Regarding ShadowWarrior's and Corgi's bans (Staff only)

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

Corgi didn't get permabanned, only for one year. Just lettin ya know

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, I did mention that above, but I agree it should be extended to permanent.

 

[Theuser789]

I stand by Corgi's ban on the basis of harassing female staff members, I'm fine with unbanning Shadow. That said, you political folks are allowed to debate the moral and philisophical territories of their bans to your hearts content, as that isn't really something that I hold interest in. In short, go nuts, good day, etc.

Here's Bambu's

 

[Emissary_From_Hell]

"Alright, ZaStando had a lot of stuff in his Doc that doesn't have much relevance to the suspects, but I have collected a big list of scans and posted them here. Also a warning that the bottom image has NSFW image on it. I don't have download links to videos because I believe that might be dangerous to even link on Fandom.

So indeed, there's definitely a lot of toxic things Corgi has done and said. Ranging from moderate things like Calling ZaStando a big baby to worse things like A depressed African American. But far worse than that like Sexist remarks about women's anatomy and assuming all women have to have certain features in order to be legal adults rather than simply age. He also expressed extreme bigotry towards intergendered people despite initially not knowing they exist beforehand. And he also claimed that he would Kill every N word that supports women's rights. And some bigotry against Asexuals."

As I understand it, ZaStando was permabanned and therefore is no longer a part of this wiki and, as such, off-site standards should not apply to him, making him largely irrelevant. Besides, my defense document has already explained that ZaStando is neither a reliable source nor an unbiased party in this case, to frame him as some sort of victim would be far from honest.
Corgi's political views are unimportant, not to mention that obviously hyperbolic and exaggerated statements like claiming he'll "kill every n word" should be treated as just that, hyperbole. It is merely his was of expressing he feels strongly about a certain topic, not any indication he would literally do it or even support it.

"However, above all of that, Corgi also posted this video. There's no download link, and can't click to see for obvious reasons. But if someone wants to DM me via Discord, I could perhaps given a download link. And the Download link was included in ZaStando's Doc. He uploaded a **** video on what was supposed to be a non-NSFW channel in the presence of minors. Which is illegal for obvious reasons. And he later does it a second time, that actually has an image as seen in the stash at the top. Finally, we got Corgi literally telling him to go suck on a kid's T word. It's a common theme honestly; ZaStando calls Corgi and GodHand1999 "Neo-Nazis" based on their "Roleplays" of them supporting mass genocide for a wide variety of groups, and they call him "Pedophile" because he likes cute anime girls or something.

So yeah, Corgi encouraging a Pedophile act while also technically doing some himself is a good reason to keep him banned. And honestly a year doesn't sound like enough. He should be permanently banned."

Claiming others have committed crimes is a very serious accusation, it is very irresponsible to baselessly accuse others of committing a criminal offense if you're just exaggerating or are uneducated when it comes to the full context of the law. In order for sending **** to minors to be a criminal offense, the person has to be aware that they're sending **** to a minor and be doing it with the intent of arousing or seducing them.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wksexcrimes.com/illegal-to-give-****-to-a-minor/amp/

ZaStando is not a minor and Corgi was not attempting to arouse or seduce him or anyone else for that matter. Therefore no crime was committed, it was merely shitposting. Since this not an act that violates the established off-site policy, I see no reason as to why this justifies a ban let alone extending Corgi's year long ban to a permanent one.

I'll be skipping over the rest of this ZaStando business as I've already explained why it's irrelevant to this situation.

"I'm not advocating for ShadowWarrior to be permanently banned, but if you look at everything Kami said and compared it to the stuff SW said and GodHand said, it's pretty double standard for Kami to be permabanned while Shadow and GodHand aren't. ShadowWarrior has also frequently N word slurred Zamasu Chan, some random user, has also threatened ZaStando with reporting him, called ImagineBreaker some homophobic slurs alongside Corgi and Oblivion Lightning, called me this N word and a homophobic slur while mocking the Everlasting at the same time. His stash is basically KamiYasha's but bigger. And the stuff about "Neo-nazism" or "Right Wing Extremism" could be interpreted as similar to KamiYasha's Crusade remark. Although, as mentioned above. GodHand actually behaved worse."

The size of the stash in not as important as whether or not the actions are actually banworthy. KamiYasha was working to destabilize the wiki, he wasn't banned exclusively for using slurs. Also Shadow was talking about reporting a sockpuppet of ZaStando, something that is actually against the wiki's rules.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Emissary of Hell

It doesn't matter whether or not someone is permanently banned, if they still visit the wiki regularly; they're technically still part of the wiki. It's even against the rules to insult people like SeiryuShin excessively. No one was saying ZaStando was the most credible person, nor that he is unbiased, however I don't think you nor Corgi are any more reliable than he is. Especially since Antvasima has consistently called Corgi to be "The worst behaved user here." He also has persistently slurred on Fandom until other staff members had to either edit or remove his posts.

Also, there's still other stuff brought up by other people. And the staff over at Vs Central agree he should be permanently banned. He is literally no better than the likes of Misaka Mikoto nor Jonathan Lighter. Also, the scans are still there. And Corgi was fully aware that EarthyBoy was on their channel, and you guys did say he was just a kid. Also, you did read the part where Corgi literally told him to "Suck a kid's T word" right? Even encouraging a serious crime is still a crime none of the less.

Side note, he has persistently said he's 100% serious when he says those things. So honestly, we shouldn't be trusting anything he says at all. Also, size of a stash does have some significance, just not as much as the severity of their actions.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Medeus.

 

[Theuser789]

Except that server had nothing to do with the wikia, and you followed Corgi there when you were blocked there, so you stalked him to find stuff out of your way about him when you wouldn't find it normaly

Is it normal now for people to follow what people do in private, are you going to follow people in their homes to see what they say and even think if we follow them into separate off site servers?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I did not stalk Corgi, ZaStando invited me to his own server so that I could see the stuff he posts and investigate with my own eyes. And it doesn't matter if it's not on the wiki, it's still a massive reflection of his character. When ZaStando even told him there are kids on his server and that NSFW stuff isn't allowed, Corgi literally says "I don't care, lol". Also, all of those scans were in ZaStando's doc, and there's obviously a lot more. But I only grabbed ones that were worth it. Because the whole "Defending Lolicons or trying to justify himself" was agreed to be off topic.

And no, I don't go to other people's servers uninvited like what you guys have done on ZaStando's server. But we really don't need people like Corgi on our wiki.

 

[Theuser789]

That's my point, you went out of our way to go to his server to find his behavior, so you stalked him there, if Corgi actualy harassed you then you would be right, but you followed him there to find stuff, are you going into his home, his work place to see his IRL character now? Because people online are not the same, what people do in privacy is none of the interest of the wikia

Don't go saying "you guys here" as if you know anything about me and putting me in a generic group, I was invited in that server by Zastando as you did even before you, when he made the server, I have no problem with him and neither he has with me, I just don't think it's right to follow people out of your way just to get stuff to ban them

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Except it's not Corgi's home, it's ZaStando's. And it was he who asked me to look for clues and share them with the staff the stuff he did on his server. And yes, Corgi has harassed me both in DMs and on Vs Central. Though, the politics channel on Vs Central was deleted because of him so some of his scans are no longer there. But even Agnaa and Zark confirm he is literally pestering people and deliberately being malicious and trolling.

A criminal investigation is still a criminal investigation. Especially if I was given permission to investigate by the people who own the property.

 

[Theuser789]

That last part would be ban worthy, but what Corgi did on Zastando's home is Zastando's bussiness, which he already banned him for, not this wikia, and being asked for doesn't change you followed in there to find info that the wikia is not concerned for, we are not a internet police, the rules of these places should hold them

You are not a cop, and no crimes were commited, he should be punished in the server, not here, what he did there is completely irrelevant to the wikia and us

 

[Emissary_From_Hell]

"It doesn't matter whether or not someone is permanently banned, if they still visit the wiki regularly; they're technically still part of the wiki. It's even against the rules to insult people like SeiryuShin excessively. No one was saying ZaStando was the most credible person, nor that he is unbiased, however I don't think you nor Corgi are any more reliable than he is. Especially since Antvasima has consistently called Corgi to be "The worst behaved user here." He also has persistently slurred on Fandom until other staff members had to either edit or remove his posts."

Actually, no, it does matter. They're not a part of the wiki if they don't have an account they can use to contribute to it. A permaban effectively forfeits that right to be a part of the wiki. In simpler terms, If someone is permanently banned they can't be considered a user or part of the community, and as such cannot be considered a part of the wiki.
The off-site rules established as clearly stated apply to harassing other users on the wiki. Ant admitted that his comment was out of line when he said that about Corgi, so it makes no sense to be appealing to that statement he made. And how are past incidents that were already settled and not the reason Corgi was banned relevant? Beyond that, what evidence do you have that I am at all unreliable? Please stay on the topic.

"Also, there's still other stuff brought up by other people. And the staff over at Vs Central agree he should be permanently banned. He is literally no better than the likes of Misaka Mikoto nor Jonathan Lighter. Also, the scans are still there."

Mikoto and Jonathan were destabilizing the wiki by using sockpuppets and the former tried to get it hacked, things Corgi has not even remotely thought about doing. You are poisoning the well and gaslighting with baseless, highly exagerated and slanderous comparisons like these.

"And Corgi was fully aware that EarthyBoy was on their channel, and you guys did say he was just a kid."

Here, read carefully:
>the person has to be aware that they're sending **** to a minor and be doing it with the intent of arousing or seducing them.
Not only was it not sent to EarthyBoy specifically, but you lack any evidence he had the intent of arousing or seducing anyone. Even if I were to steelman you on this and we assumed he did mean it, telling someone to go commit what would be a criminal act over the internet is not a crime. In order for Corgi to have committed a crime, ZaStando would have to actually go commit the crime with Corgi directly assisting him in doing it. So, no matter how you slice it, the point is moot.

"Also, you did read the part where Corgi literally told him to "Suck a kid's T word" right? Even encouraging a serious crime is still a crime none of the less."

No, that is simply you interpreting what he said very literally because doing so benefits your narrative. What he said essentially amounts to telling someone to go "mean f word that ends with a k" themselves, it's an insult and he's taking a jab at Za Stando's "tastes", but it's still just an expression and not a command.
To imply he's "encouraging" Za Stando to do it becomes all the more nonsensical when considering that he and ZaStando don't like each other exactly because Corgi is worried Za Stando is the kind of person that would do something like this.
Again, claiming others have committed crimes is a very serious accusation, it is irresponsible to baselessly accuse others of committing a criminal offense if you're just exaggerating or are uneducated when it comes to the full context of the law. I am kindly asking that you stop doing so.

"Side note, he has persistently said he's 100% serious when he says those things. So honestly, we shouldn't be trusting anything he says at all. Also, size of a stash does have some significance, just not as much as the severity of their actions."

At best, all that proves is that he wants you to believe he's serious about these "things" (which is generalizing everything he says), not that he actually is. You don't know him, you don't know what his character is actually like. All you have to go off is your own conception of him based off of the negative experiences you've had in regards to him, your perspective is as biased as anyone else's. Either way, as I've explained before, his political opinions are irrelevant. It's much less reasonable to assume Corgi was being 100% serious here when he himself is a black man, and he even said in that very screenshot he made that comment to prove a point. Also, 5 screenshots used as evidence that a user was collaborating to destabilize the wiki is far more significant than dozens of screenshots of a user simply saying "X person is a **."

 

[Infiniverse_of_Oblivion]

The harassment in DMs isn't really excusable and I agree the attack on ZaStando's server wasn't appropriate bar being offline beef with ZaStando,Corgi,Godhand and Shadow, but I agree that Shadow at least should be let back in as on the wiki he doesn't act in a negative manner nor does he cause drama,issues or harassment.I would also like to point out said scans from these docs were already brought forward previously and to User and I's statements and likely with on Shadow's behalf were just vented phrases letting out frustration that everyone who has a long annoyed debate has,and User and I apologized publicly to the wiki for due to our frustrations which don't really have any violent or harassing intent.I'm personally fine with DDM's deduction on Shadow coming back.

 

[Antvasima]

Corgi is not being unbanned. He has behaved far too badly for that. I personally think that he should probably be blocked permanently.

 

[Theuser789]

My only problem is following people to find info on then so you can get banned, that sorta of behavior can open many bad doors, plus it's a breach of privacy

 

[Agnaa]

My only problem is following people to find info on then so you can get banned, that sorta of behavior can open many bad doors, plus it's a breach of privacy

That sort of behavior exposed the 2017 Discord issue. As long as it's done with pure intent and the member doesn't take stuff out of context or bait the user into breaking the rules, then it should be fine, and I see no reason to discourage it.

I also think y'all should stop arguing about the minutia of the claims made against Corgi. The important part for the ban is the harassment of members in DMs, you don't need to disprove what his political views are or whatever.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Because this is a public wiki where anybody can view any conversations. And it is against the rules to be harassing or trash talking anybody on the wiki. If ZaStando doesn't want his name being mentioned, then we should still respect that regardless of whether or not they're banned. Stuff like that often provoke people. And it wasn't entirely out of line, 90% of the staff here agree that Corgi is heavily problematic and that he shouldn't even be here. Even ZaStando has apologized to people for his behaivor, and Corgi literally states that he's not ever going to shape up because it's against his "Personality."

For one @Emissary of Hell, you're barely on the wiki and don't quite have any notable reputations. You do appear to be mostly here just to give your friends some FRA's. Which isn't ban worthy or malicious behaivor, but it's still suspicious. Prom and Reppuzan have both gone on record to say that constantly asking friends to give FRA's isn't really something a trust worthy person would do as that's quantity of quality and in a way an example of forming a rebellion against the staff and regulations. It's also natural for friends to downplay the severity of words spoken by their friends while exaggerating everything said against them; AKA self-fulfilling Prophecy.

There is a fine line between constructive criticism and insulting people. And there's also a different between rudeness/bluntless and borderline harassment. Telling people that they have a reputation of being the worst behaved users here or one of the worst violators of Fandom's TOS is not insulting, it's constructive criticism. Insulting people's intelligence, and resorting to name calling is insults. Calling fanbases desperate, it not harassment. Not even if the word "*******" is used. It's very rude and blunt for sure, but unless it's constant or a gang attack, it's not harassment. There's many different examples of harassment in which constantly slurring people is one of them. And also spreading gossip behind people's backs is included as an example of harassment.

Corgi still acts just as toxic and insulting as they did. And he's only increased his hostility after he got banned. I also seen him attack people on various YouTube comments. Corgi the type of person who deliberately refuses to listen to reason and is thus the type of person who should stay banned. Even Shake and several others said they can't really defend him anymore and is why they're reasonably focused on just defending ShadowWarrior. So this isn't poisoning the well or gas-lighting, this is pointing out the borderline truth.

Corgi did indeed tagged everyone on the server. Which would include the minors on the server. It's not different than some guy walking into a family friendly community (Either a church, amusement park, or fun place for kids to hang out) and dropping nudes all over the place. And no, encouraging criminal activity is indeed criminal activity. There is a reason every mainstream online community known to man has TOS that says do not encourage criminal activity. Also, a politician ordering a bombing on a bunch of civilians is enough to call those people genocidal maniacs regardless of whether or not the military decides to listen to them. Encouraging people to commit suicide still counts as the person encouraging that being a cold-blooded murderer regardless if the receiver actually does end up committing that.

Corgi should always be thinking before he says anything. And a borderline mockery telling people to suck on a child's body parts is still very serious. And Corgi's intent was to deliberate cause him and everyone on the server problems. It's like firing a gun wildly and claiming you have no intent of shooting anybody. ZaStando painting Corgi as a genocidal maniac isn't really any different in context than Corgi trying to paint ZaStando as a "Pedophile". I am not uneducated; I have graduated college and have studied both the laws of man and more spiritual laws for years.

It doesn't matter too much who knows who IRL, what does matter is that having "An odd ball sense of humor" is not an excuse to constantly harass people who don't share that same sense of humor. You guys don't even know me outside of threads Sonic related. In reality, I'm not some control freak that you guys constantly paint me as. I am one of the most active staff members here who gives input regarding many different verses; some go well and some don't go so well. And even verses that are more popular and have more arbitrary proposals don't always end up chaotic. Pritti described me best saying that I'm actually very kind to most of the community as well as very level headed regarding the balance of our system.

It is our job to monitor whether to not someone does pose a threat to the wiki. And a threat can mean a threat in a lot of different ways. Whether it's fanbases aggressively wanking their favorite verse and downplaying any verses "Opposite" of those verses. Or ganging up to attack prominent staff members who are just trying to give reasonable input regarding what is or isn't legit. A lot of things are considered destabilization. And Sera herself did say that Corgi was the only one she considered a threat and needed to be banned. And Kepekley did say that if you read between the lines of those scans recorded, he did say you could tell there was some sort of plot to destabilize the wiki.

So bottomline, Corgi is not getting unbanned. And the political views aren't the main thing making his ban. It's his extremism and harassment in DMs is the main reason. And yes, it was agreed we should stop talking about him. Side note, Privacy is about to become outdated.

 

[Theuser789]

That sort of behavior exposed the 2017 Discord issue. As long as it's done with pure intent and the member doesn't take stuff out of context or bait the user into breaking the rules, then it should be fine, and I see no reason to discourage it.

I also think y'all should stop arguing about the minutia of the claims made against Corgi. The important part for the ban is the harassment of members in DMs, you don't need to disprove what his political views are or whatever.

Then it's fine, I was mostly refering to the bait part and all, that people could use it to find things to just get someone banned

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Medeus. We should permanently ban Corgi and stop talking about him.

Discussing Shadow is more reasonable.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Someone should Permaban corgi then

 

[AKM sama]

My conclusion is that ShadowWarrior should be unbanned since he did not violate any rules except for possibly telling Corgi to troll Zamasu which would only be a minor violation if it can even be seen as a violation since Zamasu did not get trolled to my knowledge.

Trying to use a toxic user to target wiki members for furthering one's own means is NOT minor.

I agree with increasing Corgi's ban duration to infinite looking at his repeated actions that other members have pointed out above. He clearly has no intention of shaping up.

EDIT: I have done so.

 

[Greenshifter]

Wow wow, so first I need to wait a week to make this thread and then suddenly Corgi gets permabanned overnight. Give me a few hours I'll look into all Corgi's mishaps and summarize what he did against the rules and what he didn't. There is also some evidence regarding Zark that I haven't used.

 

[Greenshifter]

Shadow using Corgi to target Zamasu is minor because Corgi doesn't really troll when messaging people (he can harass sometimes but that's not really trolling) so that part is already wrong, second I don't think Cal had any complaints about Corgi in his DM's so Zamasu probably wouldn't have any either if Corgi had done the same thing he did to Cal and lastly, Corgi didn't even troll Zamasu from what I have been told so there is nothing that happened against the rules in the first place.

 

[Theuser789]

Shadow is literaly friends with Zamasu in another server, he never targeted him, he was just going to talk to him at best, you can even ask the "victim" yourself

 

[Theuser789]

This is the problem with out of context screencaps, people make assumptions without knowing anything about either character

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I think that there are too many instances of Corgi being an extremist massive jerk for us to have misunderstood the contexts completely in this case. Shadow may have been punished enough already though.

 

[The_Impress]

Apparently Greenshifter has some evidence regarding me which I am curious in seeing however, so he may post it.

 

[Greenshifter]

The thing is that Corgi is capable of keeping his extremist massive jerk opinions off-site and the instances of him actually targeting someone off-site who actually is a member of VSBW wiki is very limited and that generally Corgi does not have malicious intent when starting the conversation.

 

[GrathOfLux]

(he can harass sometimes but that's not really trolling)

Look, I'll be frank. There's a lot more to mention here, but I have to point out this part. If you're outright admitting that he's harassing people, and he's very blatantly shown no signs of relenting or preventing this behaviour in the future, then that alone shows he doesn't have any place here.

 

[Greenshifter]

I do have class today so it will probably be evening by the time I can build a case so I would like a little patience.

 

[Greenshifter]

@Darkgrath How are you sure that Corgi shows no signs of relenting?

 

[Agnaa]

The thing is that Corgi is capable of keeping his extremist massive jerk opinions off-site and the instances of him actually targeting someone off-site who actually is a member of VSBW wiki is very limited and that generally Corgi does not have malicious intent when starting the conversation.

>very limited

I'd consider harassing 3 separate people to be well beyond my bar for "very limited".

>he doesn't have malicious intent when starting the conversation.

From what I've seen of the DMs, yes he does.

 

[Greenshifter]

Anyways I'll be going over the scans this evening, I'm mainly talking about Zark's scan where he seems caring at first. His intent is somewhat dubious sure but it's not really clear that he wanted to go ahead and say that women have are oversensitive et etc. when starting the conversation. It could be but it's not clear, Corgi also has admitted in private that what he did with Zark was wrong so I wouldn't say that there are no signs of him preventing said behavior in the future.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, we are not unbanning Corgi. Period. It would cause problems and set a very bad precedent. You should drop this issue and focus on the behaviour of Shadow instead.

 

[Agnaa]

His intent is somewhat dubious sure but it's not really clear that he wanted to go ahead and say that women have are oversensitive et etc. when starting the conversation.

That was his second ******* message dude, what do you mean that wasn't his intent? **** off with this sophistry.

 

[Greenshifter]

Ant I am going to focus on getting a just ban for Corgi, be it 0 days or a permaban. Also nobody says we have to unban him now, if it's 9 months or a year or whatever that he deserves then so be it. But I'd like to figure out what he deserves exactly first.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree that the blindsided apologism is starting to get ridiculous, given how extreme Corgi actually is.

 

[Greenshifter]

@Agnaa I'm saying that Corgi could have been actually concerned with Zark and only after decided to insert a shitty political opinion.

 

[Antvasima]

@Greenshifter

You will be wasting your and our time if you continue. As I said, we are not unbanning Corgi. He is way too extreme for that, and it would set a very bad precedent.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Just to let you guys know, ShadowWarrior never harassed me on VBW or on discord. All we ever did was get into heated debates.