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Red bitch versus Green bitch (Makima versus Tatsumaki)

Zabazab said:
Cooking & complete digestion of every part of a person chemically breaks down biomatter and extracts usable molecules. It'd be a level of biological destruction comparable to Mid-High.
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It's not. Based on every dish we see there would still be a lot of living cells in his food, and digestion does not kill every cell.
Zabazab said:
Does her ESP have any feats similar to sensing the change from dead to living?
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I don't really think she needs to have a feat like that. If Tatsumaki is aware of Makima's presence (As in, she knows what Makima "feels" like through seeing her the first time), she'd just sense the moment she came back with her ESP and ES.

Zabazab said:
If you mean the Rock Guy, he turned to dust because he's made of Rock. The fodder behind her were reduced to splatters/red mist.
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Btw the visuals don't even necessarily mean much. You can damage cells/molecules/atoms while still having the target be in-tact. Here, Drive Knight senses that Psykos' remains were damaged at the cellular level.
 
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I mean she did basically erase Evil Eye
 
Tatsumaki fans on their way to cite misinformation on the resurrection of a character they know nothing about as the word of god and vote on it
 
Phoenks said:
It's not. Based on every dish we see there would still be a lot of living cells in his food, and digestion does not kill every cell.
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Cooking & reducing someone's entire body to faeces involves a level of chemical burning comparable to Mid-High; enzymes break down cell proteins into polypeptides, and then further down into amino acids. Even DNA gets broken down into singular nucleotides. Makima's proteins would be denatured via cooking, and then broken down into essential molecules.

But again, it's not even regeneration, there is no "level" to it. It just transforms perceived attacks. I know you won't agree with that, but that's mechanically how it functions.

Phoenks said:
I don't really think she needs to have a feat like that. If Tatsumaki is aware of Makima's presence (As in, she knows what Makima "feels" like through seeing her the first time), she'd just sense the moment she came back with her ESP and ES.
Click to expand...
Her best feat of ESP looks like quickly locating people she's actively looking for. Does she have any ESP feats of passively detecting changes in people? Like feeling someone die for example?
 
Zabazab said:
Cooking & reducing someone's entire body to faeces involves a level of chemical burning comparable to Mid-High; enzymes break down cell proteins into polypeptides, and then further down into amino acids. Even DNA gets broken down into singular nucleotides. Makima's proteins would be denatured via cooking, and then broken down into essential molecules.

But again, it's not even regeneration, there is no "level" to it. It just transforms perceived attacks. I know you won't agree with that, but that's mechanically how it functions.


Her best feat of ESP looks like quickly locating people she's actively looking for. Does she have any ESP feats of passively detecting changes in people? Like feeling someone die for example?
Click to expand...
Tatsumaki literally being unable to sense evil eye’s energy when it was still alive 🗿
 
Zabazab said:
Cooking & reducing someone's entire body to faeces involves a level of chemical burning comparable to Mid-High; enzymes break down cell proteins into polypeptides, and then further down into amino acids. Even DNA gets broken down into singular nucleotides. Makima's proteins would be denatured via cooking, and then broken down into essential molecules.
Click to expand...
That's not enough to survive the AP gap between them. Makima can POSSIBLY regenerate from vapor, however Tatsumaki has enough AP here to turn her to atoms casually.
Zabazab said:
But again, it's not even regeneration, there is no "level" to it. It just transforms perceived attacks. I know you won't agree with that, but that's mechanically how it functions.
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True it isn't quite regeneration but there is a limit to it. She can't come back from full on deconstruction or erasure.
 
LordGinSama said:
That's not enough to survive the AP gap between them. Makima can POSSIBLY regenerate from vapor, however Tatsumaki has enough AP here to turn her to atoms casually.
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Has Tatsumaki ever turned people into atoms? or just into particles too small for us to see in a manga panel? Are we giving people atomization skill because their AP should let them have it? Is Goku gonna beyond sub-atomize his opponents because he punches really-really hard now? No he is not lmao. Breaking molecular and atomic bonds is not just assumed because of AP difference.

Someone that is planetary but has never even shown that his attacks generate heat and are all blunt in nature is not gonna be able to bypass a 10-A's regeneration from vaporization

Unrelated to Gin, but before Phoenk's goofy tries to pull a fast one as he said in discord, the victory conditions everyone is FRAing for Tatsumaki are under the pretense that Makima has no fighting chance against Tatsumaki so this would not be added to the profiles if that is indeed true. Because surprise surprise, that would be a stomp even if we argue it is not, your reasoning is winning over ours so.
 
Arcker123 said:
A 5-B is absolutely vaporizing a 10-A with his attacks.

Vaporization is a product of sufficient enough energy, which would definitely be the case with a 10-A and 5-B
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So Goku and Saitama are getting sub-atomization? Hell, beyond that frankly. They should have enough power to break the protons and neutrons apart of opponents.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
So Goku and Saitama are getting sub-atomization? Hell, beyond that frankly. They should have enough power to break the protons and neutrons apart of opponents.
Click to expand...
No, it’s just a product of how energy from attack potency works in relation to damage, not hax. You don’t need any special hax to vaporize something that much inferior to an attacks energy.

There’s a reason regular ass punches can vaporize large chunks of ground despite not having any heat hax, the sheer energy of the punches can induce such an effect.
 
...May I remind you that sub-atomization can also be a byproduct of sheer energy in real life? It's not hax. If we are gonna do it to vaporization from characters that never once demonstrated to generate heat from their attacks in their story we should start doing the same for sub-atomization.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
...May I remind you that sub-atomization can also be a byproduct of sheer energy in real life? It's not hax. If we are gonna do it to vaporization from characters that never once demonstrated to generate heat from their attacks in their story we should start doing the same for sub-atomization.
Click to expand...
I mean, I personally don’t see an issue with assuming an attack with a substantially higher AP than someone’s durability can vaporize or even atomize.

Do you think it’s absurd to say a punch from UI Goku would atomize your average Joe?

It wouldn’t be a hax for the reason I mentioned. If we assume AP can pulverize people, we can assume it at least vaporizes, something that’s been accepted for versus threads.
 
Arcker123 said:
I mean, I personally don’t see an issue with assuming an attack with a substantially higher AP than someone’s durability can vaporize or even atomize.

Do you think it’s absurd to say a punch from UI Goku would atomize your average Joe?

It wouldn’t be a hax for the reason I mentioned. If we assume AP can pulverize people, we can assume it at least vaporizes, something that’s been accepted for versus threads.
Click to expand...
If he followed all the physics then Goku's Kamehameha would need to be 4747584.58173 times stronger than Majin But to vaporize him like he did or if he can do that just fine with his AP level then his punches against him should be vaporizing Majin Buu. Same for Gohan SSJ2 VS Super Perfect Cell. You know why we do not do this? Because it is inconsistent with the capabilities displayed in the series with no mechanic behind them to justify it.

I think that characters should not attain destructive effects beyond those that they have displayed because this is inconsistent with their actual capabilities in the series. If you believe in this conviction so much then we should go ahead and make the proposal to add the 4747584.58173 times AP gap to be added into the versus threads rule just like the one shot gap and while we are at it atomization and sub-atomization as well.

Also, people with much higher durability should resist dura neg from atomization and sub-atomization and they should get their dura neg denotation removed.

Unless it has been accepted as a site rule what has been accepted before in versus threads before is no different from you saying it rn.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
If he followed all the physics then Goku's Kamehameha would need to be 4747584.58173 times stronger than Majin But to vaporize him like he did or if he can do that just fine with his AP level then his punches against him should be vaporizing Majin Buu. Same for Gohan SSJ2 VS Super Perfect Cell. You know why we do not do this? Because it is inconsistent with the capabilities displayed in the series with no mechanic behind them to justify it.
Click to expand...
The specifics of any given verse are completely irrelevant. Just because Dragon Ball characters can’t vaporize with the sheer ap gaps is completely irrelevant to the claim that Energy can induce these levels of destruction.

Even in the One Shot page, the error in this reasoning is apparent.
PhantomØ4 said:
I think that characters should not attain destructive effects beyond those that they have displayed because this is inconsistent with their actual capabilities in the series series. If you believe in this conviction so much then we should go ahead and make the proposal to add the 4747584.58173 times AP gap to be added into the versus threads rule just like the one shot gap and while we are at it atomization and sub-atomization as well.
Click to expand...
This is all some ridiculous cope.

Look, energy can vaporize, we both agree on that, so it stands to reason that a sufficienty energy could vaporize a sufficiently low durability. That’s just how energy works, and the specifics of a given verse are completely irrelevant, or you couldn’t put a numerical value on one shots at all.
PhantomØ4 said:
Unless it has been accepted as a site rule what has been accepted before in versus threads before is no different from you saying it rn.
Click to expand...
There doesn’t need to be a specific rule. This is just how AP works, and is an entailment of how we treat that we’ve used for years, that alone is reason enough to accept it.

We’ve always accepted a sufficient enough AP gap would be enough to vaporize somebody, that’s just how Ap works.
 
Ok. I am making the proposal to add this on the site rules so there is no further coping in the future. I will also eliminate the status of sub-atomization as durability negation as high enough durability would be enough to resist the energy being applied on the atomic bonds.

I will remind you that Gin said atomization btw, not vaporization.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
Ok. I am making the proposal to add this on the site rules so there is no further coping in the future. I will also eliminate the status of sub-atomization as durability negation as high enough durability would be enough to resist the energy being applied on the atomic bonds.
Click to expand...
What a ridiculous straw man.

The fact that energy alone can break bonds doesn’t mean that breaking bonds can’t be done with hax, or that all forms of deconstruction could be resisted by durability.
PhantomØ4 said:
I will remind you that Gin said atomization btw, not vaporization.
Click to expand...
I’m not a Gin *********, nor did I ever even imply I was defending his view. I began our conversation by responding to a point I disagreed with here:
Arcker123 said:
A 5-B is absolutely vaporizing a 10-A with his attacks.

Vaporization is a product of sufficient enough energy, which would definitely be the case with a 10-A and 5-B
Click to expand...
I was responding to the previous post, in which you claimed a 5-B punch couldn’t vaporize a 10-A. That’s something I, and I think most people here would find ridiculous.

Whatever Gin did or did not say is of no relevance.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
Has Tatsumaki ever turned people into atoms? or just into particles too small for us to see in a manga panel? Are we giving people atomization skill because their AP should let them have it? Is Goku gonna beyond sub-atomize his opponents because he punches really-really hard now? No he is not lmao. Breaking molecular and atomic bonds is not just assumed because of AP difference.

Someone that is planetary but has never even shown that his attacks generate heat and are all blunt in nature is not gonna be able to bypass a 10-A's regeneration from vaporization

Unrelated to Gin, but before Phoenk's goofy tries to pull a fast one as he said in discord, the victory conditions everyone is FRAing for Tatsumaki are under the pretense that Makima has no fighting chance against Tatsumaki so this would not be added to the profiles if that is indeed true. Because surprise surprise, that would be a stomp even if we argue it is not, your reasoning is winning over ours so.
Click to expand...
Well as shown before she has completely destroyed the bodies fodder compared to her and she did indeed crushed Psykorochi's body on the celullar level

Anyway this match is wack as hell, make Makima vs Evil Eye now that would be interesting
 
I think I saw this brought up somewhere about Tatsumaki not caring about the damage citizens or something? This is ofc not true, even when bloodlusted, we know she was concerned about not even being able to save all fubukis men and such. In the end she does her job "properly" and is concerned with saving people. Despite how she acts which of course is basically like a shell she built up for reasons. Least from what I understand

But yeah I do believe this is kinda a stomp for her so
 
Last edited:
This fight can not be added as both sides are arguing for a stomp.
 
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