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In a previous QNA thread, I asked some questions regarding Re:Zero feats that I think may have been overlooked up to now, and decided to finally get around to making a CRT about it.


Argument 1-The Dragon Sword

The Dragon Sword's scabbard is remarked as indestructible, and can effortlessly withstand attacks from Regulus Corneas using his Authority of Greed.

As I'm sure everyone here is aware of, the Authority of Greed allows Regulus to stop time for any object he wants. When he does this and uses it as an attack, the object is explicitly unstoppable. Attacks from him are unbound by physical laws such as gravity, air resistance, and conservation of momentum. By definition, his attacks move at light speed and carry infinite force.

The Dragon Sword's scabbard also resisted the direct gravitational force of, and destroyed, a singularity. Necessitating high-universal durability.

The Dragon Sword's scabbard, despite its apparent invulnerability, was once damaged by the claws of a dragon, believed to be Volcanica, implying high-universal AP, which Reinhard would scale to.

Counter Arguments;

Authority of Greed is just hax, not something we can scale, measure, or define properly-The entire reason why it is unstoppable is because it cannot be effected by its environment no matter what, that is explicitly what it is, not just "magic ability that destroys anything". It, by definition, carries infinite force because it cannot be effected, slowed, or stopped by any means within the physical universe. Either way, you can disregard this much if you want, but not Al Karum.

Al Karum is not a legitimate black hole feat-It is, I will return to this later in the second portion of this post.

We don't know if its durability changed over time-This is true, but there is no indication that its durability was lower when it was scratched, either way, I reiterate, I am also fine with a possibly or likely rating, and this would fall in line with that.

Argument 2-Al Karum

Besides the Dragon Sword's scaling, Reinhard himself was at the singularity and partially resisted its gravitational force. This is additionally an extremely nerfed Reinhard, far beneath his usual physical capacity, whose arm, while badly damaged, remained intact, and he still had enough strength to thrust the Dragon Sword into the singularity in the process of this. This would necessitate high-universal durability, and Reinhard obviously scales to his durability.

Al Karum is not a legitimate black hole feat-The relevant part of this descripted scene begins with "a magical black sphere that generated extreme gravity was born behind Reinhard. It was a rehash of a spell that had not worked back during the time of around eight-thousand loops-- no, in this extreme situation, "Aldeberan" had also broken past its limits and evolved the spell to the next level."

It is not referring to this attack as a simple enhanced gravity zone, it describes that as its original form, and then continues by explicitly stating the following; "What emerged there was not just a powerful force field that exerted an extremely heavy gravitational force. What appeared was a destructive singularity of mass, similar to a black hole, which warped space by concentrating an amount of Mana large enough to bring down a star into a single point."

It is not just gravity manip, it is a singularity, the narrator COULD NOT MAKE THIS MORE CLEAR. When it says Al Karum is only "similar to a black hole", this is evidently EITHER a misunderstanding of what a black hole is, or what Tappei means is that it isn't a naturally occurring black hole as it was produced via magic. A black hole is not an actual thing, it is a result of a singularity's existence, a region around the singularity. And the final sentence in that paragraph, "bring down a star into a single point", is the absolute confirmation.

Explaining black holes simply-A singularity, as its name suggests, is a singular point in space. The utmost density that any singular mass in the entire universe can attain after being compressed to its Schwarzschild Radius. Density and mass both correlate to gravity, but I won't get in depth about physics here, what is relevant is understanding why density is so important.

The closer you get to an object with a higher density, the stronger its more compact atoms' gravity is on your own atoms, this is why neutron stars or white dwarfs have such higher surface gravity than Earth despite being so much smaller. They still possess much greater mass than Earth, but their mass is compressed into a smaller radius, which causes the atoms to pull on you more strongly at close distance.

A singularity is a SINGLE point in space, it possesses 0 dimensionality. No surface, no width or depth, no radius. At that ridiculous level of density, density is defined as literally mathematically infinite. And as such, gravity at the singularity is also infinite.

The narrator saying that Al Karum can pull down a star into a singular point, is the express and direct definition of what makes something a singularity.

Counter Argument I Expect to See;


It is inconsistent-...Is it? What anti-feats does Reinhard exactly have? Is there a moment where Reinhard failed to destroy a physical object that I'm forgetting about? Is there a point where his durability was exceeded by something both finite and legitimately measurable?

Sure, I do agree that is is not inherently consistent in the context of "Feats that Reinhard has on a general basis". But it is not inconsistent in the form of "This is beyond what Reinhard is normally capable of.", there is a HUGE difference in context between those things.

Reinhard is consistently a monster among monsters, the pinnacle of power that all warriors in the world envy to attain, the only times he's even shown signs of frailty in any regard are when severely weakened or allowing himself to be damaged.

Reinhard himself can casually split apart space with his normal attacks, is it so hard to think that his AP and durability may just be stupidly high compared to DC feats we've observed in the series? Because I don't really think so.

Argument 3 (Extra Argument);

This is more for the Dragon Sword specifically with Reinhard wielding it.

At the end of Arc 3's second loop, the Sun sets into night time. Yet, in the Graveyard's 2nd Trial, it displays Reinhard's feat as apparently changing the time to day.

The context of "world" can only mean planet or "everything", meaning this feat most likely involved Reinhard destroying the RZ universe and recreating it from nothing.
 
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In a previous QNA thread, I asked some questions regarding Re:Zero feats that I think may have been overlooked up to now, and decided to finally get around to making a CRT about it.


Argument 1-The Dragon Sword

The Dragon Sword's scabbard is remarked as indestructible, and can effortlessly withstand attacks from Regulus Corneas using his Authority of Greed.

As I'm sure everyone here is aware of, the Authority of Greed allows Regulus to stop time for any object he wants. When he does this and uses it as an attack, the object is explicitly unstoppable. Attacks from him are unbound by physical laws such as gravity, air resistance, and conservation of momentum. By definition, his attacks move at light speed and carry infinite force.

The Dragon Sword's scabbard also resisted the direct gravitational force of, and destroyed, a singularity. Necessitating high-universal durability.

The Dragon Sword's scabbard, despite its apparent invulnerability, was once damaged by the claws of a dragon, believed to be Volcanica, implying high-universal AP, which Reinhard would scale to.

Counter Arguments;

Authority of Greed is just hax, not something we can scale, measure, or define properly-The entire reason why it is unstoppable is because it cannot be effected by its environment no matter what, that is explicitly what it is, not just "magic ability that destroys anything". It, by definition, carries infinite force because it cannot be effected, slowed, or stopped by any means within the physical universe. Either way, you can disregard this much if you want, but not Al Karum.

Al Karum is not a legitimate black hole feat-It is, I will return to this later in the second portion of this post.

We don't know if its durability changed over time-This is true, but there is no indication that its durability was lower when it was scratched, either way, I reiterate, I am also fine with a possibly or likely rating, and this would fall in line with that.
I agree with your points, the fact that we dont know when the dragon mark was made on it, before or after its creation or after the indestructible properties were applied does muddle things up a bit but I am fine with a possibly/likely rating.

I did also like to mention that Regulus's authority allows freedom from all concepts too. Take that as you will.
Argument 2-Al Karum

Besides the Dragon Sword's scaling, Reinhard himself was at the singularity and partially resisted its gravitational force. This is additionally an extremely nerfed Reinhard, far beneath his usual physical capacity, whose arm, while badly damaged, remained intact, and he still had enough strength to thrust the Dragon Sword into the singularity in the process of this. This would necessitate high-universal durability, and Reinhard obviously scales to his durability.

Al Karum is not a legitimate black hole feat-The relevant part of this descripted scene begins with "a magical black sphere that generated extreme gravity was born behind Reinhard. It was a rehash of a spell that had not worked back during the time of around eight-thousand loops-- no, in this extreme situation, "Aldeberan" had also broken past its limits and evolved the spell to the next level."

It is not referring to this attack as a simple enhanced gravity zone, it describes that as its original form, and then continues by explicitly stating the following; "What emerged there was not just a powerful force field that exerted an extremely heavy gravitational force. What appeared was a destructive singularity of mass, similar to a black hole, which warped space by concentrating an amount of Mana large enough to bring down a star into a single point."

It is not just gravity manip, it is a singularity, the narrator COULD NOT MAKE THIS MORE CLEAR. When it says Al Karum is only "similar to a black hole", this is evidently EITHER a misunderstanding of what a black hole is, or what Tappei means is that it isn't a naturally occurring black hole as it was produced via magic. A black hole is not an actual thing, it is a result of a singularity's existence, a region around the singularity. And the final sentence in that paragraph, "bring down a star into a single point", is the absolute confirmation.

Explaining black holes simply-A singularity, as its name suggests, is a singular point in space. The utmost density that any singular mass in the entire universe can attain after being compressed to its Schwarzschild Radius. Density and mass both correlate to gravity, but I won't get in depth about physics here, what is relevant is understanding why density is so important.

The closer you get to an object with a higher density, the stronger its more compact atoms' gravity is on your own atoms, this is why neutron stars or white dwarfs have such higher surface gravity than Earth despite being so much smaller. They still possess much greater mass than Earth, but their mass is compressed into a smaller radius, which causes the atoms to pull on you more strongly at close distance.

A singularity is a SINGLE point in space, it possesses 0 dimensionality. No surface, no width or depth, no radius. At that ridiculous level of density, density is defined as literally mathematically infinite. And as such, gravity at the singularity is also infinite.

The narrator saying that Al Karum can pull down a star into a singular point, is the express and direct definition of what makes something a singularity.

Counter Argument I Expect to See;


It is inconsistent-...Is it? What anti-feats does Reinhard exactly have? Is there a moment where Reinhard failed to destroy a physical object that I'm forgetting about? Is there a point where his durability was exceeded by something both finite and legitimately measurable?

Sure, I do agree that is is not inherently consistent in the context of "Feats that Reinhard has on a general basis". But it is not inconsistent in the form of "This is beyond what Reinhard is normally capable of.", there is a HUGE difference in context between those things.

Reinhard is consistently a monster among monsters, the pinnacle of power that all warriors in the world envy to attain, the only times he's even shown signs of frailty in any regard are when severely weakened or allowing himself to be damaged.

Reinhard himself can casually split apart space with his normal attacks, is it so hard to think that his AP and durability may just be stupidly high compared to DC feats we've observed in the series? Because I don't really think so.
Agree with most of this, i am neutral on a few things in this but i will address them later
Argument 3 (Extra Argument);

This is more for the Dragon Sword specifically with Reinhard wielding it.

At the end of Arc 3's second loop, the Sun sets into night time. Yet, in the Graveyard's 2nd Trial, it displays Reinhard's feat as apparently changing the time to day.

The context of "world" can only mean planet or "everything", meaning this feat most likely involved Reinhard destroying the RZ universe and recreating it from nothing.
I am neutral on this for now, I want to see what other people think about this first
 
Resisting the pull from being near the black hole is not a high universal feat. Reinhard himself did not touch the singularity, only the Dragon Sword did. Giving it a high universal durability rating would be fine, but not Reinhard. Him being damaged just from being near the black hole and holding the dragon sword as it cut it is actually an anti-feat for the idea that he has high universal durability.

As for Volcanica, since it seems like dragon attacks have multiple forms of hax including spacial manipulation and conceptual death hax akin to the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception I can't agree with assuming this to be a result of raw power.

I think for now a possibly high universal rating for the Dragon Sword and the Dragon Sword alone would be reasonable. Reinhard himself physically is blatantly far inferior to the power of the Dragon Sword and provably incapable of surviving actual contact with a singularity.
 
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As for Volcanica, since it seems like dragon attacks have multiple forms of hax including spacial manipulation and conceptual death hax akin to the mystic eyes of death perception I can't agree with assuming this to be a result of raw power.
.
help what

Regeneration Negation (At least High-Godly; Because of Shiki killing the concept of "you," wounds dealt through the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception will not heal even after a conceptual regeneration of the being), Non-Physical Interaction, Conceptual Manipulation (Can kill someone in a conceptual level and sometimes can "kill" concepts), Existence Erasure (Stabbing the points kills a "thing"'s existence, erasing it. Permanently killed Roa in this fashion), Immortality Negation (1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 and 8), Accelerated Development (Abilities. His eyes grow in potency the more he uses them),
 
Resisting the pull from being nearby the black hole is not a high universal feat. Reinhard himself did not touch the singularity, only the dragon sword did. Giving it a high universal durability rating would be fine, but not Reinhard. Him being damaged just from being near the black hole and holding the dragon sword as it cut it is actually an anti-feat for the idea that he has high universal durability.
That's where it becomes a matter of conjecture regarding how close he actually was. (Which imo is certainly within touching distance, Al Karum was spawned directly behind him, he was surprised, got hurt, became stronger from the DP of Shedding Blood, then grabbed the Dragon Sword and used it)

Even at just a few feet away though, the gravity at that distance to a singularity still would be unimaginable, likely more than quadrillions of times stronger than Earth's surface gravity if I were to guess. After a certain distance, each moment you get closer to it the gravity will get exponentially stronger. You are however correct that it's only high-uni directly at the singularity.

That other matter is dubious for multiple reasons. We don't know the actual distance, plus you need to factor in that Reinhard was still massively, insanely weakened at this point, on top of the fact that he was still strong enough to resist it to the extent that he could grab the Dragon Sword and thrust it into the singularity.

Either way, it is an upgrade for Reinhard and shouldn't be glossed over because of the lack of visual details.
As for Volcanica, since it seems like dragon attacks have multiple forms of hax including spacial manipulation and conceptual death hax akin to the mystic eyes of death perception I can't agree with assuming this to be a result of raw power.
That's in regards to its breath and special abilities, not its innate bodily weaponry such as its claws.
 
That's where it becomes a matter of conjecture regarding how close he actually was.

Even at just a few feet away though, the gravity at that distance to a singularity would be unimaginable, likely more than quadrillions of times stronger than Earth's surface gravity if I were to guess. After a certain distance, each moment you get closer to it the gravity will get exponentially stronger. You are however correct that it's only high-uni directly at the singularity.

That other matter is dubious for multiple reasons. We don't know the actual distance, plus you need to factor in that Reinhard was still massively, insanely weakened at this point, on top of the fact that he was still strong enough to resist it to the extent that he could grab the Dragon Sword and thrust it into the singularity.

Either way, it is an upgrade for Reinhard and shouldn't be glossed over because of the lack of visual details.
Sure, if you want to calc the durability to resist the pull from the distance from the tip of the dragon sword, along Reinhard's arm when fully extended, and to Reinhard's chest that would be fine. It just won't be high universal. And since we don't know Reinhard's exact position we can only assume the maximum possible distance he can reach with the sword.
That's in regards to its breath and special abilities, not its innate bodily weaponry such as its claws.
No, it includes his claws. His claws are the main part of his arsenal we see tearing and twisting space and deadspots can be hit even by normal human beings' bare hands so long as they see them.
 
Sure, if you want to calc the durability to resist the pull from the distance from the tip of the dragon sword, along Reinhard's arm when fully extended, and to Reinhard's chest that would be fine. It just won't be high universal. Since we don't know Reinhard's exact position we can only assume the maximum possible distance he can reach with the sword.
No, that's still conjecture. We don't know any of the details, he could've been touching it directly by the point he retrieved the Dragon Sword to "stab" it. What you're saying would be the conservative estimate though.

I don't think it's possible to actually like...calculate that? It would still be an absurd number and might still be mathematically approaching or at theoretical infinity, I would need to look into the details of that.
No, it includes his claws. His claws are the main part of his arsenal we see tearing and twisting space and deadspots can be hit even by normal human beings' bare hands so long as they see them.
The claws also have innate effects but iirc that's not really portrayed so much as hax as just Volcanica being goated. In the same vein as Reinhard being able to cut space with a normal sword swing because he's Reinhard and Cecilus being stated to be capable of doing the same because he's in the same tier in martial ability. This is why scaling Re:Zero accurately can sometimes get messy because Tappei loves to portray abilities that would normally be considered hax as a result of a lesser, more mundane thing. Reid's ability to cut anything is a result of his unfathomable sword skill for example. It's still a "hax" ability but in the context of the story, it isn't.
 
Speaking of, how do you calculate gravitational pressure/tidal force resistances to durability terms anyways? And I think the mass of the black hole would still be important, which we don't really know about but based on the context of the scene, probably in the realm of planet-large planet level.
 
Is there anyone I could ping to calc this sort of weird feat using conservative estimates for simplicity? I imagine it would place around star-large star territory though. Even neutron star matter would hardly last a fraction of a second at that range.
 
As far as I can tell from what I'm seeing, a feat like this can only be used for lifting strength, but it would be better to get an opinion from someone who knows more about black hole feats.
Well I have a good concept of the feat itself, I just don't know how I could estimate the actual strength of the forces applied onto something at that distance.

If we took the uttermost conservative estimates and just said Earth-mass black hole, 5 feet radius, that would still be a distance where I'm 99% sure the structural durability of any known matter in existence couldn't beat it. Could ask AI but obviously not a reliable source.

It's a matter of measuring applied force. Which can necessitate both a durability and LS rating I'm pretty sure.
 
To me, the arguments seem to be that:
1. Dragon Sword is indestructible and survived Regulus's attacks which should have infinite force behind them.
2. It survived a black hole.
3. The Divine Dragon damaged the sword

I mostly disagree.

1. Regulus's attacks have no proof of having infinite force behind them, at least, the OP did not provide any proof. Checking his profile, I can't find anything close to this either. If the entire argument is just "being unbound by physical laws", that is hax, not speed. There are so, so many characters unbound by physical laws yet we don't give them High 3-A AP (infinite force) automatically.

2. This would just scale to the black hole's accepted calculation (if any). Creating black holes is not uncommon in fiction, yet in no case are they automatically considered High 3-A. We do not consider "compressing finite energy into an infinitely small point" as scalable under vsbw standards. Otherwise characters creating micro black holes would get High 3-A AP as all black holes (that are accepted within our standards), no matter how small their Event Horizen is, have a singularity.

Also, they do not actually have "infinitely small points". That "single point", in all fairness, isn't even a point. It's a hole. At the exact centre of the black hole, space time is bent and stretched to such a degree that the fabric of time and space breaks. Gravity is infinite, and gravity = bending of space-time.
Here's an explanation from a well known science-focused youtube channel:



Why this is considered "infinite" is because that's the limitation of our current theories.

Some theories even suggest that the curvature and density of a black hole singularity is just very large, but not infinite.

Alternative forms of general relativity, including addition of some quantum effects, can lead to regular, or nonsingular, black holes without singularities.[166][167] For example, the fuzzball model, based on string theory, states that black holes are actually made up of quantum microstates and need not have a singularity or an event horizon.[168][169] The theory of loop quantum gravity proposes that the curvature and density at the center of a black hole is large, but not infinite.[170]

Now, as Point 1 and 2 were incorrect, point 3's conclusion loses its meaning.
 
To me, the arguments seem to be that:
1. Dragon Sword is indestructible and survived Regulus's attacks which should have infinite force behind them.
2. It survived a black hole.
3. The Divine Dragon damaged the sword
Argument 1 is only about the Dragon Sword's durability and scaling from that.

Argument 2 is about Reinhard himself surviving the singularity.
I mostly disagree.

1. Regulus's attacks have no proof of having infinite force behind them, at least, the OP did not provide any proof. Checking his profile, I can't find anything close to this either. If the entire argument is just "being unbound by physical laws", that is hax, not speed. There are so, so many characters unbound by physical laws yet we don't give them High 3-A AP (infinite force) automatically.
Regulus' attacks are physically unstoppable as they are removed from time and thus are unaffected by changes around them in the spatial dimension, I don't know how that doesn't translate to infinite force.
2. This would just scale to the black hole's accepted calculation (if any). Creating black holes is not uncommon in fiction, yet in no case are they automatically considered High 3-A. We do not consider "compressing finite energy into an infinitely small point" as scalable under vsbw standards. Otherwise characters creating micro black holes would get High 3-A AP as all black holes (that are accepted within our standards), no matter how small their Event Horizen is, have a singularity.
That's not what this is though.

The black hole itself is likely within planetary-scale mass, that doesn't change that the singularity itself holds mathematically infinite gravity. No one is saying that Al is High 3-A. This isn't even related to the argument.
Also, they do not actually have "infinitely small points". That "single point", in all fairness, isn't even a point. It's a hole. At the exact centre of the black hole, space time is bent and stretched to such a degree that the fabric of time and space breaks. Gravity is infinite, and gravity = bending of space-time.
Here's an explanation from a well known science-focused youtube channel:
Yes, I watch Kurzgesagt all the time, this video doesn't contradict my argument though, I am aware of these things. A singularity is not an actual thing or object, but that doesn't change the nature of what it is and how that relates to this discussion.


Why this is considered "infinite" is because that's the limitation of our current theories.

I know, the infinite gravity thing is more a result of our lack of information, but it is still mathematically accurate and viable for argumentation.
Some theories even suggest that the curvature and density of a black hole singularity is just very large, but not infinite.
This is true, but not the generally accepted consensus. The Kurzgesagt video you linked even uses the infinite gravity concept as a reference.

Now, as Point 1 and 2 were incorrect, point 3's conclusion loses its meaning.
...How. Point 3 is about a literally completely unrelated feat.
 
This is basically my opinion, in no way is this High 3-A, instead we should try and get a calc for the black hole.
It entirely depends on details which we just don't know. So unless we asked Tappei or Otsuka makes an illustration we have to use conservative estimates.

Which is where things get tricky for so, so many reasons, the factors are this;

Mass of the singularity-Unknown, presumably visibly large from the proportions of Reinhard's body, so potentially large planetary mass, conservative estimate would be regular planetary mass (we could just say Earth mass if we want to lowball it).

Exact distance-Unknown, conservative estimate would be the exact length of the Dragon Sword which is probably around 3-4 feet or so?

Reinhard's own mass-Estimated to be 70kg or 154lb.

Plus we could try to factor in that he was physically at the weakest he had ever been.

I did ask ChatGPT and Grok about this exact scenario yesterday and as expected their answers were almost completely different 😭
 
It entirely depends on details which we just don't know. So unless we asked Tappei or Otsuka makes an illustration we have to use conservative estimates.

Which is where things get tricky for so, so many reasons, the factors are this;

Mass of the singularity-Unknown, presumably visibly large from the proportions of Reinhard's body, so potentially large planetary mass, conservative estimate would be regular planetary mass (we could just say Earth mass if we want to lowball it).

Exact distance-Unknown, conservative estimate would be the exact length of the Dragon Sword which is probably around 3-4 feet or so?

Reinhard's own mass-Estimated to be 70kg or 154lb.

Plus we could try to factor in that he was physically at the weakest he had ever been.

I did ask ChatGPT and Grok about this exact scenario yesterday and as expected their answers were almost completely different 😭
Is this for Reinhard's lifting strength? One of the most important factors is distance, and Reinhard isn't just lifting his own weight, but also the weight of the sword that will strike the singularity.

F=G×M×m/r ²
r→0
 
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Is this for Reinhard's lifting strength? One of the most important factors is distance, and Reinhard isn't just lifting his own weight, but also the weight of the sword that will strike the singularity.

F=G×M×m/r ²
r→0
LS and durability.

The strength to resist its pull somewhat and still maintain a hold on the Dragon Sword, and also the tensile strength of his body to not be ripped apart instantly and spaghettified, which again I'm pretty sure no material in the universe could do at this distance but maybe I'm wrong.

R>0 for the sword you mean? Yeah things get dubious there because I'm not sure if Reinhard was still in control of the sword at that point. One can interpret it as him grabbing the sword strongly enough to at least overpower the singularity at that distance, and then he thrust the sword into the singularity, at that point he could have lost control of the sword until the singularity was destroyed from it, but if not...that would be infinite LS.
 
That's fine in regards to the admittedly very dubious Dragon Sword scaling. But what about Reinhard himself withstanding the gravity and tidal forces of a nearby singularity?
Reinhard was hurt by the singularity, but not because his hand was fully in it. He was holding the Dragon Sword Reid while it's tip interacted with the gravity field and instantly destroyed it.
The moment “Aldebaran” saw the same thing as Aldebaran, it performed the incantation, and a magical black sphere that generated extreme gravity was born behind Reinhard.
It was a rehash of a spell that had not worked some eight-thousand loops prior or thereabouts―― no, in this extreme situation, “Aldebaran” had also broken past its limits and evolved the spell to the next level.
What came to emerge there was not merely a powerful force field that exerted an extremely heavy gravitational force.
What did appear was a destructive singularity of mass, similar to a black hole, which warped space by concentrating an amount of Mana large enough to bring down a star into a single point.
Upon making contact with Reinhard as he was being blown away, the life of the Sword Saint was pulverized――
Aldebaran: “――The Divine Protection of Shedding Blood.”
In the next instant, the tip of the Dragon Sword thrust into the singularity, and the black sphere was forcibly destroyed. The Dragon Sword was said to be indestructible. Its strength had been proven beyond doubt, but Reinhard’s left arm, which had held the Dragon Sword as it disturbed the singularity, was destroyed.
The Sword's tip destroys it upon interaction by thrusting which is the same arm Reinhard was holding the sword.

So i don't think he scales at all. At most he'd scale to being near it, based on the distance so his distance to the black hole would be as much as the length of the sword for calculation purposes imo. This would maybe reach Class P? Same as that Kenjaku calc but Reinhard doesn't even appear to be pulling himself back or anything.

He also has divine protections that gives him heavy resistance to any type of magic as well and the ability doesn't even appear to be affecting anything beyond what it interacts. So i think it's just meaningless.
 
So i don't think he scales at all. At most he'd scale to being near it, based on the distance so his distance to the black hole would be as much as the length of the sword for calculation purposes imo. This would maybe reach Class P? Same as that Kenjaku calc but Reinhard doesn't even appear to be pulling himself back or anything.

He also has divine protections that gives him heavy resistance to any type of magic as well and the ability doesn't even appear to be affecting anything beyond what it interacts. So i think it's just meaningless.
I agree. The feat is theoretically usable for lifting strength, but from what I've seen it would not be a particularly impressive value. Especially since it would be cut down to 20% of the value by his resistance to magic.
 
Reinhard was hurt by the singularity, but not because his hand was fully in it. He was holding the Dragon Sword Reid while it's tip interacted with the gravity field and instantly destroyed it.
He was damaged first, and used the Divine Protection of Shedding Blood, which makes him stronger the more his blood is spilled. He then used that buff to grab the sheathed sword and stab it into the singularity, but his arm may have been damaged even more from doing so. Either way it doesn't necessarily change the context of the feat.
The Sword's tip destroys it upon interaction by thrusting which is the same arm Reinhard was holding the sword.
I don't think the destruction is instant.
So i don't think he scales at all. At most he'd scale to being near it, based on the distance so his distance to the black hole would be as much as the length of the sword for calculation purposes imo.
That is the most fair conservative basis.
This would maybe reach Class P? Same as that Kenjaku calc but Reinhard doesn't even appear to be pulling himself back or anything.
Reinhard is likely a bit closer than Kenjaku was, and every inch makes a huge difference in regards to withstanding a singularity. The mass is also hard to determine in this case. Though that feat is really hard to analyze to be honest.
He also has divine protections that gives him heavy resistance to any type of magic as well and the ability doesn't even appear to be affecting anything beyond what it interacts. So i think it's just meaningless.
That's not really relevant. The black hole was created via Yin magic, but at that point it's still just a black hole. For example he could probably tank a Minya attack, but a pure magic attack is different from tanking a phenomena created from magic. You could try to argue it's related to gravity resistance but this is theoretical and unspecified. By that logic Reinhard should be walking like he's on the moon all the time because he would be 80% resistant to the natural effects of gravity. And the other part of that argument is dubious because we have literally no timeframe.
 
But what about Reinhard himself withstanding the gravity and tidal forces of a nearby singularity?
I mean if you calculate how much force he was experiencing at that distance (length of Ryūken Reid + his arm) it could be valid for dura and maybe LS after accounting for Reinhard being nerfed and his Divine Protection of Darkness Nullification also cutting the damage he takes by ⅘.

There's also a means of calculating Alter creating the black hole in the first place, probably tier 5, though it's easily argued as an outlier.
 
I mean if you calculate how much force he was experiencing at that distance (length of Ryūken Reid + his arm) it could be valid for dura and maybe LS after accounting for Reinhard being nerfed and his Divine Protection of Darkness Nullification also cutting the damage he takes by ⅘.
That's the topic we're already on since people don't agree that he was touching the singularity.

And that's theoretical. He resists Yin magic by 80%, but he isn't being effected by Yin magic, he is being effected by something created from Yin magic. That isn't necessarily the same I'm pretty sure. It's even listed as black hole resistance on his page which I'm just confused about.

There is a world of difference between a character using Yin magic to apply enhanced gravity on Reinhard, and a character using Yin magic to create a black hole.
 
"In the next instant, the tip of the Dragon Sword thrust into the singularity, and the black sphere was forcibly destroyed"
Yes, in the next instant, he thrust the Dragon Sword into it, the latter is not connected to the term "instant" but to "into the singularity".

It was probably very quick, just saying probably not instant. Based on the following; "Its strength was proven beyond doubt, but Reinhard's left arm, which held the Dragon Sword as it disturbed the singularity, was destroyed".

This implies that the Dragon Sword's indestructibility causes the singularity to somehow become destabilized which resulted in its destruction very quickly, but not an instant "poof".
 
There is a world of difference between a character using Yin magic to apply enhanced gravity on Reinhard, and a character using Yin magic to create a black hole.
The black hole itself is stated to be magical, it's both a singularity of mass and a "magical black sphere". Al Karum is Yin Magic so it'd be strange if it ignored Darkness Nullification. Earth and Fire are two attributes that also basically just create things to hit your opponent with, but naturally their power would be cut by ⅘ by Mud Slippage and Fire Avoidance respectively.
 
The black hole itself is stated to be magical, it's both a singularity of mass and a "magical black sphere". Al Karum is Yin Magic so it'd be strange if it ignored Darkness Nullification. Earth and Fire are two attributes that also basically just create things to hit your opponent with, but naturally their power would be cut by ⅘ by Mud Slippage and Fire Avoidance respectively.
The narrator calls it that, and then explicitly says that was only formerly the case, and that Al Karum had evolved. Formerly it was just a massively enhanced gravity zone created by magic, but had turned into a spell where the Mana was concentrated enough to form a singularity.

"What emerged there was not just a powerful force field that exerted an extremely heavy gravitational force. What appeared was a destructive singularity of mass, similar to a black hole, which warped space by concentrating an amount of Mana large enough to bring down a star into a single point."

It was formerly just a magic hax ability, but evolved into a spell that simply created a different phenomena entirely.

And for your other argument; Question, so Reinhard would resist an Al Goa by 80% of course, but would he also be resistant to a large wooden fire created by said Al Goa? Because that is no longer Mana fueled, it was created from the usage of Mana, but is only a result of said Mana, a side-effect of it. Setting aside his inherent resistance to heat.
 
1. Regulus's attacks have no proof of having infinite force behind them, at least, the OP did not provide any proof. Checking his profile, I can't find anything close to this either. If the entire argument is just "being unbound by physical laws", that is hax, not speed. There are so, so many characters unbound by physical laws yet we don't give them High 3-A AP (infinite force) automatically.
To be clear, I don't think the interaction with Regulus is good evidence for the sword's durability. I just feel like this needs to be explained for context. Regulus' power isn't just to be unbound by physical laws. It is that he cannot be affected by anything. Because he cannot be affected by anything, any attack should pass through its target without any resistance whatsoever. The physical strength of whatever he hits does not matter because it literally cannot affect him. Nothing can stop or slow his movements.
2. This would just scale to the black hole's accepted calculation (if any). Creating black holes is not uncommon in fiction, yet in no case are they automatically considered High 3-A. We do not consider "compressing finite energy into an infinitely small point" as scalable under vsbw standards. Otherwise characters creating micro black holes would get High 3-A AP as all black holes (that are accepted within our standards), no matter how small their Event Horizen is, have a singularity.

Also, they do not actually have "infinitely small points". That "single point", in all fairness, isn't even a point. It's a hole. At the exact centre of the black hole, space time is bent and stretched to such a degree that the fabric of time and space breaks. Gravity is infinite, and gravity = bending of space-time.

Why this is considered "infinite" is because that's the limitation of our current theories.

Some theories even suggest that the curvature and density of a black hole singularity is just very large, but not infinite.
This is the part that confuses me. Nobody has argued for high 3-A based on the creation of the singularity. The Dragon Sword, which is described as "indestructible," and scales far beyond everything else in the verse passed through a singularity without sustaining any damage whatsoever. If you're trying to argue this isn't usable as a durability feat because a singularity having infinite gravitational force is only a theory, I would like to see a precedent for that. The black hole feats instruction page just says it can seldom be used as a durability feat because it is usually an outlier, not that it can never be used.
 
He was damaged first, and used the Divine Protection of Shedding Blood, which makes him stronger the more his blood is spilled. He then used that buff to grab the sheathed sword and stab it into the singularity, but his arm may have been damaged even more from doing so. Either way it doesn't necessarily change the context of the feat.
No. There is no mention of such thing there. You're adding your own explanation of it which isn't stated by anything. (I assume you mean "his left arm first went in, suffered, divine protection started working, then he got his hand out of it and attack")

This isn't what happens.
but Reinhard’s left arm, which had held the Dragon Sword as it disturbed the singularity, was destroyed.
Reinhard never falls into the black hole. He thrusts with the Dragon Sword Reid and it gets destroyed. But the arm that was holding the sword suffered when it destroyed the gravity field. This is where his left arm suffers.

You might be confusing it because of this part:
Upon making contact with Reinhard as he was being blown away, the life of the Sword Saint was pulverized――
Aldebaran: “――The Divine Protection of Shedding Blood.”
But the divine protection starts because of his RIGHT arm getting injured a sec ago. Not because "his left arm first went in, suffered, then he got it out and attack"

This is just Aldebaran's plan not going as he expected as he sees The Divine Protection of Shedding Blood start working cuz he injured his arm literally a second ago with Magic Railgun.

Ignore it if you meant "He got stronger and attacked before interacting with the singularity". But then i don't understand the purpose of your comment or how it rejects what i said.
I don't think the destruction is instant.
In the next instant, the tip of the Dragon Sword thrust into the singularity, and the black sphere was forcibly destroyed.
Happens when the "tip" of the sword thrusts into it. This just shows it to be instant. There is no mentioning of it being still for a while or anything, and there is no reason to assume so.
 
No. There is no mention of such thing there. You're adding your own explanation of it which isn't stated by anything. (I assume you mean "his left arm first went in, suffered, divine protection started working, then he got his hand out of it and attack")

This isn't what happens.

Reinhard never falls into the black hole. He thrusts with the Dragon Sword Reid and it gets destroyed. But the arm that was holding the sword suffered when it destroyed the gravity field. This is where his left arm suffers.

You might be confusing it because of this part:

But the divine protection starts because of his RIGHT arm getting injured a sec ago. Not because "his left arm first went in, suffered, then he got it out and attack"

This is just Aldebaran's plan not going as he expected as he sees The Divine Protection of Shedding Blood start working cuz he injured his arm literally a second ago with Magic Railgun.


Happens when the "tip" of the sword thrusts into it. This just shows it to be instant. There is no mentioning of it being still for a while or anything, and there is no reason to assume so.
Ah, you're right about that, I did misread it.

The feat still mostly applies since his arm partially resisted the gravitational force, but good catch, I misunderstood it for the most part.
 
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