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Regarding Certain Hax/Abilities

Sera_EX

Sera_EX

She Who Dabbles in Fiction
VS Battles
Retired
6,104
5,102
FC/OC is a site were we create original or fan characters or post those of others. Obviously the main attraction is vs debating and with that comes getting unique and creative with powers and abilities.

Unfortunately, even some rather well-regarded users in this community abuse that and go way overboard. This ranges anywhere from making every single character they make overpowered or ridiculously hax'd beyond measure. No, "overpowered" does not mean "Tier 2 and above".

Some of you (you know who are) make characters that can solo their entire respective tier on VSB. It's one thing to make strong characters because you have a strong verse, it's another to make characters solely to flauny their hax or AP with no validity other than "muh character beats such and such" every time someone posts their OC on Discord and it just so happens to be of the same tier. Even if you don't make them for that reason, it's still bad.

Why make an unbeatable or immeasurably OP character just to make comparisons to characters obviously weaker because they don't have a plethora of hax? Don't get me started on the hax you people come up with. We have very hax'd inviduals like Medusa and Apeiros and then we have those with shit powers like a High 3-A/Low 2-C BFRing a 1-A entity or similar nonsense. I'm sorry but just because this is FC/OC Vs Battles doesn't mean power/hax is the only thing to worry about.

I've heard of and outright seen people make characters with "hax immumity", "1-A protection", "Omni-Resistance" and everything in between. People give these guys 100+ powers and abilities, you can tell by the super-long paragraphs of descriptions and the number of categories (taking out non power related ones). Even Medusa only has roughly less than half of that. Then certain powers are ripped straight out of Superpower Wiki, not that it is bad to sometimes use powers from there but to list so many powers from there and automatically include all their applications?

Why do we keep doing this? Is winning that important to you? People talked all kinds of crap about Seed, how bad Seed's pages was "blah blah Crying Child" etc, when the page(s) were not bad because of power, at least not entirely. Seed never bragged about his characters' strengths nor did he ever flaunt their hax to people, unlike these ysers that shan't be named.

Anyway...just a thread for discussing this as Dragon requested. I'm sure others have something to add.
 
Can't really say more honestly. The fact when we start seeing character with "lolOmnilock" is really....bad. Yeah, it's an official power, but it's implications are suspect and no one in reality gives a character Omnilock for any other purposes than verses battles. If you are like a High 1-A or 0, then I'd understand. However, when we start getting 1-A's and BELOW having Omnilock, then we have an issue of not only hax abuse, but flat out NLF.
 
Omnilock and Boundary Manipulation are redundant powers. Especially the former.
 
Yeah. This is something seen a lot here.

As far as superpower wiki goes, I feel it needs to be limited to like 2 or 3. Cause seeing over half the dang list of powers linking there feels like a slap in the face. (And there was a discussion about "absolute" powers in another thread, and people decided to ban those cause NLF)
 
You know, it's kind of like fighting games. I'll use Injustice 2 for example. We have a balanced roster, let's say all characters are the same tier for comparative purposes, but then there's those people that spam Deadshot and keep spam-zoning.

Comparetively, you have balanced Low 2-Cs and then you have the one Low 2-C with Omnilock... WHO is beating this guy? People even claim omnipresence can't do jack to omnilock...
 
I agree with most of the stuff on this thread, the only thing about it that I doubt is that limiting using Superpower Wiki powers would solve anything.

If someone is bent on going nuts with powers or making some absolute undeniable BS for their characters just because, they will do so even by listing something like "Reality warping (Has all possible applications of it in a 1-A lvl".

The problem is not quite in the links used. It's usually on the creator when it comes to that. Much like tropes in a history, SP Wikia links are tools.

How well they are used depends on the person, though I'll have to admit many people use it badly.

On the hax subject, Omnilock was removed back then. I could probably find the thread if I looked for a few minutes. I'm amazed people still put it in pages.

Omnilock is basically the property of a 1-A. All 1-As have it by default, all those below don't so having it listed is redundant at best, outright wrong at worst.
 
Yeah.

I for one only really my Bois have crazy powers because I think they're cool. Not because I want to beat someone. Although, a long time ago I sort of was self conscious about how strong my characters are. I like that time being behind me.
 
To further expand on the "NLF Powers" and how that depends on user, take Complete Arsenal for example.

It was removed because People abuse it in threads to hell and back like it's some power that gives you every power and application that ever was, will or will be and then some.

I still use the term complete arsenal to this day within my works despite that being banned here.

Difference being: I use complete arsenal as "Has all the powers and abilitiest hat were ever shown within their continuity and likely many others exclusive to them, which are yet to be shown." (I also would never touch the subject of those that were never shown when it comes to threads, naturally).

Every ability can be perfectly used as long as people know how to actually think of how they would better work within the plot rather than "I WANT TO WIN VS THREADS AND STOMP AND REEEE".
 
Not for limiting powers, just that the community discourage use of giving characters too many powers and then call themselves exclaiming to Kingdom Come how brilliant and powerful they are.

People can use Superpower Wiki as they wish but don't give someone Omnilock and brag about how they're unbeatable to 90% of the tier.

I remember when I first made Lullabelle and the first thing was her being compared to the wiki's most ridiculous.

Arciene has hax beyond measure yet I never bring her up because her abilities were not created for the purpose of vs debating.
 
Tier 2's with 1-A hax is an issue I have.....

Nico Karias has hax that derive from a 1-A and Harvesters hax can reach close to his "potency". However, it can't effect those far above their level as said 1-A's power is restricted to said level (I guess for those misunderstanding, I will say DImensional level) you are. So it isn't 1-A hax until said beings are 1-A.

People don't bother to put limitations on hax either. Chase has a feat of Time Stopping Immeasurables. Said hax even worked on Zavi (restricted) for literally a second before he broke out. Even his power has limitations. Anyone else would say "He stopped an Immeasurable meaning even High 1-Bs in the verse can't resist it"...please....
 
@Sera Well, we naturally agree on that. While I haven't been on the Discord Group or that much talk about verses, this thread feels to me like yet another continuation of the "Overpowered for no reason Crisis", the sad subject we always have to touch every now and then.

I really wonder if/when people do that they considered how they would make that stuff work for the plot without going 1000% PIS throughout the whole story for like 5 seconds.

As for Omnilock, it should just be removed. As I said above, it was stablished that it's a 1-A thing. Either you're 1-A and have it by default (so no need to list) or you're not and that's just NLF like saying the character no sells everything.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
Tier 2's with 1-A hax is an issue I have.....

Nico Karias has hax that derive from a 1-A and Harvesters hax can reach close to his "potency". However, it can't effect those far above their level as said 1-A's power is restricted to said level (I guess for those misunderstanding, I will say DImensional level) you are. So it isn't 1-A hax until said beings are 1-A.

People don't bother to put limitations on hax either. Chase has a feat of Time Stopping Immeasurables. Said hax even worked on Zavi (restricted) for literally a second before he broke out. Even his power has limitations. Anyone else would say "He stopped an Immeasurable meaning even High 1-Bs in the verse can't resist it"...please....
Click to expand...
I feel like people are used to people not putting limits on hax. When I see a certain thread with a certain guy I made, I feel like the guy who said "unfair" thought "OH HE HAS PETRIFICATION, HE WILL JUST LOOK AT THE OTHER GUY AND TURN 1-A'S INTO STONE" (1-A bit is an exaggeration, but it still should never be assumed this way when it literally has a freaking thing below explaining it)
 
How about instead of continually restricting what people can and can't do here, we set simple guidelines and require justifications for powers instead? We have too many people ruining it for everyone else, and then getting a bunch of shit restricted or banned.


Like, what the ****?
 
Only thing we are restricting is like Omnilock. What else are we pray tell restricting? Also calm down.
 
I'm not here to antagonize anyone or jeopardize anything, but we can't keep restricting powers like this, because if we continue to do so, every "haxxy" or "overpowered" ability will be banned and we won't be able to make high level characters anymore.
 
...*sigh*

I'll simply let bygones be bygones and keep focusing on my own stuff.

Way too much effort when it comes to keeping my own plots and characters in order already. To try and point continuity problems/pis and flaws in other stuff (as blatant as they are at times), and considering all the times this problem was adressed in the past...

Eh. Not my thing anymore. Good luck with the thread, everyone.

  • warps.
 
We aren't banning anything aside from Omnilock. If you don't use that then you have nothing to worry about it. We want people to have creative freedom, however, we don't want OP haxxed characters who basically recite the Powers and Abilities section to exist for the sole purpose of being OP. We want people to actually give the attempt of making interesting characters. People who also make these characters with a story in mind. When you have a guy who is like Tier 2 with Omnilock, how good is that written in verse without PIS?
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
We aren't banning anything aside from Omnilock. If you don't use that then you have nothing to worry about it. We want people to have creative freedom, however, we don't want OP haxxed characters who basically recite the Powers and Abilities section to exist for the sole purpose of being OP. We want people to actually give the attempt of making interesting characters. People who also make these characters with a story in mind. When you have a guy who is like Tier 2 with Omnilock, how good is that written in verse without PIS?
Click to expand...


It's not an "automatic" power, it's granted to him by a being of higher power. He only obtains it after defeating the main antagonist at the story's end.
 
@Exercise

That does not excuse acting all high and mighty about their so called "brilliant"/unbeatable characters. I'm 100% for creativity but there's a need for quality control. Unless you want this wiki to turn into the NES library (it kinda has already...)
 
Good job you though of one way to limit it. But guess what that also doesn't fix? The redundancy. The high horse people get. The fact that 95% of those who'd give a character omnilock aren't going to give that limitation and will flaunt over their OPness. That is a fact.
 
Sera Loveheart said:
@Exercise
That does not excuse acting all high and mighty about their so called "brilliant"/unbeatable characters. I'm 100% for creativity but there's a need for quality control. Unless you want this wiki to turn into the NES library (it kinda has already...)
Click to expand...


Oh, of course not. I completely agree with you on that.
 
Just a final headsup, but pretty sure complete/infinite power to the extent of the same dimension isn't Omnilock.

...It's just being at the peak of your respective dimensional tier. The equivalent of something like "At least X Level (Possesses infinite xth dimensional power)".

That does not translate to an ability. It's kind of a similar reason why base YHVH stomps people with ease on the 2-A tier, but isn't outright stated to 100% nope every possible ability in fiction another 2-A might throw at him.
 
Again, how could you even bypass Omnilock?

No 5-D being or below can touch then and a 6-D being would stomp. The power is useless in vs matches because either you can't do anything against it, or you need to be a higher order being or have higher order abilities.
 
Let me also say that even good characters can have bs hax. That's a problem.
 
Yes, that's why I said Omnilock below 1-A makes no sense...

Simply put, it's an innacurate understanding of the ability mechanics to give it to anyone below that.
 
I'm not trying to justify the actions of those that do stupid things on the wiki. My only goal is to explain how these powers can be used appropriately.
 
Sera Loveheart said:
Again, how could you even bypass Omnilock?
No 5-D heing or below can touch then and a 6-D being would stomp. The power is useless in vs matches because either you can't do anything against it, or you need to be a higher order being or have higher order abilities.
Click to expand...


It doesn't have to be used in VS matches, it could just be for the story.
 
I agree with this stuff and some rulings about 1-A defenses and Omnilock stuff should be made. It's not like 1-A hax on its own is bad for lower tier characters but it really shouldn't be a common sight and should be paired with good characters and a good setting.
 
Character A might have a great backstory, great personality, and a neatly organized profile, but can have really bad abilities like Metapotence or be 9-B in their lowest tier and then High 1-A in the last tier.

This is a good character outside being High 1-A. I don't like when people treat High 1-A as "super strong 1-A".
 
Sera Loveheart said:
Character A might have a great backstory, great personality, and a neatly organized profile, but can have really bad abilities like Metapotence or be 9-B in their lowest tier and then High 1-A in the last tier.
This is a good character outside being High 1-A. I don't like when people treat High 1-A as "super strong 1-A".
Click to expand...


This is why I've been trying to advocate for Tiering Expansion. Sub Tiers for 2 and 1 would be a nice thing to have.
 


This is why I've been trying to advocate for Tiering Expansion. Sub Tiers for 2 and 1 would be a nice thing to have.

Nigh Multi-Universal?
 

This is why I've been trying to advocate for Tiering Expansion. Sub Tiers for 2 and 1 would be a nice thing to have.

Nigh Multi-Universal?
Maybe just for Tier 1.

Anything you have in mind for that?
 
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