- 39,436
- 15,313
- Thread starter
- #41
Hmm,this discussion suddenly become more active than i thought. 0_0
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Pyra vs The Saltborn
- Thread starter Kisaragi_Megumi
- Start date
- 2,861
- 224
Technically speaking, I never voted Inconclusive to begin with, lol. People just used my reasoning to justify that vote. So, eventually I cast a vote, then figured I was probably missing something or other, and here we are now I guess.
- 39,436
- 15,313
- Thread starter
- #43
Lol,and worst part? i already add this. XD
- 63,522
- 8,487
Then remove it
- 39,436
- 15,313
- Thread starter
- #45
I will,but later,i still busy here.
- 63,522
- 8,487
Bump
- 63,522
- 8,487
Above
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- 224
...alright, I've done a bit of re-reading up on S&S lore, some clarification things regarding The Saltborn/Nameless God as best as I can figure:
> Memory theft seems to be a passive property of the Nameless Island, but an active property of The Saltborn. I.e. speed of thought, not instant/passive.
> Since The Nameless Island is more or less the afterlife for the verse, The Saltborn's ties to that place mean that he would probably show up there upon self-resurrecting.
What this all means, essentially, is that Pyra does in fact have a win condition beyond praying that somehow her reality-warping thingamajig keeps The Saltborn down after death (which there's no proof of as of yet.) Namely, if Pyra/Saltborn are both in the physical world, and Pyra destroys his physical body, then he will most likely reform on The Nameless Island. Though The Saltborn could easily snag and pull Pyra onto the Nameless Island if she were underwater/at the coastline/maybe also inside of mist or fog, it's less certain that he can just show back up in the human world...
Granted, he has the ability to just jump down that well at the end of the game, but even assuming that works there's no guarantee that'll take him to anywhere nearby. So, unless Pyra just so happens to go swimming at the beach following her "victory", then that's probably a victory without air-quotes as far as SBA is concerned at least. (He'd probably eventually show back up for revenge, but that's beyond the scope of this encounter I think)
...which makes it come down to "who gets their hax off first" again. Bleeehhhh.
There's like, maybe a 1 in 10 chance that either one wins if the other gets their hax off first, but all in all... uhh... I guess I switch to Inconclusive. ...which revalidates the entire thread's votes I think?
(Actually, that's a legitimate question- what would Pyra do over the course of 24 hours in Istanbul, in the aftermath of forcibly banishing an angry evil deity back to its home plane? That... matters here.)
(For the record, Saltborn still def. wins if this fight took place on the Nameless Island to begin with, I think, but that's not what's up here.)
> Memory theft seems to be a passive property of the Nameless Island, but an active property of The Saltborn. I.e. speed of thought, not instant/passive.
> Since The Nameless Island is more or less the afterlife for the verse, The Saltborn's ties to that place mean that he would probably show up there upon self-resurrecting.
What this all means, essentially, is that Pyra does in fact have a win condition beyond praying that somehow her reality-warping thingamajig keeps The Saltborn down after death (which there's no proof of as of yet.) Namely, if Pyra/Saltborn are both in the physical world, and Pyra destroys his physical body, then he will most likely reform on The Nameless Island. Though The Saltborn could easily snag and pull Pyra onto the Nameless Island if she were underwater/at the coastline/maybe also inside of mist or fog, it's less certain that he can just show back up in the human world...
Granted, he has the ability to just jump down that well at the end of the game, but even assuming that works there's no guarantee that'll take him to anywhere nearby. So, unless Pyra just so happens to go swimming at the beach following her "victory", then that's probably a victory without air-quotes as far as SBA is concerned at least. (He'd probably eventually show back up for revenge, but that's beyond the scope of this encounter I think)
...which makes it come down to "who gets their hax off first" again. Bleeehhhh.
There's like, maybe a 1 in 10 chance that either one wins if the other gets their hax off first, but all in all... uhh... I guess I switch to Inconclusive. ...which revalidates the entire thread's votes I think?
(Actually, that's a legitimate question- what would Pyra do over the course of 24 hours in Istanbul, in the aftermath of forcibly banishing an angry evil deity back to its home plane? That... matters here.)
(For the record, Saltborn still def. wins if this fight took place on the Nameless Island to begin with, I think, but that's not what's up here.)
- 2,861
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...uhhh...
This is kind of a necro, but why exactly are the Victory Conditions by death only? It was established a fair while ago that Pyra doesn't really have any conclusive way of actually killing The Saltborn in proper, with him being an Undead and all... going by Standard Battle Assumptions, though, she could pull a win simply by killing him the one time, which would result in him popping back up in the Nameless Island rather than Istanbul and probably not getting the chance to do anything in response within the timeframe alloted.
Maybe this had been edited since the thread began, or maybe it was always that way, but if this doesn't end until one party is well and truly dead then Saltborn can just... wait for the eventual chance to pull her into the Nameless Isle, wait for the mindhax to kick in, and wrap things up from there.
This is kind of a necro, but why exactly are the Victory Conditions by death only? It was established a fair while ago that Pyra doesn't really have any conclusive way of actually killing The Saltborn in proper, with him being an Undead and all... going by Standard Battle Assumptions, though, she could pull a win simply by killing him the one time, which would result in him popping back up in the Nameless Island rather than Istanbul and probably not getting the chance to do anything in response within the timeframe alloted.
Maybe this had been edited since the thread began, or maybe it was always that way, but if this doesn't end until one party is well and truly dead then Saltborn can just... wait for the eventual chance to pull her into the Nameless Isle, wait for the mindhax to kick in, and wrap things up from there.
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To be fair, this thread is about to become outdated given that Pyra's most likely going to be upgraded to Low 2-C
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W O A
Something to do with the first Xenoblade's relation to the second in the cosmology?
Something to do with the first Xenoblade's relation to the second in the cosmology?
- 30,420
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Yeah, in more ways than one. I won't close the thread yet till the upgrades go through, but I'm sure it will happen.
- 2,861
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...is it Low 2-C for the entirety of the game, I think? Or are there going to be keys for separate parts of the story? If another form of Pyra's 6-A I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult for OP to just redo the thread with that.
- 30,420
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Nah, just her Pneuma key, but her first 6-A key really doesn't have enough hax to keep up with Saltborn by the looks of it, and would probably end up as a stomp either way; Albeit to a much lesser extent if base Pyra is used and it's a stomp in the opposite direction.
- 39,436
- 15,313
- Thread starter
- #57
Salvation ending Salt vs Base Pyra is still good tbh.
