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Raimi Green Goblin Scaling Downgrade

Lonkitt said:
The Ock part isn’t taking into consideration what MCU Peter was juggling there.
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If you're referring to the car that's no less then Tobey was juggling in attempting to minimize collatoral and also completely ignoring that Tom was angered by Ock's threats during the fight
Lonkitt said:
Ock scales to the Iron Spider, but to imply Raimi Peter is on that same level when he gets continuously restrained by Octavius is a stretch
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It's hardly a stretch since Tobey is able to overpower Ock and actually do fairly well against him, just compare the performance.
I also recall supplementary material claiming Ock struggled significantly with Tobey but I'll have to dig that up
Lonkitt said:
I got no clue what you’re saying on the Goblin part (second paragraph). It doesn’t really counter what I’m saying though
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I'm saying Goblin doing as well as he does in the parade fight doesn't at all reflect his performance in later fights with Peter and what Goblin himself believes about Spidey's capabilities. In every other encounter he gets the drop on him, at one point claims Spidey seems invincible and targets the people closest to him to help weaken his resolve.
All of that effort doesn't fit with the parade fight just showing Goblin as a rival to Peter at all and it's outright contradicted later

I'll leave this here though since I want to discuss this at a later date when I've checked out more of the materials for myself
 
Hellbeast said:
Even if you want to argue Ock's superiority Peter is still doing significantly better then an angered Tom Holland in combat with him and that's ignoring statements like the Novelisation
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Doing better still doesn't mean he scales to the arms. None of the Spideys physically stood a chance against even one of Ock's arms on their lonesome, two arms would effectively end Spider-Man as a whole. Ever. The train fight is proof of that.

Speaking of which, Gobby should have higher LS with his glider, seeing as it easily overpowered and sliced one of Ock's arms clean off.
 
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Hellbeast said:
It's hardly a stretch since Tobey is able to overpower Ock and actually do fairly well against him, just compare the performance.
I also recall supplementary material claiming Ock struggled significantly with Tobey but I'll have to dig that up
Click to expand...
Eh, no.

Every time Tobey went against Ock, it was against his physical body. Otherwise, every time Tobey tried to go against the arms, he got his shit kicked in. SM2.1 is even more blatant with this, where he outright can't even hold a candle when he gets pushed onto an oncoming train by the arms. And Ock physically by himself is 8-C.
 
KLOL506 said:
Doing better still doesn't mean he scales to the arms. None of the Spideys stood a chance against even one of Ock's arms. Ever. The train fight is proof of that.
Click to expand...
KLOL506 said:
Every time Tobey went against Ock, it was against his physical body. Otherwise, every time Tobey tried to go against the arms, he got his shit kicked in. SM2.1 is even more blatant with this, where he outright can't even hold a candle when he gets pushed onto an oncoming train by the arms. And Ock physically by himself is 8-C.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying he should outright scale to the arms, simply that his performance is objectively far better then Tom's.
Also wait if Ock himself is only 8-C why are all his stats just outright at least? Shouldn't it just be a flat "8-C, higher with Tentacles"?
Either way this is a different discussion I wanted to have, not for this thread
 
KLOL506 said:
Eh, no.

Every time Tobey went against Ock, it was against his physical body. Otherwise, every time Tobey tried to go against the arms, he got his shit kicked in. SM2.1 is even more blatant with this, where he outright can't even hold a candle when he gets pushed onto an oncoming train by the arms. And Ock physically by himself is 8-C.
Click to expand...
Ock really needs to be revised to '8-C, higher with tentacles'
 
Hellbeast said:
I'm not saying he should outright scale to the arms, simply that his performance is objectively far better then Tom's.
Also wait if Ock himself is only 8-C why are all his stats just outright at least? Shouldn't it just be a flat "8-C, higher with Tentacles"?
Click to expand...
Probably because Ock physically doesn't have that much of a showing other than in SM2.1 (Remember that elbowing thing I told you about? That's prolly Ock's only moment of physically attacking Spidey with his own flesh arms). And his Arms are what get most of the credit.

But yeah, revising him to 8-C, higher with tentacles is probably fine I suppose. It's not like SM2.1 contradicts anything in the movies to begin with other than adding in deleted scenes, which I'm pretty sure we consider canon.
 
KLOL506 said:
Probably because Ock physically doesn't have that much of a showing other than in SM2.1 (Remember that elbowing thing I told you about? That's prolly Ock's only moment of physically attacking Spidey with his own flesh arms). And his Arms are what get most of the credit.
Click to expand...
But still if we've got no showings for physicals then put them at unknown but everything there should say he's 8-C, higher with arms
KLOL506 said:
But yeah, revising him to 8-C, higher with tentacles is probably fine I suppose. It's not like SM2.1 contradicts anything in the movies to begin with other than adding in deleted scenes, which I'm pretty sure we consider canon.
Click to expand...
Sounds good
 
Baken384 said:
Tom Spidey gets hit by train: injured and passes out inside the train 😭 😭 😭
Chad Tobey Spidey gets hit by train: immediately swings back with little injury to kick doc ock's ass 💪 💪 💪
plsguysitsjustajoke
Click to expand...
I mean that was right after Mysterio overwhelmed him with Drone attacks and traumatizing illusions. He was really only injured by the previous attacks. If Jake Gyllenhaal was ******* with my mind, I'd be scared too
 
Lonkitt said:
I mean that was right after Mysterio overwhelmed him with Drone attacks and traumatizing illusions. He was really only injured by the previous attacks. If Jake Gyllenhaal was ******* with my mind, I'd be scared too
Click to expand...
Raimi Spider-Man fanboys:
sign.jpg
 
Not yet. Lemme pull up some conclusions and tag Qawsedf to get approval, ElixirBlue agreed BTW.

*Green Goblin- (Shouldn't be overwhelmingly weaker than his son Harry, who took the serum in its entirety compared to Norman's procedure being stopped mid-way) and has the regen removed

*Harry- (Took the full brunt of the Performance-Enhancing Serum in its entirety, which would put him above his father, whose procedure was abruptly stopped mid-way)

*Doc Ock gets an 8-C physically (Elbowed Spider-Man), higher with arms

@Qawsedf234 What do you think?
 
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Lonkitt said:
2.1's bank fight has a short instance where Otto throws hands at Peter when he's restrained on the building. Could use that too
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, you're right. Ock lands multiple punches on Spidey, and at times even wrestles for control with Spider-Man without using his tentacles.
 
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Here are the scenes BTW: First one (Very last 10 seconds) and Second One (Elbowing)

Funny how both of them keep trading blows with each other and neither is able to effectively harm each other. Ock isn't even fazed with Spider-Man letting loose directly on his face and Ock can't do any long-lasting damage without using his arms (But the arms scale way above them anyway).
 
also idk if we covered this already but idk i don't think norman should have all the new stuff harry has just due to the latter having the full serum with its full capabilities
 
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