Regarding Bleach characters actual scalling and planet level top tiers

[Hasch]

What’s being proven here? Like I don’t understand why this matters to the overall argument.

Simply put, as long as random officers can sense base Zaraki, he is nowhere near Aizen.

As long as his Shikai is only transcendental for random officers, he is nowhere near Aizen.

As long as anyone present in the FRP can sense Hikone, he is nowhere near Aizen.

IIRC They clearly felt some daunting presence from him. Whereas Kisuke in the other example didn’t.

They first noticed the little monsters being affected and then looked at Aizen, because that's the direction the things where being erased.

Aizen is still transcendental, that's why that guy from the prison tried to touch him and got melted, her couldn't sense his reiatsu near his body.

They can't sense base Kenpachi when he's up there.

They can, they couldn't while he was moving towards that place.

Have you read TYBW by any chance? like come on bruh.

That was put in place when he was weakened, and Mayuri never says he can hurt Aizen but he would regenerate, he says they can't kill him period.

If they tried to set up any of that while Aizen was already transcendental, it would be impossible

 

[Deceived3596]

That was put in place whgen he was weakened

Literally doesn't matter since he's at full power during his interactions with Mayuri and guess what? he couldn't break free from the seals.

Mayuri never says he can hurt Aizen but he would regenerate, he says they can't kill him period

If they tried to set upany of that while Aizen was already transcendental, it would be imposible

Don't know why you're using feats from a weaker, less intelligent version of Kisuke to downplay him.

TYBW Kisuke >>>>> FKT Kisuke.

 

[Arkenis]

They can, they couldn't while he was moving towards that place.

No some can some can't.

 

[Arkenis]

Why does him being weakened matter?

 

[Hasch]

Literally doesn't matter since he's at full power during his interactions with Mayuri and guess what? he couldn't break free from the seals.

The seals where applied when weakened and was stopped by Nanana from actually trying to escape them.

Don't know why you're using feats from a weaker, less intelligent version of Kisuke to downplay him.

TYBW Kisuke >>>>> FKT Kisuke.

Senior captains don't become much stronger and Urahara didn't show anything that would help vs evolved Aizen.

No some can some can't.

?

They all become able to sense him by that point, the blonde guy was just more focused on the building appearing out of nowhere.

Doesn't matter anyway, as long as any of those guys can sense Zaraki, he can't be scaled to evolved Aizen.

 

[Tyri456]

Let’s not make up no sense stuff such as kisuke getting way smarter and stronger tho, anyway the reason is simple, Narita isn’t Kubo, and when he write he isn’t as meticulous as kubo to details, so the not feel argument is a thing he probably just forget because it is normal with more than 1 writer, he clearly think those are god tier in the novel because he write that they are and that whats matter, if they are inferior to Aizen they can still scale to 5A anyway. So this thread can be closed, I don’t see why we should change.

unless we really think he meant base kenpachi = base Aizen = full power hikone = ginjo = fullbring Ichigo gestuga.

as I said the current scaling is the more logic.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I will add this cuz I don’t remember if I put it in the og thread. But it’s verbatim stated that emotion amped Bankai Ginjo’s Getsuga = the strongest Getsuga Ichigo ever fired (which would be the one that killed Yhwach). It’s not up for debate, it’s just how it is, literal word of god statement.

And you know what’s really crazy, after the author gives us this nutty statement, the author later says that Ginjo could only “possibly” give Hikone a good fight. Meaning the author verbatim has Res Hikone capable of fighting someone who is capable of momentarily reaching TB Ichigo’s level.

 

[Deceived3596]

Let’s not make up no sense stuff such as kisuke getting way smarter and stronger

?

He quite clearly did get smarter and stronger from feats and statements in TYBW and CFYOW.

The mere fact that he scales above Mayuri intelligence wise, the same Mayuri who can seal a stronger version of Aizen while Kisuke could only seal a weaker version of Aizen that had to be weakened by Mugetsu is clear-cut proof that TYBW Kisuke > FKT Kisuke.

 

[Tyri456]

?

He quite clearly did get smarter and stronger from feats and statements in TYBW and CFYOW.

The mere fact that he scales above Mayuri intelligence wise, the same Mayuri who can seal a stronger version of Aizen while Kisuke could only seal a weaker version of Aizen that had to be weakened by Mugetsu is clear-cut proof that TYBW Kisuke > FKT Kisuke.

there are no statements that he get stronger or trained let alone getting smarter when he is already that old and reached his pinnacle, that’s blatantly Kubo narrative for character like him, Isshin Yamamoto Unohana and so on, Mayuri can only seal a version of Aizen that is already sealed so that’s not really an argument. Regardless it is still irrelevant for the thread.

 

[Deceived3596]

there are no statements that he get stronger or trained let alone getting smarter when he is already that old and reached his pinnacle, that’s blatantly Kubo narrative for character like him, Isshin Yamamoto Unohana and so on, Mayuri can only seal a version of Aizen that is already sealed so that’s not really an argument. Regardless it is still irrelevant for the thread.

We don't need statements when we got direct feats my guy.

But agree that this is derailment so let's stop this convo before it turns into an argument completely disconnected to what is on the OP.

 

[Tyri456]

You can post the feats on the general thread to show them to me but are probably just circular stuff, that can be Explained.

why don’t we close this thread? like 10 people disagree and no one agree, so it’s is just a no sense keeping this alive, this things were already addressed on the tier 5 thread.

 

[Reio35]

No some can some can't.

Bruhh zaraki is not transcendent. Theirs many reasons why some cant sense him

 

[Arcker123]

I personally need new Clarification on what’s going on rn

 

[Deceived3596]

I personally need new Clarification on what’s going on rn

Me schooling my children on Bleach scaling.

Nothing new.

 

[Hasch]

Let’s not make up no sense stuff such as kisuke getting way smarter and stronger tho, anyway the reason is simple, Narita isn’t Kubo, and when he write he isn’t as meticulous as kubo to details, so the not feel argument is a thing he probably just forget because it is normal with more than 1 writer, he clearly think those are god tier in the novel because he write that they are and that whats matter, if they are inferior to Aizen they can still scale to 5A anyway. So this thread can be closed, I don’t see why we should change.

Narita is actually more consistent on the whole transcendental thing that Kubo, but ignoring that he made Hikone weaker than Shikai Zaraki, and excluded from the action to all other top tiers for a reason.

I will add this cuz I don’t remember if I put it in the og thread. But it’s verbatim stated that emotion amped Bankai Ginjo’s Getsuga = the strongest Getsuga Ichigo ever fired (which would be the one that killed Yhwach). It’s not up for debate, it’s just how it is, literal word of god statement.

And you know what’s really crazy, after the author gives us this nutty statement, the author later says that Ginjo could only “possibly” give Hikone a good fight. Meaning the author verbatim has Res Hikone capable of fighting someone who is capable of momentarily reaching TB Ichigo’s level.

Explain how Tokinada slightly deflected that super Getsuga with Benihime despite being weaker than base Aizen.

unless we really think he meant base kenpachi = base Aizen = full power hikone = ginjo = fullbring Ichigo gestuga.

as I said the current scaling is the more logic.

I think this scaling is the more logical looking at all other characters and factions and statements at play.

 

[Arkenis]

Bruhh zaraki is not transcendent. Theirs many reasons why some cant sense him

like what

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Explain how Tokinada slightly deflected that super Getsuga with Benihime despite being weaker than base Aizen.

It’s explained in the original thread. But tldr redirecting somethings attacks doesn’t mean you scale at all. So not a contradiction.

 

[LordGinSama]

Narita is actually more consistent on the whole transcendental thing that Kubo, but ignoring that he made Hikone weaker than Shikai Zaraki, and excluded from the action to all other top tiers for a reason.

Kubo >>>> Narita's views / perspective. Kubo is the author, he has more narrative say over Nartia when it comes to the series that Kubo himself made. To argue that Narita has more say over Kubo is quite idiotic to be frank.

 

[Hasch]

It’s explained in the original thread. But tldr redirecting somethings attacks doesn’t mean you scale at all. So not a contradiction.

It's not explained, and no, Tokinada has 0 chance of doing anything to a Getsuga that can oneshot Ywach.

Kubo >>>> Narita's views / perspective. Kubo is the author, he has more narrative say over Nartia when it comes to the series that Kubo himself made. To argue that Narita has more say over Kubo is quite idiotic to be frank.

Sure think, but that's the whole point of my argument.

The upgrade is based in out of context single sentences that by themselves are nonsense because they contradict both the manga and what actually happens in the novel.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

It's not explained, and no, Tokinada has 0 chance of doing anything to a Getsuga that can oneshot Ywach.

redirecting somethings attacks doesn’t mean you scale at all.

Redirecting an attack =/= blocking the attack…

 

[Hasch]

Redirecting an attack =/= blocking the attack…

Still means he reacted and deflected an attack a million times stronger than anything he could ever do, Hanataro palming a ZnT attack from enraged Yamamoto would be more logical.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Still means he reacted and deflected an attack a million times stronger than anything he could ever do, Hanataro palming a ZnT attack from enraged Yamamoto would be more logical.

Entirely irrelevant. Because redirecting an attack doesn’t mean he scales at all. Ginjo could be 1x his level, 10x, 100x, 1000x, 0.1x, 0.01x, etc. it doesn’t matter. Tokinada has 0 scaling to this Ginjo.

 

[Hasch]

Entirely irrelevant. Because redirecting an attack doesn’t mean he scales at all. Ginjo could be 1x his level, 10x, 100x, 1000x, 0.1x, 0.01x, etc. it doesn’t matter. Tokinada has 0 scaling to this Ginjo.

Tokinada scaling is irrelevant, the point is what he did shouldn't be possible if Ginjo is that strong.


At the very least to sustain this point the text should mention Ichigo's true Bankai

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Tokinada scaling is irrelevant, the point is what he did shouldn't be possible if Ginjo is that strong.

Hasch I want you to carefully read what I’m about to tell you.

Tokinada redirected the attack, Tokinada did not interact with any of the force of the attack, he merely changed its trajectory so it would miss him.

So, as it appears you agree, Tokinada doesn’t scale then to Ginjo. If Tokinada doesn’t scale to Ginjo, then it doesn’t matter where Tokinada’s power level is, it’s not a contradiction to Ginjo being that strong. Tokinada could be wall level, and it still wouldn’t contradict a thing.

Understand?

 

[Hasch]

Hasch I want you to carefully read what I’m about to tell you.

Tokinada redirected the attack, Tokinada did not interact with any of the force of the attack, he merely changed its trajectory so it would miss him.

So, as it appears you agree, Tokinada doesn’t scale then to Ginjo. If Tokinada doesn’t scale to Ginjo, then it doesn’t matter where Tokinada’s power level is, it’s not a contradiction to Ginjo being that strong. Tokinada could be wall level, and it still wouldn’t contradict a thing.

Understand?

I understand your point, but it's an absurd and desperate point.


Would you say Tatsuki even slightly deflecting Greemy's meteorite makes sense?


Because from Tokinada to EoS Ichigo there's even more of a difference in strength.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I understand your point, but it's an absurd and desperate point.

This is an argument from incredulity. I do not care that you find it absurd. I care about facts, such as the fact that Ginjo's emotion amped Bankai Getsuga is verbatim stated by the author to be on TB Ichigo level. Not debatable.

Would you say Tatsuki even slightly deflecting Greemy's meteorite makes sense?


Because from Tokinada to EoS Ichigo there's even more of a difference in strength.

Entirely irrelevant. The difference between High 6-A and 5-A is far smaller than the difference between tier 10 and High 6-A, so what you're saying here is not only pointless to the conversation at hand, but also blatantly incorrect.

 

[Hasch]

Entirely irrelevant. The difference between High 6-A and 5-A is far smaller than the difference between tier 10 and High 6-A, so what you're saying here is not only pointless to the conversation at hand, but also blatantly incorrect.

What I'm telling you is that your interpretation of that single sentence is contradicted by every event or statement in the manga or the novel to an absurd degree, and you yourself needed an statement from Yoruichi that was meant for Ichigo to kinda make the excuse that emotions amped Ginjo to astronomical amounts whitin the context of the story.

Your interpretation gets immediately contradicted by anything Ginjo does after, or it's said to do after.

He can't even oneshot the explicitly not transcendental Hikone, he is only a decent fight, but wait.

How is that not contradicted by this, guess Aizen should have just redirected Mugetsu back then right?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I don’t think the OP has come anywhere close to sufficiently addressing my claims here, so I will wait for staff to comment before I address anything further.

I will wait for staff to comment, as you appear intent on repeating the same thing over and over again, I don't have anything to say to you.

 

[Hasch]

I will wait for staff to comment, as you appear intent on repeating the same thing over and over again, I don't have anything to say to you.

Don't try to avoid the debate now, try and defend your argument or concede, this is about your work, you should know it better than the mods.

Did I mention Hikone was equal to the same character that couldn't beat Gerard?

 

[Damage3245]

I will wait for staff to comment, as you appear intent on repeating the same thing over and over again, I don't have anything to say to you.

I think this whole revision is pretty much unfounded at this stage.

I'm not saying I'm perfectly happy with all the Bleach ratings at the moment, but the proposals of this thread aren't the way to go about changing it.

 

[Hasch]

I think this whole revision is pretty much unfounded at this stage.

I'm not saying I'm perfectly happy with all the Bleach ratings at the moment, but the proposals of this thread aren't the way to go about changing it.

Based on what?

Try and make an argument against what I said in the OP.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Looking at the orginal reasoning for the scaling, I disagree with the OP. Though I haven't read the novels myself so this is just my thoughts going off what's provided in this thread.

 

[Arkenis]

Idk the whole not being able to sense and sensing, just seems inconsistent from the novel.

 

[Hasch]

Idk the whole not being able to sense and sensing, just seems inconsistent from the novel.

The sensing thing is the base for the entire original post.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

The sensing thing is the base for the entire original post.

If by original post you mean mine, that couldn’t be farther from the truth. If you’re talking about something else, disregard this.

 

[Hasch]

If by original post you mean mine, that couldn’t be farther from the truth. If you’re talking about something else, disregard this.

Yeah, is your post.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yeah, is your post.

Ok then you’re objectively wrong and further confirming my suspicions that you merely skimmed the original upgrade thread rather than carefully reading the arguments. Anyone who was active on that thread could tell you that the “sensing argument” was not the crux of my argument.

 

[Hasch]

Ok then you’re objectively wrong and further confirming my suspicions that you merely skimmed the original upgrade thread rather than carefully reading the arguments. Anyone who was active on that thread could tell you that the “sensing argument” was not the crux of my argument.

Your argument rests on scaling Hikone to at least evolved Aizen, what completely shuts that down is the trascendental thing, either powerscalling or the sensing energy debate.

Everthing else, like ZnT or Yamamoto, has no merit to any of it at all.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Your argument rests on scaling Hikone to at least evolved Aizen, what completely shuts that down is the trascendental thing, either powerscalling or the sensing energy debate.

Everthing else, like ZnT or Yamamoto, has no merit to any of it at all.

It’s past my bed time but as I said earlier there’s a scan proving that Hikone is transcendent and shattered the boundaries between hollow and Shinigami. I’ll send it tomorrow.

 

[Deceived3596]

It’s past my bed time

Arc's a confirmed child.