Re Zero Discussion Thread: Season 3 is Real

[Nico-v11]

So yeah, not actually that skilled, just a large "skill chain" that's probably just people being stronger and faster than others. (Though people like to say such is "skill" for some reason)

Also tangible skill feats >>>>>> skill chain scaling.

R:Z characters easily have better feats.

I didn’t say Re:zero didn’t have better feats.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Phoenks You arent wrong, but it doesn't make it any easier in this case, Theresia has a Mach 13 calc for example, and she is suppose to be far above the supposed Relativistic characters.

Roy had to predict Julius light speed attack coming using previous knowledge, cause it is impossible for anyone, but people with Reinhard level reflexes to dodge.

It's a clusterfuck.

It's likely when we get future seasons that we might have calcs above the generic supersonic, but even then there is no way its getting close to Relativistic.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

@Phoenks You arent wrong, but it doesn't make it any easier in this case, Theresia has a Mach 13 calc for example, and she is suppose to be far above the supposed Relativistic characters.

Roy had to predict Julius light speed attack coming using previous knowledge, cause it is impossible for anyone, but people with Reinhard level reflexes to dodge.

It's a clusterfuck.

It's likely when we get future seasons that we might have calcs above the generic supersonic, but even then there is no way its getting close to Relativistic.

I hope thta we get relavistic speeds for every character in the anime

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

There’s a long skill chain and it from each Huntsmen being able to solo dozens of Grimm or enemies at once. That’s from the trailers before the series started. Then there’s Neo that curb stomps Yang in Vol 2 so that creates a big skill gap between her and everyone at Yang’s Vol 2 level. Actual professional Huntsmen like Raven sent Neo running afraid so that creates a gap there (or at least matches her).

So now you’ve got this “skill stomp” chain going on here to where when the characters early on match the later characters then they’re super skilled.

Oh and you’ve got Pyrrha who was a world champion before enrolling in Beacon and was named the “Invincible Girl”. So it’s mostly lots of chains from statements and youngster doing decent feats with characters above them skill stomping them.

I don’t think any of those things have anything to do with skill. Grimm are almost all fodder anyways, and all of the stomps you mention can easily be explained away with AP/Speed.

 

[Nico-v11]

I don’t think any of those things have anything to do with skill. Grimm are almost all fodder anyways, and all of the stomps you mention can easily be explained away with AP/Speed.

Personally I think they should all be tiered the same in terms of AP and speed. Also it’s obvious that Neo is physically weaker than Yang, in context Yang is supposed to be a powerhouse after all. There’s also zero statements about there being a speed gap after all, just that Neo is talented enough to not be hit once.

 

[Phoenks]

Hey don't a few people need the resistance to witch auras?

Like Reid Astrea?

 

[SubaruN2000]

Yoooooo Halibels in the main story now! Crazy.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Now I wait for Zarestia to show up. She probably won't

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Hey don't a few people need the resistance to witch auras?

Like Reid Astrea?

Still in the process of editing

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Yoooooo Halibels in the main story now! Crazy.

well that may actually allude to Cecilus defecting to Sphinx's side and them having to fight him in the end, or yk. Cecilus dies and becomes a zombie

 

[SubaruN2000]

I dont think Cecilus died or got turned into a zombie per say, but him becoming an enemy or a "wild card" of some sort is definetly possible.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Quick question, Shouldn't Regulus have resistance to EE due to not being affected by the whales fog

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

It's not resistance, it just can't interact with him.

Where is that even said though? He has rambled before about everything being useless against him, Sword Saint, and Dragon.

He is pretty much meant to be invulnerable unless you can get to his weakness, Tappei has also said as much.

But anyway, he doesn't resist stuff, it just can't interact with him.

 

[Nico-v11]

It's not resistance, it just can't interact with him.

Where is that even said though? He has rambled before about everything being useless against him, Sword Saint, and Dragon.

He is pretty much meant to be invulnerable unless you can get to his weakness, Tappei has also said as much.

But anyway, he doesn't resist stuff, it just can't interact with him.

Would not being affected mean resistance? Either way it should be specified that things like Existence Erasure don’t affect him, that’s pretty high up there.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Let me put it like this; suppose i had a true form which exists in another dimension, what you see of me is merely a projection of that form, as such you can't even damage me, as that requires affecting my true self.

Similar sort of thing here, Regulus is cut off from time, thus he doesn't experience change (cause and effect), thus he can't be interacted with.

It should be mentioned somewhere indeed that his ability extends to his very existence. We already established before it goes beyond his physical body, to his soul, we can further say it extends to his existence itself.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Should be done applying vol 10-15 revisions tomorrow, after which will finish off the sandbox for vol 20-21, and probably post it.

Will include the Reinhard speed and lifting calcs for stuff from earlier volumes, and also adding Patrasche's ap to Subaru. Patrasche should also be a tab under his abilities too.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Let me put it like this; suppose i had a true form which exists in another dimension, what you see of me is merely a projection of that form, as such you can't even damage me, as that requires affecting my true self.

Similar sort of thing here, Regulus is cut off from time, thus he doesn't experience change (cause and effect), thus he can't be interacted with.

It should be mentioned somewhere indeed that his ability extends to his very existence. We already established before it goes beyond his physical body, to his soul, we can further say it extends to his existence itself.

That would still mean EE resistance then

 

[Nico-v11]

Let me put it like this; suppose i had a true form which exists in another dimension, what you see of me is merely a projection of that form, as such you can't even damage me, as that requires affecting my true self.

Similar sort of thing here, Regulus is cut off from time, thus he doesn't experience change (cause and effect), thus he can't be interacted with.

It should be mentioned somewhere indeed that his ability extends to his very existence. We already established before it goes beyond his physical body, to his soul, we can further say it extends to his existence itself.

That would mean we using “unconventional resistance to Existence Erasure”. We’ve used “unconventional” to describe resistances that don’t fall under the regular spectrum.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I honestly don't care either way, have already said my piece, but going with that line of logic, Regulus is meant to be impossible to harm, unless you get pass his gimmick or your name is Reid and you can literally kill concepts.

If you want to push for resistance, compile a list of every single ability in Re Zero, and make a thread giving him resistance to all that. Just have to get staff to agree with you.

 

[Noneless21]

That would still mean EE resistance then

That would mean we using “unconventional resistance to Existence Erasure”. We’ve used “unconventional” to describe resistances that don’t fall under the regular spectrum.

that wouldn't make sense, he never get touched by it, so why he needs to have any resistance at all?

P.S.: I don't read Re:zero, I just pointing it out

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The way i think of it is like type 5 acausality, existing beyond causal systems and thus nothing can affect you, unless you can prove the ability can affect such things, it doesn't mean you have resistance to everything, it just means it can't interact with you. Same sort of thing with like transduality, where say you are beyond dual systems of like existence and non-existence, so obviously you can't erase someone like that without feats.

That's just an analogy, cause Regulus ability woks in a similar way, that's my opinion but people are welcome to make a CRT if they think otherwise.

Anyway edits are done, will get back to Sword Ballard, and post vol 20-21 CRT later today.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

The way i think of it is like type 5 acausality, existing beyond causal systems and thus nothing can affect you, unless you can prove the ability can affect such things, it doesn't mean you have resistance to everything, it just means it can't interact with you. Same sort of thing with like transduality, where say you are beyond dual systems of like existence and non-existence, so obviously you can't erase someone like that without feats.

That's just an analogy, cause Regulus ability woks in a similar way, that's my opinion but people are welcome to make a CRT if they think otherwise.

Anyway edits are done, will get back to Sword Ballard, and post vol 20-21 CRT later today.

btw does this mean that stuff like Gojo's hollow purple which probably require physical contact wont interact with him due to lack of feats

 

[Nico-v11]

The way i think of it is like type 5 acausality, existing beyond causal systems and thus nothing can affect you, unless you can prove the ability can affect such things, it doesn't mean you have resistance to everything, it just means it can't interact with you. Same sort of thing with like transduality, where say you are beyond dual systems of like existence and non-existence, so obviously you can't erase someone like that without feats.

That's just an analogy, cause Regulus ability woks in a similar way, that's my opinion but people are welcome to make a CRT if they think otherwise.

Anyway edits are done, will get back to Sword Ballard, and post vol 20-21 CRT later today.

Ok makes sense, I was about to suggest invlunerability but noticed he already had it. I just think that anyone not familiar with Re:zero looking at the profile would not understand the scale in which it works. So I thought some clarification that included things like EE or others would help.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Was busy, but got it done.

Vol 20-21 CRT

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Wrath IF vibes

And as he declared this―― before anyone could even blink, he’d produced a twisted dagger in his hand which he promptly used to stab one of the prisoners in their chest.

Theresia:「Wha」

Theresia’s reactions to this terrible act were delayed for a moment.

Had it been an attack, there wouldn’t have been any reason why Theresia couldn’t have stopped it. However, Theresia hadn’t been able to read his behaviour. And that was because his current act now hadn’t been an “Attack”.

――As far as Stride was concerned, the act of stabbing others wasn’t something he considered as launching an attack.

Thus even through the eyes of the『Sword Saint』his blade hadn’t been seen as an attack.

Again sort of thing Reinhard can do with multiple blessings, Theresia is doing with just 1, but i remember the tower or whatever in the IF messing with his blessings, so that Wrath IF scene with Emilia stabbing Reinhard and it working due to her not considering it an attack or whatever, is the same exact thing happening here.

Btw this man Stide is a menace, other witch cultist are scum, evil and what not, but its personal with Stride, and he is so effective, guess that's what happens when no Subaru is around to save the day.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

What even is transcending the concept of steel, wtf

Wilhelm:「――」

Faced with『Death』that had been unleashed at him from three sides at once, the『Sword Demon’s』answer was decidedly simple.

If death unavoidable was coming for him, then he only had one yearning as a swordsman――

To use his silvery steel to thrust death faster at him.

His sword sublimated to a might that went from super-speed to hyper-speed, to hyper-speed to the speed of god, until finally transcending the very concept of steel.

Upwards, leftwards, rightwards―― He had no way of knowing what sort of feeling must have gone through the『Eight Arms’』heart the moment that he’d parried all three of his critical attacks head on.

Wilhelm:「――」

Wilhelm himself couldn’t comprehend in the very moment how stunning of a feat that it was he’d accomplished. Perhaps his sword technique had rivalled the time when he’d defeated the『Sword Saint』Theresia at the ceremony to mark the end of the Civil War; in other words, the Absolute Sword that had reached the very pinnacle――,

Kurgan:「――There was once a man who thoroughly mastered the sword」

Wilhelm:「――」

Kurgan:「That man’s sword was beautiful, wild, serene, fierce and immensely strong」

It was a dream that many swordsmen in the world longed for.

If the longing for the uttermost sword power was envy for the『Sword Saint』, then the longing for the uttermost sword technique was called――

Kurgan:「――You’ve placed your foot down on the steps of the『Heavenly Sword』?」

Wilhelm:「…Cut the bullshit out. The hell would I know about the『Heavenly Sword』」

Kurgan and Wilhelm fight, both completely even, bear in mind Wilhelm gets faster and faster in combat, Kurgan unleashes multiple attacks at the same time, impossible to avoid, Wilhelm gets ridiculously faster, parries all 3 and lands a fatal blow on Kurgan, to which he remarks Wilhelm has taken a foot down on the steps of the Heavenly Sword, that being Reid....

How we would list this, some sort of new key like Peak (Ex Novel 2, and 3), and Peak (Sword Demon Battle Ballard), and have his speed be like At least Hypersonic+? Idk, being compared to Reid might also count for something, maybe, that going from super speed all the up to speed of god, then transcending the concept of steel sounds wild.

 

[SubaruN2000]

Wilhelm tier 0 confirmed.

I highly doubt Wilhelm speed, even at peak, is actually comparable to Reids though.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I would describe it as like a technique, vs Theresia and Kurgan, when he defeated them he used this, he isn't always that fast, this is just something that happens in combat.

With this he takes a foot on to the steps of Reid, but that's not the same as being fully comparable.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I would describe it as like a technique, vs Theresia and Kurgan, when he defeated them he used this, he isn't always that fast, this is just something that happens in combat.

With this he takes a foot on to the steps of Reid, but that's not the same as being fully comparable.

Dont we usually take the peak of the characters? This should his highest form yet i think

Also its wild that he AD'D himself to almost blitzing kurgan When he was barely scrapping by in the beginning of the fight

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

It's not really sustainable, after he used it against Kurgan, he was trying to remember it again vs Valgren.

So it is the peak of Wilhelm's ability, but he can't really use it continuously, so thinking about it, his speed would be like Hypersonic+, much higher at peak, something like that.

Against Kurgan he was kinda distracted/handicapped with all the civilians attacking his squad and the shonobi, once that was out they way, they went toe to toe, until Wilhelm pulled his out.

Speaking of Shinobi's, they are said to have honed their skill to perfection, to the limits of humanity, even Wilhelm was noting their skill. Roswaal J was said to be the same, and Carol and Grimm went toe to toe with one of them too.

So we have Old Wilhelm being beyond the limits of humanity, while these guys being are at the very limit, think they scale to Garfiel and co.

Finished the Ballard, on to Ex Novel 4 now.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

It's not really sustainable, after he used it against Kurgan, he was trying to remember it again vs Valgren.

So it is the peak of Wilhelm's ability, but he can't really use it continuously, so thinking about it, his speed would be like Hypersonic+, much higher at peak, something like that.

Against Kurgan he was kinda distracted/handicapped with all the civilians attacking his squad and the shonobi, once that was out they way, they went toe to toe, until Wilhelm pulled his out.

Speaking of Shinobi's, they are said to have honed their skill to perfection, to the limits of humanity, even Wilhelm was noting their skill. Roswaal J was said to be the same, and Carol and Grimm went toe to toe with one of them too.

So we have Old Wilhelm being beyond the limits of humanity, while these guys being are at the very limit, think they scale to Garfiel and co.

Finished the Ballard, on to Ex Novel 4 now.

Oof Baleroy huh, he became a lot more relevant than i previously thought

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Btw when is the skill chain thread coming

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

What do you mean exactly? Been adding skill, but it's not gonna be complete till i do Ex Novels.

There are unknowns like where exactly Julius, Emilia, Priscilla etc stand, because so far have seen no comparison with the others, but in terms of what's known there is a scale.

My opinion: Reid>Reinhard>>>>>>>Peak Wilhelm at his best>>>>>>Peak Wilhelm normally=Kurgan>/=Theresia>>Old Wilhelm, Gluttony>Roswaal J, Grimm, Carol>Garfiel, Elsa.

You get this ability at this level, this stuff doesn't work at that level, that's all there is to it really. Like Grimm on co have perfect skill, which is on the limits of humanity, Old Wil is beyond humanity, Gluttony level can't be reach with a lifetime of training, Theresia goes even further where even an eternities training can't reach, Peak Wil at his best, is far beyond Theresia, but is only on the steps of Reid.

Reinhard can't be reached by Peak Wil, it's said that the they are in different worlds, and basically if the gap between Theresia and everyone else can't be reached in a lifetime or eternity, the gap between Reinhard and Peak Wil is also like that despite him reaching Theresia in 2 years as training, which is absurd.

Reid is at the top cause he is what all swordsman strive towards even Cecilius was talking about Heavenly Sword or whatever in arc 7 i think, not to mention he is at the level where he cuts literal concepts, and despite knowing Reinhard, Julius says Reid is the greatest swordsman recorded in history.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

What do you mean exactly? Been adding skill, but it's not gonna be complete till i do Ex Novels.

There are unknowns like where exactly Julius, Emilia, Priscilla etc stand, because so far have seen no comparison with the others, but in terms of what's known there is a scale.

My opinion: Reid>Reinhard>>>>>>>Peak Wilhelm at his best>>>>>>Peak Wilhelm normally=Kurgan>/=Theresia>>Old Wilhelm, Gluttony>Roswaal J, Grimm, Carol>Garfiel, Elsa.

You get this ability at this level, this stuff doesn't work at that level, that's all there is to it really. Like Grimm on co have perfect skill, which is on the limits of humanity, Old Wil is beyond humanity, Gluttony level can't be reach with a lifetime of training, Theresia goes even further where even an eternities training can't reach, Peak Wil at his best, is far beyond Theresia, but is only on the steps of Reid.

Reinhard can't be reached by Peak Wil, it's said that the they are in different worlds, and basically if the gap between Theresia and everyone else can't be reached in a lifetime or eternity, the gap between Reinhard and Peak Wil is also like that despite him reaching Theresia in 2 years as training, which is absurd.

Reid is at the top cause he is what all swordsman strive towards even Cecilius was talking about Heavenly Sword or whatever in arc 7 i think, not to mention he is at the level where he cuts literal concepts, and despite knowing Reinhard, Julius says Reid is the greatest swordsman recorded in history.

Right i disagree on that last one, no way is Reinhard below Reid in terms of skill. I would have accepted it if you considered them to be equals but Tappei straight up said that Reinhard will win extreme high diff against him without his DPs which means Reinhard is still superior

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Strength isn't equal to skill.

Reinhard is stronger, but if he was as skilled he would have been killing concepts against Regulus too, beheading him, and that didn't happen.

Let me put it this way, in the dunes in arc 6 with the space being warped to make it so you can't progress, Reid would have just cut through that, not that Reinhard can't cut through space too, he can, but Reid's entire stick is cutting things which can't be seen or cut, he cuts through connections between things for example, there is no way in my mind that Reid would have failed to get through the dunes, where as Reinhard failed.

I don't remember Tappei saying Reinhard wins without his DPs against Reid though, just that vs Reid, Reinhard is mostly stronger.

 

[SubaruN2000]

Yeah Reid> Reinhard purely in terms of skill should be the case. Reid doesn't even need DP SS unlike Reinhard or the other sword saints and is already considered to have reached the pinnacle of swordsmenship. Dude literally cuts concepts and intangible stuff too. Reinhard is of course stronger and much more haxed.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Strength isn't equal to skill.

Reinhard is stronger, but if he was as skilled he would have been killing concepts against Regulus too, beheading him, and that didn't happen.

Let me put it this way, in the dunes in arc 6 with the space being warped to make it so you can't progress, Reid would have just cut through that, not that Reinhard can't cut through space too, he can, but Reid's entire stick is cutting things which can't be seen or cut, he cuts through connections between things for example, there is no way in my mind that Reid would have failed to get through the dunes, where as Reinhard failed.

I don't remember Tappei saying Reinhard wins without his DPs against Reid though, just that vs Reid, Reinhard is mostly stronger.

I guess that makes sense
Reid is too op for our boy Reinhard

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Ex Novel 4 done.

Have to say i re-evaluated what i thought i knew of Cecilus power. First round vs Reinhard he didn't know he was facing the Sword Saint, and just before fighting him Vincent basically tells him to stop playing around, but he says that's how he is cause he would just kill people in the blink of an eye if he was serious.

After losing Vincent remarks he lost without showing his full strength, he later on fights Reinhard with Reid, who was actually enjoying the fight.

The city block scaling should be removed imo.

So far Ex Novel 2, 3 and the Battle Ballard have the most stuff to add, 1 and 4, not much. Will see what 5 brings. I plan on making a Balleroy profile too.

.

 

[Zabazab]

Hey, just wondering if there's a reason why Emilia with her Awakened Powers is rated with higher ap than Roswaal L. (besides Altemillion which isn't really applicable in battle right?), since WoG has stated that Roswaal's ap > Awakened Emilia's ap.

If there's something in the novel that makes this not the case though then that's fair.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Where is it stated Roswaal's ap>Awakened Emilia?

From my memory Tappei stated Emilia has one of the highest mana or something, also Roswaal feats don't match up with Emilia, it would be the same as saying Roswaal is on the level of Beast of the End Puck, which he was clearly afraid of.

Maybe with 6 fold magic he is, but we don't see it, so it's vague.