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Regarding Base Goku's speed during Namek saga...
- Thread starter SchutzenDunkelZiel1217
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It seems you didn't read this part " If the Kaioken multiplier is the only thing that holds it in place then it'll be discarded in favor in it being simply inconsistent with it's showings."
The Kaioken multiplier can be discarded as a whole if there's literally nothing as in no feats to support such a massive speed upgrade. Well I'll look into this so just wait for a bit.
For now is there anything else...
The Kaioken multiplier can be discarded as a whole if there's literally nothing as in no feats to support such a massive speed upgrade. Well I'll look into this so just wait for a bit.
For now is there anything else...
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Hmmmm... I would like to see the calc for this. If it's reasonable then we'll see what can be done...FanofRPGs said:
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you know what, I suggest you do this:SchutzenDunkelZiel1217 said:
Nappa was reacting to piccolo's beam sub-relativistic+
Goku post zenkai namek saga sub-relativistic+ even if he's thousand of time faster than his saiyan saga counterpart
100% frieza sub-relativistic+ even if he's tens of thousands of times faster than Nappa
ssj goku sub-relativistic+ even if he was able to blitz frieza
with all due respect admin but you you're arguments are far from being logical, and above all of that it seems you want to downplay since frieza was blitzing piccolo who was sub-relativistic in the saiyan saga, so FTL frieza and ssj goku is normal.
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You mean this one...
Well if so I would like you to make a blog post for this as we should place something in the profils as justification for the speed if this actually gets accepted.FanofRPGs said:
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Post Zenkai Namek Sub-Relativistic+ and SSJ also Sub Relativistic+? i'm sorry but that makes little sense.Aimenaltair said:
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you know what, I suggest you do this:
Nappa was reacting to piccolo's beam sub-relativistic+
Goku post zenkai namek saga sub-relativistic+ even if he's thousand of time faster than his saiyan saga counterpart
100% frieza sub-relativistic+ even if he's tens of thousands of times faster than Nappa
ssj goku sub-relativistic+ even if he was able to blitz frieza
with all due respect admin but you you're arguments are far from being logical, and above all of that it seems you want to downplay since frieza was blitzing piccolo who was sub-relativistic in the saiyan saga, so FTL frieza and ssj goku is normal.
Well the Namek saga's speed was calculated before Toriyama confirmed that Earth to Moon distance in Dragon Ball is the same as our own. With the Saiyan saga likely being upgraded to Sub Relativistic+ in the future, this will likely affect the speed of the characters in the Namek saga.
Nappa was reacting to piccolo's beam sub-relativistic+
Goku post zenkai namek saga sub-relativistic+ even if he's thousand of time faster than his saiyan saga counterpart
100% frieza sub-relativistic+ even if he's tens of thousands of times faster than Nappa
ssj goku sub-relativistic+ even if he was able to blitz frieza
with all due respect admin but you you're arguments are far from being logical, and above all of that it seems you want to downplay since frieza was blitzing piccolo who was sub-relativistic in the saiyan saga, so FTL frieza and ssj goku is normal.
Well the Namek saga's speed was calculated before Toriyama confirmed that Earth to Moon distance in Dragon Ball is the same as our own. With the Saiyan saga likely being upgraded to Sub Relativistic+ in the future, this will likely affect the speed of the characters in the Namek saga.
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you know what, I suggest you do this:
Nappa was reacting to piccolo's beam sub-relativistic+
Goku post zenkai namek saga sub-relativistic+ even if he's thousand of time faster than his saiyan saga counterpart
100% frieza sub-relativistic+ even if he's tens of thousands of times faster than Nappa
ssj goku sub-relativistic+ even if he was able to blitz frieza
with all due respect admin but you you're arguments are far from being logical, and above all of that it seems you want to downplay since frieza was blitzing piccolo who was sub-relativistic in the saiyan saga, so FTL frieza and ssj goku is normal.
"Goku post zenkai namek saga sub-relativistic+ even if he's thousand of time faster than his saiyan saga counterpart"
Where do you get thousands of times from because nothing shown or stated supports that.
"100% frieza sub-relativistic+ even if he's tens of thousands of times faster than Nappa"
What's the proof that he's tens of thousands of time faster. Because nothing shown or stated supports this.
Sigh. The person who made that comment accepted what I said. And we do need feats for this.
Also I'm surprised you're saying that my answers aren't being logical. Because I'm using all the logic I can. I've already stated why multipliers aren't accepted yet you completely ignored all of my replies and kept talking about the SSJ multipliers. Which is derailing this thread. I could've already blocked ya for that but I didn't and won't.
@CaptainFalcon64: Tell ya what bro. As an example Bankai Ichigo in SS arc is mach 29 and two years later he's much much faster and has had multiplie upgrades and what do we rate him as oh yes mach 29+. Simply because we can't get a definite speed without using multipliers.
Seriously this thread is to discuss feats which we may have missed. And judging by what FanofRPGs is already saying it would seem as though DBZ characters might be FTL without using the SSJ multipliers and with feats so you shouldn't be sad upgrades are already due.
Nappa was reacting to piccolo's beam sub-relativistic+
Goku post zenkai namek saga sub-relativistic+ even if he's thousand of time faster than his saiyan saga counterpart
100% frieza sub-relativistic+ even if he's tens of thousands of times faster than Nappa
ssj goku sub-relativistic+ even if he was able to blitz frieza
with all due respect admin but you you're arguments are far from being logical, and above all of that it seems you want to downplay since frieza was blitzing piccolo who was sub-relativistic in the saiyan saga, so FTL frieza and ssj goku is normal.
"Goku post zenkai namek saga sub-relativistic+ even if he's thousand of time faster than his saiyan saga counterpart"
Where do you get thousands of times from because nothing shown or stated supports that.
"100% frieza sub-relativistic+ even if he's tens of thousands of times faster than Nappa"
What's the proof that he's tens of thousands of time faster. Because nothing shown or stated supports this.
Sigh. The person who made that comment accepted what I said. And we do need feats for this.
Also I'm surprised you're saying that my answers aren't being logical. Because I'm using all the logic I can. I've already stated why multipliers aren't accepted yet you completely ignored all of my replies and kept talking about the SSJ multipliers. Which is derailing this thread. I could've already blocked ya for that but I didn't and won't.
@CaptainFalcon64: Tell ya what bro. As an example Bankai Ichigo in SS arc is mach 29 and two years later he's much much faster and has had multiplie upgrades and what do we rate him as oh yes mach 29+. Simply because we can't get a definite speed without using multipliers.
Seriously this thread is to discuss feats which we may have missed. And judging by what FanofRPGs is already saying it would seem as though DBZ characters might be FTL without using the SSJ multipliers and with feats so you shouldn't be sad upgrades are already due.
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I was being sarcastic bro.CaptainFalcon64 said:
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Hmmmm... sigh. Is there anything else you guys wanna bring up. If there is then please do so. I'm here to hear all your arguments and reasoning regarding the changes that are to be made...
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Piccolo's beam is not sub relativistic. But relativistic.
Relativistic (more or less): 10% - 50% light speed = 30 000 km/s - 150 000 km/s.
Piccolo's beam (low hypothesis). 5 seconds to reach the moon in db kai.
earth-moon: 385 000 km/5 = 77 000 km/s.
(high hypothesis): 4 seconds:
385 000 km/4 = 96 250 km/s.
Conclusion: Piccolo's beam = relativistic speed in both cases.
So if Nappa managed to avoid such a quick attack, that makes him at relativistic speed. And that makes not sense at all to say 100% frieza is relativistic as well since he is like 10 000 time faster than nappa.
Anyway if Nappa is at this speed
then Goku and vegeta (saiyan saga) are relativistic +
Someone as fast as Burter (he blitzed vegeta who was stronger at that moment than on earth) = ftl
Ginue = ftl as well (faster than Burter since he touched Goku).
Frieza first; 2nd form and 3rd form = ftl +
Vegeta and piccolo (fight against frieza) = ftl +
Goku and final form frieza 100% = mftl (Goku is like 100 time stronger and faster than vegeta as SSJ since at that moment base goku was stronger than vegeta).
Relativistic (more or less): 10% - 50% light speed = 30 000 km/s - 150 000 km/s.
Piccolo's beam (low hypothesis). 5 seconds to reach the moon in db kai.
earth-moon: 385 000 km/5 = 77 000 km/s.
(high hypothesis): 4 seconds:
385 000 km/4 = 96 250 km/s.
Conclusion: Piccolo's beam = relativistic speed in both cases.
So if Nappa managed to avoid such a quick attack, that makes him at relativistic speed. And that makes not sense at all to say 100% frieza is relativistic as well since he is like 10 000 time faster than nappa.
Anyway if Nappa is at this speed
then Goku and vegeta (saiyan saga) are relativistic +
Someone as fast as Burter (he blitzed vegeta who was stronger at that moment than on earth) = ftl
Ginue = ftl as well (faster than Burter since he touched Goku).
Frieza first; 2nd form and 3rd form = ftl +
Vegeta and piccolo (fight against frieza) = ftl +
Goku and final form frieza 100% = mftl (Goku is like 100 time stronger and faster than vegeta as SSJ since at that moment base goku was stronger than vegeta).
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"Goku post zenkai namek saga sub-relativistic+ even if he's thousand of time faster than his saiyan saga counterpart"SchutzenDunkelZiel1217 said:
Where do you get thousands of times from because nothing shown or stated supports that.
"100% frieza sub-relativistic+ even if he's tens of thousands of times faster than Nappa"
What's the proof that he's tens of thousands of time faster. Because nothing shown or stated supports this.
Sigh. The person who made that comment accepted what I said. And we do need feats for this.
Also I'm surprised you're saying that my answers aren't being logical. Because I'm using all the logic I can. I've already stated why multipliers aren't accepted yet you completely ignored all of my replies and kept talking about the SSJ multipliers. Which is derailing this thread. I could've already blocked ya for that but I didn't and won't.
@CaptainFalcon64: Tell ya what bro. As an example Bankai Ichigo in SS arc is mach 29 and two years later he's much much faster and has had multiplie upgrades and what do we rate him as oh yes mach 29+. Simply because we can't get a definite speed without using multipliers.
Seriously this thread is to discuss feats which we may have missed. And judging by what FanofRPGs is already saying it would seem as though DBZ characters might be FTL without using the SSJ multipliers and with feats so you shouldn't be sad upgrades are already due.
OK, as you wish.
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This thread was about Base Goku's speed during the Namek arc, then Saiyan saga characters and SSJ multipliers were brought into the discussion.
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Sigh I've already made a calc in the replies with a timeframe which is more acceptable and not assumed. That's how Piccolo's beam got to be Sub-Relativistic. If you want to look at it just scroll up and you'll find it...Jeune fou said:
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So basically you're saying Goku is not at light speed because they said the death beam was light? But Frieza already used the death beam in his first form (and Gohan, Krillin and vegeta were not touched by it).
Also I'm sorry but you still haven't prove anything but the fact Frieza's attack was described as "light".
You never demonstrated Nappa and other saiyan saga characters are slower than relativistic (because Piccolo's beam is still at relativistic speed).
Also we know speeds are improving a lot from a saga to another.
Because Goku could easily blitz nappa without kaioken. So that make Goku and vegeta relativistic + (since nappa is relativistic).
Please just show us piccolo's beam is not relativistic to prove you're right.
Also I'm sorry but you still haven't prove anything but the fact Frieza's attack was described as "light".
You never demonstrated Nappa and other saiyan saga characters are slower than relativistic (because Piccolo's beam is still at relativistic speed).
Also we know speeds are improving a lot from a saga to another.
Because Goku could easily blitz nappa without kaioken. So that make Goku and vegeta relativistic + (since nappa is relativistic).
Please just show us piccolo's beam is not relativistic to prove you're right.
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Piccolo's beam is at Relativistic speed huh. Buhahahahahaha... yeah good joke. Or perhaps you didn't see this calc below. Just scroll down and look.
And then there's the statement that Goku apparently got 10 times faster and stronger after training in 100X gravity. Which FanofRPGs is talking about.
That's all the progress for now...
Oh btw if I'm right or if you don't have a reasonable answer to this then well bad things will happen...
The timeframe is from this. Since timeframes from calcs are more accepted than timeframes based on cinematic time I used the timeframe from the calc instead of the cinematic time. No calculator would use Cinematic time if they already had a timeframe from another calc since there's always a high possibility of abuse of cinematic time happening all the time.SchutzenDunkelZiel1217 said:
And then there's the statement that Goku apparently got 10 times faster and stronger after training in 100X gravity. Which FanofRPGs is talking about.
That's all the progress for now...
Oh btw if I'm right or if you don't have a reasonable answer to this then well bad things will happen...
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Oh btw if I'm right or if you don't have a reasonable answer to this then well bad things will happen...SchutzenDunkelZiel1217 said:
I don't like the way you're talking to us admin, bad things like what?
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Ah now I understand your point of view. it's because you're using the old anime. It was indeed slower in the old anime (17,84 s indeed).
But in dbkai it's far faster (it take no more than 5 seconds to his beam to reach the moon). The real question is: what do we use use? Dbkai? Or the old anime.
But in dbkai it's far faster (it take no more than 5 seconds to his beam to reach the moon). The real question is: what do we use use? Dbkai? Or the old anime.
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he's using the manga's timeframeJeune fou said:
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No worries. Well if there's anything else you wanna bring up for changes to be made then please go ahead...
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i don't envy what Schutzen has to deal with here. bleh. Paitence over 9000
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Ah yes. Like I said bad things are happening to me I guess but it isn't really what I would consider as bad. Anyway I'm gonna turn in for the night soon so if you guys bring up anything new I'll check it in a bit....
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Neither do I. I agree with his calc that the characters in the Saiyan saga are at least Sub Relativistic, don't understand why people are arguing with him about that.LordAizenSama said:
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Relativistic huh perhaps basing on the Kaioken they might be Relativistic... I'll look into this in a bit. For now I need to turn in for the night.Jeune fou said:
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From what I see from Dragonball, Ki is applied universally across all of ones stats. It has been consistently shown throughout the entirety of the franchise that upping ones Ki through training will positively affect all of that persons stats.
Before Goku was sorely outclassed by Frieza in all areas before becoming a Super Saiyan. But when he achieved SSj1, he was able to at least (and outclass) Frieza in terms of speed.
You could claim that "we don't know exactly how fast it makes him," but it would be absurd to think that it doesn't increase his stats at all. With all due respect @SchutzenDunkelZiel1217, stat raises may not be applied across all areas in Bleach, but DB isn't Bleach and has been shown to work differently in terms of increasing power.
I just wanted to clear that up. If someone disagrees then I would like to hear why, seeing as this has been a consistent theme throughout the series as I said above...
Before Goku was sorely outclassed by Frieza in all areas before becoming a Super Saiyan. But when he achieved SSj1, he was able to at least (and outclass) Frieza in terms of speed.
You could claim that "we don't know exactly how fast it makes him," but it would be absurd to think that it doesn't increase his stats at all. With all due respect @SchutzenDunkelZiel1217, stat raises may not be applied across all areas in Bleach, but DB isn't Bleach and has been shown to work differently in terms of increasing power.
I just wanted to clear that up. If someone disagrees then I would like to hear why, seeing as this has been a consistent theme throughout the series as I said above...
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I'd say, based on that feat, Saiyan Saga characters are Sub-Relativistic+, stronger Frieza Saga and a fair amount of Cell Saga characters are Relativistic, the strongest Cell Saga and most Buu Saga characters are Relativistic+, Buuhan is At least Relativistic+, likely higher and Vegito is FTL.
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Well given that Jeune fou reminded me of the Goku having to use Kaioken 3X against Vegeta they may be Relativistic during the Saiyan Saga...
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@Jeune yeah that's all good, but just scroll up and look at all the arguing that's been going on,over the same stuff he already explained, lol Hes been going at this for hours, works hard though.
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@Sheoth I thought that, because of the unknown speed increase, whatever standard multiplier we had (SSJ1 for example) we would halve that to find the speed as a lowball kinda deal (SO 25X Speed instead)
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@Sheoth: Bro for Bleach Bankai Ichigo is mach 29+ for blitzing someone who can move at mach 29. He got his ass handed to him by Grimmjow. And we still rate Grimmjow as mach 29+. He later fights Grimmjow on equal footing with an upgrade he's still rated as mach 29+. Get's bltized by Ulquiorra and he later blitzes Ulquiorra with a new form and both are still rated as mach 29+. Finally after all of this Aizen makes Bankai Ichigo seem like a statue and Aizen's still rated as being mach 29+. Finally after two years he regains his powers again and gains the reiatsu of all the captains and Vice captains and he's still rated as mach 29+. Ok do you not see anything wrong with this.
I used the bankai multiplier to make things a bit more evened out and yet it wasn't accepted. And the whole reason it wasn't accepted was because of the whole multiplier thing. So I don't see what's right with using a multiplier for DBZ when it couldn't already be used for other franchises...
I used the bankai multiplier to make things a bit more evened out and yet it wasn't accepted. And the whole reason it wasn't accepted was because of the whole multiplier thing. So I don't see what's right with using a multiplier for DBZ when it couldn't already be used for other franchises...
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@Schutzen wow, there is definitely a problem there. i know at one point we had MHS starrk and Co, never understood why that got removed..
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Oh now i see, fair enough i guess so now ssj goku is at the same speed as base goku, because bankai ichigo didn't get the multiplier, come on bro don't be that guy.SchutzenDunkelZiel1217 said:
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