Questions about SCP-001 (S Andrew Swann's Proposal)

[Kistern]

How about SCP-001's meta nature?

If a 1B character is somehow described in the SCP wiki,isn't it still fiction to 001? So will it lead to the upgrade of 001?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Technically yes. Swann should actually already be well into 1-B tier already going by the dimensionality of the God-Tiers above Yaldabaoth/Mekhane's level

 

[Schnee_One]

Then why isn't he?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Because i havent made the CRT that would put them that high, but they would be somewhere between 15 and 17-D at a minimum

 

[Kistern]

So we can know 001 is "at least" 1B because 001 created 1C gods.

The problem is, in SCP-3500, Roget is identified as an 001 instance,who is a real person.

SCP-001 is the creator of the SCP wiki,however, the proposal itself doesn't say that 001 is a fictional character.If 001 means something real, how can we treat it as a character?

Another question:I believe 001's age and gender should be "varies" instead of "unknown".

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Swann is transcendent of The Almighty, who is transcendent of the High Elder Gods, who are transcendent of the Brothers Death, who are transcendent of the Gift taproot of the Tree of Knowledge, which is transcendent of the Low Elder Gods, which are 11-D. There is a statement of the multiverse being 11-Dimensional, so factoring time into that means the Low Elder Gods could possibly be 12-D, which would bump everyone on that list up a dimension.

And yes, 001 created weaker instances of itself to insert into the story in order to adjust the narrative into a more concise, orderly structure.

 

[Kistern]

Yes,Dr. Roget is a character,also an author avatar.

However,in SCP-3500 there is a sentence including a phrase:"swn001-1-rgt(Roget)",along with a hyperlink to Roget's wikidot account."swn001" surely stands for Swann' 001 proposal.Dr Roget is Roget's avatar,while Roget is a real person.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Exactly, instances of 001-Swann are avatars created by Swann to interact with the narrative directly instead of manipulating it from the outside like Swann does.

 

[Kistern]

The problem is,does 001 stands for real people?If so,all battles about 001 will become meaningless.

 

[LoliPower]

It actually does, Kistern. It is pretty evident if you read Project OverMeta. The "Overvoid" of the SCP-verse is the HTML page being hosted both in the verse itself and in the real world, it is clearly said. Not to mention in SCP-3500 Dr. Penelope Panagiotopolous directly addresses the reader and even exposes the realization that amongst the readers there are the writers. Also, according to Swann's original proposal page, you have to take into account that even SCPs that existed but do not currently exist are still technically a feat of Swann. That is, whenever someone made an SCP which was something along the lines of "an omnipotent, all transcending God", which I am pretty sure has been done before, though retconned, both that creation and retcon are feats of Swann. So, it is higher than just what "currently" exists in the SCP-verse, if anything beyond what is currently in it has been created. It is a pain in the ass CRT to make though.

Swann itself is the highest analogue possible in fiction to "real people", that is, it is something very similar to The Writer, except it is on the internet and not a book, and there is a separate similar "analogue" of the "Overvoid" in the SCP-verse itself, in the form of "the database" (which is Swann's designation in the main 001 hub) to create a slightly different link. There is even a direct reference to Grant Morrison's "Monitor-Mind The Overvoid" itself in the document, it's quite amazing.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Swann itself is the highest analogue possible in fiction to "real people", that is, it is something very similar to The Writer, except it is on the internet and not a book, and there is a separate similar "analogue" of the "Overvoid" in the SCP-verse itself, in the form of "the database" (which is Swann's designation in the main 001 hub) to create a slightly different link. There is even a direct reference to Grant Morrison's "Monitor-Mind The Overvoid" itself in the document, it's quite amazing.

It's not, actually. The reason for that is Overmeta Swann isn't an analogue to real people; it's literally real people. This is why trying to merge meta SCP and in-universe SCP doesn't work very well.

Original Swann's Proposal is a very clear analogue to the SCP writers, but is not literally the writers.

Overmeta Swann's Proposal is literally regular humans.

This is also due to vastly differing author interpretations on what it should and shouldn't be.

 

[LoliPower]

While there is actually the "real people" at play here, what I mean is that the original Swann proposal is more simply talking about the projection of Swann's effect onto the story, as that's what is actually perceived by the Foundation. SCP-3500 and Project OverMeta then try to expand on that and the true origins, other than simply "it's a bunch of horror writers". In a whole, as I see it, Swann's essence in-verse is just to be above and beyond everything, it is the force that drives the story in any direction that the "real people" want to take it in, a representation of their will in fictionality.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

That's how it's mostly treated in the original. What I am referring to is how Swann's proposal is literally just real people in Overmeta, because the SCP verse is fake.

 

[LoliPower]

I guess, but are we just going to ignore SCP-3500 and Project OverMeta as a whole when it comes to Swann's profile here?

About Swann and the similarities with The Writer in general though, here's a little something:

"Swann, also known as the authors of the SCP wiki, is quite simply the writer of the SCP-verse, as manifested in the fictional reality.

Believed to be the entity which wrote the SCP-verse on the HTML page that is the Overvoid, Swann is the SCP-verse's true supreme being. To him or her, reality and its inhabitants are just story characters that can be shaped into whatever he desires them to be, and should he or she become unsatisfied with the current state of creation, it can all be easily altered through a retcon.

Being completely beyond all stories and hierarchies within the SCP-verse, Swann is all-powerful and completely unknowable from the perspectives of his or her characters. Likewise, no character can comprehend the complete Swann, instead of only being capable of interacting with representations. Thus while multiple writers of differing ages, genders and tastes may manifest in the SCP-verse to interact with and affect their creations, they are all only aspects of a collective writer responsible for all stories."

Don't take it seriously, but it seems to fit Swann pretty nicely, heh.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"I guess, but are we just going to ignore SCP-3500 and Project OverMeta as a whole when it comes to Swann's profile here?"

If we want the rest of the verse to make sense and/or not be Tier 11, then yeah probably. It doesn't help that Overmeta isn't a tale. Though 3500 is far, far less direct in saying "001 is literally just real people".

 

[LoliPower]

Well there was an exception made for The Writer, was there not? Both cases are messing around heavily with reality-fiction interaction in very similar ways. We obviously still have to tier the SCPs in general from a fictional point of view.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Azzy you made UT High 2-A based on metafictional stuff. Let SCP metafiction in peace.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Well there was an exception made for The Writer, was there not?

The Writer is not even remotely the same thing. It is a very, very clear analogue for the real world writers, but it is not a literal human inhabiting our world. Same as how the Overvoid is not a literal sheet of paper. They are extremely obvious analogues, but still ingrained in the verse itself. This does not put everything in the perspective of pure fiction the same way "Swann's proposal is only transcendent of the rest of the verse because it's a regular human and the verse is fake" does.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Azzy you made UT High 2-A based on metafictional stuff. Let SCP metafiction in peace.

Annoying Dog is not literally the real world Toby Fox. If he was, he wouldn't be High 2-A just for being Toby Fox. He's a metafictional bullshit character, but he's not a regular person. Notice how the Anomaly, who is also an analogue for you, is never portrayed as the supreme being or transcendent of everything else on every level.

The problem does not come from metafiction itself (we have quite a few verses that use it). The problem comes from a verse flat out saying the supreme being is a normal person in your exact world who is supreme simply because they write these stories, even though they are no more special than you.

 

[LoliPower]

I see what you mean, but there has to be a compromise somewhere in the middle between the expansive OverMeta/SCP-3500 Swann and original proposal Swann, because at the end of the day Swann still is the supreme being responsible for the creation of the SCP-verse. That includes SCP-3500 at least, and SCP-3500 ultimately encompasses OverMeta. And if you want to get really meta, possibly SCP-001 itself (that is, the awareness and assumptions that the Foundation has and makes of Swann would only be possible because Swann allows it) as well as many other retcons, who while being hard to quantify are still technically feats as per what the original document states.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

They're not so much retcons as other author's interpretations, though. Therein lies the problem. 3500 is easier to reconcile with original Swann, but Overmeta is more of a self-aware joke done for an author's page.

 

[LoliPower]

Well, not necessarily other authors. What I mean is that SCPs have been erased and remade, alongside all the story that goes with it, whether by truly other authors or not (since Swann is comprised of a "bunch of horror writers" and not one singular entity, they could be remade by either the "original author" or "someone else", though it would all fall within the "Swann pool"). Of course, if we try to be more literal, the rejection and remake of an SCP could be for a wide variety of reasons. It could be due to "popular opinion", so to speak, or simply because the original author wills it to be changed. So I think it kind of falls into retcons in the end.

 

[Kistern]

How about SCP-2747 ?So far no one has mentioned this.It's also meta,and the end of the entry strongly supposed that 2747 treats the SCP Foundation as a piece of fictional narrative.SCP-2747 destroys narratives instead of specific objects(the SCPverse is an object,the specific part of the articles is a piece of narrative)But 2747 is still Swann's creation,so Swann should also know that the SCPverse is a piece of fiction. This strongly supposes that Swann stands for real writers.

Swann is only described in the fiction,but not actually appeared.It is possible that they are real people "out of fiction".This is different from The Writer because The Writer appears in the comic and is still an author avatar.

Also, the writers(real) already have avatars working for the Foundation.Why they need another avatar to be the transcendent creator of SCPverse?To make it simple, we can just assume that there is no such transcendent Low-2B author avatar Swann.Swann just stands for the real writers.

 

[LoliPower]

Original Swann does not have the degree of specification to be deemed truly "real people", so it is a bit different. 2747 is mentioned in 3500 IIRC, and is part of the grander scheme. In the original article it is said that everything is changed, the history, alongside the presence/absence of the SCPs themselves. That includes the narrative. But yes, the "true presence" of Swann isn't shown because of what it is supposed to represent. But at the same time you cannot simply do away with everything that it does to effect the fiction that is the SCP-verse, since it is still a verifiable effect that exists and is caused by a "something".

 

[Sir_Ovens]

So what you're trying to say is that there shouldn't be 1-B Swann because the writers are real people and they have 10-B avatars within the SCP Universe.

Well, I mean that is true, but if they are real people in the first place, then fictional avatars should't even exist, as having avatars in of itself is a fictional concept. We treat Swann as a fictional entity because that's what it is, fictional.

The Writer is fictional because there is no way in hell a real dude can go inside a comic book and he is still trancendal over all of DC Comics. Why can't we treat Swann the same way here?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The Writer is fictional because there is no way in hell a real dude can go inside a comic book and he is still trancendal over all of DC Comics. Why can't we treat Swann the same way here?

Original Swann can work like that.

Overmeta Swann doesn't, because it's essentially a giant joke.

 

[Kistern]

Well,The Writer appears in the comic,so he can only be a fictional character.

If someone in a novel realize there is a writer and described him/her,is the writer also fictional?

Here I mean that,you can not prove that Swann is a fictional character because Swann never go "inside" the SCPverse, so why can't Swann be real writers?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

The fact that a fictional character can even allude to a real life person makes that person automatically a fictional character.

Case in point, when Deadpool went outside his comic book and killed his writers.

How are we supposed to treat this? His writers are clearly still alive and kicking, but Deadpool killed them and he is fictional. Simple answer is that the writers are fictional. Same thing applies here. We can't treat Swann as a real person because Swann as an idea is already fictional and can only be treated as such.

 

[Kistern]

That makes no sense.The writer can make their characters know everything,including learning the fact that they are fiction.Fictional characters can't learn about our real world by themselves,but the writers can "have" them do so.

Deadpool kill the writers simply because the real writers think that it's a good idea to have Deadpool kill fake writers.

So you mean anyone mentioned by fictional characters is also fictional?Again,if they meet with a fictional character,they must be fictional.If you can find a article that says Mekhane is fighting with Swann,that Swann is fictional.But mentioning is pretty different.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

The whole concept of a fictional being knowing about a real life being is fictional as that concept cannot play out in the real world. Thus, anything associated with such a thing should also be considered fictional.