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Psychokinesis versus Magic! Hero vs Idol! Athena vs Shantae!
- Thread starter AquaWaifu
- Start date
Tonygameman
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When looking at Athena's abilities, her abilities are very similar to what Shantae has. Attack reflection is something they both have. Though in this case, Shantae's pike balls will be useless so Athena can fight up close. Both can heal as well. I'll give it to Shantae mid to high difficulty. Both seem really good at countering each other, but explosions aren't really a projectile so Shantae can always use that to harm Athena, which will be difficult to dodge due to it being AoE, and with Vanishing Cream to phase through Athena's shield.
This is a really good match, I like it.
This is a really good match, I like it.
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ApiesDeathbyLazors
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I'd like to hear from someone knowledgeable on KOF before voting. Anyone know someone like that?
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I'm not sure, does the KOF page have anyone?
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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I'll message them in a bit to get their opinions on this. Or you can do it.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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You can do it, I'm off to bed.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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ApiesDeathbyLazors
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ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Two down, three to go. Bump
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ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Were any KOF supporters ever messaged?
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Nope.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Not too sure on who wins here. Shantae has intangibility to pass through Athena's attacks, while Athena has teleportation to easily get out of range and snipe Shantae, although she has attack reflection. Their AP is pretty equal too.
If it comes down to it i think Athena wins by a very small margin. She should be more skilled, as a experienced KoF fighter, and telekinesis gives her a slight advantage over Shantae.
If it comes down to it i think Athena wins by a very small margin. She should be more skilled, as a experienced KoF fighter, and telekinesis gives her a slight advantage over Shantae.
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I mean to be fair, Shantae has teleportation too. Shantae has self healing and AoE explosions.
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Is it fast or anything? Because Athena's is pretty quick. Should also note that Athena has both self healing and AoE explosions as well.
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Yeah, it takes a second to activate. Shantae's Super Revive Dance fully heals herself, so not sure for Athena. Shantae can always keep her bubble up. Eventually Shantae is gonna use Vanish Cream to phase through Athena.
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Athena has a large difference in skill and that in KoF explosions counts as projectiles, so yeah reflectors are going to be really helpful at maintaining range. Also some of her stronger moves are really fast even by foes with similar speeds and has a really high range of AoE.
Shantae's Super Revive Dance is still going to be like a taunt move in terms of speed, something very similar to Kensou's eating move that does in battle to restore at full which is Athena's training and teammate. Shantae only really advantage is her intagibility which she must do at the start of battle and she will need to both react and outskill her opponent, something that is really doubtful due the large difference in skill and Experience. Voting for Athena.
Shantae's Super Revive Dance is still going to be like a taunt move in terms of speed, something very similar to Kensou's eating move that does in battle to restore at full which is Athena's training and teammate. Shantae only really advantage is her intagibility which she must do at the start of battle and she will need to both react and outskill her opponent, something that is really doubtful due the large difference in skill and Experience. Voting for Athena.
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Can I see what kind of explosions? Because Shantae's are the equivalent of a bomb that's during an explosion, if that makes any sense. Speed is equalized, this includes attacks. Shantae's already had experience in dodging a large amount of projectiles with little room to avoid them in. Is the skill difference that large? Shantae has already been on adventures even before her first game took place. She's been at it against Risky Boots and many other foes for a while. For what we know right now, Shantae has been on over different 7 adventures (not counting sub-plots) with another game coming out this year. So Shantae isn't as inexperienced as people claim. If they're projectiles, Shantae reflects them with bubble or can even just bypass them via invulnerability.
I forgot to bring this up (because I haven't checked out much gameplay), but in Seven Sirens, Shantae is capable of transforming into her animal forms without the need to dance. This should include all of her other belly dance abilities, meaning she can use these moves thought-based. I mean even if Shantae had to dance, she's already used to using these during combat and it's very quick too. She's going to be shielded with bubble and scimitars surrounding her body. Why does Shantae need intangiblity at the start? Athena's isn't going to insta-kill Shantae. Especially since Athena's ap is only 5 megatons, while Shantae's is 6 megatons.
I forgot to bring this up (because I haven't checked out much gameplay), but in Seven Sirens, Shantae is capable of transforming into her animal forms without the need to dance. This should include all of her other belly dance abilities, meaning she can use these moves thought-based. I mean even if Shantae had to dance, she's already used to using these during combat and it's very quick too. She's going to be shielded with bubble and scimitars surrounding her body. Why does Shantae need intangiblity at the start? Athena's isn't going to insta-kill Shantae. Especially since Athena's ap is only 5 megatons, while Shantae's is 6 megatons.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Just gonna say, again, we really shouldn't use anything from Seven Sirens until the games is actually out.
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Half of the game is already out on Stadia.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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If you really want to use Seven Sirens, which is really not finished and can change Shantae even in category, maybe is going to be better to close the thread due the fact that is part of something not finished and may be subject to change in a future.
And then again, you're taking 7 different adventures and she's one of the most consistent participant in KoF, 10 at least for her without counting Dream Matches and canonical events outside the core KoF tournaments. Isn't that Shantae is inexperienced, is just that Athena and the KoF verse is full of experimented characters in terms of battle experience, training and many different of strategist for fighters. And in skill, Psycho Powers requires both high amount of skill and this is the mindset that Chin trains them, this is the bare minimum for them as KoF has a lot of upscale in that category, with a lot of training in their respective verse and many bosses that could normally overpowered the characters in question.
Also, did I said that Athena's one-shot? The reason I said that is actually due how hard some attacks can be dodge after one punch is connected. This is how the combat is really described in SNK as a whole, again maintaining a distance between fighters is in no one benefit due how both of them has ways to keep themselves in a save spot or getting close into their opponents instead, which makes a close range combat really frequent in this particular match at least, which Athena is in a really good spot compared to her.
And about, Shantae's nuking attack, I'm guessing that's Obliterate which is comparable in size and area to the machines Bao and Takuma reflected, Takuma did this unharmed and with his bare hands which might be iffy to compared, but Bao which did this used a lot of energy and it was because of Kensou help that he could survive and is still even far weaker than the likes of his teammates in both strength and skill (Kensou, Athena, Chin). Still remaining my vote.
And then again, you're taking 7 different adventures and she's one of the most consistent participant in KoF, 10 at least for her without counting Dream Matches and canonical events outside the core KoF tournaments. Isn't that Shantae is inexperienced, is just that Athena and the KoF verse is full of experimented characters in terms of battle experience, training and many different of strategist for fighters. And in skill, Psycho Powers requires both high amount of skill and this is the mindset that Chin trains them, this is the bare minimum for them as KoF has a lot of upscale in that category, with a lot of training in their respective verse and many bosses that could normally overpowered the characters in question.
Also, did I said that Athena's one-shot? The reason I said that is actually due how hard some attacks can be dodge after one punch is connected. This is how the combat is really described in SNK as a whole, again maintaining a distance between fighters is in no one benefit due how both of them has ways to keep themselves in a save spot or getting close into their opponents instead, which makes a close range combat really frequent in this particular match at least, which Athena is in a really good spot compared to her.
And about, Shantae's nuking attack, I'm guessing that's Obliterate which is comparable in size and area to the machines Bao and Takuma reflected, Takuma did this unharmed and with his bare hands which might be iffy to compared, but Bao which did this used a lot of energy and it was because of Kensou help that he could survive and is still even far weaker than the likes of his teammates in both strength and skill (Kensou, Athena, Chin). Still remaining my vote.
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I see no reason why we should hold off the match. If Shantae gets something new that makes this a stomp later on, then we can simply remove the match.
I get that Athena is more experienced, but it's not like she just completely outclasses Shantae. Isn't KoF just a large tournament match? Which mostly involves just 1v1 fights? Because I'm not sure if that's exactly comparable to Shantae having to travel island to island, dungeon to dungeon, etc in facing off a variety of opponents. I mean due to the amount of new places Shantae goes to, I think this might be comparable to tournaments. Shantae has already fought characters with tons of experience, such as the Pirate Master and the genies who are considered the top tiers of Shantae's verse. She's even had to go through an entire adventure without having any of her magic at all, which is what her main power source comes from, as well as defeat Nega Shantae (a clone) who took all of Shantae's own powers. Shantae's already skilled in weaponry such as guns, cannons, scimitars, kitanas, and ninja shuriken with little to no practice.. She's also pretty good in hand to hand combat and has been training with Bolo. And is very skilled with her magic as well.
This just sounds like...combos. If Athena prefers to be an upclose fighter, that's an issue. Shantae can easily keep a swarm of scimitars that surround her body. If she gets too close, she will be stabbed. In the case Shantae gets caught in a combo, she can casually just teleport away.
I mean Obliterate is one of Shantae's more stringer moves. Shantae does have a minor ap advantage (A 1.2 times advantage), add that with statistic amplifications in which Twin Mints and Super Monster Milk can both double her strength.
I get that Athena is more experienced, but it's not like she just completely outclasses Shantae. Isn't KoF just a large tournament match? Which mostly involves just 1v1 fights? Because I'm not sure if that's exactly comparable to Shantae having to travel island to island, dungeon to dungeon, etc in facing off a variety of opponents. I mean due to the amount of new places Shantae goes to, I think this might be comparable to tournaments. Shantae has already fought characters with tons of experience, such as the Pirate Master and the genies who are considered the top tiers of Shantae's verse. She's even had to go through an entire adventure without having any of her magic at all, which is what her main power source comes from, as well as defeat Nega Shantae (a clone) who took all of Shantae's own powers. Shantae's already skilled in weaponry such as guns, cannons, scimitars, kitanas, and ninja shuriken with little to no practice.. She's also pretty good in hand to hand combat and has been training with Bolo. And is very skilled with her magic as well.
This just sounds like...combos. If Athena prefers to be an upclose fighter, that's an issue. Shantae can easily keep a swarm of scimitars that surround her body. If she gets too close, she will be stabbed. In the case Shantae gets caught in a combo, she can casually just teleport away.
I mean Obliterate is one of Shantae's more stringer moves. Shantae does have a minor ap advantage (A 1.2 times advantage), add that with statistic amplifications in which Twin Mints and Super Monster Milk can both double her strength.
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"I see no reason why we should hold off the match. If Shantae gets something new that makes this a stomp later on, then we can simply remove the match."
About that, this doesn't invalidated my point about the fact that is going to be better to wait until the game is finished as there so many examples about upgrades that can be made but aren't until the game is done, some due especulation, due future changes about something or due the changes of a actualization weren't really made or complete with the disclaimer about making battles about this particular character. It would be better to revisit this match up after that particular game is completed, or make a rematch with the new upgrades regardless of the outcome if it gets completed.
"Isn't KoF just a large tournament match? Which mostly involves just 1v1 fights? Because I'm not sure if that's exactly comparable to Shantae having to travel island to island, dungeon to dungeon, etc in facing off a variety of opponents. I mean due to the amount of new places Shantae goes to, I think this might be comparable to tournaments."
As a short answer, KoF is more than just a large tournament. Almost every single KoF tournament involves several man behind the tournament that tries to plot shady things that involves empowerement forms, resurrection of a god, corruption of blood that makes more fearsome characters, clonations of the strongest man in the tournament several times, resurrection of several souls, creation of killing-machines just to mantain the clones in check, dungeons, espionage, travel to different places in the worlds, stopping catastrophes and attemps to destroy the contestents, saving the earth from a space-time from a threat, and while this isn't KoF perse, the search of the perfect wife (yep, that's SNK Heroines, and this is canon). While you can argue that Athena and her group isn't involved in all things mentioned, in the things she was involved as a part of canon (which are 9/13 as far as I mentioned) is pretty much way more experience than just a large tournament. The only tournament that could be considered "just a large tournament" was the one that happen in KoF XIV. And skill-wise...
The KoF verse is easily a very skilled verse in terms of hand to hand combat while isn't far away in skill. This is really notable in many characters as the Psycho Soldiers really need, considering how unstable is going to be the Psycho Powers without trainning as characters such as Momoko and Bao can't use their Psycho Powers very well in comparasion to Athena and Kensou, that have a very limited ammount of experience and lack of ammounts of psycho powers or Bao, that nearly got himself killed after performing his beam reflector feat if Kensou didn't decide to save him and that share the same source of power (the Dragon Spirit) and currently doesn't participate in any tournament due his training is not completed. And even in Kensou and Athena, Athena is far better in terms of dominating the Psycho Powers than Kensou in that regard due her larger practice and application about the powers in question. In terms on hand to hand combat, she just has way more experience and skill with Chin than Shantae with Bolo, and in terms of weaponary, she faced lots of fighters that are adepts in terms of weaponary.
"This just sounds like...combos. If Athena prefers to be an upclose fighter, that's an issue. Shantae can easily keep a swarm of scimitars that surround her body. If she gets too close, she will be stabbed. In the case Shantae gets caught in a combo, she can casually just teleport away."
In terms of teleportation and keeping a distance, well... Athena can teleport other people too, not just herself and also can approach Shantae's with her reflector which can also harm the opponent without her to getting close. And about fighting people that can use teleportation, that skill is more frequent on KoF fighters and is nothing new and she can even catch up the teleportation of her opponents. Bao is a good example due both are teammates and he can use teleportation, and is not exclusive to Psycho Soldiers due characters like Chizuru Kagura and Ash posses this powers.
About AP, that's an advantage that Shantae has and no one is going to deny it, yet the gap is very close even with her statistic amplifications. However, I still feel comfortable saying that Athena can win more often.
About that, this doesn't invalidated my point about the fact that is going to be better to wait until the game is finished as there so many examples about upgrades that can be made but aren't until the game is done, some due especulation, due future changes about something or due the changes of a actualization weren't really made or complete with the disclaimer about making battles about this particular character. It would be better to revisit this match up after that particular game is completed, or make a rematch with the new upgrades regardless of the outcome if it gets completed.
"Isn't KoF just a large tournament match? Which mostly involves just 1v1 fights? Because I'm not sure if that's exactly comparable to Shantae having to travel island to island, dungeon to dungeon, etc in facing off a variety of opponents. I mean due to the amount of new places Shantae goes to, I think this might be comparable to tournaments."
As a short answer, KoF is more than just a large tournament. Almost every single KoF tournament involves several man behind the tournament that tries to plot shady things that involves empowerement forms, resurrection of a god, corruption of blood that makes more fearsome characters, clonations of the strongest man in the tournament several times, resurrection of several souls, creation of killing-machines just to mantain the clones in check, dungeons, espionage, travel to different places in the worlds, stopping catastrophes and attemps to destroy the contestents, saving the earth from a space-time from a threat, and while this isn't KoF perse, the search of the perfect wife (yep, that's SNK Heroines, and this is canon). While you can argue that Athena and her group isn't involved in all things mentioned, in the things she was involved as a part of canon (which are 9/13 as far as I mentioned) is pretty much way more experience than just a large tournament. The only tournament that could be considered "just a large tournament" was the one that happen in KoF XIV. And skill-wise...
The KoF verse is easily a very skilled verse in terms of hand to hand combat while isn't far away in skill. This is really notable in many characters as the Psycho Soldiers really need, considering how unstable is going to be the Psycho Powers without trainning as characters such as Momoko and Bao can't use their Psycho Powers very well in comparasion to Athena and Kensou, that have a very limited ammount of experience and lack of ammounts of psycho powers or Bao, that nearly got himself killed after performing his beam reflector feat if Kensou didn't decide to save him and that share the same source of power (the Dragon Spirit) and currently doesn't participate in any tournament due his training is not completed. And even in Kensou and Athena, Athena is far better in terms of dominating the Psycho Powers than Kensou in that regard due her larger practice and application about the powers in question. In terms on hand to hand combat, she just has way more experience and skill with Chin than Shantae with Bolo, and in terms of weaponary, she faced lots of fighters that are adepts in terms of weaponary.
"This just sounds like...combos. If Athena prefers to be an upclose fighter, that's an issue. Shantae can easily keep a swarm of scimitars that surround her body. If she gets too close, she will be stabbed. In the case Shantae gets caught in a combo, she can casually just teleport away."
In terms of teleportation and keeping a distance, well... Athena can teleport other people too, not just herself and also can approach Shantae's with her reflector which can also harm the opponent without her to getting close. And about fighting people that can use teleportation, that skill is more frequent on KoF fighters and is nothing new and she can even catch up the teleportation of her opponents. Bao is a good example due both are teammates and he can use teleportation, and is not exclusive to Psycho Soldiers due characters like Chizuru Kagura and Ash posses this powers.
About AP, that's an advantage that Shantae has and no one is going to deny it, yet the gap is very close even with her statistic amplifications. However, I still feel comfortable saying that Athena can win more often.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Ah, do we got any votes yet?
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Oh look, I got some notifications. Let's see the-
>All from Apies
I would a reply, but overall Athena isn't going to be able to physically attack Shantae since she has a forcefield and scimitars. I don't see Athena finishing off Shantae at all, even if she gets combo'd. She isn't going to know if she has teleportation. And dealing against people with teleportation varies, this is only good if she can predict where her enemy will even go. Shantae uses bubble, summons scimitars, Athena can't do squat. Shantae realizes she can't go through her forcefield, intangibility GG.
>All from Apies
I would a reply, but overall Athena isn't going to be able to physically attack Shantae since she has a forcefield and scimitars. I don't see Athena finishing off Shantae at all, even if she gets combo'd. She isn't going to know if she has teleportation. And dealing against people with teleportation varies, this is only good if she can predict where her enemy will even go. Shantae uses bubble, summons scimitars, Athena can't do squat. Shantae realizes she can't go through her forcefield, intangibility GG.
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Well, that's an argument, but I have to heavily disagree considering considering KOF Canon and my previous post.DatOneWeeb said:
Forcefield isn't really going to safe you against Psycho Powers and any of the stronger variants, especially since Psycho Ball and Psycho Barrier are able to break through barriers of amps enemies and depowered in that instance, and only being reflected via gameplay mechanics and scimitars were discussed previously due the fact that Barrier works as an defensive and offensive tool that would protect her from contact.
About combos, which is actually not a gameplay, but also part from lore, this moves can get Amp due desperation status which improves the character damage, stronger attacks and higher reactions in terms of attack, in contrast to the stats Amp of Shantae which doesn't impact much the AP department, compared to damage and a an increase of moves performance overall, and Athena doesn't even struggle to take down enemies with higher AP strength overall with very few exceptions who can match her in skill, something that Shantae pales in comparison.
In teleportation this is another repeat, she trained regularly with characters with the same technique and faced seriously against fighters that use teleportation regularly, and about predictions, this could be logic if we assume Athena doesn't have the skill, intelligence and experience against this kind of users, something that she can do very well. Skill wise she is the most of skilled fighter of Chin's student, a master renowned for his amazing skill despite his looks and one of the most skilled fighters of the series, with a power that requires a lot to practice just to work properly and intelligent enough to make use of Psycho Powers on very higher regard and fought regularly with characters with that kind of power.
The point about Athena can't do squat is simply ignoring all her large variety of abilities she can do and also appealing with fallacies in versus debate due ignoring many of the crucial ways Athena can counter many of the options regarding characteristics of the abilities.
Again, the only points Shantae has in her favor are intangibility and AP, which the first one isn't a win button by any means and is very limited on time, more on the akin of Athena's telekinesis which is a very good tool yet not a win condition, and AP which is not high enough and can be countered via many methods mentioned above. Athena has the speed, technique, skills, experience, especially with characters similar to her opponent in powers, can counter many of her options in terms hax and attack potency and overall has a better advantage in terms of close battle, which is a way more likely scenario than a range battle due her psycho powers.
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PuasLuisZX said:
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