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Nothing wrong with getting some scheduled sleep time in. We're only human.
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Regarding Bleach characters actual scalling and planet level top tiers
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PreachNothing wrong with getting some scheduled sleep time in. We're only human.
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- #123
Of course he did, he's an hybrid.
Having his energy sensed means he isn't transcendental like evolved Aizen.
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- #126
Yes but it's not, characters are specifically sensing Hikone.
It does, because then you are not bound by the limits of each.
Hence the whole Vizard experiment, the Arrancars, monster Aizen beingsort of a hollow with Zanpakuto and Quincy like abilities.
In fact, all potential kings are hybrids because of that reason, which doesn't mean they have all become strong enough yet.
Arkenis
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Danger Ichigo < True Shikai Ichigo < Hikone? if so then what is the problem with scaling to 5-A?
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The only person who doesn't understand it is Hasch. It's a lot of arguments from incredulity and a lot of head canon. The OP asserted that Dangai Ichigo is probably True Bankai Ichigo level, which is incorrect for obvious reasons and isn't reflected in our accepted scaling.
At this point I'm waiting for staff to comment.
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- #132
He didn't reach that level because he was defeated by Hisagi, Ikkumikidomoe eating a piece of the king was defeated before recovering his full powers by Shikai Zaraki, who never fought Hikone.
I can prove that too, but is secondary to the main argument that you are still failing to answer.
There's no way to scale Hikone to Aizen.
True Shikai or Dangai Ichigo are both several tiers above Hikone.
Because he isn't trascendental and couldn't defeat characters that are weaker than Aizen.
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I think Hasch is failing to realize that the scaling only doesn't make sense when they're introducing their own false/debunked scaling and more out there interpretations of the scaling compared to the more consistent scaling that we already have.
It's more like they're trying to find a reason for the scaling not to make sense with arguments from disbelief such as "How could x characters scale to y when narratively y was considered god tier" without taking into account the fact that other characters are just in that level now. Not actually bringing up points as to why they're not that level.
Arc in his first response with the doc and relevant portions of it already explained the whole scaling chain and narrative consistency. And pretty much everyone else agrees so even if you still don't agree you just gotta agree to disagree. You may not agree with the scaling personally but that doesn't make it universally wrong.
Hikone's been stated to be on that god tier/Soul King level. Ginjo has been stated to be able to 'destroy the world', meaning the Bleach cosmos in context as Tokinada was referring to Soul King power. The Narrator said Ginjo could fight the strongest verison of Hikone. Ginjo's emotion amped Getsuga is = to the Getsuga that bodied Soul King Yhwach. Kenpachi is clearly above Hikone and Ikomi.
Ichigo and Aizen still can be above Hikone. Ichigo's full power is HoS + Bankai anyways, and has Gran Ray Getsuga's on top of that so he clearly outscales even the Getsuga that one tapped Yhwach. Aizen in 18 months went from his FKT level to his TYBW level, so an extra 6 months or 1/3rd of that time isn't farfetched for huge leaps, and him somewhat scaling to Bankai Ichigo and SK Yhwach is still enough room for him to scale above Hikone. And that's not taking into account abilties etc
Mayuri and Urahara were clearly stated to only be able to beat Hikone via unconventional means
The only other people that you could make headcanon arguments for scaling to Kenpachi are Byakuya and Toshiro for 1.) Being portrayed as peers to Kenpachi at the end of the TYBW and clearly being the 3 strongest Captains and 2.) Literally being written out of the story by the time the fight between Tokinada and Hikone came about, implying that relativity from the TYBW still applies or that the story would've been drastically different and not a Kenpachi only show had they been there.
And even then, it's not concrete and more so implications. Other than that, nobody by CFYOW really has even a possibility to scale to the God tiers
It's more like they're trying to find a reason for the scaling not to make sense with arguments from disbelief such as "How could x characters scale to y when narratively y was considered god tier" without taking into account the fact that other characters are just in that level now. Not actually bringing up points as to why they're not that level.
Arc in his first response with the doc and relevant portions of it already explained the whole scaling chain and narrative consistency. And pretty much everyone else agrees so even if you still don't agree you just gotta agree to disagree. You may not agree with the scaling personally but that doesn't make it universally wrong.
Hikone's been stated to be on that god tier/Soul King level. Ginjo has been stated to be able to 'destroy the world', meaning the Bleach cosmos in context as Tokinada was referring to Soul King power. The Narrator said Ginjo could fight the strongest verison of Hikone. Ginjo's emotion amped Getsuga is = to the Getsuga that bodied Soul King Yhwach. Kenpachi is clearly above Hikone and Ikomi.
Ichigo and Aizen still can be above Hikone. Ichigo's full power is HoS + Bankai anyways, and has Gran Ray Getsuga's on top of that so he clearly outscales even the Getsuga that one tapped Yhwach. Aizen in 18 months went from his FKT level to his TYBW level, so an extra 6 months or 1/3rd of that time isn't farfetched for huge leaps, and him somewhat scaling to Bankai Ichigo and SK Yhwach is still enough room for him to scale above Hikone. And that's not taking into account abilties etc
Mayuri and Urahara were clearly stated to only be able to beat Hikone via unconventional means
The only other people that you could make headcanon arguments for scaling to Kenpachi are Byakuya and Toshiro for 1.) Being portrayed as peers to Kenpachi at the end of the TYBW and clearly being the 3 strongest Captains and 2.) Literally being written out of the story by the time the fight between Tokinada and Hikone came about, implying that relativity from the TYBW still applies or that the story would've been drastically different and not a Kenpachi only show had they been there.
And even then, it's not concrete and more so implications. Other than that, nobody by CFYOW really has even a possibility to scale to the God tiers
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Kon complex multiversal tho
Arkenis
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Time passes differently in the Soul Society so im pretty sure it was years no?
Jibz
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That feat was for muscular Kon. Do you even read bleach? Nobody scales to muscular Kon he's literally the god of the verse. (jokes obv)
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- #138
Not true, by sensing his reiatsu, with his power level at below giant Gerard level, people instinctively knew he had the potential to be like the SK.
In the condition that he developes his power and becomes king.
Said attack was slightly deflected by Tokinada, the novel never says which Ichigo is referencing.
Furthermore that supposed powerup is just for that one attack, not for when he is said to be able to challenge Hikone.
If he doesn't scale to at least the Aizen that beat up Urahara, Isshin and Yoruichi he can't get planet level feats.
He can't scale for not being trascendental.
If you assume he is an exception because he is an hybrid, Ichigo was the same and couldn't be sensed either
And Hikone was equal to base Zaraki who isn't transcendental either.
Tokinada is stated relative to Yoruichi and Byakuya and weaker than base Aizen.
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Deflected how? Using brute force? Because if it was threw an ability, this argument is useless.
Arcker123
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It was IIRC via a Benihime beam. Not that this matters tho, cuz defecting an attack doesn’t mean you scale. I’m pretty sure that’s been explained to Hasch
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Actually from what i remember it was from Hanataro's Hisagomaru which heals the damage off of someone and transforms into an attack massively above its original AP.
Basically he used an amped attack that scales above his normal AP to slightly knock away Ginjo's Getsuga.
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黒崎一護が放つ、最大威力の月牙天衝にも匹敵する一撃。
A strike equal to the greatest power Getsuga Tenshou fired off by Kurosaki Ichigo.
Spoiler warning, "greatest power Getsuga fired off by Ichigo" means, verbatim, the strongest Getsuga Ichigo ever used. That is how grammar works.
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Damn me and my fast writing. You know what I meant lol!
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Yeah, it doesn't need to specify which Ichigo since it means in general. If they wanted to tell use which they would have said "during this time" and state which point.
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Verbatim says that Tokinada used an extremely amped attack, that was incapable of canceling out the GT, but was barely able to divert its direction. Not an anti-feat. Bottom left page to top right page btw.I was correct (thanks Arc for the scan)
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I was correct (thanks Arc for the scan
Then it should have no impact on scaling.
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- #149
With basically just an energy slash.
It should given it's still an attack from an absurdly weaker character, without exaggerating if that Getsuga was the same as the one that killed Ywach it would be the same as chapter 1 Ichigo deflecting Aizen's fragor.
Also, that supposed power up was only for that one attack, so nobody scales to that anyway.
The novel never addresses versions of characters for the claims it makes and relies on context for that, see how it talks about base Aizen and current Aizen without making a clear distinction. Context wise, makes no sense for Ginjo to power up that much or for it to be deflected.
Also, it wouldn't scale to Hikone anyway given h couldn't defeat base Zraki.
Arcker123
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Moving an attack slightly off course does not mean you scale dawg.
Yeah? Ginjo on profile is only 5-A with that one attack, no one disagrees with this.
It doesn’t rely on context. ”The strongest Getsuga Ichigo ever fired” applies to All forms of Ichigo broadly, that’s how grammar works. We don’t need a specific form, as the statement applies to all forms. The strongest Getsuga Ichigo has fired was 5-A, this is not hard. It can be deflected because slightly throwing an attack of course is not a valid feat for scaling.
Base Zaraki is 5-A on profile. How is this an anti feat?
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- #151
There's no need to scale Tokinada to the attack, the incoherence is him doing anything at all to said attack.
Context is knowing the relative levels of each character, to claim Ginjo went from mid tier to stronger than the god tiers needs at least unequivocal evidence.
That's circular logic, Zaraki is supposedly 5A because he fought Hikone.
Problem is Hikone doesn't have any feat or powerscalling that puts him on Aizen's tier, which is needed for 5A.
Arkenis
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Not sure how important this is but when Ichigo had appeared in his dangai form to Aizen, his friend could sense transcended Aizen but not Ichigo. So others being able to sense Hikone but being weaker is justification for Hikone not being on the level of Aizen and Ichigo.
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I quite literally just explained to you what “strongest Getsuga Ichigo ever fired” means. You’re objectively wrong here
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- #154
Aizen intentionally lowers his reiatsu unlike Hikone.
Arkenis
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Don't remember that being stated but ok.
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- #156
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Yeah that is specific and exclusive to Deicide Aizen. The entire point of his character arc was arrogance, but by the TYBW he no longer does this, and he didn't do this prior to the Deicide arc.That's how Gin almost kills Mullet Aizen.
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- #158
Sure, neither does Hikone, which is why we can say he isn't transcendental, unlike Aizen was.
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