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Regarding Certain Hax/Abilities

I think we should just make it so that the more powerful or overpowered one's haxes are, the more explanation/effort would be required to be put fourth in order for it to be "accepted". Just flat out saying "You can't have this hax anymore" is frankly, stupid. An example of this rule absolutely destroying verses is mine; You can argue I need to nerf my characters. Problem is, Everyone is overpowered in the verse; so everything IS balanced.


Also that High 1-A Neo Mebius key is more fitting for a Jokes Battle wiki, so I guess that explains why you consider that key to be bad xD
 
We never suggested outlawing it. I know how the human psyche works very well. If the community frowns upon it, less and less people will do it and our problem will at least be out of sight.
 
Who is The Child of Fate and who is Everyone's Best Friend?

FateAlbane and myself, respectively.
 
Just when I had a thread in mind that was important to be discussed but something like this comes to mind first instead...dammit~
 
This is just minor discussion. Dont let that stop you from more important things lol.
 
I agree with everything here. I always found Omnilock fishy in general since it's kinda another form of "Omniresistance lol" so I'll make sure to take it off Ouroboros' page since this thread made me realize it's really only a 1-A thing...

It's good that you mention Apeiros' page really, since for the powers and abilties I got from Superpower wiki, I did try to define them as best I could. I suppose it would be helpful to know if there'd be anything I could change for that now that it's brought up to be better.

Though, I think it'd be good to bring up Taiyomu, a Low 2-C with potentially High 1-A hax with how her anchor works. I assume she would definitely fall into this category you mentioned...though I have definitely been considering nerfing her recently if this seems like to much of a problem so yeah...
 
SiamesetheKitty said:
I agree with everything here. I always found Omnilock fishy in general since it's kinda another form of "Omniresistance lol" so I'll make sure to take it off Ouroboros' page since this thread made me realize it's really only a 1-A thing...

It's good that you mention Apeiros' page really, since for the powers and abilties I got from Superpower wiki, I did try to define them as best I could. I suppose it would be helpful to know if there'd be anything I could change for that now that it's brought up to be better.

Though, I think it'd be good to bring up Taiyomu, a Low 2-C with potentially High 1-A hax with how her anchor works. I assume she would definitely fall into this category you mentioned...though I have definitely been considering nerfing her recently if this seems like to much of a problem so yeah...
Click to expand...
Taiyomu's anchor has hax (not sure how these people are going to react to it), but putting in the "potentially Irrelevant with her anchor" for speed and stuff like that makes no sense.
 
Well somewhat on-topic, I have been meaning to try and bring some stuff regarding the powers pages used either from here (which is really technically brought from VSBW directly) or from superpowers wiki. Kind of think it would best if we do try to write up our own definitions for the powers. For the ones linked on the pages of the OC, IDK with that.

Also on this topic is, for now on my mind, a couple powers that PROBABLY may need to be talked about? And that's on Complete Arsenal and Plot Manipulation. As the name implies, it's basically having all sorts of powers packed up for ya like getting a DLC package sent to you with some real goods and all that in it. Long story short, however, it seemed to be something NLF-ish as it may lead at times for someone to assume a character may have all powers in the verse and beyond or some shit like. Or powers that in any given verse even would have those existing and ones that have yet to exist or something. While plot manipulation is, simply enough, manipulating the plot to do whatever what one wants to do. But this one was kind of, I think, probably NLF-ish like Complete Arsenal.

While they're not on here exactly (used to, but not anymore), does anyone else here have an idea as to how to deal with them? Presumably, if they were here and some layout rules were made on this for them in a given Vs debate, let's say. Otherwise if there's not much to talk with them, then that's also whatever with me then on them.

Anywho, I guess there can be some kind of regulations for certain haxes here but as I'm not one that hasn't been as focused with these kinds of topics like I use to before, there's not much else I can give out to here overall.
 
Complete Arsenal doesn't against. It's as nonsensical as the Omega Omnisphere.
 
Complete Arsenal was removed already. I stand by the notion that, if you used the term to mean "A character who has all the powers within their own continuity, potentially the ones that are yet to be demonstrated", it would make all the sense in the world as long as nobody argued about what wasn't shown yet and had a proper verse to back that up. Want an actual example? Rimuru Tempest. He has borderline all the abilities in Tensei Shitara. Still a great character that could have this properly listed under him. Arceus is a similar case in the Pokemon continuity, to an extent.

Sadly, the ability is abused in the NLF aspect to hell and back everywhere I see it. People NEVER seem to take it as "Has all of their verse", but throw that all the way to "Every ability you ca possibly think about and every application of it". Look no further than Ajimu's (from MB) infamous story with threads. Hence, I'm more than fine with the removal. It's much more trouble than it's worth.
 
As for Plot Manipulation, it's not any more harmful by itself than Reality Warping.

It's just a "specialized" version of Reality Warping, like Conceptual Manipulation, Boundary Manipulation (or in some cases, even Magic's) cousin.

It's also a power acknowledged in serious verses out there, not just random ones. I do believe this power should stay.
 
Also, on the topic of "seems to be given everything/assumed to have everything"... The moment I stumble upon a page saying "All/Nearly all applications of x", with X being something as versatile as Reality Warping, I already know its an NLF by default, because no actual plot would go out of its way to have a character going through every single possible power/application/resistance/whatever. At that point the story would be so focused at throwing powers in the readers face, they'd likely be better off reading SP Wiki itself.

Heck, 1-A verses out there don't go that overboard. If you search any of the most powerful verses out there, you still won't see across the whole story people throwing as many applications of hax as some people seem to be implying so many of their characters do across the story (This becomes apparent when low to mid-tiers in some verses are packing more hax applications and versatile Reality Warping/Boundary/Concept/Plot/InsertOmniPowerHere stuff than say, Bernkastel).
 
What if it's a High 1-A that has "Assumed to have every power in the verse". Like, the character already has Questionable Omnipotence listed as an ability but you just go on to expand that they can do basically... anything?
 
...Only tier 0s have Questionable Omnipotence (and by the time you have this listed it's kind of a given that you don't really need to be listing anything else).
 
ExerciseDancefloors said:
So, what ability should I list if a character in my verse can utilize all of the powers shown in said verse?
Click to expand...
Just list all of the abilities. Or have it on the verse page and link to it for clarification (I think this second option works)
 
You'd probably have to list that just like, say, Yhwach having all of the Sternritter's powers. And then you'd expand upon the profile with each of the corresponding abilities.

Just throwing "Complete Arsenal, has everything the verse has to offer" would be too vague and not really usable in threads/statistics since at that point it can be basically anything.

That's why Complete Arsenal doesn't work - to proper use it without leaving the window to NLF, you'd need an entire verse with all the profiles complete so people would be able to look through that (much like they can confirm for the aforementioned Rimuru), without falling to the 'Potential'/NLFish stuff.
 
Oh, protip by the way: Be real careful when it comes to giving a character all the abilities around in your continuity.

That is VERY easy to get out of control if you're not paying a lot of attention to their role on the plot as a whole. Common results may include Mary Sue/Gary Stu, God Modding, getting stuck by your own narrative, story-breaking powers, PIS, CIS and many many others of those nasty monsters that lurk on pages and ruin plots which you might not notice until it's too late so you have to revise literally *everything* because of so much as one or two people in your verse.

The infamous ending to Bleach of Yhwach dying via arrow and becoming a nearly memetic example of PIS is half a result of that.
 
FateAlbane said:
...Only tier 0s have Questionable Omnipotence (and by the time you have this listed it's kind of a given that you don't really need to be listing anything else).
Click to expand...
High 1-As are supposed to be no different from a tier 0 save for small weaknesses; such as if a "True" tier 0 exists. "Only tier 0s have Questionable Omnipotence" sounds very very wrong with the current wording of High 1-A
 
No. The moment you have a weakness, you're not a Questionable Omnipotent by definition.

High 1-A's are often comparable to 0's and would qualify for 0 in other verses depending on circumstances (if say, their limitation happens to be a comparable character). That still doesn't make any Tier High 1-A have Questionable Omnipotence listed by the system.
 
So, judging by what this thread is saying, for my High 1-A, I'd have to list literally every power they have.... which basically means any and all powers from my verse.... AKA basically all of them....
 
>>> List Reality Warping, Conceptual Manipulation and then some of the usual "1-A and above pack".

>>> Everyone will know it's High 1-A Reality Warping because that's the character's tier.
 
Ah just when I figured this would sort of happened, yet continued on with a question I felt might have been appropriate...

Also agree with Fate on that one. Perhaps maybe add what the character themselves have and, if CA was on here, you can put them in parenthesis and say that they have all of the powers of the verse has currently that's known and shown...or something like that.

And ah to the Plot Manipulation note.
 
When it comes to powersets, it's a given that High 1-As and 0's get the most generic ones out of the bunch since their tiers kinda already imply absolute power in itself and listing a bunch of stuff would just be redundant in these two particular cases only.

Yog Sothoth for example has like, 4 lines of powers. And they are all the generic stuff.
 
Well that's flat out tedious....


Listing a bunch of powers takes forever; it would be much easier and more to the point to write "every power shown in the verse".
 
@Exer: That can also be an option too. Easier in fact. I would really advise/suggest to anyone that would think that to NOT DO THAT.

@FateL Good point.
 
Being honest, I'm not at all concerned with how other people will handle their pages, quality be damned.

Consider everything I say as a piece or another of advice. Taking any of this to heart or just discarding it, as far as *I'm* concerned doesn't really matter much to me, lol

The subject of links and use of power pages interests me more than how people want to handle their pages. That's what's keeping me around since I'd hate to see otherwise useful power pages go down due to their possible cons.

I'm 100% neutral when it comes to the way other users will be doing this stuff. Consider anything I say a suggestion at best, random talk at worst as I'm just here to add my two cents on the matter - And while I *am* stating my opinion, that is not some godly rule: I will simply go along with what the majority here decides.
 
FateAlbane said:
>>> List Reality Warping, Conceptual Manipulation and then some of the usual "1-A and above pack".

>>> Everyone will know it's High 1-A Reality Warping because that's the character's tier.
Click to expand...
I thought you would list "Nigh Omnipotence" for High 1-A.
 
@Darkmon: Basically, if someone were to try and list EVERY power for a character who has complete arsenal, I would advise them not to do that is what I was trying to say.
 
Well this whole thing will be confusing for me... in my veres theres a technique called ominlock but it is basically nothing like the power listed as Ominlock...
 
To be fair, the moment someone as a Creator, finds it tedious to even list the powerlist of one or another of their own characters because it's simply that big, that should *probably* be telling something...
 
Tier: 1-A

Power and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Time Manipulation, Omnilock, All powers of all characters in the verse (too many to list), Power Nullification (Can nullify the powers of High 1-A's)

Attack Potency: Outerverse level (Destroyed the Outerverse (first mistake)+ some extremely long and boringly detailed description for the tiering)

Meanwhile....

Summary

"..........He is the Elder God of the 7th Heaven"

Personality

"He is very cruel and selfish and is willing to do anything to achieve his goals...".............................................................................

Meanwhile.....

Attack Potency: Still reading this AP description.

Notable Attacks and Techniques:


Keys: Before Transcendence | After Transcendence

This is an exaggeration, but not inaccurate.
 
Yeah, that's pretty much the sort of thing I mean. lol

My impression is something like: If the person who creates it (who would naturally have some innate liking for their creations from the get go), looks/thinks about the powerlist they themselves made and their thought is "Wow, how tedious it is to even take all this into consideration.", consider for a moment what would go through the head of someone else making their first impressions when it comes to stuff like reading about that character.

Also of note is that, that very thing labeled tedious (considering all the powers given) will be something to be kept in mind at all times when dealing with said character within the plot as well. Anyways. If someone gave a character so much stuff that even they can't list it, this is the point where I step back and just conclude on my end with a: "Well, I have no solution."
5645372
 
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