- 22,043
- 18,127
He didn't, they just couldn't hit him.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Prototype Downgrades
- Thread starter Dargoo_Faust
- Start date
- 3,289
- 2,656
eh mercer should at the very least scale to early game heller who is capable of recosheing tank shells with his sheilds which is a better reaction and combat feat anyway
- 2,392
- 318
For the second scan, it literally hit everything else in the room but him (people got riddled with holes, objects got shot, etc.). If he was literally the only thing that didn't get hit when everything else did, we can't just handwave it off as a non-speed related (aim-dodging multiple of these bullets fired at once rather than just one, and somehow not getting hit by even a single one of them just from assuming he predicted the bullets for "aim-dodging", sounds like a bit of a stretch).ByAsura said:
- 2,392
- 318
It didn't prevent them from trying to shoot him anyways, which they attempted to do so several times despite it. We can't just handwave every single failed attempt to hit him with bullets as "aim-dodging" or "PIS".ByAsura said:
- 22,043
- 18,127
It is, though, you can clearly see the bullets hit around him, not at him, or just don't get near him.
- 2,392
- 318
There were also flashes of bullets behind him at the window from what it appears as well (which implies it was also meant to be aimed toward him), but I digress.
These don't really seem to disprove my points of Supersonic+ Reaction Speed and Combat Speed though. There are literally characters in fiction who has showcased moving their body parts or react to objects at speeds faster than they can run at, so it's not like Movement Speed is the absolute requirement for a character's entire speed.
These don't really seem to disprove my points of Supersonic+ Reaction Speed and Combat Speed though. There are literally characters in fiction who has showcased moving their body parts or react to objects at speeds faster than they can run at, so it's not like Movement Speed is the absolute requirement for a character's entire speed.
- 2,392
- 318
@ByAsura
Aim dodging every single one of those bullets (not just one, but several of them) by arranging one's body parts in a way to avoid them before the bullets were fired and avoiding every single one of them hitting you because you managed to predict the course of every single one of the bullets' paths sounds like a bit of a stretch, especially given that wasn't the only gunfire Mercer has evaded in the Prototype comics. Eh, we can just agree to disagree with this point anyways and move on.
Also, Resistance to Biological Manipulation really needs to get added back to Mercer's profile.
Aim dodging every single one of those bullets (not just one, but several of them) by arranging one's body parts in a way to avoid them before the bullets were fired and avoiding every single one of them hitting you because you managed to predict the course of every single one of the bullets' paths sounds like a bit of a stretch, especially given that wasn't the only gunfire Mercer has evaded in the Prototype comics. Eh, we can just agree to disagree with this point anyways and move on.
Also, Resistance to Biological Manipulation really needs to get added back to Mercer's profile.
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 18,836
- 7,458
You know, I just realized something. If Blacklight works on the Molecular Level, wouldn't that apply to his Regen or am I missing something?
- 2,392
- 318
Alex Mercer's profile once had High Regenerationn because of that logic in the past. There was then a CRT that debunked it, so the Regenerationn rating is what it is now.XSOULOFCINDERX said:
- 22,043
- 18,127
@XSOUL He can shapeshift on the molecular level. UMR just took the word "rebuild" out of context (from what I remember) and said controling whitelight on the molecular level should give Mercer high regen because other profiles have the same logic.
There's also some other stuff that's out of context. For example, that "on-the-fly" transformation stuff refers to his ability to manipulate his body any time he wants, not creating new powers.
There's also some other stuff that's out of context. For example, that "on-the-fly" transformation stuff refers to his ability to manipulate his body any time he wants, not creating new powers.
- 2,618
- 165
A bit hesitant on the supersonic feat since it could be aim dodging or running away from the helicopter, and it's not like if Alex gets shot bullet wounds would appear most of the time. But I can see it being a possibility.
Resistance to biological manipulation is needed in his profile.
The Regenerationn thing being High I don't agree with. If Alex had that he wouldn't have suffered from most of his demise feats. It might be for the virus itself only and not combat applicable too. Which would be weird.
And on the fly transformation sounds about right. Better to correct any wrong thing about that no the profile if so.
Resistance to biological manipulation is needed in his profile.
The Regenerationn thing being High I don't agree with. If Alex had that he wouldn't have suffered from most of his demise feats. It might be for the virus itself only and not combat applicable too. Which would be weird.
And on the fly transformation sounds about right. Better to correct any wrong thing about that no the profile if so.
- 3,289
- 2,656
why is everyone so damned focused on the mercer running from bullets feat when we have early game heller(who is comparable to early game mercer) being able to recache m1 shells with his shields its a supersonic+ level reaction
- 2,618
- 165
Tbh I just keep up with whatever's latest
Got a scene of the feat itself?
Got a scene of the feat itself?
- 3,289
- 2,656
its not a cutseen its a gameplay mechanic that happens all through out the game
but here is when he gets it first although it was shown with use of rockets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebMdgxra59s
3:40
but here is when he gets it first although it was shown with use of rockets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebMdgxra59s
3:40
- 2,618
- 165
Ah err... that sounds more like Gameplay Mechanics. I'm not totally against it but we better rely on other feats. That's probably why no one else is picking that.
- 3,289
- 2,656
ok if we just go as say every god damned feat in the game is gameplay mechanics then lets just put mercer at 9B
- 22,043
- 18,127
Mercer's 9-A feats are all from cutscenes.
It's a gameplay mechanic, but it seems to be established as a thing in-game, so I agree with using it. Devastators and Musclemass are never shown in a pre-rendered cutscene during the first Prototype, yet Mercer certainly still has them.
It's a gameplay mechanic, but it seems to be established as a thing in-game, so I agree with using it. Devastators and Musclemass are never shown in a pre-rendered cutscene during the first Prototype, yet Mercer certainly still has them.
- 2,321
- 1,355
This is a canonical... anti-feat. So end-game Heller (in the mission just before he fights Mercer) is unable to damage a large bunker door with his hammerfist, so he brings a pack of juggernauts to slowly chip a hole in it.
https://youtu.be/vuLLryKOqFU?t=157
The bunker door should be calcable, right?
https://youtu.be/vuLLryKOqFU?t=157
The bunker door should be calcable, right?
- 15,636
- 5,391
- Thread starter
- #342
Arguing for higher than 8-C when an explicitly low-end 8-C attack reduced Alex to mush is pretty meh. The fact that it's a major point in the story as opposed to calcing gameplay elements also puts more value on it as a cap for Alex's durability at that point.
I've talked about the issues with using that calc; it not only needs to be redone for issues I pointed out in comments, but again, Tier 7 is several orders of magnitude over what's consistent for Alex and Heller at that point - even if we use multipliers and say Heller got two times as strong by absorbing Alex since they were equals (something we wouldn't do), it would still be off by orders of madnitude. It's an outlier; the fact that it's Heller at his strongest doesn't mean it cannot be an outlier.
I've already discussed that multipliers based on how many people he's absorbed is very shoddy - I'm not very sure about weight as there's a lot of stuff that doesn't happen that would logcially happen if Alex was just straight-up 88 tons.
I feel like this thread is getting cluttered with side-stuff when it's already been accepted and is in the process of application. I'm going to politely request that other matters be taken to a seperate thread so it's more manageable for me to discuss them. I'm very short on time next week so getting a thread up this weekend or next weekend, but not inbetween, would be very helpful.
I've talked about the issues with using that calc; it not only needs to be redone for issues I pointed out in comments, but again, Tier 7 is several orders of magnitude over what's consistent for Alex and Heller at that point - even if we use multipliers and say Heller got two times as strong by absorbing Alex since they were equals (something we wouldn't do), it would still be off by orders of madnitude. It's an outlier; the fact that it's Heller at his strongest doesn't mean it cannot be an outlier.
I've already discussed that multipliers based on how many people he's absorbed is very shoddy - I'm not very sure about weight as there's a lot of stuff that doesn't happen that would logcially happen if Alex was just straight-up 88 tons.
I feel like this thread is getting cluttered with side-stuff when it's already been accepted and is in the process of application. I'm going to politely request that other matters be taken to a seperate thread so it's more manageable for me to discuss them. I'm very short on time next week so getting a thread up this weekend or next weekend, but not inbetween, would be very helpful.
- 22,043
- 18,127
@Dargoo I could open a new one about the speed, lifting strength and tiers for other characters.
However, assuming they pulverized a 3x2 metre steel cylinder with a thickness of 1 cm gets 0.01126288 Tons of TNT (Small Building level).
He implies it's made of something extremely strong and could damage a heavily reinforced blackwatch bunker. It's likely just some fictional material rather than an anti-feat.ShadowWhoWalks said:
However, assuming they pulverized a 3x2 metre steel cylinder with a thickness of 1 cm gets 0.01126288 Tons of TNT (Small Building level).
- 3,289
- 2,656
dargoo with all due respect we litreally do the same for dozens of other game verses and no one says anything about it with resident evil being a big one we have some charaters at high 8C when they get taken down with 9A attacks at bestDargoo Faust said:
or tyrants being 9A even though they are taken down with weaponry that is 9B
- 3,289
- 2,656
most people don't know how nuclear bombs work
hell most people who debate vs battles think that if you tank a nukes fire ball at its edges you are town level(even though if you where at its epicenter you wouldn't even recive town level force) and most game devs are not much better
hell most people who debate vs battles think that if you tank a nukes fire ball at its edges you are town level(even though if you where at its epicenter you wouldn't even recive town level force) and most game devs are not much better
- 2,618
- 165
Tbh that sounds more like an issue with Resident Evil and less here. The whole "It's not an outlier thing"
- 3,289
- 2,656
its not only resident evil
its more so every other game verse pretty much
its more so every other game verse pretty much
- 8,821
- 9,405
Bump.
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 18,836
- 7,458
I know this might not be the most impressive thing, but can we talk about the fact that when Heller reflects Missiles and stuff back at the shooter, it gets shot back at twice the speed?
- 2,392
- 318
Not yet. We still need to wait for the tier 8 calcs for certain Prototype characters, as well as Resistance to Biological Manipulation being re-added to Alex Mercer's profile.
- 2,618
- 165
Is his profile locked? I mean it sounds like we're all in agreement that it should be added.
Also idk about every other game. Those other games though have the bonus of having more feats and more franchises to take examples from usually. Thus kinda causing less outlier + more outrageous feats
Also idk about every other game. Those other games though have the bonus of having more feats and more franchises to take examples from usually. Thus kinda causing less outlier + more outrageous feats
- 15,636
- 5,391
- Thread starter
- #355
dargoo with all due respect we litreally do the same for dozens of other game verses and no one says anything about it with resident evil being a big one we have some charaters at high 8C when they get taken down with 9A attacks at best
This argument is kind of meaningless in a vacuum; you'd have to explain what exactly is "the same" for Prototype and that game series, and also be sure to establish that there isn't other factors not present in Prototype but present in whatever game series that makes those ratings more consistent and reliable. I'd greatly prefer if we discussed Prototype feats in the context of Prototype and Prototype alone; as far as I'm aware we have no fundamental rules on the site that make our ratings for other verses matter when considering this verse.
I kind of disagree with that point as well. It's more likely the game developers just don't know the nuclear bomb is only worth 0.44 Tons of TNT at that range.
I feel like you're saying this without contextualizing how we're applying the Tier 8 rating to begin with - we're saying Alex has some (uncalced) Tier 8 feats which we've extrapolated from feats from gameplay elements that the game devs likely cared even less about how many biggatons are outputted, as opposed to a vital story element where the game devs go out of their way to explain the potency of the bomb and showcase its destructive potential which contradicts this. It's our own calcs vs. our own calcs at the bottom line - nothing puts more value on these hypothetical feats than one of the most crucial moments in the entire story of the first game.
This argument is kind of meaningless in a vacuum; you'd have to explain what exactly is "the same" for Prototype and that game series, and also be sure to establish that there isn't other factors not present in Prototype but present in whatever game series that makes those ratings more consistent and reliable. I'd greatly prefer if we discussed Prototype feats in the context of Prototype and Prototype alone; as far as I'm aware we have no fundamental rules on the site that make our ratings for other verses matter when considering this verse.
I kind of disagree with that point as well. It's more likely the game developers just don't know the nuclear bomb is only worth 0.44 Tons of TNT at that range.
I feel like you're saying this without contextualizing how we're applying the Tier 8 rating to begin with - we're saying Alex has some (uncalced) Tier 8 feats which we've extrapolated from feats from gameplay elements that the game devs likely cared even less about how many biggatons are outputted, as opposed to a vital story element where the game devs go out of their way to explain the potency of the bomb and showcase its destructive potential which contradicts this. It's our own calcs vs. our own calcs at the bottom line - nothing puts more value on these hypothetical feats than one of the most crucial moments in the entire story of the first game.
- 22,043
- 18,127
They probably do care how strong it was because they state the yield in game. Also, the entire basis of the fight between the Supreme Hunter and Alex Mercer was that the former wanted to absorb the latter in order to withstand it. But that doesn't matter, the point was they likely didn't care how much weaker it'd be at the edge of the fireball.
I'm saying it doesn't automatically mean all Building level feats are outliers, whether he has them or not. Also, that calc is wrong regardless, because it's based on the City level value and, as you mentioned before, the speed of the helicopter, which you can't use because there's a jumpcut.
I'm saying it doesn't automatically mean all Building level feats are outliers, whether he has them or not. Also, that calc is wrong regardless, because it's based on the City level value and, as you mentioned before, the speed of the helicopter, which you can't use because there's a jumpcut.
- 15,636
- 5,391
- Thread starter
- #357
I'm saying it doesn't automatically mean all Building level feats are outliers
No one here is really arguing in absolutes, so I don't see why there's a need to say or argue that point. I'm saying it's very strong evidence against such a rating, and should be kept in mind when such calcs are done and considered.
calc is wrong regardless, because it's based on the City level value and, as you mentioned before, the speed of the helicopter, which you can't use because there's a jumpcut.
I don't believe there's much cutting around when the fireball expands and hits Alex, which as I've said multiple times can be used as a more accurate alternative. I can recalc the feat is necessary.
No one here is really arguing in absolutes, so I don't see why there's a need to say or argue that point. I'm saying it's very strong evidence against such a rating, and should be kept in mind when such calcs are done and considered.
calc is wrong regardless, because it's based on the City level value and, as you mentioned before, the speed of the helicopter, which you can't use because there's a jumpcut.
I don't believe there's much cutting around when the fireball expands and hits Alex, which as I've said multiple times can be used as a more accurate alternative. I can recalc the feat is necessary.
- 22,043
- 18,127
One calc is not "strong evidence" and all of Mercer's other 9-A feats are done very early into the game. If there's an 8-C feat, this is not enough to debunk it.
Assuming the 1.555553347 megaton-end is correct, then the feat is worth 29.1395112088 Tons of TNT, while the 75 kiloton-end gets 1.40494271371 Tons. So he's weaker than a Building level+ feat or a City Block level one.
Assuming the 1.555553347 megaton-end is correct, then the feat is worth 29.1395112088 Tons of TNT, while the 75 kiloton-end gets 1.40494271371 Tons. So he's weaker than a Building level+ feat or a City Block level one.
- 15,636
- 5,391
- Thread starter
- #359
One calc is not "strong evidence" and all of Mercer's other 9-A feats are done very early into the game. If there's an 8-C feat, this is not enough to debunk it.
No offense, but I feel like you've changed your point from "this does not disregard all 8-C feats" to "this isn't strong evidence against 8-C" here, which is fine but is kind of a different discussion altogether.
Assuming the 1.555553347 megaton-end is correct, then the feat is worth 29.1395112088 Tons of TNT, while the 75 kiloton-end gets 1.40494271371 Tons.
I'm unsure why you're bringing up calc values from a calc you have already conceded is deeply flawed and should be recalculated as an example of why this feat isn't counter-evidence to further 8-C calcs. If anything, what I've established needs to be redone (I've done speedy calcs with the speed of the fireball which makes the distance decently longer) it'll be below the Building + line at least.
You also need to consider the extent of the damage - reducing someone to mush is as One-Shot-y as a feat can get before stuff like heat and state-changing gets involved. Considering the low end of 8-C is a measly 2-3x less than the lower-end yield of this calc I can't imagine any 8-C feat that would make sense unless we call this story element bunk, which should take far more than 1 or 2 potential 8-C calcs.
No offense, but I feel like you've changed your point from "this does not disregard all 8-C feats" to "this isn't strong evidence against 8-C" here, which is fine but is kind of a different discussion altogether.
Assuming the 1.555553347 megaton-end is correct, then the feat is worth 29.1395112088 Tons of TNT, while the 75 kiloton-end gets 1.40494271371 Tons.
I'm unsure why you're bringing up calc values from a calc you have already conceded is deeply flawed and should be recalculated as an example of why this feat isn't counter-evidence to further 8-C calcs. If anything, what I've established needs to be redone (I've done speedy calcs with the speed of the fireball which makes the distance decently longer) it'll be below the Building + line at least.
You also need to consider the extent of the damage - reducing someone to mush is as One-Shot-y as a feat can get before stuff like heat and state-changing gets involved. Considering the low end of 8-C is a measly 2-3x less than the lower-end yield of this calc I can't imagine any 8-C feat that would make sense unless we call this story element bunk, which should take far more than 1 or 2 potential 8-C calcs.
- 3,289
- 2,656
hey about lifting strength
what class would ripping a person in two halfs right down the middle be?
what class would ripping a person in two halfs right down the middle be?
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
