Raiden vs Virgin

[Braking]

Raiden (Metal Gear)

As a young boy, Jack lived in the turbulence and violence of the Liberian Civil War and was orphaned at a young age by Solidus Snake, who raised him as his own and groomed him to become a killing machine of a child soldier who gained the title of Jack the Ripper, the White Devil, making quite...

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Vs

Vergil (DMC Reboot)

Dante's twin brother. While Dante was admitted to an orphanage run by demons as a child, Vergil was adopted into a rich family. Highly-gifted, Vergil wrote a security encryption program that made him a multi-millionaire before he was even out of school. However, Vergil eventually recovered the...

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Custom Cyborg Body key for raiden used
Speed Equal
in character
Range: a 3 houses between
SBA otherwise

Raiden:
Vergil:
Naw:

Raiden's AP: 23.885 Megatons
Vergil's AP: 9.63982388237265 Megatons

 

[Braking]

stfu ik i spelt his name wrong

 

[Arceus0x]

I AM THE RED SUN THAT IS APPROACHING

 

[Unknownnah]

Virgin

 

[Braking]

Bump

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

Raiden for not being a Bit-

Fr tho is this in one shot range yet or...?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Both can ignore durability with quantum hax or space hax. So AP/Dura kinda irrelevant.

Skill is what matters here.

 

[Reploidnoridomix]

raiden blitzed vergil ?

 

[Comiphorous]

Raiden can go into blade mode or/and Ripper mode he can get (i believe) a 10x speed amp, dont know what vergin can do.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Raiden because Vergil reboot is gay

 

[Unknownnah]

Both one tap with gay sword hax

But Raiden has a 10x amp he spams in character so…

 

[ZillertheBucko]

speed equalize = blade mode blitz + dura neg for the 10 billionth time
this is every raiden match ever

 

[Axl233]

#Raidensweep

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Vergil has his own DT amp which allows him to one shot foes who were effortlessly beating him up previously.
DT provides a balanced boost accross all stats.
Plus it summons a doppelganger. That along with summoned sword spam and teleportation spam.
I'd say Vergil has enough going for him in speed and abilities department to match Blade/Ripper mode Raiden.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Vergil has his own DT amp which allows him to one shot foes who were effortlessly beating him up previously.
DT provides a balanced boost accross all stats.
Plus it summons a doppelganger. That along with summoned sword spam and teleportation spam.
I'd say Vergil has enough going for him in speed and abilities department to match Blade/Ripper mode Raiden.

proof that it can overcome 10 times speed boost?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

proof that it can overcome 10 times boost?

DT amp which allows him to one shot foes who were effortlessly beating him up previously.

Amps that allow to one shot comparable foes is considered 7.5x in versus matchups.
Vergil one shot a group which was clowning on him. I'd say it's respectable enough to hold it's own against a 10x amp.
Being a few percentage point slower than anyone isn't an unconquerable disadvantage.

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

Even if it's not a insurmountable disadvantage, it's still a disadvantage to be noted. He's still fighting 100 with a 75, basically. Or, more clearly, his amp is only 3/4th's that of his opponents.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Amps that allow to one shot comparable foes is considered 7.5x in versus matchups.
Vergil one shot a group which was clowning on him. I'd say it's respectable enough to hold it's own against a 10x amp.
Being a few percentage point slower than anyone isn't an unconquerable disadvantage.

what matters is the speed advantage, raiden dura negates him regardless of his AP

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

So can Vergil negate AP with space cutting.
And Muramasa/Murasama can be potentially blocked with demonic aura in DT or complete block it summoned swords, because they aren't made of matter quantum hax won't work.

Vergil and his doppelganger can teleport and sword spam the battlefield to keep Raiden on his toes. Vergil can also judgement cut Raiden for an instant death because it spawns on target's body. Hell even summoned swords can be spawned on the target with Storm Swords and Rain Swords technique. Most importantly summoned swords only require a thought to work, so Raiden has to deal with multiple threat vectors here.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Even if it's not a insurmountable disadvantage, it's still a disadvantage to be noted. He's still fighting 100 with a 75, basically. Or, more clearly, his amp is only 3/4th's that of his opponents.

Tbh the ratio is more favourable, because Vergil trashed people who were trashing him.
It's not for merely one shotting someone comparable to him.

All in all the speed advantage is something, but not be all and end all as some people are making out to be.
Distance and time matter a lot for speed. So we're with proper pacing and distancing... Vergil can further improve his odds to even it out.

 

[Axl233]

Raiden can overcome Vergil amps with his AD.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Then it needs to kick in immediately.

Vergil one shots with his haxxed attacks and doesn't banter around or play around like Armstrong. So there's hardly any time to develop speed, unless it's some Garou like shenanigans.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Amps that allow to one shot comparable foes is considered 7.5x in versus matchups.
Vergil one shot a group which was clowning on him. I'd say it's respectable enough to hold it's own against a 10x amp.
Being a few percentage point slower than anyone isn't an unconquerable disadvantage.

What's the point of that increase in AP if Raiden strikes faster than Vergil can even hit him?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

What's the point of that increase in AP if Raiden strikes faster than Vergil can even hit him?

DT provides a balanced boost accross all stats.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Then why is it not stated on the profile smh.

Also how much of a boost is it?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

It is mentioned tho. Besides it's a common mechanic accross all games OG or otherwise.

Refer here for all that boost stuff.

Amps that allow to one shot comparable foes is considered 7.5x in versus matchups.
Vergil one shot a group which was clowning on him. I'd say it's respectable enough to hold it's own against a 10x amp.
Being a few percentage point slower than anyone isn't an unconquerable disadvantage.

 

[Chariot190]

Doppler won't matter.
Funny AI AR analysis go brrr.

Also that isn't how boosts work, that's how it works in matches. But you can't take match logic, apply to game logic, then reapply it to match logic to make an unquantifiable boost into 7.5 based on AP boosting
(By that logic Raiden's RM is a 7x amp too because it lets him one shoot dudes he couldn't previously).

Then it needs to kick in immediately.

Vergil one shots with his haxxed attacks and doesn't banter around or play around like Armstrong. So there's hardly any time to develop speed, unless it's some Garou like shenanigans.

What's Armstrong have to do with anything? (Most of Raiden's foes try to kill him right away anyway, just look at Blade Wolf) Raiden is extremely kill savvy, unless he has reason to, 99% of the time he kills his foes before they even know he's there.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

It is mentioned tho. Besides it's a common mechanic accross all games OG or otherwise.

Refer here for all that boost stuff.

I mean on the AP and speed sections. Also I'm asking about how high is the speed amp.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Doppler won't matter.
Funny AI AR analysis go brrr.

What is AR? Augmented Reality?

Also that isn't how boosts work, that's how it works in matches. But you can't take match logic, apply to game logic, then reapply it to match logic to make an unquantifiable boost into 7.5 based on AP boosting
(By that logic Raiden's RM is a 7x amp too because it lets him one shoot dudes he couldn't previously).

But... I didn't do that.
Statistics Amps which don't have an official stated multiplier are allowed to assume 7.5x during versus match for clear cut one shots.

Now unless the rules have changed....

I mean on the AP and speed sections. Also I'm asking about how high is the speed amp.

All his stats get boosted by same amount. Not just AP. He gets just as much amped in speed as power.

 

[Chariot190]

Distance and time matter a lot for speed. So we're with proper pacing and distancing

Raiden can cover 3 houses in one leap with ease.

What is AR? Augmented Reality?

Yes, that's what it's called. Doesn't work like that though, it's basically just multi km analysis that points where everything is, weak points and a bunch of other shit.

But... I didn't do that.
Statistics Amps which don't have an official stated multiplier are allowed to assume 7.5x during versus match for clear cut one shots.

That's how it works for character vs character.

Dude A is 10mt, Dude B is 100mt. That's bigger than a 7.5x difference, so Dude B one shots.

But that DOESN'T apply to amps or boosts in verse, or even one shots in verse (for example Vegeta vs cui) even if they one shot things in context, it's unquantifiable. It's impossible to know without more info, hell some verses have amps as small as 50% one shot, others with huge amps failing to. We don't assume anything for in verse.

All his stats get boosted by same amount. Not just AP. He gets just as much amped in speed as power.

Scan that says they're all the same amount?
We've all seen that ssj speed amp thread, you know the rules
Just because an amp boosts one stat a certain amount, it doesn't inherently boost all stats that amount, even if it DOES amp multiple things. (Again, by that logic RM boosts AP by 10x, because it boosts both and speed is stated to be 10x).

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Raiden can cover 3 houses in one leap with ease.

Vergil's got pretty good acrobatics too. Also has teleportation and aerial boosting for that extra maneurability.

Yes, that's what it's called. Doesn't work like that though, it's basically just multi km analysis that points where everything is, weak points and a bunch of other shit.

I see... Occulus VR goggles basically.
What nature of weak points and bunch of other shit?

That's how it works for character vs character.

Dude A is 10mt, Dude B is 100mt. That's bigger than a 7.5x difference, so Dude B one shots.

But that DOESN'T apply to amps or boosts in verse, or even one shots in verse (for example Vegeta vs cui) even if they one shot things in context, it's unquantifiable. It's impossible to know without more info, hell some verses have amps as small as 50% one shot, others with huge amps failing to. We don't assume anything for in verse.

I am not applying in verse tho...

Amps have been assumed to be 7.5x for versus sake. And I swear there used to a rule explaining it too. I can't find it any longer tho.

We've all seen that ssj speed amp thread, you know the rules.

Heee yo.... That's low blow. That's DB is extreme case, you could run out of ink with how unfairly the verse gets treated sometimes.

Just because an amp boosts one stat a certain amount, it doesn't inherently boost all stats that amount, even if it DOES amp multiple things. (Again, by that logic RM boosts AP by 10x, because it boosts both and speed is stated to be 10x).

I mean I wouldn't oppose that. I don't like arbitrarily assuming something is greater or lesser than it's other counterparts in same context unless it was explicitly stated.

 

[Chariot190]

Vergil's got pretty good acrobatics too. Also has teleportation and aerial boosting for that extra maneurability.

Yeah? Raiden has good acrobatics too, actually kinda insane, even in his Patriot Body dude can break dance on a sword or do like fifty flips.
He also has boosting too.
Only thing he lacks is teleportation but that aint gonna do anything against him, don't forget Raiden has experience with Psycho Mantis, someone who spams teleportation far beyond Vergil.

I see... Occulus VR goggles basically.
What nature of weak points and bunch of other shit?

Shrug, it tells him where his foes are, the exact distance down to the cm, lets him see through walls, it's omnidirectional too so you can't sneak attack him once he uses it. It analyzes the body's components, and basically just goes "hey this place is the optimal point to attack lmao", though it also let him do things like analyze a unmanned drone to find the AI center and then plunge his blade into it to take it over. Honestly it kinda invalidates teleportation, Raiden will know where he is at all times.

I am not applying in verse tho...

Amps have been assumed to be 7.5x for versus sake. And I swear there used to a rule explaining it too. I can't find it any longer tho.

You are though, even if not intentionally.
You're taking the 7.5x one shot for matches, saying Vergil in verse can use it to one shot things. So in the match it must be 7.5x too when he amps. That isn't how it works. It's merely unquantifiable. For matches sake, it's treated as "let's him one shot dude's who are [AP value]", but it wouldn't let him be equal to someone 7.5x above that value in a match, or even 5x or something (unless the one shot in question is insane, but that's more case by case and common sense type of thing), not "makes him 7.5x above [AP value] because he one shot something at that value".
Amps have never been treated to be a flat 7.5x, due to one shotting in verse, if they have, it's wrong and whatever thread that has done that needs to be looked at again. It's unquantifiable, the same Raiden's own RM amp is unquantifiable.

Heee yo.... That's low blow. That's DB is extreme case, you could run out of ink with how unfairly the verse gets treated sometimes.

It might be, but that's the first thing to come to mind other than funny Star Platinum angery go brrr and Ripper Mode itself.

I mean I wouldn't oppose that. I don't like arbitrarily assuming something is greater or lesser than it's other counterparts in same context unless it was explicitly stated.

Yeah but it goes both ways, we don't know if they aren't the same, but we also don't know if they are the same funnily enough, RM in gameplay is about a 7x damage boost but because no statement, we can't treat it like anything or the same as speed amp, if we could, Raiden would 10x his calculated value in RM, which would be great, but unfortunately we can't prove it
I do want to get RM a multiplier though in the future, even if a small one
Don't forget Raiden can take a killing blow 5 times

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I will respond to rest of stuff later.

But short update.... I was having Mandela effect and misremembered the 7.5x thing, I asked Tony and also went around and checked few threads back in 2020 where I last remember it being happening, turns out I was wrong.
So I concede on that.

 

[Braking]

Can they do a backflip?

 

[Sevil Natas]

virgin Vergil aint fit for this
bring in chad vergil instead

 

[Chariot190]

virgin Vergil aint fit for this
bring in chad vergil instead

I can't argue against the actual not dogshit Virgin, so don't

 

[Sevil Natas]

I can't argue against the actual not dogshit Virgin, so don't

ofc u cant, he's too motivated to be argued against :v

 

[Chariot190]

Can they do a backflip?

Yes

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Yeah? Raiden has good acrobatics too, actually kinda insane, even in his Patriot Body dude can break dance on a sword or do like fifty flips.
He also has boosting too.
Only thing he lacks is teleportation but that aint gonna do anything against him, don't forget Raiden has experience with Psycho Mantis, someone who spams teleportation far beyond Vergil.

Shrug, it tells him where his foes are, the exact distance down to the cm, lets him see through walls, it's omnidirectional too so you can't sneak attack him once he uses it. It analyzes the body's components, and basically just goes "hey this place is the optimal point to attack lmao", though it also let him do things like analyze a unmanned drone to find the AI center and then plunge his blade into it to take it over. Honestly it kinda invalidates teleportation, Raiden will know where he is at all times.

You are though, even if not intentionally.
You're taking the 7.5x one shot for matches, saying Vergil in verse can use it to one shot things. So in the match it must be 7.5x too when he amps. That isn't how it works. It's merely unquantifiable. For matches sake, it's treated as "let's him one shot dude's who are [AP value]", but it wouldn't let him be equal to someone 7.5x above that value in a match, or even 5x or something (unless the one shot in question is insane, but that's more case by case and common sense type of thing), not "makes him 7.5x above [AP value] because he one shot something at that value".
Amps have never been treated to be a flat 7.5x, due to one shotting in verse, if they have, it's wrong and whatever thread that has done that needs to be looked at again. It's unquantifiable, the same Raiden's own RM amp is unquantifiable.

It might be, but that's the first thing to come to mind other than funny Star Platinum angery go brrr and Ripper Mode itself.

Yeah but it goes both ways, we don't know if they aren't the same, but we also don't know if they are the same funnily enough, RM in gameplay is about a 7x damage boost but because no statement, we can't treat it like anything or the same as speed amp, if we could, Raiden would 10x his calculated value in RM, which would be great, but unfortunately we can't prove it
I do want to get RM a multiplier though in the future, even if a small one
Don't forget Raiden can take a killing blow 5 times

There’s no way it’s a 7 times multiplier that sounds fake as hell
If true tho then that would make monsoon have more hp than armstrong which is funny

 

[Chariot190]

It's about 7x in gameplay, it also has an armor breaker effect
No it would just make Armstrong scale to it as well
also you're acting like monsoon didn't get his ass kicked