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Regarding ShadowWarrior's and Corgi's bans (Staff only)

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Hello everyone, as you may have noticed there are now standards for off-site behavior as determined in this thread (you can also find them on the Site Rules) and I would like to re-evaluate the reasons for Shadow's and Corgi's bans to see how they line up with the new standards.

The main reasons for them being banned ca be found withi these screenshots. As well as Corgi's negative behavior against ZaStando and several users, one of which being Sera.

I will now go over my list to determine whether ShadowWarrior and Corgi did any actions that are against the site rules:

Actions that lead to the destabilization of the site (such as videos, forum posts, Discord chats, etc. that create drama), whether or not it was systematic.

ShadowWarrior and Corgi did not create drama according to Sera's definition of drama outlined here, she even goes as far as to say that the 2019 Discord "drama" did not affect the site in any significantly negative way and that the only thing that happened was a couple RVTs got flooded with drama that was no one else's business but those who disagreed with each other in the first place. As such ShadowWarrior and Corgi did not destabilize the site and they also did not plot to destabilize it.

Threatening someone off-site, be it a threat of violence, hacking, doxxing, sexual harassment, etc.

Corgi and ShadowWarrior did not threaten anyone.

Harassment of users in their immediate surrounding (ex. Someone constantly messaging you with insulting comments via DMs or PMs)

First things first: All screenshots of Shadow and Corgi slurring and insulting staff and regular members within the confines of their private Discord server are completely irrelevant since they did not happen within the immediate surrounding of the target of said insults. For ShadowWarrior there is a screenshot within link 2 where he tells Corgi to troll Zamasu Chan, just like he did to Cal. This could be seen as co-operating in harassment, however Corgi still has a choice to not do this at this point and it turns out that he did not and only talked about Sonic with Zamasu. Zamasu also did not report his conversation with Corgi as harassment to my knowledge. The conversations with other members seemed to go pretty normal (I don't have any info on what happened with Cal and possibly Mr. Bambu however) and with DDM he mainly talked about Sonic, albeit a bit rude (ex. Why do you downplay Sonic instead of saying I have a feeling you downplay Sonic). Corgi even said he was not attacking Medeus within the screenshot, granted I might have only seen part of the conversation so if it escalated then that can be brought up here. With ZaStando he made some statements that are very questionable, however he did not harass ZaStando that way and he also did not mean anything from those statements.

Engaging in online criminal activity (Not including piracy).

Corgi and ShadowWarrior did not engage in online criminal activity.

Impersonating someone for malicious purposes.

Corgi and ShadowWarrior did not impersonate anyone.

For further info and scans you can read the full defense document here.

My conclusion is that ShadowWarrior should be unbanned since he did not violate any rules except for possibly telling Corgi to troll Zamasu which would only be a minor violation if it can even be seen as a violation since Zamasu did not get trolled to my knowledge. Corgi probably warrants more discussion but for now I do not see anything against him either.
 
As before, I don't support their ban, and hence would rather have them unbanned.
 
I stand by Corgi's ban on the basis of harassing female staff members, I'm fine with unbanning Shadow. That said, you political folks are allowed to debate the moral and philisophical territories of their bans to your hearts content, as that isn't really something that I hold interest in. In short, go nuts, good day, etc.
 
Oh, I didn't realize. Since Corgi directly sent shitty messages to people he should stay banned, but I'd still stick with Shadow being unbanned.
 
Euhm, who did Corgi harass? It wasn't Sera from what I've seen and it also wasn't Zark. Don't forget that since this is a ban based on off-site behavior there needs to be an abundance of evidence so that there is practically no doubt to ban someone.
 
To be fair I wouldn't say harass exactly, Corgi purposely only direct messaged me at like, let's say emotionally vulnerable times, with baitey shit and general lectures of how my sex was inept and "Females can only think emotionally so you ******* up was expected". I didn't get affected, sure, I've heard far worse, but it still is a dick move to kick folks when they're down.

Alongside that the thing to note was that he was already banned from the Moritzva server so he couldn't know nonetheless, so he was purposely asking his "informant" for info like that.

So yeah it isn't directly harassment and kinda speculative intent, but he was a creep regardless IMO.

In terms of "abundance of evidence" I provided it on Discord with plenty of folks having access to it, including multiple staff members, so.
 
Sera and Zark in DMs. Such as the stuff Zark just described, which I would consider direct harassment, actually. Even if Zark wasn't affected I'm pretty sure it had that intent (I don't think Zark and Corgi were close friends with that sort of relationship, as far as I remember).

There was also some "women are below men" comments in Moritzva's server (which has women in it). Since he was banned from that server his messages were deleted too so these can't be found, so I can attest to them but evidence is gone.
 
Hmmm, Corgi probably only gave me the last part where you guys seemed to get along sort of. That does seem pretty bad on Corgi's end, I don't know if that alone is worth 9 months tho if it's a mild form of harassment.
 
I don't have good judgement for timeframes, but I think that Corgi definitely violated the rules and Shadow didn't.
 
I can still provide screenshots of my conversations to be honest, and just FYI, I didn't know the guy, and definitely wasn't a friend or something, so him messaging me was really bizarre.
 
Greenshifter said:
Hmmm, Corgi probably only gave me the last part where you guys seemed to get along sort of. That does seem pretty bad on Corgi's end, I don't know if that alone is worth 9 months tho if it's a mild form of harassment.
If you consider me not straight up banning him for assholery at that point as "getting along" you're sorely mistaken lol, I banned no one at that point.

Also it's moreso the intent IMO, frankly I could care less, but at the end of the day some precious snowflake who was suicidal that day was at the receiving end of his "views about how women are solely emotionally operating people who are incapable of understanding and doing humour and how you're a bitch whose life is a joke controlled by corporate ***** alongside your sexuality being abnormal and an abomination who hampers societal progress" , actually legit summary of his talks with me who was just recovering from a bipolar episode, yeahhhhh he needs 9 months to regrow braincells on how other folks can have problems and sometimes it ain't right to pathetically shill your views
 
No the getting along part was after he had been banned my bad. Well I think screenshots to determine how long he should be banned isn't a bad idea.
 
The length of time someone is banned for should always be based on how long we think it will take for them to understand the error of their actions and to be willing to fix it.

It should either be a few months at most if we believe that Corgi could improve his behaviour, or indefinite if we don't.
 
I mean to be fair I legitimately don't think he will, it isn't like he was remorseful or anything, on the flipside he called the VSBW staff as oversensitive from my talks with him post-ban, and somewhat revels in his own ban.
 
In that case, I'm frankly on the side of giving him a permanent ban. If his behaviour isn't acceptable here, and he shows no signs of improving it in the period of time where he is banned, then there's no point to letting him back on the wiki at all.
 
For what it's worth I don't think Corgi has done anything bad after he was banned and he does seem to have toned down a bit. I only share 2 chat groups with him however.
 
I was supposed to comment last night, but got tied up. And barely have enough time to read my 30+ notifications this morning but have a lot more time tonight and tomorrow. So I'll elaborate with scans then.

Corgi definitely needs to stay banned, and possibly permanently. In addition to things others mentioned, he actually "Did" attack me. It may not have been the worst thing he said, but the way he said them was still enough to be considered an "attack". And you shouldn't take his word if he claims he wasn't attacking, he still came to my DM to immediately yell and cuss at me when most people would start with casual conversations not regarding to Vs Debating. That's pretty much how Sera describes Corgi; self fulfilling prophecy is kind of a bread and butter for his character.

Furthermore, I have seen him on ZaStando's server. He's actually done things that would definitely be considered "criminal activity", such as uploading **** on family friendly channel where minors were present. And he's constantly told him to "Go suck a kid's T***y"

I don't have too many things against ShadowWarrior, but I will elaborate on some details and comparisons to others when I come back to give my elaborate take.
 
I know this is a Staff Only thread, but I've been in cahoots with this process of getting Shadow unbanned so I'll just reiterate it.

Shadow has done nothing within the standards we set up for off-site stuff. Do comparisons to others if you want, bring out everything you have in the screenshots from Discord, but his case stays the same and any amount of elaboration on it does nothing to change that.
 
I definitely don't want to unban Corgi, but am neutral/not well informed about Shadow.
 
Alright, ZaStando had a lot of stuff in his Doc that doesn't have much relevance to the suspects, but I have collected a big list of scans and posted them here. Also a warning that the bottom image has NSFW image on it. I don't have download links to videos because I believe that might be dangerous to even link on Fandom.

So indeed, there's definitely a lot of toxic things Corgi has done and said. Ranging from moderate things like Calling ZaStando a big baby to worse things like A depressed African America. But far worse than that like Sexist remarks about women's anatomy and assuming all women have to have certain features in order to be legal adults rather than simply age. He also expressed extreme bigotry towards intergendered people despite initially not knowing they exist beforehand. And he also claimed that he would Kill every N word that supports women's rights. And some bigotry against Asexuals.

However, above all of that, Corgi also posted this video. There's no download link, and can't click to see for obvious reasons. But if someone wants to DM me via Discord, I could perhaps given a download link. And the Download link was included in ZaStando's Doc. He uploaded a **** video on what was supposed to be a non-NSFW channel in the presence of minors. Which is illegal for obvious reasons. And he later does it a second time, that actually has an image as seen in the stash at the top. Finally, we got Corgi literally telling him to go suck on a kid's T word. It's a common theme honestly; ZaStando calls Corgi and GodHand1999 "Neo-Nazis" based on their "Roleplays" of them supporting mass genocide for a wide variety of groups, and they call him "Pedophile" because he likes cute anime girls or something.

So yeah, Corgi encouraging a Pedophile act while also technically doing some himself is a good reason to keep him banned. And honestly a year doesn't sound like enough. He should be permanently banned.

Bacchus, aka GodHand has also been doing some toxic stuff albeit to a much lesser extent than Corgi. It's mostly more "Pedophile Vs Neo-Nazi wars." And yeah, about that... I really don't want to get involved in what's going on here. People are constantly posting images of girls that look young followed by the phrase "Would you F this girl?" I really don't even need to explain what's wrong with contexts like that. Even constantly spamming that is bad to the point where the whole debate about whether or not ZaStando is a "Pedophile" is becoming less relevant. That's definitely some serious shit, but the point is; if there's truly a pedophile on a server, you don't just feed them by showing them images of youthful faces, you should be trying to them away from that stuff.

I don't know who Jangles or Timius are, or if they even have Fandom accounts. But they do have a little stash here from ZaStando's YouTube video. It's mostly stuff already known and other things not considered relevant. But someone there actually did upload an image of an actual minor there. And there's an explanation for why that's wrong.

Now as for ShadowWarrior, I don't have too many new strikes against him. His worst insult was just calling ZaStando the B word to his face. But that's far from the worst thing he said and was already known. However, let's compare him to KamiYasha; who is permanently banned and even IMade considers him one of the three who should stay banned. Besides Fllflourine and BlueDash for obvious reasons.

This is KamiYasha's complete stash looking at the thread. His 1st scan was him calling Kepekley a 4 letter C word used to slur those who support women's rights (Something ShadowWarrior has said regularly). 2nd scan was calling Dragon Master an "A**istic N word." One of the main highlighted reasons for his permanent block as seen in the OP of the thread. 3rd scan was just a minor thing of him laughing at Matt supporters. And the 4th and final scan is the infamous one. He posted a private scan of a PM with Antvasima, and said he was going to "Go on a Crusade against the Muslims if he banned Matt." And all of that together was considered enough for a global ban.

I'm not advocating for ShadowWarrior to be permanently banned, but if you look at everything Kami said and compared it to the stuff SW said and GodHand said, it's pretty double standard for Kami to be permabanned while Shadow and GodHand aren't. ShadowWarrior has also frequently N word slurred Zamasu Cha, some random user, has also threatened ZaStando with reporting him, called ImagineBreaker some homophobic slurs alongside Corgi and Oblivion Lightning, called me this N word and a homophobic slur while mocking the Everlasting at the same time. His stash is basically KamiYasha's but bigger. And the stuff about "Neo-nazism" or "Right Wing Extremism" could be interpreted as similar to KamiYasha's Crusade remark. Although, as mentioned above. GodHand actually behaved worse.

Overall, I'm not against's ShadowWarrior's ban being lifted, but he really should DM me on Discord and apologize for everything he said if he wants to be unbanned. And has indeed encourage some behaivor from time to time. GodHand has admittedly done more ban worthy stuff. But Corgi absolutely should be banned permanently.
 
@DDM I heard that KamiYasha got banned for plotting to destabilize the wiki. Is this not true?

Even without that, KamiYasha's ban could be justified over the instigating drama clause, which that situation met and this recent one doesn't for reasons Sera outlined here and a large majority of people agreed with.
 
I'm aware of the outlining. And also, Kepekley did say offsite that some scans were indeed horrible and ban worthy. But he mostly complained by how disorganized all of them were just thrown in and that I was "Too involved".

KamiYasha did go to VSTF after he was banned. And it was mostly BlueDash and Fllflourine who did the excessive destabilization. Though, I did look at some scans make by others; apparently Knight had one scan of encouraging people to make socks as did Grudgeman.
 
I'm just trying to say that all of that stuff I mentioned are likely the main violations we'd use to justify KamiYasha's ban now, which Shadow doesn't have an equivalent of.
 
Everyone in the previous Discord group had "Doxxing, Systemic Harassment, and Plotting to destablize the wiki" in their ban reasons. But now only Fllflourine has the doxxing part. But the scans I linked in KamiYasha's stash are all we saw from him as far as I know. Not sure if saying he'll "Go on a Crusade against the Muslims if you ban Matt" was considered plotting to destabilize the wiki.
 
Then I don't see why he continues to be banned.

But since that ban hasn't been evaluated by our new criteria, could we not use it as a reference point, and instead use the new criteria that was overwhelmingly agreed to?
 
None of the things listed are even relevant to the wikia nor they actualy break any of the rules listed, this is more of a breach of privacy from stalking him in several servers and personal problems

I agree with Shadow being unbanned, he doesn't break any of the rules listed, looking for what he says in a private server is your own problem because you are the one who looked for this, almost being stalker like behavior

About Corgi I don't have much to say, he going into people's DM's does break the rules, but what he does in a random server is not relevant to the wikia
 
Yeah, this is why Corgi going into DM's is bad, but DDM followed Corgi into Zastando's server, he was there before him
 
People should really learn to secure their discord servers if they plan to say things like this. But from what I can see here unless I missed something they were perma-banned for shit talking and "harassment" in their server?

I don't see how shit talking in private is such a big deal, people do it all the time on the internet everywhere you go. I think I did see some racism in that discord screenshot which is disturbing.

Unless they were going to do something really bad on the wiki, I don't think those two should be perma-banned. This is like a really fine line, people gonna start going through every discord chat looking for dirt on anyone they can.
 
Going by Medeus's explanation, I think that Corgi should remain permanently banned, but am not sure for how long Shadow should be blocked.

KamiYasha and his friends were systematically causing lots of drama in the wiki as a group unit, and were tearing down its stability and making the working conditions very difficult for the rest of the staff at a time when the wiki was already in severe disarray thanks to The Everlasting situation and other issues. It is possible that a few mostly innocent members of the group were caught in the crossfire though, given that we had to use drastic actions to save the wiki, and couldn't properly work out all of the specifics.
 
I would appreciate if the staff members here clarify what they think that we should do with Shadow.
 
Okay. I would appreciate a few direct answers from the staff though.
 
I'd also prefer to hear input from other staff members first; AKM Sama has a great sense of judgment regarding offsite actions and comparisons. I also think Matt has a right to give his opinion on the matter since he was also one of their targets.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Overall, I'm not against's ShadowWarrior's ban being lifted, but he really should DM me on Discord and apologize for everything he said if he wants to be unbanned. And has indeed encourage some behaivor from time to time. GodHand has admittedly done more ban worthy stuff. But Corgi absolutely should be banned permanently.
 
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