Prototype Downgrades

[Sir_sun_man]

eh im working on a crt that will most likely bump the charaters into tier 8 but i'll post it after this blows over there are a few feats in p2 that would put heller anywhere between 8C to 8B depending on how we treat them

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

How bout at least 8-C low 7-B devastators?

 

[ByAsura]

Seems ok to me.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

How bout at least 8-C low 7-B devastators?

So what does everyone else think about this for their last key?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Wait for Dargoo's response.

I side with him right now personally.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Bump.

 

[The_Real_Eugene_Sims]

I have the direct feat of Alex destroying a military base with his Devastator if anyone wants to calculate it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd8wajrxzic

 

[Sir_sun_man]

there is also this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ-Upr3yi48

5:05

the explosion is pretty massive might wana calc it

 

[ByAsura]

Something for future reference: Hives differ greatly from gameplay, as they are much stronger than standard buildings.

@Eugene The military base is already damaged in that shot. I've played the game, and even with every upgrade it still takes multiple hits for any musclemass-enhanced devastator to destroy a military base.

@Sir sun man Dargoo has some contention with that feat. I don't agree with him, personally.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

also there is a tiny fact that heller is capable of destroying lairs which are quite massive

 

[ByAsura]

I mentioned that before, and I don't think it'll amount to anything (physically). Definitely scales to his devastator.

Their devastators should be way higher. It's explicitly a release of biomass and has feats way beyond their normal showings, such as destroying lairs and covering the entirety of Manhatta.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

what about the fact that they scale to being supirior to beings such as the goliaths who are capable of wistanding a direct hit from said devestators

or the supreme hunter being able to use a devestator on mercer with mercer being able to wistand its direct impact

 

[ByAsura]

Devastators also have feats far above either of the characters, such as one-shotting enemies that require an extended battle to kill.

Goliaths and the Supreme Hunter both grossly outclass Heller and Mercer during gameplay. Also, the fact that they can withstand it is also gameplay mechanics. Similarly, Heller one-shot an Alpha Juggernaut in a cutscene, yet he takes forever to kill one during gameplay.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Devastators also have feats far above either of the characters, such as one-shotting enemies that require an extended battle to kill.
Goliaths and the Supreme Hunter both grossly outclass Heller and Mercer during gameplay.

and yet we they are capable of beating the two to death in an extended battle without the use of devestators

im not saying the devestators are equal to their attack potency no but they are at least some what comperable

plus they are capable of surviving being hit by a devestator without relaying on Regenerationn as seen in mercer vs supreme hunter at the end of the game( i also wouldn't say that either really grossly outclasses heller or mercer since mercer and heller are capable of beating them down by themselves)

 

[ByAsura]

After a long time by using his environment. Do you think Mercer is even somewhat comparable to Mother (Greene)? He defeated her, yet she is massively stronger.

He does grossly outclass Mercer. Even with armour and musclemass, the Supreme Hunter can completely pin Mercer with a stomp, vertically impale him with spikes and one-shot him with a Critical Pain devastator on any difficulty setting.

You missed the gameplay argument. Plus, they both have tons of anti-feats to place both of them as far weaker than anything their devastators have accomplished.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

After a long time by using his environment. Do you think Mercer is even somewhat comparable to Mother (Greene)?
He does grossly outclass Mercer. Even with armour and musclemass, the Supreme Hunter can completely pin Mercer with a stomp, vertically impale him with spikes and one-shot him with a Critical Pain devastator on any difficulty setting.

You missed the gameplay argument.

not nessesrily mercer can beat the supreme hunter in a fight without the use on the enviorment around him although that would more so be skill then direct AP but thats not quite the point

my point is that mercer is capable of not only harming the hunter with his normal attacks but is also capable of outright killing him with them as seen when he decapetated him in the end of the game

and while yes mercer(in P1) is clearing weaker (physicly) the the supereme hunter he is still some what comperable to it

also critical pain deastator is a beast of its own that we will talk about a bit latter

also no i don't think mercer in P1 is even comperable to the mother boss he is clearly outclassed when a simple scream can bring him near death

 

[ByAsura]

I'm going to link this argument again.

Also, the fact that they can withstand it is also gameplay mechanics. Similarly, Heller one-shot an Alpha Juggernaut in a cutscene, yet he takes forever to kill one during gameplay.

 

[The_Real_Eugene_Sims]

There's another possible calc for Prototype 1 & 2.

If it's applicable, there might be a yield for kinetic energy generated by Alex and Heller by running. Obviously no calc-stacking speed like using the tank-shell dodging speed, though Alex can outrun Apache helicopters which can reach ~200 mph.

There's also the issue of finding Alex/Heller's mass, since it's stated and proven that his body density is extremely high and that he adds the mass of every being he consumes to himself.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

well that seems a bit like a cop out but what ever we'll talk about it more in depth on the future crt that will talk about all the feats that should be around 8C(like mercer wistanding an air strike)

but anyhow what ap would the devestators be? since the lairs are clearly anywhere between high 8C to 8B in size

plus that final devestator at the end of the game

 

[ByAsura]

In game, Heller can also damage a heavily reinforced thermobaric base during operation firewatch with his heavier attacks.

@Eugene Alex is 86 kg, assuming he runs at Mach 4.6 gets 0.0255847208 Tons of TNT (Small Building level), 200 mph gets Wall level. Idk how heavy he'd be after transforming, though he very clearly is quite heavy. He adds their biomass, but I don't think it's ever stated he can grow even heavier after absorbing more people.

@Sun I don't think it is considering that all forms have feats so far above Heller and Mercer. I'm not sure, probably much higher.

 

[Lightbuster30]

A: Uh, I thought kinetic energy via running wasn't allowed?

B: Why would we scale his reaction speed to his running speed?

 

[ByAsura]

Is it? I also disagree with the speed in Prototype, and I'll compile some feats soon.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

There's another possible calc for Prototype 1 & 2.
If it's applicable, there might be a yield for kinetic energy generated by Alex and Heller by running. Obviously no calc-stacking speed like using the tank-shell dodging speed, though Alex can outrun Apache helicopters which can reach ~200 mph.

There's also the issue of finding Alex/Heller's mass, since it's stated and proven that his body density is extremely high and that he adds the mass of every being he consumes to himself.

well in p1 we have the fact that he killed 1k people and we can get the avrage weight for a person in NYC which is 88,31 kg so mercer would be in around 88 tons in weight by the end of the game

or if the amount of people he killed is too ambiguse we can use the web of intrigue to gage how many he consumed

1st part of the web has 8 people

2nd part has 11 people

3rd part has 20 people

4th part has 18

5th part has 23

6th part has 24 (2 of these are leader hunters who should be at least 3 tons in weight via being twice as big as regular hunters who can pancake an acp after falling 30 stories)

7th part has 15

8th part has 10

9th part has 2(mother and the general)

mercer consumes a total of 119 people and two leader hunters

the people(ageing an avrage) should weigh around 88 kg which would put consuming them at 10.4 tons we add the two leader hunters and thats 16.4 tons

there is also another hunter mercer consumes to cure the peresite so we'll add an extra ton on top of it all

so thats at least 17.4 tons if we low ball the weight of hunters who can push m1 abrams like toys

 

[ByAsura]

He claims to have killed 1,000 by the end of the game.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

He claims to have killed 1,000 by the end of the game.

yeah but its ambiguse on how he killed them the "when i close my eyes i see a thousand man screaming as i claim their lives" line can be interpreted in many ways one is he consumed them and their memories are litreally screaming at him as he takes their lives or he could've just killed them thats why i use the more concrite and said in stone web of intrigue

 

[ByAsura]

He says the memories of a thousand dead men screaming. Mercer's talking about all of the memories he's gained from the people he absorbed.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

actually i just rewatched it and he says i see the memory of a thousand dead men

so yeah mercer should be around 88 tons in weight(pior to being turned to paste by the nuke) if not a bit more via the hunters he ate so he would be around 95.5 tons

 

[Sir_sun_man]

this would also put mercer around class k due to the fact that he can move

 

[ByAsura]

I honestly don't think he's that dense. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense in-game and the idea seems to come from "he must gain the mass of everyone he absorbs."

 

[Sir_sun_man]

well that mass can't just vanish can it now?

but even if mercer is not that dense in p1 (because lets be honest in p2 looking at the final cutsean he wieght way more then 95 tons) he still should be at least over 10 tons due to the fact that he is capable of creating shock waves and crators after falling a great distance and also is able to pancake cars after a 10 feet drop

 

[ByAsura]

It can, he incorporates them into his being. This is fiction, not reality.

I suppose, but even Brawlers can pancake cars.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

they do by jumping off of them mercer can pancake them from a slight drop

 

[Sir_sun_man]

there is also the fact that mercer can stop trucks moving at max speed by just standing in their way

 

[ByAsura]

@Sir sun man Ok.

@Lightbuster Here's some running speed feats.

• Bambu already calced one I requested in the past, where Mercer disappears completely and ends up on the ground moments later. This is also repeated against Cross.
• Mercer blitzes an entire security team in seconds.
• End-game Mercer appears out of nowhere, with the Blackwatch soldiers being completely unaware of his presence. While he has amazing stealth skills, it'd still require some level of superhuman speed.

Roland also makes a "sonic-boom", but I really doubt that's actually a sonic boom.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

what about the fact that heller when he gets his sheilds is capable of recosheing a rocket(or a tank shell form a modified m1) back to where it was fired from and this can only be achived via bringing up the sheild the instant a rocket is about to hit you

 

[ByAsura]

That type of rocket isn't exactly fast, IIRC, only in the Transonic range. It'd no doubt scale to reactions as well.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

he can also recoshe a tank shell from an m1

 

[ByAsura]

True (idk why I forgot that, it's one of the main reasons I loved Prototype 2), but it'd probably scale to reactions, like I mentioned before. Unless that sonic boom feat actually holds weight.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

well they should be transonic(capable of outrunning choppers) movement speed and supersonic+ reaction/combat speed aswell as supersonic+ in short bursts since they are cabaple of moving a bit faster then a m1 shell via by dashing

 

[DeathNoodles]

Mercer evading every single bullet from a machine gunfire that tore apart people and objects in an office room from the Prototype comics should be a solid Supersonic+ reaction and combat feat from what I can see.