(R1M6) - Judgement vs Undyne (Inverted Fate)

[TheMassivlyUnkn0wn]

Check out the hub for info!​

Come one come all to The Super Cool 8-B Tournament! In our sixth match of round 1: we have a matchup!!! using an fc/oc character that's cool right??? The High Prosecutor of Hell, Judgement! And the Underground's Determined Sceintist, Undyne!

Rules are stated in the tournament hub. So you can read those if you need a refresher.

Judgement: 0
Undyne: 0
Inconclusive: 0

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Bruh

Only her chains are 8-B and Undyne has Soul Magic

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Undyne kinda just uses Green Mode, and one-shots since she doesn't need to move to summon her spears, so Judgement restraining her isn't even an option

 

[LaserPrecision]

Yeah, think Judgement kinda gets negged. Only thing I can think of is if Undyne's 8-B key relies on her mech (Which I'm not sure. I don't see key names anywhere on her profile), then Judgement could use her technology manipulation to disable it/turn it on/off. Leaving her in her 9-A key from which she can one-shot her. If the 8-B rating isn't reliant on the mech, Judgement has literally no win-cons. Well, there's a few things I could think of. But it depends on Undyne's starting moves and her exact range.

 

[noisyPitta]

Undyne FRA

 

[LaserPrecision]

Could I get a confirmation from whoever submitted Undyne regarding their keys, starting move, and maybe their best display of range? While this battle admittedly seems hopeless in Judgement's favor, I think the verdict could change depending on those factors.

 

[TheMassivlyUnkn0wn]

Bump

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

To answer the questions, yes, Undyne's 8-B key does rely on her Mech. However, it's debatable whether the Technology Manipulation Judgement got from operating a conveyor belt would enable her to effectively shut down a complex Motion-Capture Mecha designed by a renowned Extraordinary Genius. It's also likely that the Determinator's magical components present an additional layer of complexity.

As for Undyne's starting moves, in both of her encounters with Frisk, Undyne starts by shattering the ground beneath their feet, leaving them perilously close to plummeting into the depths of the CORE, were it not for their trusty Jetpack.
She then swiftly unleashes a barrage of eye lasers, hand swipes, and mouth lasers (The latter of which can one-shot Frisk)

Undertale Characters don't really have a solid-range calc, but Undyne usually fights in medium range (Around 5 meters of distance)

 

[LaserPrecision]

To answer the questions, yes, Undyne's 8-B key does rely on her Mech. However, it's debatable whether the Technology Manipulation Judgement got from operating a conveyor belt would enable her to effectively shut down a complex Motion-Capture Mecha designed by a renowned Extraordinary Genius. It's also likely that the Determinator's magical components present an additional layer of complexity.

As for Undyne's starting moves, in both of her encounters with Frisk, Undyne starts by shattering the ground beneath their feet, leaving them perilously close to plummeting into the depths of the CORE, were it not for their trusty Jetpack.
She then swiftly unleashes a barrage of eye lasers, hand swipes, and mouth lasers (The latter of which can one-shot Frisk)

Undertale Characters don't really have a solid-range calc, but Undyne usually fights in medium range (Around 5 meters of distance)

Alright, that does help out a lot. So thanks for clarifying.

I share the same sentiment that it may be difficult or impossible to switch the mech off. However, Judgement her self is well acquainted with magic. She uses it to make her chains, and all demons of hell are apparently stated to have magic by the creator (I was told that anyway. I hadn't looked into it. But it does explain almost all of them having powers). So I don't think the magic aspect would throw them for much of a loop. When it comes to technology manipulation, I'm not sure if complexity plays a role. Not 100% sure anyways. Since you interact with tech via hax. With hacking I would definitely agree that complexity matters. And is in fact one of the most important things regarding hax. So I feel her turning the mech off is within the realm of possibility.

However, let's assume she can't turn the mech off, full stop. Assuming her maximum effective range is around 5 meters, that does put things more in Judgement's favor. She loves to range spam. Her whole gimmick is standing and flying out of range to spam nigh-danmaku like attacks to tear her opponent to shreds with chains. So I think it's possible due to Judgement's range advantage (IIRC, I calculated her range to be roughly 40 meters), I think her pulling a win by simply staying out of range and assaulting her with a shit ton of chains is very plausible.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

It should also be noted that, Mettaton, who akin to Judgement has somewhat basic tech manip, tried to get ahold of Papyrus and override Undyne's firewall instead of just disactivating the Determinator when Undyne attacked, so yeah

One major problem with the range spam wincon is that, while Undyne may prioritize medium range combat, she still has "At least Tens of meters" as Range, so I assume she'd still be able to tag Judgement even from a 20 meter distance, and since Judgement is 8-C, yeah
Undyne can also turn Judgement's SOUL green, freezing her in place and preventing her from moving from her current location, which would completely null this strat

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Also, gotta say, Judgement's page having gifs of her attacks looks really good

 

[LaserPrecision]

It should also be noted that, Mettaton, who akin to Judgement has somewhat basic tech manip, tried to get ahold of Papyrus and override Undyne's firewall instead of just disactivating the Determinator when Undyne attacked, so yeah

To be fair, I don't think we get the means of how they're going to try to breach the firewall.

One major problem with the range spam wincon is that, while Undyne may prioritize medium range combat, she still has "At least Tens of meters" as Range, so I assume she'd still be able to tag Judgement even from a 20 meter distance, and since Judgement is 8-C, yeah
Undyne can also turn Judgement's SOUL green, freezing her in place and preventing her from moving from her current location, which would completely null this strat

I was actually curious on how good their "tens of meters" range is. What attacks in specific look to be tens of meters in-game?

I agree the green soul thing would be an issue. Though if they start of with their medium range stuff instead, I think that gives Judgement the time she needs to get as far as she can as she did with Helltaker. Which would be a little over 40 meters. If Undyne tried to close that distance, Judgement would either fly further, or immobilize their movement with their chains. From there, she could either try melting through the robot via the chain restraining her, or just launch more chains at them.

Also, gotta say, Judgement's page having gifs of her attacks looks really good

Thanks. When I was drafting the sandbox for her I figured gifs would be better than pictures for demonstrating her powers.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

To be fair, I don't think we get the means of how they're going to try to breach the firewall.

I was mostly saying that Mettaton never considered deactivating the Determinator, despite having Tech Manip

I was actually curious on how good their "tens of meters" range is. What attacks in specific look to be tens of meters in-game?

I agree the green soul thing would be an issue. Though if they start of with their medium range stuff instead, I think that gives Judgement the time she needs to get as far as she can as she did with Helltaker. Which would be a little over 40 meters. If Undyne tried to close that distance, Judgement would either fly further, or immobilize their movement with their chains. From there, she could either try melting through the robot via the chain restraining her, or just launch more chains at them.

According to this old calc, Undyne's first chase scene gets 17.29 meters and someone's rough estimate of this feat gets around 40 meters
The Determinator's own best range feat is I think its missiles reaching the CORE's ceiling(?) in a relatively short amount of time

Also, since speed is equalized, the Determinator is able to move normally despite its large size and as a result, should be able cross the distance between them far more easily, plus it already scaling 2x above Judgements' chains and being able to fly, would make keeping Undyne at bay, quite the difficult challenge
Judgement would also have to account for Undyne's eye lasers, mouth beams, shark missiles and her thought-summoned spears, so physically restraining her probably wouldn't do much unless Judgement does so from pretty far away

 

[LaserPrecision]

I was mostly saying that Mettaton never considered deactivating the Determinator, despite having Tech Manip

I get that. I was trying to say that Mettaton could've been trying to breach the firewall with their tech manipulation. Tho I would note that Mettaton's tech manip just seems to block signals.

According to this old calc, Undyne's first chase scene gets 17.29 meters and someone's rough estimate of this feat gets around 40 meters
The Determinator's own best range feat is I think its missiles reaching the CORE's ceiling(?) in a relatively short amount of time

Isn't the latter from Undertale? Like the original game? Not the fan one this Undyne comes from? Or do they have an identical feat?

Also, since speed is equalized, the Determinator is able to move normally despite its large size and as a result, should be able cross the distance between them far more easily

Being larger with equal size, at least when it comes to flying, shouldn't make crossing the same distance faster.

plus it already scaling 2x above Judgements' chains and being able to fly, would make keeping Undyne at bay, quite the difficult challenge

Yeah, her scaling above the chains AP is a little difficult to deal with. However, given she can spam a shit ton of them, and they scale 10x above her combat speed. She could quickly barrage Undyne with an comedic amount of chains to wear them down quickly.

Judgement would also have to account for Undyne's eye lasers, mouth beams, shark missiles and her thought-summoned spears, so physically restraining her probably wouldn't do much unless Judgement does so from pretty far away

Well, that is assuming those all have 40+ meters of range. I think using the canon game as a basis for a fan games range is a bit of a stretch personally. Though I think Undyne may have to worry about Judgement's chains melting right through the mech. Given it doesn't seem to have a listed resistance to heat/fire. If a chain was wrapped around it, and heated up (As it was against Helltaker), it would eventually melt through the mech, effectively destroying it.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Tho I would note that Mettaton's tech manip just seems to block signals.

IFMettaton performs similar tech manip feats to his canon counterpart, like elevating the CORE platform and hacking a door, so I wouldn't really say that

Isn't the latter from Undertale? Like the original game? Not the fan one this Undyne comes from? Or do they have an identical feat?

"Taking place after a failed Undertale Pacifist run, Inverted Fate explores what would happen if Asriel did reset the timeline- but something went horribly wrong and resulted in a brand new world. The six “Lost Souls” from this fight have had their destinies misaligned, though their personalities remain intact, and their choices have had drastic consequences on this new world."
Inverted Fate is a "pseudo-sequel to UT" and follows its rules to a T. It even disregards popular fanon like Gaster being mysteryman or the void,
This is supported further by Dorked calling the previous timeline "the canon" and STATs being the same between the two canons,
There's also a bunch of Secret Pages that detail everything that happened in the previous timeline, and minus the descriptions and Frisk actually talking, all the lines are the same. Here's a list of all the Secret Pages that follow the previous timeline;

• GASTOS - Recording 44
• GASTOS - Recording 59
• GASTOS - Recording 30
• GASTOS - Recording 48
• GASTOS - Recording 77
• GASTOS - Recording 33
• GASTOS - Recording 70
• GASTOS - Recording 47
• GASTOS - Recording 60
• GASTOS - Recording 61
• GASTOS - Recording 62

Being larger with equal size, at least when it comes to flying, shouldn't make crossing the same distance faster.

The Determinator can cross its body length distance as simultaneously as Judgement, so its large size should give Undyne a slight edge in speed

Though I think Undyne may have to worry about Judgement's chains melting right through the mech. Given it doesn't seem to have a listed resistance to heat/fire. If a chain was wrapped around it, and heated up (As it was against Helltaker), it would eventually melt through the mech, effectively destroying it.

The Determinator upscales from Undyne's own Heat Resistance that lets her survive in Hotland, which can reach temperatures high enough to vaporize a styrofoam cup and water instantly, so don't think heating up the Determinator would work

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Welp, due to recent upgrades, The Determinator is going to become 7-C and as such should be disqualified, pretty sad stuff