you somewhere..

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Wait a moment.. I think I have seen you somewhere..

nuh uh

 

[CurrySenpai]

I will call mods. Oh, I agree btw.

Where the mods bro

 

[Success0906]

nuh uh

Nah, you were being bullied by some guy on tensura's immeasurable CRT.

 

[Success0906]

Where the mods bro

Called 3 mods. If not even one of them are here, might as well kill myself in Minecraft.

 

[Success0906]

Called 3 mods. If not even one of them are here, might as well kill myself in Minecraft.

Wait a minute, aren't you a mod yourself?!

 

[CurrySenpai]

Wait a minute, aren't you a mod yourself?!

On fc/Oc wiki lol let’s stop derailing though.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

This all looks good to me, this is impeccable.

 

[CurrySenpai]

At this point I don’t really see how this thread could get denied. Like genuinely

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

At this point I don’t really see how this thread could get denied. Like genuinely

There's no denying a work of art like this.

 

[CurrySenpai]

There's no denying a work of art like this.

You saying that with the Goku Black pfp is hilarious to me

 

[Vzearr]

Looks good. Agree.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

You saying that with the Goku Black pfp is hilarious to me

Don't mind that, i can be a protagonist and a villain at the same time, but i will never allow a bad thing

 

[CurrySenpai]

Bro… no one give af

 

[Magicomethkuon]

I don't see why not.
Agreed.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Bro… no one give af

Tag some team members so we can start the game

 

[CurrySenpai]

Tag some team members so we can start the game

I did bro, the real thing is whether DMUA shows up and kills me.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

disagree, SAO should be stuck in tier 7 jail

agree but buy me McDonalds next time

 

[CurrySenpai]

disagree, SAO should be stuck in tier 7 jail

agree but buy me McDonalds next time

For what purpose???

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

For what purpose???

winter bulk
it is 30 degrees Celsius here

 

[CurrySenpai]

winter bulk
it is 30 degrees Celsius here

In freedom units please

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

In freedom units please

869 fahreneits

 

[DMUA]

Dude, Curry, inserting cringe into your upgrade threads doesn't help anyone. Just gonna say that flatly, rather than dressing it up in humor like last time.

This is honestly pretty cut and dry. For context, Kirito is fighting against Crugia and in order to swiftly defeat his Dark Minion's he uses the Memory Release of the Night-Sky Sword to absorb the ENTIRE light of Solus, which is the Sun in Underworld. As mentioned in the imgur link it describes that Solus had lost ALL its light, comparing the feat to Lunaria completely covering it like a solar eclipse.

This sorta defeats itself. A solar eclipse doesn't literally negate High 6-A energy, just block a lot of light from reaching the earth. That's what this feat's always been.

"They hadn't gone to space yet, so it can't be at this potency!" That doesn't work because, once again, Kirito is absorbing the luminosity of the entirety of Solus, not just getting blocking it out. The quote is that it lost all its light, and I don't see how it could be at a "lesser" potency, since it's never mentioned that Solus is darker than Earth's sun.

The amount of sunlight that reaches earth (and especially one specific continent) is far lesser than the full luminosity. If the celestial body itself isn't fully simulated, it's not going to output High 6-A energy in the process.

Underworld is already unconventional by real world means, it runs on the shared memories of all its inhabitants and is quite literally a game/simulation,

This would once again negate the entire feat, because people just see the sun as a big light source, not a giant fusion reactor constantly using the power of mass energy conversion to produce unfathomable heat and light.

I think that's all, I disagree, I'll check if I addressed everything again once I get back home

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

The amount of sunlight that reaches earth (and especially one specific continent) is far lesser than the full luminosity. If the celestial body itself isn't fully simulated, it's not going to output High 6-A energy in the process.

This isn't really a point against the feat when the text just outright says all of its light had been lost. There are a million and one ways to convey the sun dimming without its light fading entirely, so the fact that it is specified that all of its light was absorbed is indicative that that's actually what happened. I'm not sure why we'd go with a lower interpretation when the text says something else entirely.

This would once again negate the entire feat, because people just see the sun as a big light source, not a giant fusion reactor constantly using the power of mass energy conversion to produce unfathomable heat and light.

Yeah, people see it as a light source. The high 6-A rating comes from the energy of that light, and nothing else. I even outright said to Curry to just use luminosity for this feat because the text even specifies that the light gave off no heat; I'm not sure what your point is when we're already calculating the light of the sun and nothing else.

 

[CurrySenpai]

This sorta defeats itself. A solar eclipse doesn't literally negate High 6-A energy, just block a lot of light from reaching the earth. That's what this feat's always been.

It's moreso the fact that it's used as a direct comparison, with the text citing it was as if Solus had lost ALL its light. It's not the flowery stuff Reki usually puts in where it would be like "The sun had seemingly disappeared due to his Memory Release technique, almost as if it had left this world." It's a direct statement followed by a comparison to a real world phenomena.

The amount of sunlight that reaches earth (and especially one specific continent) is far lesser than the full luminosity. If the celestial body itself isn't fully simulated, it's not going to output High 6-A energy in the process.

I mean, there is text from Kirito talking about Underworld as a planet, not a continent. He knows about the End Wall's existence and in the previous Volume he had performed the first Mechadragon Flight Test, further perfecting them into Volume 20. But, even then, I don't understand why it would be lesser, nothing really alludes to it being that way. Sure, if Kirito had made a remark about how Underworld wouldn't need as much light to survive, unlike Earth in real life, this would make sense, but there's nothing like that. Not even Reki in all his random twitter word of god glory says anything like that.

This would once again negate the entire feat, because people just see the sun as a big light source, not a giant fusion reactor constantly using the power of mass energy conversion to produce unfathomable heat and light.

I mean, they kinda do? It is mentioned that the Sun is "Sacred Power" which iirc from Unital Ring is just power from specific sources unlike spatial resources. The Sun being a giant sacred power/spatial resource generator plays a big part into Underworlder's daily life as it produces the things they need to live. That's why the Dark Territory is called what it is and is such a wasteland when we first see it, there just wasn't enough spatial resoucres there to keep the fauna alive because it's needed to survive (although I think that's because it's just generally uninhabitable because Rath ****** with it)

Also on that topic, it's a natural rule that things in Underworld regenerate life over time. Sheathing Divine Objects after they've used their Perfect Weapon Control Art makes them regenerate Life, cauterizing wounds and getting them patched up makes you regenerate life at some point, there are other instances, but I can't remember what off the top of my head.

A solar eclipse doesn't literally negate High 6-A energy, just block a lot of light from reaching the earth. That's what this feat's always been.

I mean, it's not the same thing. This is a completely different scene and ability. The only other instance we have is when Kirito v. Gabriel and the quote I attached goes out of its way to say it changes the sky to a night sky while this one brings up the Night-Sky Sword's resource absorbing power, and saying that is the cause for the sun's light disappearing. The only thing Kirito absorbs vs Gabriel is the Spatial Resources created by people's incarnation.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Dude, Curry, inserting cringe into your upgrade threads doesn't help anyone. Just gonna say that flatly, rather than dressing it up in humor like last time.

It's just how I like to portray things and act. At then end of the day, I've always said I do not wish to take power scaling seriously to a point where it becomes exhaustive or genuinely messes with my mood. Dressing things up in a silly manner is just how I cope/do that.

 

[Phoenks]

I stand with Curry. Agree with the upgrade it seems quite cut and dry to me.

 

[DMUA]

This isn't really a point against the feat when the text just outright says all of its light had been lost. There are a million and one ways to convey the sun dimming without its light fading entirely, so the fact that it is specified that all of its light was absorbed is indicative that that's actually what happened. I'm not sure why we'd go with a lower interpretation when the text says something else entirely.

If my time with SAO has taught me anything, pretty much any circumstance of something being ambiguous is Reki writing for the lower end interpretation to be taken literally. It's a pattern that's repeated pretty historically with things being described to sound extremely high Tier, only to have multiple pieces of direct evidence to show that's not literal. There's been a lot of this, but here's pretty much the origin point of that being a notable trend

Yeah, people see it as a light source. The high 6-A rating comes from the energy of that light, and nothing else. I even outright said to Curry to just use luminosity for this feat because the text even specifies that the light gave off no heat; I'm not sure what your point is when we're already calculating the light of the sun and nothing else.

It's inverse square law. Earth just won't be able to see a significant portion of that amount of sunlight, so it disappearing from the perspective of people there isn't going to require High 6-A energy, rather than more around 6-C (and that's assuming this effect is over the entire planet, it's Low 7-B for the underworld in particular, 7-B for our current calc since it lasted for a prolonged period)

I mean, there is text from Kirito talking about Underworld as a planet, not a continent. He knows about the End Wall's existence and in the previous Volume he had performed the first Mechadragon Flight Test, further perfecting them into Volume 20. But, even then, I don't understand why it would be lesser, nothing really alludes to it being that way. Sure, if Kirito had made a remark about how Underworld wouldn't need as much light to survive, unlike Earth in real life, this would make sense, but there's nothing like that. Not even Reki in all his random twitter word of god glory says anything like that.

Because it just wouldn't be necessary. We know the Cardinal System doesn't generate stuff that people don't actually interact with, the sun is no different and thus not obligated to output High 6-A energy.

I mean, they kinda do? It is mentioned that the Sun is "Sacred Power" which iirc from Unital Ring is just power from specific sources unlike spatial resources. The Sun being a giant sacred power/spatial resource generator plays a big part into Underworlder's daily life as it produces the things they need to live.

We know spatial resources aren't one to one with the actual IRL materials, we've seen Fanito's attacks take behavior that isn't strictly aligned with our standards on light beams, and it's always been described as like them rather than exactly them.

 

[KLOL506]

Dear God, people treating eclipses as High 6-A now?

 

[Nierre]

In freedom units please

i love you for this

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

It's inverse square law. Earth just won't be able to see a significant portion of that amount of sunlight, so it disappearing from the perspective of people there isn't going to require High 6-A energy, rather than more around 6-C (and that's assuming this effect is over the entire planet, it's Low 7-B for the underworld in particular, 7-B for our current calc since it lasted for a prolonged period)

This point only makes sense if we assume that the statement of light disappearing came from an individual character or group of people, since they'd only be aware of their immediate surroundings. But that's not the case; This is just the narration talking about all light being absorbed. So are we assuming the narrative's perspective is limited to a specific area? If so, that's kind of absurd, unless SAO bucks the trend of the omniscient narrator and explicitly places limitations on their knowledge.

If my time with SAO has taught me anything, pretty much any circumstance of something being ambiguous is Reki writing for the lower end interpretation to be taken literally. It's a pattern that's repeated pretty historically with things being described to sound extremely high Tier, only to have multiple pieces of direct evidence to show that's not literal. There's been a lot of this, but here's pretty much the origin point of that being a notable trend

I'm aware of this thread and don't particularly agree with it, mainly because one of the main pieces of evidence is a leading question on twitter. I'm very familiar with this sort of "evidence" and I dislike using it, regardless of whether it's for upgrades or downgrades.

Dear God, people treating eclipses as High 6-A now?

I'd appreciate it if you read the OP a bit more closely, because the feat is absorbing the light of the sun.

"Kirito's Night-Sky Blade had a Perfect Weapon Control art - technically, it was the higher version of that, Memory release - that absorbed the sacred power directly out of the space around it. He used that power to suck up the light of Solus and turn that vast sacred power into light elements."

It's really not that confusing. Nobody even suggested that creating an eclipse was being used for scaling here.

 

[KLOL506]

Absorption =/= tanking tho, why do you think we don't consider Superman absorbing the red solar radiation that'd be used to blow up half a galaxy

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Absorption =/= tanking tho, why do you think we don't consider Superman absorbing the red solar radiation that'd be used to blow up half a galaxy

Because this site's DC scaling is wack

For starters, I don't think anybody suggested this as a durability feat, which makes sense since Kirito presumably isn't storing this energy in his own body. If someone can absorb a specific amount of energy, then they should scale to it in AP (like this dude). I don't see a reason why manipulating an easily calculable amount of energy wouldn't scale one to that energy.

 

[CurrySenpai]

It's inverse square law. Earth just won't be able to see a significant portion of that amount of sunlight, so it disappearing from the perspective of people there isn't going to require High 6-A energy, rather than more around 6-C (and that's assuming this effect is over the entire planet, it's Low 7-B for the underworld in particular, 7-B for our current calc since it lasted for a prolonged period)

Even then, it's still an upgrade from current statistics, and I don't see why there's a reason to assume the sun just doesn't have the same output as our real life sun. The narration is directly telling us what's happen in the most direct way I have seen it, and it's not unprecedented given what Kirito's sword has done and its nature as the Night-Sky Sword.

Because it just wouldn't be necessary. We know the Cardinal System doesn't generate stuff that people don't actually interact with, the sun is no different and thus not obligated to output High 6-A energy.

Even if it wasn't necessary, there is text of Kirito referring to Underworld as a planet and comparing Lunaria to such a thing as well, and this is in line with the point the story is currently in. It's after the War of Underworld and Kirito has the Dragoncrafts built, all signs that he has ventured and expanded Underworld, even if just by a bit.

We know spatial resources aren't one to one with the actual IRL materials, we've seen Fanito's attacks take behavior that isn't strictly aligned with our standards on light beams, and it's always been described as like them rather than exactly them.

My point wasn't that they're one to one with IRL materials, my point was that they are integral to people surviving and living in Underworld. My point was that it was different and that they don't see it as a big light source, they see it as a thing to help them live and thrive.

On the topic of some WoG that may play into this, though, I have some issues with it besides the fact the person who asked the questions was banned from VSwiki for vandalizing pages such as Kirito's to lower statistics

You can look at the thread with the WoG here, but to address it:

"The current maximum size of the Underworld is one sun and two planets orbiting it."

This makes sense, there are some moons like Lunaria, but there's still Admina and Cardina. This is the size of Underworld after Star King's rule and at current.

But the thing I don't like is the idea that the other planets and sun aren't generated as of the current story, mainly cause of the claim that that stuff exists in a skybox.
"It is basically the same starry sky we see in open world games."
The only thing Reki says is part of the skybox is the stars, nothing else. Since Underworld is meant to be a real world simulation, I would not be surprised if the sun was already a thing, and not just a light source object like in blender or unity.

Absorption =/= tanking tho, why do you think we don't consider Superman absorbing the red solar radiation that'd be used to blow up half a galaxy

The point is that this is an ability that gives him a direct power up due to the power systems in Underworld with spatial resources and what not, specifically to his sword, though. This only applies physically in his final Alicization key because Kirito somewhat keeps these power ups permanently and continuously grows stronger because he stays a total of 200 years there.

 

[DMUA]

This point only makes sense if we assume that the statement of light disappearing came from an individual character or group of people, since they'd only be aware of their immediate surroundings. But that's not the case; This is just the narration talking about all light being absorbed. So are we assuming the narrative's perspective is limited to a specific area? If so, that's kind of absurd, unless SAO bucks the trend of the omniscient narrator and explicitly places limitations on their knowledge.

It does in fact not have an omniscient narrator. The most explicit example off the top of my head is how it shows Kirito's perspective and doesn't describe what's happening on Rath when he tries to contact them, you only get the stuff he hears in character before he gets mentally blasted, but it's generally a thing that the third person narration only really gives information based off what the focus character knows.

I'm aware of this thread and don't particularly agree with it, mainly because one of the main pieces of evidence is a leading question on twitter.

Well do I have the other bit of prior discussion for you. I've never agreed with how the questions are asked, but the information itself isn't inconsistent or something Reki just threw out because he wanted someone to go away.

Even then, it's still an upgrade from current statistics, and I don't see why there's a reason to assume the sun just doesn't have the same output as our real life sun.

... Actually, the dark territory is a good reason why. You just mentioned how it physically can't receive enough sunlight to really sustain itself, and it's not like it's a particularly cold region like Antarctica or the North Pole. Our IRL Sun doesn't really refuse to shine on any given area of our planet to a degree that plants just grow, it's every other factor that usually bars them from life.

Either way, you'd have to doc the results by a lot if you wanted to keep going with this.

My point wasn't that they're one to one with IRL materials, my point was that they are integral to people surviving and living in Underworld. My point was that it was different and that they don't see it as a big light source, they see it as a thing to help them live and thrive.

Yeah, and that's an association of it providing life sustaining energy, not an overwhelming level of energy in general. It doesn't really work to suggest that the sun would blip back into existence with High 6-A energy like what you initially brought it up over.