Regarding "Pseudo Legendaries"

[The_real_cal_howard]

This is something that's been bugging me for a LONG time. And by that, I'm talking about how they don't scale for reasons being like, "It's not an official term" and such. I wanna shut down all the reasons why people don't think they scale.

"Stats aren't used for tiering"

Under normal circumstances, I'd agree wholeheartedly. Stats are the bane for Pokemon tiering. However, this isn't just stat scaling. This is Nintendo's way of showing which Pokemon are the best of the best without being legendaries or Megas.

"It's just a coincidence"

It's clearly not. There's one, two at the most, Pokemon like that per generation. That fit this perfectly. Flygon isn't one. Volcarona isn't one. Slaking isn't one. Lucario isn't one. Zoroark isn't one. Haxorus isn't one. It's a very exclusive category. The term existed for a long while now. Like, at least a decade, long. Every single one of these Pokemon are feared/revered. Dragonite is treated as a legendary. Metagross is used to fight them. People are scared s***less of Tyranitar, Garchomp, Hydreigon, and Kommo-o. Goodra is the only exception. Nintendo making Pokmeon that perfectly fix this mold is normal. All are used by a champion. Dragonite, Lance. Tyranitar, Blue. Metagross, Steven. Salamence, Lance (and Drake, but E4 member). Garchomp, I don't even need to say. Hydregion, Iris (and Ghetsis). Goodra, Diantha. Even the new Kommo-o is used by Champion challenger Ryuki.

"It's not an official term"

Neither is Saiyan Beyond God. And we don't wanna open up that book again. Just because it doesn't have a name doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just look at "The Gentle Pull" for Mario. Speculation much greater than this or over-analyzing exists here, and I'm pretty sure some of it makes it into tier 1.

Bottom line, Dragonite, Salamence, Metagross, Garchomp, Hydreigon, Goodra, and Kommo-o should all scale to Tyranitar.

 

[Man_from_Shadow]

I agree with this if add "Possibly" before the tier/AP.

 

[FTW395]

Isn't Slaking stronger than these Pseudo-legendaries though?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Isn't Slaking stronger than these Pseudo-legendaries though?

Stat wise only. Plus it isn't as feared as these guys. Slaking is like your everyday pokemon no one gives a crap about.

 

[FTW395]

@Dragonmasterxyz then what are you basing these group of Pseudo-legendaries on? Because they're feared? Gyarados is also feared, doesn't make him Pseudo-legendary though.

 

[Landon_Avery]

@Dragonmasterxyz then what are you basing these group of Pseudo-legendaries on? Because they're feared? Gyarados is also feared, doesn't make him Pseudo-legendary though.

So is Bewear for that matter.

 

[Ghostly_Owns]

This I support. They are all clearly shown to be at the top of the non-legendary bunch, and are more or less shown to be comparable to the legendaries consistently across virtually all media. They may not be stronger per se, but they are strong enough to fight them and not turn out to be a total ROFLstomp.

And if you want to scale via stats, they are solidly at the level of legendaries, and are even stronger than some other legendaries.

 

[Landon_Avery]

ROFLstomp

???

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Dragonmasterxyz then what are you basing these group of Pseudo-legendaries on? Because they're feared? Gyarados is also feared, doesn't make him Pseudo-legendary though.

Read the OP. Look up Pseudo Legendary.

 

[FTW395]

@Dragonmasterxyz The bulbapedia wiki states the pseudo-legendary title is given to Pokemon with a 600 total Base stat (that obviously aren't legendary). The wiki lists a couple of other reason too but they all boil down to game mechanics and thus can't be used to scale Pokemon.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

You would say that wouldn't you. Cal already addressed that in the OP.

 

[FTW395]

You would say that wouldn't you. Cal already addressed that in the OP.

So what? His reasoning isn't accurate "People in the Elite 4 use them", "The Pokemon are feared", "Dragonite is treated as a legendary"(So is arcanine),"People are scared shitless of them" Have already touched on this in my previous post.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

"People in the Elite 4 use them"

Showing that they are mean't to be the biggest threat on the team. Seeing as they are usually the aces of the final bosses.

""The Pokemon are feared"

Just adds justification to their power. Not much, but a little.

""Dragonite is treated as a legendary"(So is arcanine)"

Except Arcanine isn't. He is another run of the mill pokemon in universe. See how every Police officer either has a growlithe or Arcanine. Heck, they are so common that they are pets. They are pretty much in the same psoition as Slaking. They aren't rare in the slightest.

"People are scared shitless of them"

Basically addressed above. Again adding a little bit of Justification.

I really could careless if this goes through. So you should take this up with the OP.I already adressed what I thought in this thread.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Cal its really hard to agree with you when you contradict yourself twice times in the OP.

• Used stats to justify the connection:Proceeds to use a Pokemon whos stats are above the Pseudos and say he doesnt scale.

• Says everyone of them is feared:Uses Gyarados one of the most feared as an example of who doesnt scale.

Also SBG is a bad example because its something that acknowledged by thing like dokkan battle.

While i sorta think they scale I really dont like the reasoning for it because straight we have more evidence Arcanine scales than anyone else, than we have Dragon saying since Slaking isnt scary so he doesnt scale which already throws Goodra under the bus.

For now i'll wait for more input before taking a stance.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Rad to be honest. I always forget about Goodra. But of course like I said my stance on this is neutral. Also I never said Slaking wasn't scary. It is just that it is more common than the pseudos. But of course I'm like you as in being neutral to this,

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I have to disgree with this.

I mean, I would like to give more respect for this powerful beasties, but the reasoning and justification for it, doesn't work for me.


However, I think that Arcanine scaling from other fire type like camerupt is ok

 

[FTW395]

@AidenBrooks999 how does same type give any justification towards scaling whatsoever?

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Arcanine has a "status of legendary"

At least that makes it the strongest fire type, but not neccesaryly the strongest not-legendart

 

[FTW395]

Arcanine has a "status of legendary"

Ah so another person confirms that he's sorta a "pseudo-legendary" as one could say thanks for confirming that. Which quite literally means that the only reason Arcanine doesn't get treated as a pseudo-legendary is because he doesn't have the 600 base stat total. Growlithe is also still quite rare, only appearing a lot in Kanto or Johto.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

^And Unova and Alola. And Hoenn post game. But if ya'll want to scale Arcanine then go ahead. However this is off-topic for this thread. This is about Pseudo's.

 

[FTW395]

@Dragonmasterxyz before dropping this discussion with you I would just like to say that when looking at the game locations, dratini is actually more common than growlithe (not counting the % rate it has of popping up in the wild).

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

This is extremely arbitrary if we are going to add random Pokémon and not count some PL like Goodra. I disagree

 

[SomebodyData]

I have to disagree, for reasons including Arcanine and the sheer lack of any relative scaling (It would be like scaling all the baby Pokemon or Legendaries together and unlike pseudo-legendaries, these are actual official terms)

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Dragonmasterxyz before dropping this discussion with you I would just like to say that when looking at the game locations, dratini is actually more common than growlithe (not counting the % rate it has of popping up in the wild).

Common does not mean areas in game. It means percentage and rate of being found. Dratini by encounter rates is much rarer.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Anyway it seems as though everyone disagrees here. Should I close this or wait for cal?

 

[Cropfist]

Disagree for reasons above.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yeah..sorry but i have to disagree as well

 

[Darkmon_cns]

i disagree for reasons above.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Meh. Sorry, m8. I feel like this isn't good enough justification. Even game stats slightly disagree, which is funny cause we disregard those anyway. Even the noncanon says no. lol