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Question for Ash Ketchum's durability

Buttersamuri

Buttersamuri

13,321
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Ok. Into looking at a vs thread for ash. Someone brings up ash being able to tank hits or electricity from Pokémon like when he gets shocked by pikachu, shot by Charizard, Ect Ect. The question is, would we allow Ash to have this scaling in durabilty? Or is it chalked up to PIS or outlier? Cause I think it did happen quite a bit (especially with pikachu). But then again, that just might give him element resistance. Cause we are talking about like MCB-Island- and maybe higher. That's one stupidly high Buff to other feats he shows. What is the opinions of the experts on the Pokémon verse?
 
I mean, humans in Pokemon can consistently take hits from Pokemon. They are all blatant stone walls.
 
Why did you make a second one
 
Here is Ash's Pikachu being bloodlusted and repeatedly attacking Ash and Ash survives. Another occasion where Ash tanks Pikachu's lightning. Ash tanking his Monferno's Flame Wheel. Ash tanking a Shadow Ball from a Trevenent. Ash tanking an explosion made from the clash between a Salamence, his Pikachu, a Blastoise, and a Drapio. Ash tanking a Vine Whip from a Venusaur. Ash tanking a Poison Jab from a Beedrill. Ash tanking a Giga Impact from a Spiritomb. And none of these are during gag scenes.

And obviously Ash is generally weaker than his own Pokémon, but it shouldn't be impossible for him to tank attacks from baby Pokémon when he tanks attacks from Pokémon very consistently.

To make a case for Ash having higher AP, Ash is a greater aura user than Lucario due to being relative in aura to Sir Aaro. This is further show when Ash and Lucario are exerting their aura and Lucario starts fading away from exerting as much as Ash. Ash using aura further in the anime shows it didn't get retconned.

The durability should at least get accepted if not the aura stuff.
 
Well. Seems everyone agrees. So what level should we have Ashes durability bumped to exactly?

As well. His vs threads involving his earlier prior to scaling should be removed or stopped.
 
I'm not even sure if there'd be any doubt, basically everything there is in the current justification for Ash's durability was caused by Pokémon. It's extremely consistent.
 
Eh. There may be a little doubt cause he doesn't get it from anything but Pokémon attacks. But that's just how I suggest. It's not under my control in the end. I'm just here to see if people agree for an upgrade and to what degree
 
It seems more like you're forgetting that humans used to be Pokemon. For example, Kadabra's Emerald, FireRed, and Sun Pokedex entries all talk about how a boy with telepathic powers woke up one day and became a Kadabra. Or how in Gengar's Moon Pokedex entrie talks about how it used to be human itself. One of the biggest pieces of evidence is how in the Sinnoh Legends it talks about how there was a time humans and Pokemon lived with each other and that there was no distinguishable difference between them. This could help explain why humans in the Pokemon world can pull off feats such as surviving attacks from Pokemon.
 
I guess any human in Pokemon that demonstrates the same type of feats Ash seems to pull off. But the main concern here is Ash being downplayed even when there are consistent showings of him tanking attacks from several other Pokemon. To be fair, I get where you're coming from, and probably are just finding this stuff out for the first time. So it makes sense that you were skeptical.
 
We should not be using theories to say that humans used to be Pokemon.

>Kadabra's Entry

This entry has not conclusive evidence for it and is obviously a rumor/folklore. Not to mention that this would prove the reverse. That Pokemon used to be human, not the otherway around eve if true.

>Gengar's Entry

Yeah, it's a ghost pokemon. A ton of Ghost Pokemon like Yamask and Phantump used to be human, but are now Pokemon. Once again, does not prove that humans used to be Pokemon, but that in death, humans can become Pokemon.

-Sinnoh Legends

This does not mean that humans looked like Pokemon. The fact that there is a disquishing between what a human is and a Pokemon is proves this. This simply means that they lived similar lives to each other and that humans we just as wild as the Pokemon. This is in a similar vein to the real world in which the first humans were in truth no different than the other animals around them.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
We should not be using theories to say that humans used to be Pokemon.
>Kadabra's Entry

This entry has not conclusive evidence for it and is obviously a rumor/folklore. Not to mention that this would prove the reverse. That Pokemon used to be human, not the otherway around eve if true.

>Gengar's Entry

Yeah, it's a ghost pokemon. A ton of Ghost Pokemon like Yamask and Phantump used to be human, but are now Pokemon. Once again, does not prove that humans used to be Pokemon, but that in death, humans can become Pokemon.

-Sinnoh Legends

This does not mean that humans looked like Pokemon. The fact that there is a disquishing between what a human is and a Pokemon is proves this. This simply means that they lived similar lives to each other and that humans we just as wild as the Pokemon. This is in a similar vein to the real world in which the first humans were in truth no different than the other animals around them.
Click to expand...
The Pokedex are meant to be taken as fact by the series to learn about the backstories of the Pokemon. Also, when you try to "debunk" the entries, you admit other Pokemon have other entires similar to Gengar. So it would prove to be consistent that Humans often go on to become Pokemon. Saying that because it is apart of the folk lore, doesn't automatically debunk them or directly mean they're wrong. You would have to prove they are incorrect by presenting counter evidence. Which you have presented none, and said I need "conclusive" evidence to prove my claims. So far, I have proven there is a consistentcy within the lore of the verse that Humans used to be incredibly similar to Pokemon at some point in time. But now in modern time, go on to become Pokemon in certain instances.
 
Aren't pokemon 7-A right now? If so that's what he would scale to.

And I agree his durability should be upgraded, it should have been ages ago.
 
"The Pokedex are meant to be taken as fact by the series to learn about the backstories of the Pokemon."

This is false. Not every entry in the Pokedex is fact. Especially when certain Pokemon have contradictions in their entries.

"Also, when you try to "debunk" the entries, you admit other Pokemon have other entires similar to Gengar."

Yeah, but I never whether Gengar's entry was legit or not. I argued that it didn't argue what you thought it did. Even then, it's only via death that this happens.

"So it would prove to be consistent that Humans often go on to become Pokemon. Saying that because it is apart of the folk lore, doesn't automatically debunk them or directly mean they're wrong."

You argued that Humans were once Pokemon. Not that Pokemon were once humans. You should likely reread you claims as you are really misdirecting my points. Not to mention I never mentioned that the likes of Gengar's entry being folklore.

"You would have to prove they are incorrect by presenting counter evidence. Which you have presented none, and said I need "conclusive" evidence to prove my claims"

The very dex entry you reference disproves your Kadabra argument and in fact the series itself has contradictions.

Pokemon Emerald: It is rumored that a boy with psychic abilities suddenly transformed into KADABRA while he was assisting research into extrasensory powers.

Pokemon Firered: It happened one morning - a boy with extrasensory powers awoke in bed transformed into KADABRA.

Pokemon Sun: A theory exists that this Pokémon was a young boy who couldn't control his psychic powers and ended up transformed into this Pokémon.

There is also the fact that pyschics, people with extrasensory powers and psychic abilities are not all Kadabra's in themselves. The fact that one Dex entry states that it is a rumor and another says it is a theory proves my point.

"So far, I have proven there is a consistentcy within the lore of the verse that Humans used to be incredibly similar to Pokemon at some point in time. But now in modern time, go on to become Pokemon in certain instances."

Nothing you have posted proves this. Only thing you have consistently proven is that humans can become Pokemon. One of your examples is labeled as both a rumor and a theory and the others revolve around the human dying. Nothing here even remotely proves Humans were once. Not even the Sinnoh legends as nothing there proves that humans were Pokemon and just that they lived in the wild together. Nothing more. Your "consistent" evidence is sorely lacking if I may be so blunt.
 
I think that the changes should be applied, and for starters, Ash's durability should be 6-C from scaling to Pikachu and others who've shown to be on par with him and on that level, like Salamence, Blastoise, and others, and you could add likely higher with him taking attacks from Zeraora.
 
They once were but have now been downgraded. Ash's profile probably needs a modification for this reason as well.
 
I agree that scaling his durability to pokemon is fine
 
The Aura I think helps solidly back up Ash being able to scale to such durability if he has such powerful aura in him.

As well. The AP could bump up ash with Aura he can be put at the levels of the lucario he showed to be stronger than. So bumping up Ash makes sense I believe too.
 
Bump..there doesn't really seem to be any opposition to this upgrade, can someone just tell me if it's fine to make changes?
 
The changes look unapposed for

1. 7-A durablility

And I believe AP increase to 7-A for his Aura being stronger the Lucario and Physically even attacking him.
 
I don't really agree with Ash scaling to 7-A AP. It's doubtful that Lucario would have been even remotely serious against Ash. I do, however, agree with him having potential AP equivalent to Lucario when using Aura, but it should be noted that Ash has no training with Aura and requires considerable concentration and time to create Aura Spheres. Also, are there special properties to Aaron's gloves? I swear I recall hearing that they refine Aura or something.

Otherwise, I completely agree with 7-A durability for Ash, there is no argument against his consistent ability to survive 7-A Pokemon. The only humans who should scale to this are those that explicitly have similar feats, however. As Ash seems to have a far greater aura than any other human, Aaron being capable of contending with his Lucario and being far more skilled at Aura.

Apologies if this is a necropost, just saw it and thought it was interesting enough to contribute.
 
>Humans scaling to pokemon (third stages, at that): ok.

>Pokemon scaling to legendaries: PIS

My head aches.
 
There are definitely Pokemon that should scale to handling Legendaries (like Articuno, Latios, etc) but I've found people genuinely dismiss it as 'outliers' or 'inconsistent'. Which is annoying but oh well.
 
People like to throw around the "outlier" card whenever something doesnt suit their agenda.

Also for some reason the Team Rocket doesnt scale to this when they have been pummeled by Pokemons time and time again?
 
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