Regarding Gohan's 3-A Rating

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Well it is simple to explain. They can be sensed, therefore they do not have God Ki. That's been a thing since BoG.

 

[SomebodyData]

I mean, a mortal can get god ki, so we can't just assume that god ki is only for and mandatory for gods. Additionally, even Kami is a "god", its literally his name.

 

[VenomElite]

Gotcha. Logic you say? Logic is the exact same thing we can use to prove to SSB's ki control but because it wasn't stated we throw it out the window....

REVERSE ARGUMENT.

 

[Bepo4151]

Shin does have god ki according to Whis.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Actually, now that I think about it. Have they ever sensed Shin?

 

[Pikachu942]

He doesn't say Shin has God ki, he's referring to the act of Goku becoming a "god".

 

[SomebodyData]

Nah, we debunked it, not threw it out since it was never stated...

 

[SomebodyData]

@Bepo he said or, implying its not the same...

Not to mention what Pika said.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Even if he did have god ki, the original argument was god's arent super strong

Compared to the regular mortal, they are.

Hell, Piccolo was scared of Supreme kai when they first met.

 

[Vegan_Gains]

All Kai's have god ki, even Dende is able to sense god ki, and he's only a guardian.

 

[SomebodyData]

your evidence?

 

[LordAizenSama]

It's PIS. Gohan matches ssj2 then ssb. or Goku was holding back which makes the upgrade wrong anyway

And where does forcing goku into SSBKK come from? Gohan asked for him to use it..

 

[VenomElite]

No, the original argument was SSB grants a greater control over ki.

 

[Byakuya_"Senbonzakura"_Kuchiki]

It's probably that same asspull that Trunks had back in Black Arc.

 

[KinkiestSins]

It's PIS. Gohan matches ssj2 then ssb. or Goku was holding back which makes the upgrade wrong anyway
And where does forcing goku into SSBKK come from? Gohan asked for him to use it..

If we do that logic, we must downgrade both him and android 17 to Unknown since Gohan has the better feats of the two.

 

[Dark649]

I agree with LordAizen, also it's better to not take Super seriously.....

 

[VenomElite]

I agree with Aizen and Dark649. Super's powerscaling inconsistencies are comparable with Pokémon's...

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Tbh, it was going fine, till the future trunks arc (still one of the best db arcs though)

 

[Antoniofer]

Going to agree with Aizen too, is that the difference between SS2 and SSB is small or either Gohan was already holding quatrillions of times against SS2, any option isn't workable, I also has warned about scaling from training/friendly matches.

We going with this "upgrade", but we hasn't conclude the speed revision in DBZ nor Gotenks vs C. Vegeta issue.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

I agree with Aizen too its pis and gohan asked goku to go full power and super's powerscaling is messed up anyway

 

[Uncannily_Callous]

I think people are overplaying what Gohan did. He took one punch and got two in, that's it. At least Android 17 blocked a Kamehameha and had a pretty lengthy exchange of blows against SSJB Goku.

SSJ2 Future Trunks wasn't upgraded due to landing and tanking hits from the 3-A Goku Black/Future Zamasu, so I don't think Gohan should be either for the couple hits he got against Goku.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

According to the DB wiki, the kais have both normal and god ki since they are creation gods. So mortals are capable of sensing their normal ki.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

@Uncannily Callous.

It is no overplaying. The only reason it even was as short as it was becasue Goku decided to use Kaio-Ken. If Gohan did not ask Goku to go all out in SSB, and Piccolo proclaiming to Gohan to also use his full power, i wouldn't be on the opposing side. However, despite how ridiculous it sounds , it still happened.

In Future Trunk's case, there was so many indications that they were playing around with him. So, that is honestly an terrible example.

 

[SomebodyData]

@2nd Actually Piccolo just said "Go Gohan" and Gohan telling Goku to go full power is against your side actually.

Actually, no there wasn't.

 

[Dark649]

Remember that both Future Zamasu and Rosé Black were angry at the mortals/saiyans, so at that point they were not mosly playing with them.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

SSJ2 Future Trunks wasn't upgraded due to landing and tanking hits from the 3-A Goku Black/Future Zamasu, so I don't think Gohan should be either for the couple hits he got against Goku.

I think that was just agreed to be PIS in this community.

 

[Uncannily_Callous]

Could Black be "playing around" as to not instantly kill Trunks with a Kamehameha, but at the same time badly damage the much stronger Goku to the point he couldn't even walk?

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

It's PIS. Gohan matches ssj2 then ssb. or Goku was holding back which makes the upgrade wrong anyway
And where does forcing goku into SSBKK come from? Gohan asked for him to use it..

Its also PIS that SS2 Goku to even match Ultimate Gohan going by the episode. Suppressed Ultimate maybe.

From the episode:

Their base forms were even with Gohan having the edge many times in the 2 vs 2 match. base Gohan >= base Goku. So going by the Multipliers then its should be SS2 Gohan >= SS2 Goku. And Ultimate to be way beyond that since its way more powerful than SS3.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

After reading through and calming down I agree with the downgrade.

 

[LordAizenSama]

This is getting out of hand, it should be ok to downgrade Gohan now considering the numbers agreeing with the downgrade

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Of course Matt nor Ant have commented. But otherwise I agree.

 

[Dark649]

Multipliers are better to be not taken into consideration at this point....

 

[ZERO7772]

Like many others said Gohan was matching SSJ2 the SSB thing was rather PIS and Gohan asked him for it in the first place , you don't struggle with SSJ2 and all of suddenly you are equal with SSB , Gohan had tons of troubles dealing with SSJ2 after literally saying to Goku this is currently my full power

Gohan was even with SSJ2 and then asked Goku to goes full power to compare himself to full power Goku to which Goku then one shouted him

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Multipliers are better to be not taken into consideration at this point....

Even going by forms it still doesn't make sense for Ultimate Gohan to be just on par with SS2 since Ultimate >>> SS3 >> SS2 >> SS1. Gohan being suppressed in the Ultimate form against SS2 Goku makes way more sense.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I conceed. Forgive me, i am just trying to make sense of an inconsistent series. If Matthew & Ant disagree, well... Agreeing to Disagreeing is key now.

 

[ZERO7772]

There so many people against the upgrade you can't upgrade a character like that and yes this is really getting out of hand

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Like many others said Gohan was matching SSJ2 the SSB thing was rather PIS and Gohan asked him for it in the first place , you don't struggle with SSJ2 and all of suddenly you are equal with SSB , Gohan had tons of troubles dealing with SSJ2 after literally saying to Goku this is currently my full power
Gohan was even with SSJ2 and then asked Goku to goes full power to compare himself to full power Goku to which Goku then one shouted him

And like I said this doesn't make sense.

Their base forms were even with Gohan having the edge many times in the 2 vs 2 match. base Gohan >= base Goku. So going by the Multipliers/forms then its should be SS2 Gohan >= SS2 Goku. And Ultimate to be way beyond that since its way more powerful than SS3.

At the end Gohan said that he going to full power with his last punch.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

your evidence?

Don't feel like looking for the scan, but I vaguely remember Dabura and Babidi saying that they couldn't use the Supreme Kai's ki to feed to Majin Buu because of it's divine nature. Granted, this was before the concept of God Ki was fully fleshed out, so take this as you will.

None the less, having God ki doesn't mean you lack normal ki, and givin their function as creation gods that manage life the way they do, it would make sense that they have both kinds of ki.

 

[VenomElite]

Could we at least wait until the actual tournament begins? Seriously DBS gets upgraded on an episodic basis...without waiting for more feats or statements to properly judge the situation. And with Frieza returning who knows what mess with unfold later on.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Remember when I said that. Sparky made a thread anyway...And yes Sparky originally made the thread. We need to make a discussion rule honestly.