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He didn't, he said "I'm at my full strength" sure, but that was back with when he was fighting SSB Goku, not the last punch. He also said it against Goku when he was SSJ2 as well and when he was barely about to transform to SSB.
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Regarding Gohan's 3-A Rating
- Thread starter Dragonmasterxyz
- Start date
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Indeed we do.
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So... Which version do we take seriously... ?
In all seriousness, i did agree with the fact it should wait until the tournament to see if Gohan truly is 3-A . I just wanted to see if there was a possibility to have a placeholder until the tournament, then remove it ( or keep it ) once MORE evidence is provided to comfortably place him in 3-A, or take it away . While it does [a little bit ] , it is so iffy it is not even funny.
In all seriousness, i did agree with the fact it should wait until the tournament to see if Gohan truly is 3-A . I just wanted to see if there was a possibility to have a placeholder until the tournament, then remove it ( or keep it ) once MORE evidence is provided to comfortably place him in 3-A, or take it away . While it does [a little bit ] , it is so iffy it is not even funny.
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We might as well downgrade the super characters into at least (insert previous tier here), likely higher.
My opinion has been changed since this after reading into this more.
Should we start the downgrades now?
My opinion has been changed since this after reading into this more.
Should we start the downgrades now?
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- Thread starter
- #127
We are downgrading Gohan for now.
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- Thread starter
- #129
I believe the #17 stuff had different stuff going for it. I think we should worry about Gohan for now.
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As silly as 17 being 3-A is in context he atleast had a proper fight with SSB goku, unlike Gohan which lasted about 5 seconds.
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our gohan is back
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Piccolo was could somewhat keep up with Ultimate Gohan. SSJ2 Goku fought evenly with Gohan. Piccolo stated something in 88 about Gohan not being as strong.
Gohan should be downgraded, for now at least.
17 is fine since he shitstomped regular Goku and forced him transform where as Gohan had to ask.
Gohan should be downgraded, for now at least.
17 is fine since he shitstomped regular Goku and forced him transform where as Gohan had to ask.
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17 forcing Goku to transform just means that he's far above SSJ3. And yeah, Gohan needs to be downgraded.RadicalMrR said:
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I disagree with downgrading both Android 17 or Gohan because you people consider it PIS or inconsistent. Both fights happened.
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I don't see how "both fights happened" is an argument against PIS?
But I'm not considering Gohan vs Goku as an inconsistency, I'm just saying in context it shows that Goku was still holding back to an unknown degree in SSB (hence should not scale), up until the final punch was made which one shot Gohan.
But I'm not considering Gohan vs Goku as an inconsistency, I'm just saying in context it shows that Goku was still holding back to an unknown degree in SSB (hence should not scale), up until the final punch was made which one shot Gohan.
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Also, about the argument for their not being a huge difference between SSJ2 and SSB:
There really isn't, considering that going by what happens in the plot Base Goku is Universal since he absorbed his power in Base as a Super Saiyan God. That's the entire logic behind Super Saiyan Blue, "A Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God transforms into a Super Saiyan".
The difference between Base Goku and Super Saiyan Blue Goku is more like thousands of times, rather than quadrillions.
There really isn't, considering that going by what happens in the plot Base Goku is Universal since he absorbed his power in Base as a Super Saiyan God. That's the entire logic behind Super Saiyan Blue, "A Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God transforms into a Super Saiyan".
The difference between Base Goku and Super Saiyan Blue Goku is more like thousands of times, rather than quadrillions.
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Also. Guys, what happens in the fight can be very easily interpreted, just look at it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKmqJk2NhQc
At first they are matching each other normally, with Ultimate Gohan vs Super Saiyan 2. Then here come the people say
"Oh, but if SSJ2 Goku is matching Gohan, he can't later match SSB, it's PIS!"
Yeah, not really.
They are both clearly holding back. Yes, they may look to be serious, but this is very common in Dragon Ball.
Goku vs Freeza: Both opponents were holding back tremendously during most of their fight, yet by visuals alone they appeared dead serious.
Goku vs Cell: Both were sparring and holding back a lot, yet without dialogue you wouldn't tell.
Similar thing happens here.
At 1:25, Goku screams: "Gohan, release more power!"
So up until then Gohan was holding back.
At 1:45, Gohan gets more serious and hits Goku with a punch to the gut that by Goku's expression was really painful. Then he continues to beat the shit out of Super Saiyan 2 Goku.
At 2:00, after kicking Goku's ass, he says: "Get serious, dad!"
Goku does get more serious and they match each other briefly.
And at 2:20, he says it again: "Please get serious, dad!", and then quickly overpowers Goku again. Gohan powers up to 100%, indicated by the sudden aura he gains. He says "Fight me at full strength! At full strength! See my full strength!",screaming "This is my full strength!", to which Goku replies by going Super Saiyan Blue.
So no, Goku WASN'T holding back when he went SSB there. To suggest that he was would be to ignore the fight's entire context.
At 2:50, we see the result of Goku and Gohan clashing, both at 100%.
Gohan punches Goku, then Goku punches Gohan again. Then Gohan exclaims again "At my full strength!", dashing. Goku punches Gohan, and it doesn't do jack shit. Gohan punches Goku away, who goes Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken. And only the does Goku stop being matched and surpassed by Gohan's strength.
Gohan with his Unleashed Potential is universal. He is stronger than Base Super Saiyan Blue Goku.
This is what's shown in the episode. Being Universal in Dragon Ball isn't special anymore. The supposed massive gap between tiers is not something that the plot cares for, and neither should you.
To suggest that Gohan simply can't be Super Saiyan Blue level is to ignore the entire context of Gohan Unlocking his Potential (Which Vegeta and Goku both stated in previous episodes is greater than theirs).
Gohan is Super Saiyan Blueberry level.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKmqJk2NhQc
At first they are matching each other normally, with Ultimate Gohan vs Super Saiyan 2. Then here come the people say
"Oh, but if SSJ2 Goku is matching Gohan, he can't later match SSB, it's PIS!"
Yeah, not really.
They are both clearly holding back. Yes, they may look to be serious, but this is very common in Dragon Ball.
Goku vs Freeza: Both opponents were holding back tremendously during most of their fight, yet by visuals alone they appeared dead serious.
Goku vs Cell: Both were sparring and holding back a lot, yet without dialogue you wouldn't tell.
Similar thing happens here.
At 1:25, Goku screams: "Gohan, release more power!"
So up until then Gohan was holding back.
At 1:45, Gohan gets more serious and hits Goku with a punch to the gut that by Goku's expression was really painful. Then he continues to beat the shit out of Super Saiyan 2 Goku.
At 2:00, after kicking Goku's ass, he says: "Get serious, dad!"
Goku does get more serious and they match each other briefly.
And at 2:20, he says it again: "Please get serious, dad!", and then quickly overpowers Goku again. Gohan powers up to 100%, indicated by the sudden aura he gains. He says "Fight me at full strength! At full strength! See my full strength!",screaming "This is my full strength!", to which Goku replies by going Super Saiyan Blue.
So no, Goku WASN'T holding back when he went SSB there. To suggest that he was would be to ignore the fight's entire context.
At 2:50, we see the result of Goku and Gohan clashing, both at 100%.
Gohan punches Goku, then Goku punches Gohan again. Then Gohan exclaims again "At my full strength!", dashing. Goku punches Gohan, and it doesn't do jack shit. Gohan punches Goku away, who goes Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken. And only the does Goku stop being matched and surpassed by Gohan's strength.
Gohan with his Unleashed Potential is universal. He is stronger than Base Super Saiyan Blue Goku.
This is what's shown in the episode. Being Universal in Dragon Ball isn't special anymore. The supposed massive gap between tiers is not something that the plot cares for, and neither should you.
To suggest that Gohan simply can't be Super Saiyan Blue level is to ignore the entire context of Gohan Unlocking his Potential (Which Vegeta and Goku both stated in previous episodes is greater than theirs).
Gohan is Super Saiyan Blueberry level.
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Look, If A guy is only able to destroy a bulding, but then after THREE hours of traning destroys the universe, that is stupid. But guess what, it still happened. We are not debating how stupid these feats are, we are only debating if they actually happened.
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Seiya goes from High 6-A to 4-A in one minute of screaming and fist-clenching. Then later in the manga he goes to 3-C to High 3-A with similar effort.
And what about all the Visual Novels where the protagonist jumps to 1-A by the end?
Or Gurren Lagann, where Simon who was Tier 9 suddenly matching a Low 2-C in the end because of Spiral Power?
Power Boosts should be judged by their context in the story, not by the gap between Tiers.
A writer has Planetary characters in his story, but now he wants to amp the stakes higher. What's he going to do? He would probably think of the next big thing. A star, maybe. He would choose Stellar destruction simply because it's the next big thing that can be blown up, he wouldn't care about the great gap in raw Destructive Power. And he wouldn't care again if he later made the characters go from Star level to Galaxy levle.
And what about all the Visual Novels where the protagonist jumps to 1-A by the end?
Or Gurren Lagann, where Simon who was Tier 9 suddenly matching a Low 2-C in the end because of Spiral Power?
Power Boosts should be judged by their context in the story, not by the gap between Tiers.
A writer has Planetary characters in his story, but now he wants to amp the stakes higher. What's he going to do? He would probably think of the next big thing. A star, maybe. He would choose Stellar destruction simply because it's the next big thing that can be blown up, he wouldn't care about the great gap in raw Destructive Power. And he wouldn't care again if he later made the characters go from Star level to Galaxy levle.
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If Gohan is 3-A wouldnt Piccolo sorta scale since he did just barely keep up with Ultimate Gohan?
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See, this is the type of shit that genuinely makes me scratch my head.RadicalMrR said:
The OBD currently has most of the Dragon Ball cast at Multi-Galaxy or above, because they accept the previously mentioned idea that Base Goku absorbed his God Ki, which is later how he can turn Super Saiyan Blue.
So they basically have Base Goku = Multi-Galaxy+, and scale from there.
It is simultaneously more absurd but less inconsistent to scale.
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I honestly forgot why we didn't treat Goku and the cast as they do there.
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"Inconsistent"Dragonmasterxyz said:
And Saiyan Beyond God, a thing that only exists in the Ressurection of F movie and is never even named on-screen.
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I see....
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So are we downgrading Gohan then?
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Unless people can prove that Goku was holding back when he punched Gohan's head and he tanked it, no.LordAizenSama said:
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I had a sneaking feeling Matthew would he an one man debating team. Anyways, if anyone can defeat Matthew, yes . Otherwise, it is not happening.
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@Matt It is either he was holding back or its PIS. You don't go from stalemating SSJ2 to stalemating SSB. He didnt power up or anything. It's BS.
You're the only one as far as I can see who disagrees with a downgrade.
You're the only one as far as I can see who disagrees with a downgrade.
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This stuff happens, please accept it.
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Thats not how it works. More people agree to this downgrade, and the upgrade shouldnt of happened in the first place.The 2nd Existential Seed said:
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@Aizen
Sure you can go from matching SSJ2 and then SSB2 Goku.
This same logic would suggest that Freeza can't match a held-back base Goku and then a Kaioken x20 Goku.
You are ignoring the context that both were holding back initially. The dialogue makes this clear as day, I even quoted it and put the timers in the video for people to see.
Sure you can go from matching SSJ2 and then SSB2 Goku.
This same logic would suggest that Freeza can't match a held-back base Goku and then a Kaioken x20 Goku.
You are ignoring the context that both were holding back initially. The dialogue makes this clear as day, I even quoted it and put the timers in the video for people to see.
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All it took was SUPER Vegeta to get angry to become stronger than ALL of GT.Megamangohan said:
This stuff happens, please accept it.
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Um, what? Gohan states twice hes using his full power against goku in both forms.
And no. You really cannot.
And no. You really cannot.
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I agree with Aizen on the downgrade for now. Maybe in the tournament we maybe see more from Gohan but as of right now the evidents for 3-A Gohan isn't enough imo.
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