[R1M6] FC/OC 9-C Tournament: The Player (Project Zomboid) vs Seeker (Monstrosity) (GRACE)

[ThePrimalHunter]

Round 1 Match 6:
The Player (Project Zomboid) vs Seeker (Monstrosity)

Same rules as in the tournament

• Speed is equal
• Both have prior knowledge
• Both start 15m away
• Fight takes place in a dark allyway
• A large array of weapons are laying on the ground that can be used
• The Survivor's bomb is restricted
• Winner moves on in the tournament

The Survivor is 3 - 3.9 KJ
Seeker is 3.735 KJ

Who Wins?

The Player (Project Zomboid): 3 (King_Dom470, Volt12121, MintyBoi1)
Seeker: 0 ()
Incon: 0 ()

 

[Volt12121]

So, The Player's major prombles are gonna be Seeker's fear Manipulation and overwhelming Lifting Strength

While the Player resist Fear Manipulation, their resistance is far more limited as it only really allows them to better control their panic (heck, Night terrors can still raise said panic), Seeker's mere presence causes irrational panic alongside illusions of how the player could perish by his hands. Seeker's fear Inducement eventually becomes so overwhelming that people will attempt to run away from him even if said individual were safe in their hiding spot.

As for Lifting Strength, that is Seeker's primary use of attacking, He will grab his opponent using his large size to his advantage and began maiming them until they are dead.

 

[MarkGoldbridge]

While the Player resist Fear Manipulation, their resistance is far more limited as it only really allows them to better control their panic (heck, Night terrors can still raise said panic)

Actually, a player with the veteran occupation is completely immune to fear.

Who Wins?

The Player with traits would probably make this fight a lot more fair but here we go;

The Player;

• Possibly a bit less or a bit more AP.
• Can walk away from shotgun shells with most of them being about 3 KJ.
• Although debilitating, can survive sniper bullets with every one of them being over 3.5 KJ.
• About 35x LS disadvantage.
• I would have suggested that The Player would just run away but Seeker's stamina is unknown.
• Massive intelligence advantage, don't know how that helps though.
• The Player has access to axes, baseball bats, sledgehammers, katanas, machetes, spears, garden forks, and as far as I'm concerned molotov coctail ≠ bomb so The Player can use that.
• Although The Player isn't much skilled in using these at the start of the game, they still do the job. Even when you start a new game you can crush skulls with a baseball bat in one hit, also you can do the same by yourself. The is the second reason I think that The Player with traits would make this a lot more fair.

Not voting anyone for now.

 

[Volt12121]

Actually, a player with the veteran occupation is completely immune to fear.

Is that so? Sorry if that's the case i was going off the wiki which says Night Terrors still affect characters with Desensitized

As for everything else, trying to stab Seeker might prove difficult as a bullet to the head merely momentarily stuns him and getting close to him makes it the best opportunity for him to simply grab the player and overwhelm them with his lifting strength before he began mercilessly maiming them

 

[MarkGoldbridge]

Is that so? Sorry if that's the case i was going off the wiki which says Night Terrors still affect characters with Desensitized

I could be wrong, but I never encountered them in my 67 hours of playtime. (Not much but it is what it is)

As for everything else, trying to stab Seeker might prove difficult as a bullet to the head merely momentarily stuns him and getting close to him makes it the best opportunity for him to simply grab the player and overwhelm them with his lifting strength before he began mercilessly maiming them

What you're saying is right, but I'm still waiting ThePrimalHunter's response to changing base player to with traits and is molotov allowed or not.

 

[Volt12121]

At 0:49, he says that night terrors are still able to make them reach a panicked state, and that it only really stop panic from seeing zombies. So it would honestly be more of them being good at handling stress than a resistance to fear

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

What you're saying is right, but I'm still waiting ThePrimalHunter's response to changing base player to with traits and is molotov allowed or not.

All traits are allowed

Also, I'm iffy on the molotov being allowed, but ig it technically doesn't break any of the rules, so sure, the survivor can have one molotov

 

[MarkGoldbridge]

Actually, a player with the veteran occupation is completely immune to fear.

The Player with traits would probably make this fight a lot more fair but here we go;

The Player;

• Possibly a bit less or a bit more AP.
• Can walk away from shotgun shells with most of them being about 3 KJ.
• Although debilitating, can survive sniper bullets with every one of them being over 3.5 KJ.
• About 35x LS disadvantage.
• I would have suggested that The Player would just run away but Seeker's stamina is unknown.
• Massive intelligence advantage, don't know how that helps though.
• The Player has access to axes, baseball bats, sledgehammers, katanas, machetes, spears, garden forks, and as far as I'm concerned molotov coctail ≠ bomb so The Player can use that.
• Although The Player isn't much skilled in using these at the start of the game, they still do the job. Even when you start a new game you can crush skulls with a baseball bat in one hit, also you can do the same by yourself. The is the second reason I think that The Player with traits would make this a lot more fair.

Not voting anyone for now.

Additions to this;

• Would be more agile than his base.
• A greater stealth mastery.
• Would be pretty experienced in using any type of weapon.
• Would not fear The Seeker's presence.
• Would see better at night, allowing him to fight better in a dark alley.
• His perception, hearing, and seeing radius would be bigger.
• Technically would be a bit stronger and more physically fit.
• His melee weapons will have more knockback.
• Would have a lot more accuracy with weapons.
• Since The Seeker doesn't have resistance to fire, The Player would abuse the molotov.

Still not voting, waiting for someone to defend The Seeker.

 

[Volt12121]

A greater stealth mastery

This isn't very helpful as Stealth Mastery is near useless in an alleyway

Would not fear The Seeker's presence

As shown above, Characters with Desensitized are still capable of being affacted by Panic, they just control their stress better when it comes to zombies. Seeker's fear Inducement has nothing with him looking scary.

His melee weapons will have more knockback.

Which won't be helpful on a character who drastically overcome them in terms of Lifting Strength.

Since The Seeker doesn't have resistance to fire, The Player would abuse the molotov

I doubt the player would attempt to throw molotoves in an Alleyway, sounds more like a good way to get themselves kill

 

[MassiveMeddlers]

How about Player spamming smoke bombs and try to killing him with stealth mastery and traits? There is also a intelligence difference. Or he can spam molotovs to the alley,puts the iron sticks through the brick wall with hammer and makes a ladder, albeit a bad one. He will be above the fire when the whole street is burning.

 

[Volt12121]

Smoke bombs would for super be annoying for seeker, i can't argue with that, but can the player see out of them? Otherwise they aren't actively helping themselves

As for stealth mastery, they are in an alley way, there isn't really place for them to stealth, same goes for seeker would adore to be able to stealth. As for other traits, i haven't really seen anything useful, it most makes them wield their weapon better, but they are fighting someone who they can't knock back and have a incredibly minor ap edge over.

As for molotov, the player would have to aim while deeply fearing Seeker (as explained above the Desensitized trait shouldn't work on Seeker's Supernatural way of inflicting fear) and numerous illusion of seeker killing them in gruesome which would blur their visions

 

[MarkGoldbridge]

Smoke bombs would for super be annoying for seeker, i can't argue with that, but can the player see out of them?

The vision increase in dark areas thing also works on fogs which shouldn't be too different from a smoke bomb.

Even if The Player can't clearly see Seeker, The Player would make out the location of him easily. Even base player can detect zombies that are behind The Player. The Player can also detect zombies that are behind walls, doors, fences, windows and much more places. With the seeing, hearing and perception radius increase The Player wouldn't have a hard time pointing out where Seeker is.

 

[Volt12121]

So

The Player's wincon

Smoke bomb + Molotov spam

Seeker's wincon

Player missing due to Fear Manip + Illusion creation leading to a grab the player can't escape out off

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Or he can spam molotovs to the alley

Also, I'm iffy on the molotov being allowed, but ig it technically doesn't break any of the rules, so sure, the survivor can have one molotov

 

[Volt12121]

Oh damn, if the player only has one molotov then Seeker' chances drastically increase. Afterwards the player would be forced to try and face him head on for the kill, but Seeker's fear would eventually make them attempt to run away. Both situation really offers Seeker the opportunity for a grab

 

[MassiveMeddlers]

With graceful trait and sneak ability at the last level, player don't make a sound when he's sneaking. The only thing left is vision, and I think it can be done with smoke bombs.
Also, It must also be quite difficult to extinguish a well-thrown Molotov. After all, there's nothing to put out the fire in the alley. Even if there is water, water is not very effective on gasoline fires.
So Survivor throws Molotov first to seekers face first, then immediately goes into stealth in smokes and wait until fire kills him or severely injures then deals the killing blow.

 

[Volt12121]

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Also, It must also be quite difficult to extinguish a well-thrown Molotov

Which the player is gonna have a hard time to do when they overwhelmed with fear and illusions of their own death.

Also how big are the smoke bomb's smoke? Because Seeker is 18 feet tall, realistically his height could make him near unaffected by them

 

[MassiveMeddlers]

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Which the player is gonna have a hard time to do when they overwhelmed with fear and illusions of their own death.

Also how big are the smoke bomb's smoke? Because Seeker is 18 feet tall, realistically his height could make him near unaffected by them

The smoke should be about one unit high, around 3 meters. But it doesn't matter. After all, it prevents him from seeing the player. Because in the smoke, Player can see.
But the seeker can't see through the smoke. I guess he could try to throw a Molotov at nearly point-blank range. Now. Does Seeker have the ability to disperse the fog?
I don't think it will try to retreat or other things with limited intelligence.

 

[Volt12121]

Point blank range would be hard to achieve due to Seeker's own range, he may not be able to see the player, but he still has several meters of range with his arms, realistically, it's not impossible for him to just find the player via touch in the smoke.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Seekers win cons seem better, voting him since he could potentially seek out Player through smoke or just make him miss his shot

 

[Volt12121]

I'll be voting Seeker as well

 

[MarkGoldbridge]

Adding few more things to The Player that came to my mind right now
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Versus thread rules;

• Speed Amplification techniques are assumed to grant the same percentile of increase to a character's equalized speeds, as they would to their usual speeds.

PZwiki;

• Characters with Adrenaline Junkie will gain a 10% or 25% movement speed bonus when at Strong or Extreme Panic, respectively.

PZwiki;

• The Player with the Athletic trait would start at level 4 fitness meaning;
• Faster endurance loss and faster endurance recovery, 8% attack speed increase

Meaning that The Player would move and attack a bit faster than Seeker.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
PZwiki;

• Thick Skinned;
• Multiplies the chance of not being injured by a zombie attack by 1.3 (base 15% chance, modified by character's weapon skill). Additionally, alters the chance of clothes being damaged by walking through trees to 1 in 13.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seeker's fear manip states that "Seeker's mere presence puts deep irational panic and fear into people alongside causing them to see images of the possible ways Seeker could maim them, eventually overwhelming their mind and forcing their body to attempt to run away from him"

Though this effect would not %100 apply on The Player, as he would be better at handling fear than nearly everybody in the world.
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As MassiveMeddlers said, The Player's footsteps wouldn't make a sound. Inside the smoke, The Player would have more chance to win than Seeker. Given that this is the smoke's range, Seeker wouldn't be able to reach anywhere from anywhere. The Player can move and attack faster than Seeker and he can basically see inside the smoke so it will be more likely that The Player would win. Though the Seeker is a bit taller than the smoke, as smoke covers up about a floor of a house, it will not grant an advantage inside of it. Because The Player doesn't make sounds, he would be able to damage Seeker without getting noticed.

If we consider that The Player will throw a molotov at Seeker before all of this, Seeker would be heavily damaged by the time Seeker catches up to The Player, who will be hiding in a smoke. I agree with MassiveMeddlers' story here.

Voting The Player, I guess MassiveMeddlers also votes The Player too;

So Survivor throws Molotov first to seekers face first, then immediately goes into stealth in smokes and wait until fire kills him or severely injures then deals the killing blow.

 

[MintyBoi1]

The range is good but being in such a constricted space as a typical alleyway leaves Player with too little wiggle room to avoid such great reach

 

[Volt12121]

Yeah, there really isn't place for the player to go and escape Seeker's range, also not making sound isn't very useful when Seeker would attempt to find the Player via touch

 

[King_Dom470]

Would like to point out that panic and fear are both completely countered if the player has beta blockers but the fear manip doesn’t seem like that big of an issue anyway.

The player is used to battling opponents who are stronger than them at the start of the game your basically a walking atrophying muscle and can still manage to beat hordes of zombies via speed and range. Granted the range is something they can't take advantage of but they are still way faster, more skilled and way smarter. Especially given prior knowledge and molotovs and smoke bombs. They could throw the smoke bomb and then throw the molotov (Since it has a huge explosion radius theres no way they’ll miss). And then just beat it to death after the smoke clears

 

[Volt12121]

They have literally one moltov and i wouldn't really say that this is a huge explosion radius. It honestly rather small so they can very likely miss. But let's say they have a HUGE explosion radius, what then? They are stuck in an alley way on fire, that's suicidal.


The moment they try to get close and beat Seeker to death, they get grab and maim to death. Skill and intelligence won't matter much if they literally can't break out of his hold

 

[King_Dom470]

They have literally one moltov and i wouldn't really say that this is a huge explosion radius. It honestly rather small so they can very likely miss. But let's say they have a HUGE explosion radius, what then? They are stuck in an alley way on fire, that's suicidal.

I more meant that given the small area of the alley way comparatively its pretty big theres no way they’ll miss a giant monster in a small alley even if their vision is obscured.

The moment they try to get close and beat Seeker to death, they get grab and maim to death. Skill and intelligence won't matter much if they literally can't break out of his hold

The player isn't just gonna let themselves get yoinked the fire would cause so much pain that it would probably be kinda hard to even concentrate on fighting. And the players faster so its gonna have trouble grabbing them in the first place

 

[Volt12121]

I more meant that given the small area of the alley way comparatively its pretty big theres no way they’ll miss a giant monster in a small alley even if their vision is obscured.

Seeker's fear and Illusions + starting distance would make it incredibly difficult to get a good shot at throwing their moltov.

The player isn't just gonna let themselves get yoinked the fire would cause so much pain that it would probably be kinda hard to even concentrate on fighting. And the players faster so its gonna have trouble grabbing them in the first place

Speed is utterly irrelevant here, given Seeker has several meters of range due to his long arms, running away would honestly make it easier for him to just grab them + the pain from the fire would just matter if he actually gets hits by the moltov which i've discusses about is just utterly unlikely

 

[King_Dom470]

Seeker's fear and Illusions + starting distance would make it incredibly difficult to get a good shot at throwing their moltov.

Fear is actually worthless it won't work on the player

Speed is utterly irrelevant here, given Seeker has several meters of range due to his long arms, running away would honestly make it easier for him to just grab them + the pain from the fire would just matter if he actually gets hits by the moltov which i've discusses about is just utterly unlikely

Its a very small location literally anyone could hit an 18 foot tall monster in a small enclosed space especially a veteran the molotov is hitting the monster 100% of the time

 

[Volt12121]

Then i suppose Seeker dies by flame, player fra

 

[MintyBoi1]

If fear is really useless, I'll also vote Player FRA