Put your Grasses on VS. You're gonna have a bad time

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

Battle of two characters that have a very memey catchphrase

Guts VS. Sans

Guts with the Berserker Armor is being used

Speed is equalized

Battle takes place in the hallway where Frisk and Sans fight

Battle Music

 

[SpookyShadow]

I can tell it's not going to have much support lol. Following though.

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

AT LEAST WE CAN TRY

 

[ElixirBlue]

Here, I'll help.

Sans stomps Guts. Guts has no range and no resistance to Soul Manipulation to fight Sans.

 

[SpookyShadow]

How much can he neg dura with soul manip? It can always be changed to 8-A Guts who actually does resist soulhax (hehehe)

Well jokes aside he lost to Deku. What makes it so different?

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

could he like dodge his attacks like frisk did?

 

[ElixirBlue]

"How much can he neg dura" Not sure how you can quantify this.

Sure, change to 8-A Guts

Frisk, the main character, resist Soul Manipulation too and you see how that plays out in gameplay.

So, Sans wouldn't stomp anymore but he would still win, as Frisk wears "armor"(Cloudy Glasses) to increase her/his Soul resistance as if it was natural durability.

 

[SpookyShadow]

"How much can he neg dura" Not sure how you can quantify this.

He literally has "can ignore dura to an extent" on his profile. So I'm just asking, if there's a limit, where does it stop?

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

He literally has "can ignore dura to an extent" on his profile. So I'm just asking, if there's a limit, where does it stop?

I think that's dependent on how much the opponent is evil

 

[Daddybrawl]

I think that's dependent on how much the opponent is evil

Nope. It’s just Soul attacks. He Injures the SOUL when he attacks, and poisons it. This, combined with very large AoE and Danmaku spam means he can slaughter the player if they fail to dodge even one of his attacks, let alone his starting move, which, by admission, is the ‘Strongest move in his arsenal’.
As for how much it negates? Well, not really a limit per se. If their is a more conventional limit, it’s getting Yeeted in the newest CRT anyways.

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

Sure, change to 8-A Guts

Sure mate

So, Sans wouldn't stomp anymore but he would still win, as Frisk wears "armor"(Cloudy Glasses) to increase her/his Soul resistance as if it was natural durability.

Berserker Armor and the Dragonslayer also serve as a resistance to astral attacks so yeah Guts got it covered it

 

[ElixirBlue]

That, and all the monsters have resistance to soul manipulation at some level.

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

he can slaughter the player if they fail to dodge even one of his attacks, let alone his starting move, which, by admission, is the ‘Strongest move in his arsenal’.

But that doesn't happened, even if frisk fails to dodge it can still go on and fight sans

 

[SpookyShadow]

Berserker Armor Guts

Oh well, I think Sans gets crushed lol.

 

[Daddybrawl]

But that doesn't happened, even if frisk fails to dodge it can still go on and fight sans

From the first attack? If you get hit by that thing you either die or are almost dead. And thats with Maximum Armor. Now imagine someone with no experience with Danmaku and the only resistance they have is a type 2 Immortality for their Soul? (I assume no Danmaku experience because it’s not a Danmaku game or something, so I could very well be wrong on that part.)
And weighed down via Blue Mode, can’t forget that.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Sans' Danmaku isn't Touhou tier. And in Berserker Armor he's swift as ****, and also has ranged attacks, like his crossbow and bombs. Sans' stamina is only average, he can't dodge him endlessly.

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

From the first attack? If you get hit by that thing you either die or are almost dead.

So yeah Guts can dodge and danmaku isn't a something that Guts isn't used to

Multiple fights with apostles included Guts blocking attacks from every side
Notable being: Slug Count, Rosine, and Mozgus

and these fights were before he got his berserker armor

 

[ElixirBlue]

Multiple fights with apostles included Guts blocking attacks from every side

Blocking shouldn’t be a factor in this battle, due to the nature of Sans attacks.

 

[Daddybrawl]

Speed’s equal, so being fast doesn’t matter. Blue Mode’s thought-based and will make it harder for Guts to move and/or dodge attacks. Sans leads with slamming you into the ground with Telekinesis, blasting to oblivion with some of the largest Lasers he can conjure, and even before that spamming you with Bones from underneath you.
Sans’ attacks are also Intangible, and not on the ‘Needs to attack the Soul’ way, moreso they just phase through you while still doing damage.

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

Dragonslayer and Berserker armor can effect the physical and astral planes as shown in fight with Ganishka the Dragonslayer can effect beings that are not even tangible in this world and the armor blocks attacks that are astral like the wheel of fire

As an added bonus, Guts was astrally damaged by a God Hand member, literally top of the top in the astral plane who have control over every soul in existence as part of their causality

 

[SpookyShadow]

Speed’s equal, so being fast doesn’t matter.

When did I mention speed? I meant agility. Agility isn't really speed.

Blue Mode’s thought-based and will make it harder for Guts to move and/or dodge attacks. Sans leads with slamming you into the ground with Telekinesis, blasting to oblivion with some of the largest Lasers he can conjure, and even before that spamming you with Bones from underneath you.

Telekinesis against someone with Class 50 lifting strength? Won't work. Also with Guts' agility, he can dodge most if not all the attacks.

Sans’ attacks are also Intangible, and not on the ‘Needs to attack the Soul’ way, moreso they just phase through you while still doing damage.

Well, Dragon Slayer can attack astral beings and could cut through an actual intangible being like Ganishka.

 

[Daddybrawl]

A: Astral Plane seems to be treated as Soul Manip, so I’ll assume its Soul Intangibility. Sans’ attacks aren’t Souls, they’re both 1: Magic 2: Just sort of move through people. It’s not the same as Soul NPI, so we shouldn’t assume it’s affected the same.

B: And? His Resistance is limited- he can still die if his Soul is destroyed, it seems. Sans not only poisons the Soul, but he destroys it as well.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Then how the **** did he lose to Deku... I'd love to see Sans arguments on this match, it would apply also to this match because Guts can do almost everything Deku can. Actually, would love to see the match itself, but the link to it on Sans' profile leads to some all-purpose thread.

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

Well, Dragon Slayer can attack astral beings and could cut through an actual intangible being like Ganishka.

Also the Tidal Wave of Darkness, don't forget it

That thing literally consumes the flesh and souls of it's victims and not only did Guts get out of it alive but without a single scratch and the dragonslayer was pretty much destroying them

A: Astral Plane seems to be treated as Soul Manip, so I’ll assume its Soul Intangibility. Sans’ attacks aren’t Souls, they’re both 1: Magic 2: Just sort of move through people. It’s not the same as Soul NPI, so we shouldn’t assume it’s affected the same.

Well you see, Astral Plane is both world of Souls and Magic (in berserk it's called od)

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

Then how the **** did he lose to Deku... I'd love to see Sans arguments on this match, it would apply also to this match because Guts can do almost everything Deku can. Actually, would love to see the match itself, but the link to it on Sans' profile leads to some all-purpose thread.

Actually i also want to have an explanation to it

 

[Daddybrawl]

They seemed to have ignored the Durability Negation, lack of Danmaku experience and focused on the fact that Deku one-shots. Seems like an outdated match, they even assumed Deku can dodge Danmaku just with acrobatics. Plug it into the search bar if you want to see it.
Honestly comparing him to people he’s lost to just seems like a false equivalence, Guts isn’t Deku and other stuff.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Honestly comparing him to people he’s lost to just seems like a false equivalence, Guts isn’t Deku and other stuff.

I do get it, but Guts in this key can do everything Deku can, especially with stat amping. If he enters Berserker Armor state, it's all over for Sans.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Woah.

Hold up.

I thought a CRT made soul attacks only negate armor and not actual durability?

 

[Daddybrawl]

I thought a CRT made soul attacks only negate armor and not actual durability?

Not sure which one you’re talking about, But sans is unique. He’s the only one who can actually ignore Durability, for now. There’s actually a current CRT to give them back their Durability Negation.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Ah ok. Thanks for clearing it up.

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

So essentially this entire match revolves around if Guts can dodge Sans incoming attacks and danmaku which for some reason cannot be dodged by anyone even the player (which i find ridiculous)

even if Guts takes damage it isn't gonna one shot him, he can still move around evade incoming attacks and i don't think that Guts will do the same mistake

Also if Berserker Armor is released then Sans cannot actually damage the soul of the real Guts but instead he is going to be met with the personification of Guts rage and bloodthirst which is further supported when schrieke tried to contact with Guts astral body

 

[Daddybrawl]

So essentially this entire match revolves around if Guts can dodge Sans incoming attacks and danmaku which for some reason cannot be dodged by anyone even the player (which i find ridiculous)

No one said this- this just sounds like an over exaggeration of the opposing argument to make it look bad. At least the Player has actual Danmaku experience. You said yourself, he has experience blocking attacks, not dodging, and it’ll be difficult to block these attacks. Especially since they’re Magic Soul Lasers, man.

even if Guts takes damage it isn't gonna one shot him, he can still move around evade incoming attacks and i don't think that Guts will do the same mistake

Blue Mode is going to make it hard to evade attacks and the KARMA and massive amounts of damage they’ll add to the pile means that while they won’t one-shot, the damage‘ll add up extremely fast. Sans literally can’t one-shot, not even in the game, but if you get in the middle of his Lasers you’re practically dead.

Also if Berserker Armor is release then Sans cannot actually damage the soul of the real Guts but instead he is going to be met with the personification of Guts rage and bloodthirst which is further supported when schrieke tried to contact with Guts astral body

Scans? This isn’t on the profile, you’d think he’d have a Resistance to Soul Manip because of it.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Scans? This isn’t on the profile, you’d think he’d have a Resistance to Soul Manip because of it.

It's more of a resistance to soul possession, not very relevant

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

No one said this- this just sounds like an over exaggeration of the opposing argument to make it look bad. At least the Player has actual Danmaku experience. You said yourself, he has experience blocking attacks, not dodging, and it’ll be difficult to block these attacks. Especially since they’re Magic Soul Lasers, man.

And you're making it like Guts is gonna get slashed like paper and stand still while blocking even tho in Guts intelligence section it's mentioned that Guts is a problem solver in fights and he isn't gonna stand there and is very well capable of dodging and even adapting towards fights (and i brought up the blocking part because Guts can block astral attacks but for some reason it doesn't add up to Sans attacks)

Blue Mode is going to make it hard to evade attacks and the KARMA and massive amounts of damage they’ll add to the pile means that while they won’t one-shot, the damage‘ll add up extremely fast. Sans literally can’t one-shot, not even in the game, but if you get in the middle of his Lasers you’re practically dead.

This is the problem, you're saying that Guts is a damage sponge which is not the case. Actually frisk or the player aren't even known acrobats which adds to point that Guts will fare better at actually evading attacks of Sans than frisk would

Scans? This isn’t on the profile, you’d think he’d have a Resistance to Soul Manip because of it.

While spooky did bring that it more so goes resistance for Soul possession it still is like an outer layer of Guts soul which more so fueled by emotion and it's projected on the astral plane

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

Bump

 

[ShionAH]

Sans FRA via Crazy danmuku and ignoring durability